Are you a union member?

[Red Rebel]

Simple question, although it might be in the wrong forum, are you a union member/are yout affiliated with a union?

[chimx]

Yes, I am a member of the united union of roofers, waterproofers, and allied workers.

[rebelworker]

UA Local 144
United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of the United States and Canada...

...No wonder we just call it "the International" here in Quebec.

Also considering becoming a Dual carder with the IWW again.

[sixdollarchampagne]

I tried, I really did, try to join the IWW in Providence, USA, but they never called back. So maybe they aren't taking membership applications right now, I have no idea.

But I really wanted to join.

With socialist greetings (maybe that's the problem -- I am not an anarchist)
--SDC

[piet11111]

no not yet because A) i do not have a paid job at a social work place yet until then working as a volunteer to cut the waiting period down and B) because the dutch unions are massive sell-outs

[hekmatista]

Which is OK since all contracts I am aware of include the "no strike through duration" clause. As a Wobbly I practice solidarity unionism regardless of legal status; I do so now as a 'just plain" Wobbly, I did the same as a "dual carder" member of SEIU and CWA. The trotskyist comrade(unless he is a cop or exploiter of labor) is just as entitled to IWW membership as any other worker. Try contacting GHQ rather than The R.I. branch (www.iww.org (http://www.iww.org)) to join online. Then recontact your local branch after you have your red card. IWW is not specifically anarchist; it is syndicalist.

[Vendetta]

No, but if I ever get a permanent-type job I should.

[Trystan]

Not at the moment, no. But I'm trying to rejoin the IWW. I might join another union and be a "dual carder". Don't know. Depends on the choices I make within the next year; whether I go into full-time employment or not.

[MarxSchmarx]

I tried, I really did, try to join the IWW in Providence, USA, but they never called back. So maybe they aren't taking membership applications right now, I have no idea.

But I really wanted to join.

With socialist greetings (maybe that's the problem -- I am not an anarchist)
--SDC

They will be more than happy to take your money via paypal and count you among their ranks:

http://www.iww.org/join/joinnow.shtml
http://www.revleft.com/vb/joining-iww-t78644/index.html

[Red Rebel]

I am actually a member of Working America, which is a union for workers (students, unemployed, and workers who work in a non union workplace) in the United States that is affiliated with the AFL-CIO.

I've thought about becoming a Wobbly; however, they act more like a Party now than an actual labour union. I support them, I just don't see them helping me in a non union workplace.

[Lynx]

If we look globally, what % of workers are in a union?

[Forward Union]

Not sure globally. In the uk it's 28% and falling

[Red October]

I'm a member of the IWW.

[Oneironaut]

Yeah- Laborers Local 1140 in Omaha Nebraska

[chimx]

Does anybody mind if restart the poll with some different options:

I am a union member and my workplace is unionized
I am a union member in a non-union workplace
I am not a union member

[Djehuti]

Yes, LO. Industrial / Metal workers union.

[Saorsa]

Those questions would be better Chimx. I'm a member of the National Distribution Union in a unionized supermarket.

[Sam_b]

I am a member of the GMB in a unionised Student Union.

[disobey]

Currently I am not unionised at the moment having left the IWW (which technically isn't a union in the traditional sense that I understand, and frankly lacks the clout - although I am sold on the "one big union" idea).

I tried to join the PCS recently but apparently I'm far too left wing and radical for them. Well, it was either that or I was in the wrong industry sector.

Yep, that was it actually.

[F9]

No!But basically i am not even a worker, so it would be a little weird be one!:lol:

Fuserg9:star:

[bretty]

No. The factory I work in has no union, and I've heard my manager suggest that if we were to unionize it'd probably be the end of the factory existing in the Canadian manufacturing sector.

[chimx]

Though I don't know about Canada, but in the US it is illegal to threaten to close a factory if the employees discuss unionization.

[Junius]

No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

in the US it is illegal to threaten to close a factory if the employees discuss unionization.

It is still a regular occurrence.

[chimx]

It is still a regular occurrence.

Yes, unfortunately that's true. But the first step to stopping it is letting people know the laws and what their legal options are.

[Honggweilo]

Yes, Member of the FNV (Federal Dutch Trade-Union), and a member of its member union FNV KIEM (Grafimedia and Printingpressers) and FNV JONG (Youth Section)

[LOLseph Stalin]

I can't say i'm a union member as i'm currently unemployed and a high school student. I will definitely want to be involved in a union once I get set into a career. I'm thinking a history teacher. I'm pretty sure teachers have unions. I hope so...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yes, teachers have unions.

[Q]

Yes; I'm in FNV KIEM, a union for people working in the media (I have a paperround :P )

Edit:
Deconditioned Reflex: are you going to the policy conference aswell on the 13th in Utrecht? Maybe we can meet :)

[Louis Pio]

Yes of course I am.
I am member of the danish nurses union.

[bolchevique]

I'm member of Teacher CCOO union and member of the left tendency in the union

[JimmyJazz]

Does anybody mind if restart the poll with some different options:

I am a union member and my workplace is unionized
I am a union member in a non-union workplace
I am not a union member

That would be a good idea, and also include "I don't work".

I'm not in a union, but my workplace isn't unionized either.

[Chicano Shamrock]

No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss.
I prefer more money in my hands(than I would have had pre-union), better working conditions and a united working class to support me when the boss tries to cheat me on the job.

Yes I am a member of the ILWU (International Longshoreman and Warehouse Union). Live better, work union. I have been thinking about going IWW also but I wonder what the point is besides barely keeping the IWW alive?

[Oneironaut]

To answer Chimx's new question:

I am a union member in a unionized general construction contractor.

[genstrike]

I am a dual-carder, IWW and Manitoba Government Employees Union* (well, I am a seasonal worker and it is the off-season right now, but I keep getting mail from them so I can only assume that my membership is still valid). Proud to be public!

Also, it doesn't really count as a labour union, but I am also an active member of the University of Manitoba Students Union, Local 103, Canadian Federation of Students. And I am also a member of a professional association...

*one thing I find interesting is that my premier, who I pretty much hate, used to be President of the MGEU.

[Junius]

I prefer more money in my hands(than I would have had pre-union),

This depends. Personally, the last two jobs I have had, both contracts were union contracts and weren't much higher than minimum wage. Do union workers typically have higher wages? Probably, but its got more to do that they are typically more militant than other workers; its not the union, its the workers.

Workers struggle inside and outside unions.


and a united working class to support me when the boss tries to cheat me on the job.

This is very dubious. I could point to dozens of times when union bosses have met with the other bosses and 'cheated' the workers.


Live better, work union. I have been thinking about going IWW also but I wonder what the point is besides barely keeping the IWW alive?

I read on another forum that a shop-keeper is apparently to lead the IWW, pending a vote.

[Bilan]

updated the poll perrequest to make it more accurate to peoples situations.

[wasteman]

No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss.

:huh:

Interesting view point

[Hit The North]

I'm a member of the University and College Union (UCU) and my workplace is unionised.


No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss.


:huh:

Interesting view point

Yes, and one espoused by every scab in the history of the labour movement.

Standing outside the union of your fellow workers. What an admirable example for a communist to set. :rolleyes:

[Junius]

I'm a member of the University and College Union (UCU) and my workplace is unionised.





Yes, and one espoused by every scab in the history of the labour movement.

Standing outside the union of your fellow workers. What an admirable example for a communist to set. :rolleyes:

How does being opposed to unions make you a scab or a scab-supporter? It's the unions who most often call off strikes. It's the unions whom most often cave in to the demands of the capitalists and betray their members. Not the workers. I always support strike action. I 'stand outside the union' because that's where all the other workers are. Even so, I don't call for workers to just leave unions en mass, but for them to recognize that the unions are invariably going to hold them back. I'm happy to explain my views in the context of constructive debate, not be called a scab by the likes of an SWP supporter - which is doubly ironic considering their history with unions -i.e. SWP union bosses calling cops to arrest striking workers. :rolleyes: yourself.

[Devrim]

I'm a member of the University and College Union (UCU) and my workplace is unionised.

I think that what you mean is that some people are members. I can't imagine the whole place being unionised.


Yes, and one espoused by every scab in the history of the labour movement.

Standing outside the union of your fellow workers. What an admirable example for a communist to set. :rolleyes:

I am not a member of a union at the moment. I don't see the point.

In the past I have been a member of unions* ranging from 'revolutionary' ones to social democratic ones.

I have been on strike over a dozen times as union member and non-member ranging from three and a half weeks with 180,000 workers to three and a half hours with 4 workers.

I have never been involved in an official strike**, nor have I ever received any strike pay.

I have never been lead out on strike by a union, but I have been sent back by them. Also I have had to pay union dues for times when I was on strike being attacked by union leaders.

I think that unions can defend individual workers, and might even join one if I thought it could be useful, but only in the same way that I have house insurance.

I don't think they can defend class interests.

Devrim

*I belonged to UCW, UCATT, and NUPE when I lived in the UK.
**There was once a one day official strike at a place that I worked, but I was on holiday at the time.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

As the above post perfectly demonstrates, the "left communists" are unable (or unwilling) to separate the unions - which are at base workers organizations' formed to defend their interests - with union bureaucrats.

[Leo]

Can you further elaborate the difference according to you?

[Hit The North]

How does being opposed to unions make you a scab or a scab-supporter? How does being opposed to unions make you any different? You purer-than-thou ultra-lefts make me laugh. You bang on about standing shoulder to shoulder with the workers then adopt positions which are, at the least, symmetrical with every union-busting capitalist in history.


Even so, I don't call for workers to just leave unions en mass, but for them to recognize that the unions are invariably going to hold them back.
You should inform your boss about this opinion of yours. She'd probably give you free access to the photocopier so you can spread your "communist" propaganda. :lol:

[black magick hustla]

How does being opposed to unions make you any different? You purer-than-thou ultra-lefts make me laugh. You bang on about standing shoulder to shoulder with the workers then adopt positions which are, at the least, symmetrical with every union-busting capitalist in history.

Well she does not in practice support an organization known for calling the cops on striking workers, contrary to so some chumps who think they are the big deal because they are "in unions".......:rolleyes:

[Hit The North]

The SWP (UK) has never called the cops against striking workers. You're a liar.

[black magick hustla]

The SWP (UK) has never called the cops against striking workers. You're a liar.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87064

I am such a liar

[Devrim]

The SWP (UK) has never called the cops against striking workers. You're a liar.

Talking about the case Marmot is quoting, Bob is correct. It is not the SWP(UK). It was SWP (Ireland). They were not striking. They had been sacked and were on hunger strike.

Devrim

[black magick hustla]

:shrugs:, both are sections of the International Socialist Tendency, which I understand, is a centralized organization. I see no reason why my example is not relevant.

[black magick hustla]

actually nvm, it is not a cenrtalized organization. I apologize for the misinformation.

[4514]

im in the transport workers union in western australia. living life in the hot sun enjoying the mining boom.
workers unite.

[Louis Pio]

I can't imagine the whole place being unionised.


In Denmark it is often the case that the whole place is unionised, if your not a member of the union your workmates will kindly ask you to get unionised or find another job, this is mostly the case in more "traditional" trades such as various crafts or on factories. Not being unionised is seen as leeching on the fight for better wage/conditions etc.

[Devrim]

In Denmark it is often the case that the whole place is unionised, if your not a member of the union your workmates will kindly ask you to get unionised or find another job, this is mostly the case in more "traditional" trades such as various crafts or on factories. Not being unionised is seen as leeching on the fight for better wage/conditions etc.

Teis, I know that in many workplaces the whole place is unionised. I have worked in closed shops. My comment relates to his job. He is a member of a teaching union, a job which generally doesn't have that level of unionisation.

Devrim

[Louis Pio]

Ok, missed that.
The same unfortunately applies for my job, a while back all nurses would be unionised. Now the level of unionisation has dropped a bit, partly cause of the growing privatisation. However the level of of people in unions are still quite high, also in the health care sector as a whole

[PostAnarchy]

No sadly i am not.

[PostAnarchy]

I am disappointed in the way so many people here have attacked unions which have historically protected the rights of many working people. This doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for revolution but at the same time always be conscious of the intermediate goals that can be made on behalf of working people until then. Sure there is a strong sense of reformism and massive corruption within the bourgeois unions. But the IWW and other red unions are a great example of what can be done.

[Hit The North]

Devrim is correct when he points to the low density of membership in my union UCU - we must have a high proportion of left communists among the teaching staff! However my campus contains other unions such as UNISON, GMB, and UNITE which have higher membership density.

Assuming that weak unions haemorrhaging members is a positive and welcome outcome for the left communists, they'll be delighted to hear that Nottinghman Trent University has recently withdrawn recognition from my union the UCU.

Left Communists 1 Workers 0 :(

[PostAnarchy]

Nice!!

[Devrim]

Devrim is correct when he points to the low density of membership in my union UCU - we must have a high proportion of left communists among the teaching staff! However my campus contains other unions such as UNISON, GMB, and UNITE which have higher membership density.

Assuming that weak unions haemorrhaging members is a positive and welcome outcome for the left communists, they'll be delighted to hear that Nottinghman Trent University has recently withdrawn recognition from my union the UCU.

Left Communists 1 Workers 0 :(

But we never said that, Bob, so really why don't you stop trying to distort what people are saying?

Devrim

[Hit The North]

But we never said that, Bob, so really why don't you stop trying to distort what people are saying?

Devrim Maybe not you, Devrim, but your comrade, Leo wrote in the CC:


So do I and several other people in the CC, we don't just oppose them, we call for their destruction, we see them as a part of the state.


So maybe it's less my distortion and more the left communist confusion over what they really want?

[Devrim]

So do I and several other people in the CC, we don't just oppose them, we call for their destruction, we see them as a part of the state.

So maybe it's less my distortion and more the left communist confusion over what they really want?

Yes, we call for their destruction in revolutionary periods. So did Rosa Luxemburg. Do you want to call her a scab as well, as you have been throwing the word around recently?

We believe that the unions are integrated into the state.

We also say that the unions can't defend the working class as a class, and that communists can't work through them.

However, I don't think that any left communist has said on here that they see positive signs in low union membership levels. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Devrim

[PostAnarchy]

Bob- Thank you for the clarification! :)

[Hit The North]

Yes, we call for their destruction in revolutionary periods.

So not very often then.


So did Rosa Luxemburg. Well, I'm glad you have your moment in history to justify your dogma.


Do you want to call her a scab as well, as you have been throwing the word around recently? I haven't called anyone a scab. If you know different, quote me.


We believe that the unions are integrated into the state.
You mean you think all capitalist states are corporatist states or are you being less specific than that?


We also say that the unions can't defend the working class as a class, and that communists can't work through them. Fine. But unions can defend the workers they represent and there are plenty of examples of communists working through them - not to advance revolution, I'll admit, but at least to defend workers against the ambition of capitalists. Although it has to be admitted that this is done without the support of left communists who refuse to join and actively campaign within trade unions.


However, I don't think that any left communist has said on here that they see positive signs in low union membership levels. Please correct me if I am wrong. No, but when left communists claim that workers would be better off without unions as in:


Originally posted by LeftCommunist
I don't call for workers to just leave unions en mass, but for them to recognize that the unions are invariably going to hold them back. [i.e. to leave en mass whilst recognising that unions will hold them back - my note]
Then it doesn't take a massive leap in logic to infer that a weakening of the trade union movement is a positive condition as far as your comrades in the ICC are concerned.

[Hit The North]

Bob- Thank you for the clarification! :) Yes, it takes some doing, but we can squeeze it out of them in the end :). Devrim's submission is at least a step above "No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss." A position which is tantamount to the situation Teis describes:


Originally posted by Teis
Not being unionised is seen as leeching on the fight for better wage/conditions etc.


I wonder how many of these left communist abstainers refuse to take the improvement in wages and conditions won by the unions they spurn?

[Poison]

Unemployed till I get my degree in Journalism, then will research the journalists union and think about it. Generally however I'm pro-union.

[Devrim]

I haven't called anyone a scab. If you know different, quote me.

No, but you implied it:


Interesting view point
Yes, and one espoused by every scab in the history of the labour movement.


I wonder how many of these left communist abstainers refuse to take the improvement in wages and conditions won by the unions they spurn?

Actually, I don't recall much in the way of improvements in 'wages and conditions' unless you think falling further inflation is an improvement. However, strikes aren't made by unions, but by workers.

Actually, the vast majority of left communists that I have met have been people who came to that position through there experience in workplace disputes. Most of them were previously 'shop stewards' before they realised that the union wasn't capable of defending workers interests. Most of them have been deeply involved in struggles at their work.

But then you knew this argument was a straw man anyway.



We also say that the unions can't defend the working class as a class, and that communists can't work through them. Fine. But unions can defend the workers they represent and there are plenty of examples of communists working through them - not to advance revolution, I'll admit, but at least to defend workers against the ambition of capitalists. Although it has to be admitted that this is done without the support of left communists who refuse to join and actively campaign within trade unions.

Maybe I didn't explain that well. I don't believe that unions can defend workers collectively. I believe that they can defend workers on an individual basis (things like disciplinary procedures etc.) I don't refuse to join a union, and I probably would join one if there was one at my work. There isn't

Just on a bit of information about my job. I work for a subcontractor on a casual basis and most of my work is at a big telecommunications company. There are four people employed by my company in this city, two of whom work in other places and only do a couple of hours a week. The other guy is somebody I have known for years and whom I actually organised a strike with about three years ago. If we wanted a strike we could have one without being union members.

But basically Bob, your whole argument is that left communists don't take part in struggles in their workplaces, and it is blatantly untrue.

Devrim

[Liberte ou la Mort]

I belong to a teacher's union and a student union. I am active in both.

Greed can only be defeated by education.

[Junius]

I wonder how many of these left communist abstainers refuse to take the improvement in wages and conditions won by the unions they spurn?

Speaking of wages, one boss of a union I belonged to earned ten times the amount I do and lived in a sea-side mansion worth a few million too. Definitely got their eyes on the worker's plight.

[Hit The North]

No one is claiming that unions are perfect workers organisations. Of course they're riddled with bourgeois and reformist prejudice and there is a often a lack of connect between the union at grassroot or shop floor level and at the higher end of the bureaucratic structure. In fact recognising the role of bureaurcratic betrayal in the history of disputes is central to the Trotskyist analysis of trade unionism. Nevertheless recognising this does not necessarily lead to a policy of abandoning the unions or giving up on those workers who are members. On the contrary, in the real world there is a positive association between those workers who are commited to union membership and activism and their level of class consciousness. It may be the case that the theoretical analysis of left communism leads to a rejection of unions but for most workers unions are emblematic of worker solidarity and mutual support.

Communists should not stand on the sidelines they should engage and work to strengthen shop floor organisation as the best form of resistance against bureaucratic distortion and sell-out.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Speaking of wages, one boss of a union I belonged to earned ten times the amount I do and lived in a sea-side mansion worth a few million too. Definitely got their eyes on the worker's plight.
Many people at my work make more than the union bosses. Are you sure the problem wasn't that you were in a shitty union and not that unions are bad? The union I am in may not be structured in an anarchistic way but we make good money and we have some of the best benefits in the country so it's all good.

[genstrike]

Speaking of wages, one boss of a union I belonged to earned ten times the amount I do and lived in a sea-side mansion worth a few million too. Definitely got their eyes on the worker's plight.

Yeah, not to rush to defend the labour bureaucracy (because they generally suck), but it sounds like just a particularly shitty union. I can think of one union that "represents" low wage workers and their president makes at least 6 figures, and another that on the other hand restricts the presidents salary to that of the highest paid member or less (I think it is in their constitution).

[The Intransigent Faction]

Unemployed till I get my degree in Journalism, then will research the journalists union and think about it. Generally however I'm pro-union.

Pretty much the same in my case, although I'll just be graduating from high school as of June 2009, so if i get involved in a union that will be a while from now. I did have a history teacher whom I still see from time to time who has joined a teachers' union this year, though, and I certainly support him.

[apathy maybe]

I am not, and have never been, a member of a "workers" union (I have been a member of a "student" union).

I am not opposed to unions, and see that they can have a positive affect on workers lives. However, I do see that they can have negative affects on workers as well.

I guess I should clarify, I'm talking about formal unions, as opposed to ad hoc ones.

It is invariably the union bosses that order the workers back to work after a strike, or order them not to strike, or force a bad pay deal upon them. It isn't the workers themselves.

Just thinking about that, even the term "union boss" draws to mind the connection between your "boss" at work and the "boss" in the union. They both have the same sorts of interests in many respects. They want the workers working, they want the workers to obey the bosses (different bosses in each case, but obey none the less), and so on.

Anyway, I do not object in principle to joining a union, and have in the past said that I would always join the union (I don't recall doing so on RevLeft, but I've said it in RealLife).

But, I would always support "ad hoc", worker run, worker controlled unions far more than a bureaucratic union run by a bunch of thugs. Workers are more than capable of organising and running a strike without a formal union, they don't need the union, with regard to many many things, any more than they need the other bosses in their lives.

[Hiero]

It is invariably the union bosses that order the workers back to work after a strike, or order them not to strike, or force a bad pay deal upon them.

One there is no such things as union bosses. This language comes straight from anti-union right wing propoganda. This langauge was used constantly during Howard's political agenda of destroying the unions. Unions elect officals to do the formal workings of the union.

Secondly, unions also call the strikes and organise the strikes.

Thirdly, the majority of strikes are bound to fail or never reach their goals. If they did or could then there would be no point to end capitalism.

You have a very idealistic view of the point of unions and what they do.Unions can be right wing or left wing, they are however not revolutionary. I don't know what your thinking, that workers can strike for ever untill they have control of the means of production?

Your rhetoric is very contradictory, you talk from a ultra left position with right wing language.

[black magick hustla]

probably the right wing recuperated the left wing use of "union boss". we have been complaining about union bosses since atleast 70-80 years ago·

[Oneironaut]

I consider myself to be a left communist, yet I still am in a trade union (before I became a left commie). The reason for my decision in joining a union was that I receive a livable wage while before I was barely scraping by. Other left communists may say that my participation in a trade union means I can't be a left communist, but my union wage is the only way I have been able to pay for school. I do not see unions playing any active role in the workers' revolution. When a workers' revolution does come, I will drop my union status and hopefully be able to get others in my union to do exactly the same. But until that time, I see myself participating in trade unions.

[Junius]

Other left communists may say that my participation in a trade union means I can't be a left communist.

I don't think any of this would say this. At the very least, Devrim and myself have been members of trade unions and we still consider ourselves Left Communists. On the other hand, I don't think it really possible to hold a position of authority in the trade union, since essentially you'll have to make a choice between the union or the workers.


I do not see unions playing any active role in the workers' revolution. When a workers' revolution does come, I will drop my union status and hopefully be able to get others in my union to do exactly the same.

The point isn't that unions will become redundant when a revolution comes, the point is that they are actively holding workers back now.

[Bilan]

^^
I think that's a bit to black and white.

[Junius]

Well if you're a shop steward there may well arise a situation where you have a conflict of interest between your duty to the union, and your duty as a communist to workers. Wouldn't you agree? This isn't to say stewards are evil-no-questions-asked; more often than not, they are some of the most militant workers - at least in my experiences they have even opposed unions on occasions, and lost their jobs in the process. But certainly I don't think a LC should be a steward and I don't think we really need to be to argue our points to workers.

[Oneironaut]

I don't think any of this would say this. At the very least, Devrim and myself have been members of trade unions and we still consider ourselves Left Communists. On the other hand, I don't think it really possible to hold a position of authority in the trade union, since essentially you'll have to make a choice between the union or the workers.
You are right. Thankfully, since I've been a member (about a year), I haven't had to compromise between workers and the union. This is probably because I don't hold any position of authority in the union, nor am I seeking it.


The point isn't that unions will become redundant when a revolution comes, the point is that they are actively holding workers back now.
I also agree with this. However, given the conditions of the working class in my town, the union is not necessarily the first thing I speak out against.

[Pogue]

I don't see why a communist would be opposed to unions. Opposed to union buerocracy, yes, and sell out union leaders, sure, but opposed to the direct organisation of the working class as a collective force? Insane.

[wes_865]

UCW-CWA member.

[red-carnations]

No; I prefer my money in my hands versus the pockets of a union boss.

I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Is this a joke? Please explain?! Yes, there are a problems with a very few unions, but to condemn unions outright is just absurd especially on a forum such as this..

[JimmyJazz]

I don't see why a communist would be opposed to unions. Opposed to union buerocracy, yes, and sell out union leaders, sure, but opposed to the direct organisation of the working class as a collective force? Insane.

Well, trade unions. We need class-wide unions, which organize workers instead of workplaces.

Speaking of which, I joined the IWW-Department 610 today at a meeting of my local branch.


I have been thinking about going IWW also but I wonder what the point is besides barely keeping the IWW alive?

They can and do help individual members with specific grievances, like pregnant or injured workers having their hours forcibly cut. The Local at least (not sure about the International) can help out with legal stuff if it has the funds. (I think very few Locals have the funds).

And you can always help them out of course. If they have enough people from a single workplace/company, they'll launch a campaign. Or you can get one launched around your workplace if you manage to recruit enough (I would guess 5 or more) of your co-workers to the IWW.

I've only been to one meeting, but this is the stuff I've already heard about my local branch doing for its members.

And you can always help spread the word about the IWW by tabling at bookfairs, events, etc., or just representing with a flag or a t-shirt at a protest...leads to more members, leads to more money for the Local, leads to more that the Local can do to help you and the other members, and so on.

[Revy]

I am not currently employed. I would prefer to work in a job that has a union and would be willing to pay dues. So I am pro-union. But there are many companies that are viciously anti-union and would never allow such a thing to happen. I do not see unions as the central force in the socialist struggle nor do I see them as somehow inherently opposed to it.

[bellyscratch]

I'm a student at a university that is not afilliated to the NUS. Once i graduate I plan on joining BECTU

[zider]

No, as I'm not employed at the moment. On leaving school I worked as a Lab tech in a non-unionised workplace, though I joined the T&G on principle, and more importantly to piss the managers off:D. Became a student nurse and joined COHSE. By the time I qualified they had merged with NUPE and NALGO to become UNISON, I remained with them for the five years I worked as a nurse.
I was also in the NUS when I went to university a few years ago.

[Wild_Fire]

I don't belong to a Union, and I don't think it was mentioned when I signed my contract two years ago!

Our government has recently changed from a weakening Labour Government (left-well fake left but better than nothing) to a building National (right, rich elites) Government:(

National are to make an amendment to our Union laws, where a Workplace can effectively block a union from joining up new workers to their representative Union.

A workplace once this law is passed, only has to provide Reasonable access to a Union to recruit members. This means they do not have to allow access for the union to approach workers on site, during work hours or even inform them that there is a union to join.

So, many Unions effectively wont pursue new employees, because the Workplace can take the issue to court and only have to argue that they have provided reasonable access (while chewing through any economic resources the Unions might hold).

[DaughterJones]

Im a union member but at the moment my union has been screwing its members.The board members go against almost everything we say but because of the economic situation people are too scared to strike because they know there is a multitude of people willing to take thier jobs. Its really hard for workers to get what they want in times like these. When the white collar kids go back to working in daddy's office and they find themselves w/a shortage of workers theyll be back to seeing things our way though.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Im a union member but at the moment my union has been screwing its members.The board members go against almost everything we say but because of the economic situation people are too scared to strike because they know there is a multitude of people willing to take thier jobs. Its really hard for workers to get what they want in times like these. When the white collar kids go back to working in daddy's office and they find themselves w/a shortage of workers theyll be back to seeing things our way though.

Strike against the union officials? That sounds bad. Can't you guys repeal the officials from their post?

[Devrim]

CS, I have been on strike over a dozen times in my life, non of them ever organised by a union, and the vast majority of them (i.e. the ones at places that were unionised) against the decision of the union.

I remember at one place a worked, we got so tired of the local distict council of the union screwing us over that we told them that if they came into our office we would walk out.

Devrim

[Eros]

I'm in the process of joining the Independent Workers Union (IWU).

It's a small but principled and militant union that is doing more for immigrant workers than the much larger unions. The leaderships of the main unions are very conservative here and tied to the so-called 'social-partnership' with the employers' federation IBEC.

[Sean]

I'm currently unemployed, but in my last job I was in the Union. I wasn't approached by the rep and had to do all the running around myself. Even though I didn't consider them particularly strong, and my particular office only had a handful of members, they've gotten me out of shitty situations before. I don't feel secure at all if I'm in a job without a union backing me, but unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to start doing temp work from agencies etc. Noone has love for the temps. :( I find the poll results quite concerning on a far left board like this. No matter what reservations I'd have about a union, I'd always recommend joining it, you can at least change the direction of unions, you can do nothing if you're isolated. That's something to especially keep in mind in the current economic climate.

[Killfacer]

I work in asda, nobody is in a union.

[Sean]

I work in asda, nobody is in a union.
I'd be loathe to go near them, too much Walmart union smashing, they started fucking with the unions as soon has they took over. Bad luck mate, I doubt their antiunion tactics are as harsh as they are in the states yet, but give it a few years... I'd join the GMB anyways if I were in your shoes.
EDIT:They have "colleague circles" to help you don't they? :P

[Pogue]

Yeh if you're at ASDA join GMB.

[Killfacer]

But you have to pay to be in a union and im poor enough already.

[Sean]

But you have to pay to be in a union and im poor enough already.
Yeah thats a chicken and egg thing, join a Union and fight to get a better wage for workers. Still, I think a union FAQ is beyond the scope of this thread. Unions do not cost that much and you never mentioned that the first time. If the money issue was solved I'm sure you'd have another reason not to!:)

[Jorge Miguel]

Unite.

[ChocolateToothpaste]

I'm a student, but I'd have to move away from where I live to be in a union when I do join the workforce. There are never strikes here, and everyone seems to have a negative image of the union. They'd rather have the "right to work."

[Killfacer]

Yeah thats a chicken and egg thing, join a Union and fight to get a better wage for workers. Still, I think a union FAQ is beyond the scope of this thread. Unions do not cost that much and you never mentioned that the first time. If the money issue was solved I'm sure you'd have another reason not to!:)

Theres also the fact that i can't see it bringing any real benefits for me. No one at my work place is politicised at all, only i am. Would have very little effect if the only person on strike in the whole of asda was me.

[S. Zetor]

I'm in the Finnish Metal Workers Union and my work place is unionised (like about 90% of all MWU work places), and I'm also on the board of my local branch.

Not so many places have shop stewards, though. When I was attending a shop steward course at the MWU's school last autumn, the teacher told us that while there's about 10.000 work places in the technology industries where MWU negotiates the collective agreements, there's only about 1.800 shop stewards.

In effect it means people in 80% of MWU work places don't have a living connection to the union as they have not elected a representative (shop steward), even though they're union members.

In Finland, the overall organisational rate is over 70%, so people join the union more or less because that's the way here, and not so much for some fierce political reasons. Personally I don't find that so bad as one might think at first glance, because I believe that people won't fight for ideas anyway, but for guarantees for their own safety and security (whether they call that socialism or something else is beside the point here).

The social-democrat controlled union machinery, though it is totally committed to the bourgeois welfare state and class collaboration, prevents the worst crap just by being there.

[Madvillainy]

I'm not a member of a trade union and I would agree with the left communist position on trade unions.

I was a member of unison for a short time in my old job and they did help me out with a disciplinary hearing.:) But besides helping workers with individual cases, I don't see what good unions are.

[Chicano Shamrock]

But you have to pay to be in a union and im poor enough already.
My union dues a month is about $100 which is what I make in less than 4 hours thanks to the workers in my union that came before me. Union dues really aren't a problem since good unions fight for better wages.

[lombas]

I am a member of the Algemeen Christelijk Vakverbond, but going to leave. Where I am going to end up when I start working, archives, there is no real union presence.

[Niemand]

While I'm not currently in a union, I'm trying like hell to unionise the Target store I presently work at.

[Azraelscross]

yes. as soon as 1 month in safeway is finished you are apart of the UFCW 1518. except if you are in the meat department or bakery i think. they have a separate union

[Pogue]

GMB & IWW in what is, as far as I am aware, an un-unionised workplace.

[Invincible Summer]

I'm a student and not in any union. However, the only unions I know of around where I live are pretty social-democratic and don't really appeal to me at all.

I'm thinking of joining the IWW once I get a 'real' job. I believe that many unions are dangerous, as the labour bureaucracy misleads the working people into thinking reformism works in the long run, but I still think they're important tools for the working class to organize themselves.

The IWW appeals to me with their "One big union" rhetoric. Heh.

I wonder what would've happened if I tried to unionize the Subway I worked at...

[Bazza]

I'm a member of the CWU (communication workers union).

[Louis Pio]

I'm a student and not in any union. However, the only unions I know of around where I live are pretty social-democratic and don't really appeal to me at all.


And how are the unions going to change if all revolutionaries just abandon the fight and start their own small union? Quite the vicious circle here.

[lombas]

How many members does do IWW have?

[Invincible Summer]

And how are the unions going to change if all revolutionaries just abandon the fight and start their own small union? Quite the vicious circle here.

Good point.

[Niemand]

How many members does do IWW have?
I think it's around 2,000 and it's pretty much a Starbucks union from what I've read about their strikes inside the U.S.

[bluestar]

I believe strongly in collective action. I do not believe in unions, or at least, the ones I have experienced who have been extensions of the government and have provided no resistance or worker support and indeed collude and collaborate.

[money for hunger]

i am a member of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union

[Axel1917]

I am a member of the SEIU.


My union dues a month is about $100 which is what I make in less than 4 hours thanks to the workers in my union that came before me. Union dues really aren't a problem since good unions fight for better wages.

Indeed. Mine are a bit under $50.00 per month, with full voting rights. This is a small price to pay considering that I am making far more than most janitors do (if school budget cuts don't mess things up, I should be making $20.00+ per hour in a couple of years from now.). Hell, after three years of working in a non-union janitor job, I was making $12.43 per hour. My current job started me at $14.00 per hour and I am currently at $17.69 per hour after not even being there for a year-and-a-half.

[piet11111]

i will be joining the FNV ABVAKABO after i get a paid position on february 1st.

[INDK]

No, as I am unemployed.

[Red Rebel]

Update on my union situation, I'm trying to organize my workplace with the Teamsters.

[communick]

I've been a union boilermaker for 8 years. My union has problems but is much safer and financially rewarding than working non-union construction.

I was in the IWW for a while too but they don't really do anything in Boston.

btw Boilermakers are the only trade with a drink named after them (shot of whiskey and a beer = boilermaker)

[Malakangga]

No,not yet

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Was in the IWW, now in the CNT.

[Nico]

I used to be in the Building and Allied Trade Union (BATU) a few year ago. I'm not in a union at the moment as I am unemployed.

[bretty]

I recently lost my job in a factory, we were not unionized and our managers knew very well that upper management would fire anyone looking to organize a union in the place. Manufacturing in Canada is in horrible shape right now.

[danny bohy]

i would be but anywhere that young people dont have unions. and if there was and you joined it... you'd be fired as soon as your twat of a boss found out.+ young people conditions are incredibly bad. some of my mates work for $6 an hour n shite like that.

[REVOLUTIONARY32]

Yeah active member of SIPTU Services,Industrial,Professional and Technical Union.

[brigadista]

i have been a union member since i started working. seen my membership become meaningless since the demise of the closed shop

[ellipsis]

Unfortunately not. I have never been employed in a job where being a union member was an option, at least not to my knowledge.

[proudhon10]

I am a student, if i had a paying job i would make it a priority to join a union!

[TheCagedLion]

I am a member of DJØF, a union for lawyers, economists, sociologists, and the like

[redarmyfaction38]

read through all the posts before submitting my reply to the original question.
yes, i am, but not an activist any more.
i'm in cause it gives me legal protection and a chance of fighting unfair dismissal etc.
every strike i've been in for the last ten years has been undermined or sold out by "union leaders".
i changed from unison after 20 years membership and activism to the gmb when i just got fed up with the constant attacks on socialists within unison, the gmb ain't much better, but i only give them my money.
i have a lot of sympathy for the comrade who won't join a union on the basis that all it does is pay some fat cat beurocrat to screw him over, he actually reflects the attitude of a lot of lay members of trade unions and that of alot of workers who might join a union if that wasn't the case.
you an argue the "rights or wrongs" as much as you like.
and no i don't have any answers either.

[pastradamus]

I am a former union representive of the Irish Independant Workers Union. My workplace is unionised because I unionised it.:thumbup1:

[Poison]

Honestly, not sure.

I'm a student journalist atm and looking to get into freelance or independent media journalism. So not sure if I could ever join a union.

Now, a journalist collective...how sweet would that be?

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

It'd be fucking suh-weet.

Anyway, I am.

[StalinFanboy]

I am. UFCW. Absolutely fucking horrible excuse for a union.

[Iuvo]

I am a worker and my workplace is unionized, although there isn't as much power as I wish my union would have.

[Il Medico]

I am a news paper carrier, we are not allowed to have unions. They call us 'independent contractors". Basically they don't want to give us benefits or any thing else for that matter.:thumbdown:

[PRC-UTE]

I am a news paper carrier, we are not allowed to have unions. They call us 'independent contractors". Basically they don't want to give us benefits or any thing else for that matter.:thumbdown:

That's right. You buy the papers, and have the potential of getting stiffed for the investment, don't you.

[Colonello Buendia]

I'm a member of the IWW though as I'm still in school I'm not in one of the labour unions ie 610 for health workers

[soyonstout]

I'm in the union where I work, but it's a joke. The president shut out people in the back of our tiny hall who wanted to move to somewhere where everyone could talk, all they ever do is tell us things (mostly, "just wait and do whatever we say whenever we say it"), there is no discussion and no possible way for any kind of political consciousness to develop there. Frankly I don't think they'll even be able to "defend" any jobs since I work in the public sector and all their contract wrangling is dependent on a balanced budget, since there's a budget gap they can't do anything to protect people getting laid off. Now they are telling us to get ready for a long strike (which many in my workplace are certain is doomed--precisely because of the way the union would conduct it and because of the way the union inhibits people from thinking outside the box and trying to figure out how to make as big a stink as possible right away all over the region to defend our jobs). People just think the union will take care of it and that's exactly what the union wants them to think and it doesn't really protect anyone--when I found out about 100 positions being cut 2 months after I was hired, guess what the union told me? "Find another job, kid. Call back your old employer." Because of a bizarre choice about which job classes to target, I actually didn't get fired, but the union didn't do a damn thing about the layoffs (8 people, some of whom moved to the city for that job specifically, and ALL of whom had left other jobs in the last 6 months to work there, got the axe).

I actually was a lot more cautious about the left communist view of unions and thought it seemed a bit ultra-left, but seeing them in action (the union where I work anyway) has brought me a lot closer to thinking that workers need to do something on their own that defends them together as a class and actually has the potential to make them more self-conscious, more self-confident, etc. Not just to continue to be herded blindly around like sheep--if the union bosses can blindly lead them, the bougeoisie will be able to as well.

[Luís Henrique]

In Brazil there are no such things like "unionised" and "non-unionised" workplaces.

But yes, I am affiliated to a union (civil servants of Brasília), and have been, in the past, a member of its board.

Luís Henrique

[El Furibundo]

Here in Wichita there are a lot of large aircraft corporations that have manufacturing facilities. Most of them are unionized, but it seems that the only time they strike or threaten to strike is when their contracts are up (or near so.) Every one of these corporations have been laying off workers for the last six months due to the state of the economy and the unions have been virtually silent.

I'm no expert on unions, but aren't they supposed to help workers keep their jobs in times like these?

[the last donut of the night]

In Brazil there are no such things like "unionised" and "non-unionised" workplaces.

Could you explain that to me? I´m Brazilian. However, I actually haven´t lived there too long, so I´m not too good with Brazilian politics. Thanks.

P.S: I was going to ask in Portuguese, but I think that would keep some members here from learning.

[pastradamus]

The last option "I am unemployed" is invalid as you can be an unemployed union member. Fee's for which are almost always free.

[GregoryAButler]

I am a member of local 608, United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America - joined as a first year apprentice carpenter in August 1992, became a journeylevel carpenter in June 1996 and was appointed as a shop steward (first line union representative on the jobsites) in November 1998.

[GregoryAButler]

Though I don't know about Canada, but in the US it is illegal to threaten to close a factory if the employees discuss unionization.

Yes, it's a civil tort under US labor law for a boss to threaten to close a factory if it goes union - but, as a practical matter, it's cheaper for an American boss to make the threat and pay the US$ 1,000 fine from the Department of Labor than to let the workers go union.

[Luís Henrique]

Could you explain that to me?

I am not sure I understand what the difference is between a "unionised" and a "non-unionised" workplace. So perhaps your question is like asking a blind person to explain how is it to be unable to distinguish red from blue.

In Brazil people can join or leave unions at their (people's, not union's) discretion. People can't be fired for being, or not being, members of unions. On the other hand, unions enjoy a monopoly of workers' representation; if an employer needs to negotiate with his/her employees, this has to be made via union. Employers can be sanctioned by the State for refusing to negotiate with the relevant union.


I´m Brazilian. However, I actually haven´t lived there too long, so I´m not too good with Brazilian politics. Thanks.

Legal. That you are Brazilian, not that you haven't lived here too long.


P.S: I was going to ask in Portuguese, but I think that would keep some members here from learning.

Né?

Luís Henrique

[Mephisto]

I voted for "I am a union member and my workplace is unionized".

In fact, I am just a student but I'm a member of the Gewerkschaft Erziehung und Wissenschaft (Union for Science and Education) in Germany (it's mostly a teacher's union, but there is a fair amount of university employees and students as well).

[the last donut of the night]

I am not sure I understand what the difference is between a "unionised" and a "non-unionised" workplace. So perhaps your question is like asking a blind person to explain how is it to be unable to distinguish red from blue.

In Brazil people can join or leave unions at their (people's, not union's) discretion. People can't be fired for being, or not being, members of unions. On the other hand, unions enjoy a monopoly of workers' representation; if an employer needs to negotiate with his/her employees, this has to be made via union. Employers can be sanctioned by the State for refusing to negotiate with the relevant union.

Thanks cara.


By the way, is there a Portuguese thread on the international languages forum?

[GregoryAButler]

Luis,

In America, we have what we call the "union shop" - that is, if a private sector workplace has a contract with a union, all of the workers are required to join the union within 30 days of getting hired, and to remain in the union for as long as they work there.

There are exceptions - under the Labor Management Relations Act, state governments have the right to allow workers to refuse to join the union - there are 21 so called "right to work states" - mostly conservative states in the old Confederate South and in the west - with this legal requirement.

But, in the other 29 states, plus Washington DC, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam and American Samoa - the "union shop" rules apply.

Also, at railroads, airlines and oil pipelines - which are governed by the Railway Labor Act - there are similar union shop rules.

Union membership is optional for civilian employees of the federal government and the US Postal Service [military personnel are non union] and, as for state, county, city, township, village and other local government employees, each state has it's own public employee labor laws - with most of the 21 "right to work states" restricting union rights for public employees.

There is only one union per "bargaining unit" - that is, in some places, all of the workers are represented by the same union - in others - like the airlines or construction - there is one union for each craft of workers, but only one union per craft.

Hope that explains it.


I am not sure I understand what the difference is between a "unionised" and a "non-unionised" workplace. So perhaps your question is like asking a blind person to explain how is it to be unable to distinguish red from blue.

In Brazil people can join or leave unions at their (people's, not union's) discretion. People can't be fired for being, or not being, members of unions. On the other hand, unions enjoy a monopoly of workers' representation; if an employer needs to negotiate with his/her employees, this has to be made via union. Employers can be sanctioned by the State for refusing to negotiate with the relevant union.



Legal. That you are Brazilian, not that you haven't lived here too long.



Né?

Luís Henrique

[kong]

International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. IWW

[Luís Henrique]

In America, we have what we call the "union shop" - that is, if a private sector workplace has a contract with a union, all of the workers are required to join the union within 30 days of getting hired, and to remain in the union for as long as they work there.

There are exceptions - under the Labor Management Relations Act, state governments have the right to allow workers to refuse to join the union - there are 21 so called "right to work states" - mostly conservative states in the old Confederate South and in the west - with this legal requirement.

But, in the other 29 states, plus Washington DC, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam and American Samoa - the "union shop" rules apply.

Also, at railroads, airlines and oil pipelines - which are governed by the Railway Labor Act - there are similar union shop rules.

Union membership is optional for civilian employees of the federal government and the US Postal Service [military personnel are non union] and, as for state, county, city, township, village and other local government employees, each state has it's own public employee labor laws - with most of the 21 "right to work states" restricting union rights for public employees.

There is only one union per "bargaining unit" - that is, in some places, all of the workers are represented by the same union - in others - like the airlines or construction - there is one union for each craft of workers, but only one union per craft.

Hope that explains it.

Thank you very much!

Luís Henrique

[GregoryAButler]

You're quite welcome, Luis!

[Atlanta]

Yea UFCW

[MilitantWorker]

It's good to see that non-union membership is the trend...it's also interesting that the biggest answer was unemployed.

Unions are just extensions of the bourgeois state. I voted I am not.

[GregoryAButler]

Labor Unions are reformist workers organizations of economic struggle, usually led by representatives of the most privileged section of the working class, the labor aristocracy.

That's a far cry from them being extensions of the bourgeois state!

There have been exceptional situations where unions have been extremely government dominated - Nazi Germany, Mexico under the PRI - but those are exceptions, rather than the rule.


It's good to see that non-union membership is the trend...it's also interesting that the biggest answer was unemployed.

Unions are just extensions of the bourgeois state. I voted I am not.

[Luís Henrique]

In America, we have what we call the "union shop" - that is, if a private sector workplace has a contract with a union, all of the workers are required to join the union within 30 days of getting hired, and to remain in the union for as long as they work there.

I see. This would be unconstitutional under Brazilian law, as the Constitution strictly forbids forced membership in any organisation. So in any workplace there are people who are and who are not members of unions. However, whatever deals the companies do with the unions, they must extend the benefits to non-unionised employees as well.


There are exceptions - under the Labor Management Relations Act, state governments have the right to allow workers to refuse to join the union - there are 21 so called "right to work states" - mostly conservative states in the old Confederate South and in the west - with this legal requirement.

I fear that this actually doesn't mean that "workers are allowed to refuse the union", but that the companies are allowed to forbid the workers to join a union.


Union membership is optional for civilian employees of the federal government and the US Postal Service [military personnel are non union] and, as for state, county, city, township, village and other local government employees, each state has it's own public employee labor laws - with most of the 21 "right to work states" restricting union rights for public employees.

Here states and municipalities can apply their own legislation to their civil servants, or chose to apply the federal labour legislation (that is, private sector labour legislation). But they cannot restrict union rights, since those are constitutionally protected.


There is only one union per "bargaining unit" - that is, in some places, all of the workers are represented by the same union - in others - like the airlines or construction - there is one union for each craft of workers, but only one union per craft.

Here we have different unions per craft (and also per profession); a typical workplace would have members of various unions. The minimal base for a union is the municipality, which means that you cannot have two unions for the same craft in the same municipality. If you want to have a schism, you must justify it in terms of a "different base", ie, a different craft or profession.

Luís Henrique

[GregoryAButler]

I see Brazilian labor law is very different than American labor law!

Thanks for the summary, Luis!


I see. This would be unconstitutional under Brazilian law, as the Constitution strictly forbids forced membership in any organisation. So in any workplace there are people who are and who are not members of unions. However, whatever deals the companies do with the unions, they must extend the benefits to non-unionised employees as well.



I fear that this actually doesn't mean that "workers are allowed to refuse the union", but that the companies are allowed to forbid the workers to join a union.



Here states and municipalities can apply their own legislation to their civil servants, or chose to apply the federal labour legislation (that is, private sector labour legislation). But they cannot restrict union rights, since those are constitutionally protected.



Here we have different unions per craft (and also per profession); a typical workplace would have members of various unions. The minimal base for a union is the municipality, which means that you cannot have two unions for the same craft in the same municipality. If you want to have a schism, you must justify it in terms of a "different base", ie, a different craft or profession.

Luís Henrique

[pastradamus]

Labor Unions are reformist workers organizations of economic struggle, usually led by representatives of the most privileged section of the working class, the labor aristocracy.

In some circumstances yes they are. SOME UNIONS I MEAN!


That's a far cry from them being extensions of the bourgeois state! In Ireland we have siptu which go against every working class tradition ever made - a group which I believe are against the worker. So in saying that, I believe many a union do in fact work within the state - rather than against it.

There have been exceptional situations where unions have been extremely government dominated - Nazi Germany, Mexico under the PRI - but those are exceptions, rather than the rule.
Ah well one cant count Nazi Germany! The state was the union !!! Mexico became a product of Social Democracy and then social capitalism..... However I agree, Unions are for the most part a union of discontented workers protecting their rights and of whom wish to safeguard themselves from capitalism.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Unfortunately I do not have a job, mainly because of my young age and of course the crisis. I plan to become very active in trade unionism once I am in full employment :).

[kellster102292]

At my job we are not allowed to have unions. Does anyone really know what the rule for unions are in the united states government jobs?

[Chicano Shamrock]

At my job we are not allowed to have unions. Does anyone really know what the rule for unions are in the united states government jobs?
I am not exactly sure but I am pretty sure that is against labor laws. As far as I know workers have the right to organize unions in the USA.

[yuon]

Unfortunately I do not have a job, mainly because of my young age and of course the crisis. I plan to become very active in trade unionism once I am in full employment :).

I'm in a similar situation (except for the young age bit).

This thread raises a thought though, is there an "unemployed workers union" around your place?

In Australia I can find:
http://www.hotfrog.com.au/Companies/Unemployed-Workers-Union-co-operative-society
http://www.greenleft.org.au/1991/26/667

But nothing else. *Shrug*

[hoosiersharp]

alot of the local factories tried to unionize when the economy fell apart and last year, alot of guys got turned in by co-employees for being pro-union or signing papers agreeing to form or become part of a union in their factory.

my supervisor found out i was pro-union and an anarchist and i was let go.

so now i moved to a college town, to become a "service worker" somewhere here hopefully soon and go to school to do what i really want to do.

[kellster102292]

I am not exactly sure but I am pretty sure that is against labor laws. As far as I know workers have the right to organize unions in the USA.
I am in a government job though. So I don't know if they can over ride that or what.

[Chicano Shamrock]

I am in a government job though. So I don't know if they can over ride that or what.
Laws are laws. Even the President doesn't have the authority to override laws... from a legal stand point. I don't really know the labor laws though myself so it's hard to say.

[anonymous red]

I am in a government job though. So I don't know if they can over ride that or what.

what part of government and where do you live? state employees have collective bargaining rights on a state by state basis. most federal employees have union rights.

[redasheville]

I am a member of United Educators of San Francisco. I'm a teacher's aide. My union is affiliated with both of the national teacher unions (American Federation of Teachers and National Educators Association).

[Anaximander]

Currently unemployed, so no. Was working at McDonalds, but I couldn't stand it for various reasons. I talked to a few employees about organization, but they sort of shrugged it off. I don't know if there is a specific term for it, but McDonalds sort of engages in union busting through illusory benefits for their employees. Very insidious, very much an antidote.

I am looking for a union job, but not many places are hiring around here at the moment. Fingers crossed though! Flat broke..

[BorealStorm]

Another unemployed here. I should be working a little harder, so I can't be completely indignant about the situation. But I do frequently apply for jobs.

Current plans are to reapply for YMCA a few more times. And to apply for my dad's job which I hear has an opening.

[MiisTran2010]

This is my first time i visit here. I found so many entertaining stuff in your blog, especially its discussion. From the tons of comments on your articles, I guess I am not the only one having all the enjoyment here! Keep up the excellent work.

[Rousedruminations]

There is a union at our workplace, called the SDA, but i haven't joined it. Increasingly the unions in Australia have been futile, as their has been a big rift between the old and new labor party. They are a bit powerless right now, compared to 20 plus years ago

[lenwhitney]

I am a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, local 2320.:trotski:

[RED DAVE]

I'm currently a member of the American Federation of Teachers, trying to organize my workplace. In the past, I've been a member of the Health and Hospital Workers, Caseworkers, Letter Carriers, Teachers, Printers and Service Workers unions.

RED DAVE

[Bilan]

I have left my union, the MEAA, and I am glad. Piece of fucking shit.

[Red Commissar]

At my job we are not allowed to have unions. Does anyone really know what the rule for unions are in the united states government jobs?

Do you live in a right-to-work state? If you do then that's probably the problem. It requires that no job forces anyone to join a union. Additionally in those states there's nothing stopping you from joining a union, but there's nothing stopping the bosses from firing you over it either. The law there is even more on the side of management, and makes it incredibly hard for unions to be able to get any guarantee through collective bargaining.

[RED DAVE]

In general, civil service workers are among the most highly unionized workers in the US, but it varies from state to to state. Federal workers are also relatively well unionized.

RED DAVE

[elf]

Should I be a member of a union when they play a part in preventing real radical action? Should I be a member of a union when the union bosses dictate to the rank and file?
Should I be a member of a union when no one else seems to care? And the union has yet to approach me or other colleagues to join?

I'll take the benefits, I'll strike the strike, but I'll not join.

[RED DAVE]

Should I be a member of a union when they play a part in preventing real radical action? Should I be a member of a union when the union bosses dictate to the rank and file?
Should I be a member of a union when no one else seems to care? And the union has yet to approach me or other colleagues to join?

I'll take the benefits, I'll strike the strike, but I'll not join.Then you have very little chance of influencing your fellow workers.

RED DAVE

[aredflint]

Michigan Education Association but my pay is still basically slave labor. The last 20 years have seen the union basically blow administration.

[dawt]

Both a union member, and unemployed... well, i'm a student. There's no good reason not to organize!:star:

[Die Rote Fahne]

I'm in a union now.

[Optiow]

I am not in a union, as I do not currently have a job.

[Joe Payne]

I too, am a union member.

[Wobblie]

IWW member, and just quit my job to move. Keeping my union membership though.

[ContrarianLemming]

im union, sorry to see so many of us are jobless :(

[∞]

You guys need to work, shit.

[Buitraker]

I live in Spain, so I am unemployed

[welshexile1963]

I am a member of PCS and a Site Rep & Branch Deputy Organiser & LOVE IT! :D

[BLACKPLATES]

This is obviously a very very general question, that im sure most other Comarades think about often...Since the 1970's the power of Labor Unions has been nearly destroyed (even if you live in France or some other place where Unions are still relatively strong, the destruction of American and British Unions was a massive blow to the struggle). In the US the power of labor unions is almost entirely in their ability to collect money -money they can use to bribe politicians in US electoral politics, or run advertisements in the imperialist media, or fund lawsuits in the imperialist justice system.In other words, there are no democratic policies left. Strikes and demonstrations are almost non existent and have almost no effect.In the 70's neoliberal economists all agreed(conspired)to "determine" that Labor unions had become "too powerful" and should be weakened. They did this with a vengence of course by offshoring, and getting laws passed to criple and kill unions. They are still working on trying to kill off the scattered remnants.SO, what mechanism is left to us to discipline capital? I dont think that staying out of the political fight until we have a revolutionary army is going to make things better, or make things bad enough to tip the scales our way.Capitalists in the west have shown ASTONISHING skill at propagandizing and persuading the masses to sign away everything to them.What tools do we have to put the pressure to capital??

[Tavarisch_Mike]

NO, unfortunately many of the local union clubs tend to be to close to the social-democrat party (the class-traitors) and if that wasnt enough many elected union representatives tend to get bounded with the bosses. Im thinking of joining the syndicalist union SAC but that would mean that i will be the only member, and stuggling workers dont need more splits.

[Stand Your Ground]

You guys need to work, shit.
Work isn't exactly easy to find, at least in the U.S.

I'm not in a union but we have one guy at our restaraunt that works for Verizon and he has a union there, and he's good friends with my boss so he has some influence on what happens, not as much as I would like though. My boss & him agreed that if we need a break we can take one whenever we like, although in my 7 months of working there I've yet to get one. :bored: It's too chaotic in there so there's never down time.

[La Comédie Noire]

I work, but I am not in a union. I only make $8.00 an hour. :(

[leftace53]

I am currently unemployed as I'm getting my shit together to move, and go back to school. I have never been in a union.

[NGNM85]

I'm in a union, presently. It's about the only good thing about my job. However, the last contract negotiation was rough, and with the downturn in the economy providing a mass of desperate unemployed, they're only getting bolder. I don't know what's going to happen when the next contract comes up.

[Fietsketting]

no not yet because A) i do not have a paid job at a social work place yet until then working as a volunteer to cut the waiting period down and B) because the dutch unions are massive sell-outs

You might be in for a suprise around November then. ;)

[Vendetta]

I work at a DQ and out the back door, so no.

[AnimalMother]

Yes. I'm a commercial diver/apprentice dockbuilder, in the United Brotherhood of Carpenters.

[MarxSchmarx]

I work at a DQ and out the back door, so no.

So organize!

PS. Same to you comrade floyd!

[Reznov]

So organize!

PS. Same to you comrade floyd!

And how would we do something like that?

[MarxSchmarx]

So organize!

PS. Same to you comrade floyd! And how would we do something like that?

Get in touch with the union representing your class of workers (e.g., public sector, food service, etc...). Tell them the situation and if they are worth their salt they will send out an organizer to at least see what the situation is like, and attempt to plan a campaign. New union members = more dues = greater operating budget so most have a strong interest in pursuing it.

An alternative is to join a union like the IWW that doesn't require the whole workplace be unionized, but the benefits can be quite deferred.

[MrCharizma]

I'm currently unemployed, but when I was employed I was not in a union, is this something that I should be considering even though I am still quite young?
I don't know a lot about the whole union thing, are there some links as to how they work/what they do? I would probably consider joining one soon after I finish school. (2 months away :D)

[Weezer]

Sort of off topic: Would Students for a Democratic Society count as a student's union?

[japagow1]

I'm in the USAW retailers union in the UK.

When middle America can get its interpretation of the word 'socialism' correct I shall start believing until then I feel that alot of the comments on this web site are some form of teenage angst or intellectual masturbation.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I was in BECTU when I was working on and off in media. There was a lot of debate regarding the low to no pay of media workers; an established camera operator could make 500+ a day, but a student camera trainee (which is a recognized film credit in the industry) would make nothing at all for his or her labour.

I was also a member of a retail union when I was working in a stationary shop, we were not unionised and as far as I could gather, the union was pretty inactive anyway.

[scot_com]

CWU and getting prepared for another Winter of Discontent !

[Sosa]

IWW working on unionizing my workplace right now

[Die Rote Fahne]

Im considrring contacting CUPE or NAPE to see what I can do to unionize my workplace.

[Jdalichau]

Yes, International Brotherhood of Teamsters.

[Summerspeaker]

I'm participating in the creation of a graduate student employee union at my university. I'm not sure how that fits into the poll.

[Sosa]

Im considrring contacting CUPE or NAPE to see what I can do to unionize my workplace.

Can I ask where you work? or what kind of work you do?

[Rotfront]

I'm participating in the creation of a graduate student employee union at my university. I'm not sure how that fits into the poll.

I am in the same situation, but the student employee union at my university is already created.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Can I ask where you work? or what kind of work you do?

Customer service at a circle k. CUPE is public, so im not really sure what union to go to...

[DJ-Anarcho-Redist]

I have been IWW for two years. I tried to organize my workplace and the employer made and bogus excuse they could to fire me. I got my unemployment though.:laugh::laugh:

[craigd89]

I'm currently working at a pizza place as a delivery driver and in school for plumbing and hvac...I know some guys in the UA.. pipefitters union who can get me in when I finish school.

[southernmissfan]

I'm currently in the National Education Association and Alabama Education Association. They are essentially the "teacher's unions" though the leadership is heavily bureaucratized.

[la lucha sigue]

I've just joined a Union, not because I have any faith in the particular Union itself (or indeed Unions in general), but simply for the opportunity to be working alongside other organised workers in defence of our working conditions, and my choice of union was dictated solely by the fact that there is one recognised union and therefore the few people in the workplace who are unionised are in that particular union.

I made my feelings on the particular Union and on Unions in general known at our first union meeting and I was immediately proposed and elected as shop steward :lol:

[Euronymous]

I am currently a member of Local Laborers 252 and the IWW. Sadly my coworkers and I have absolutly no faith the Local 252 as they have signed away our power as workers by proposing "No Strike Promises" as well as a low wage schedule. I have also found out that my workers and I are the lowest payed laborers in the union. I am currently discussing a strike with my fellow workers if they do not propose a contract that is fair to us. Should be an interesting year indeed.

[TheRedNovice]

I am a member of Nautilus (the Netherlands' and UK's Union for Merchant Marine Officers) and also an active supporter of the ITF (International Transportworkers' Federation).
In shipping there is definitely a need for Unions to safeguard the rights of seafarers when dealing with (sometimes) highly capitalistic and profit motivated shipowners.
Of particular importance is the work of the ITF in safeguarding the basic rights of those who work on ships wearing "flags of convenience". Ensuring that the ships meet minimum safety standards (as regards working conditions and general seaworthiness), their crews are paid on time and re-patriated regularly.

[Left]

Yeah I'm a member of a union, the Swedish Trade Union Confederation, or Landsorganisationen(LO) as it's called in swedish.

Everyone working at my construction site are in a union, but we're pretty unhappy with the Social Democratic Party that we have ties with are moving towards the right and pretty much pissed that the centre-right coalition won the election.

I won't leave the union, but I'm unhappy with the fact that the corporations have poured money into our movement to drag us to the right and make sure we don't get out of line.

[Metacomet]

8.00 an hour at Macy's

Only get called in whenever they desire, so it's borderline part-time.

I'm in the IWW.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Yeah I'm a member of a union, the Swedish Trade Union Confederation, or Landsorganisationen(LO) as it's called in swedish.

Everyone working at my construction site are in a union, but we're pretty unhappy with the Social Democratic Party that we have ties with are moving towards the right and pretty much pissed that the centre-right coalition won the election.

I won't leave the union, but I'm unhappy with the fact that the corporations have poured money into our movement to drag us to the right and make sure we don't get out of line.
Always interested in hearing if you have any first-hand experience with S.A.C. (Sveriges Arbetares Centralorganisation)

[Left]

Always interested in hearing if you have any first-hand experience with S.A.C. (Sveriges Arbetares Centralorganisation)

Nah, not really.

All I know about them is that they're pretty well-organized, have their own newspaper(Arbetaren) and are alot more radical than LO is.

They have frequent strikes and protests, but they're not a large union... partly because people might be afraid of their radical stance and because traditionally LO has been the way to go.

[rockstars must die]

Im a UNION APPR PIPEFITTER for LOCAL 469 in Tucson az

[No_Leaders]

Not in a union currently but have contemplated joining the IWW. Currently my workplace is non-unionized.

[Bostana]

Unions are an important part in a country because it is the proletariat that runs the country and you dont want to upset someone who runs the country.

[ellipsis]

Not in a union currently but have contemplated joining the IWW. Currently my workplace is non-unionized.

Ditto but I am self employed.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I've been wondering if I should throw my lot in with the IWW. The guys I met seemed like a nice sort.

What do you guys think?

[RED DAVE]

While the IWW are a "nice sort" of guys, it remains to be seen whether their organizing strategy is viable.

Meanwhile:


Furniture Workers Win Ikea Union Drive, With Help from Abroadhttp://labornotes.org/2011/08/furniture-workers-win-ikea-union-drive-help-abroad

RED DAVE

[agnixie]

I'm in a very active student union that's affiliated to a radical student union federation that does universities and Quebec's "lycee" equivalent, and was until I quit my most recent job in a very active education workers' union part of a larger federation.

Also I love the wobblies.

[RadioRaheem84]

A lot of unemployed!! My heart goes out to the comrades without work.

In the US you can bet that more than half of the nations workforce is not in a union.

We're are the most anti-union nation in the developed world.

[syndicat]

actually only 12 percent of workers are in unions and only 6.5 percent of workers in the private sector. with the huge concentration of unions in the public sector, they were a sitting target, and that is what the Republicans, acting for the employing class, are taking aim at now.

the inherited bureaucratic business unions show no capacity to turn this around.

[Klaatu]

I am in the Michigan teachers' union.

Statistics show that, on average, only 10% or fewer of workers are unionized, across all sectors.

This means that there are ten times as many non-union jobs as there are union jobs.
Logically, it therefore stands to reason that there are ten times as many non-union jobs available as there are union jobs.

So then if someone hates unions, they can simply join a non-union workplace, and just quit their *****ing.
They can be happily exploited if they so wish. But leave us alone. No one asked for their opinion, anyway. :thumbdown:

[agnixie]

To be quite fair, 32% of working age americans only have full time work - unemployment is in the region of 21% and underemployment is about 45% with rounding errors being people on disability and the like. Even if people were to unionize most Americans would be too precarious to afford it.


Statistics show that, on average, only 10% or fewer of workers are unionized, across all sectors.

Actually 12 point something, less than 10% is only private sector workers.

[citizen of industry]

General Union, Japan. In a non-union workplace. We've been fighting for 4 years for some contract improvements - minority unionism is a drain.

In Japan, about 18% of the workforce is unionized. It's been in decline over the past three decades but has increased a bit after the recession. But, a lot of those are in "company" unions that don't strike, agree to salary cuts and have people on the management track in their ranks. There's only a handful of militant unions. The government privatized the national railways in the 80's to break up Sohyo, the largest union federation (with ties to the socialist party), and created this arch conservative federation called "Rengo" that is pro-government and seeks "harmony" in labor-management relations.

[Pioneers_Violin]

IAM, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
I'm a troublemaking Union Organizer, though I only helped do it once so far.

Just dying to start Organizing again.... ;)

[JazzRemington]

At one of my previous jobs I was in a union but since I never received any info from the union (even after asking for it several times) I never knew I had to sign some papers to be still in the union even after quitting the job. At my current job, there is no union and unlikely to be for the foreseeable future., because it's Walmart.

[chimx]

IAM, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
I'm a troublemaking Union Organizer, though I only helped do it once so far.

Just dying to start Organizing again.... ;)

Boeing? Seattle?

[Zav]

I am currently unemployed due to rejection of work, but am still a member of the IWW. It's not hypocritical. It's simultaneously supporting the Leftist cause in two ways: one, by rejecting the flawed system of wage slavery, and two, by supporting and participating in action to make life better for those who do work.

[Pioneers_Violin]

boeing? Seattle?

Нет.
Чикаго.

[Summerspeaker]

I'm in between option two and three, but I chose the former because it makes me feel better. We've got a proto-union of graduate student employees going on at my school.

[Delenda Carthago]

I am currently unemployed due to rejection of work, but am still a member of the IWW. It's not hypocritical. It's simultaneously supporting the Leftist cause in two ways: one, by rejecting the flawed system of wage slavery, and two, by supporting and participating in action to make life better for those who do work.
How is rejection of work helps the revolutionary cause?

[pastradamus]

I am currently unemployed due to rejection of work, but am still a member of the IWW. It's not hypocritical. It's simultaneously supporting the Leftist cause in two ways: one, by rejecting the flawed system of wage slavery, and two, by supporting and participating in action to make life better for those who do work.

I gotta say that looking at the poll (whereby most people described themselves as being unemployed) im somewhat astonished by the amount of people that think that being a student is also classed as being "unemployed" - its not, in any definition.

I am also astonished at how many people think that the unemployed have no role to play in union affairs. When I lost my job about a year ago I fought harder than ever and played a more active role in workers rights than most people so get up and do something for your future self comrades.

[Ermo Kruus]

I don't work at the moment, but I have in the past. I'm currently studying and I want to work aswell, but I've been struggling with some personal issues that have made work impossible combined with school.

[Welshy]

Well got a new job as a janitor in a dining hall at my university, but I'm not unionized despite the fact I work side by side with unionized people who are in AFSCME. My university has two sets of workers here. There are unionized workers and 03 workers. 03 workers don't have a union and have no benefits. Some of them are fairly young but there's a pretty old guy I work with whose an 03 and a lot of the unionized workers started out as 03's and had to work a while before being a unionized worker.

[El Louton]

Bearing in mind I'm 15, no!

[agnixie]

I gotta say that looking at the poll (whereby most people described themselves as being unemployed) im somewhat astonished by the amount of people that think that being a student is also classed as being "unemployed" - its not, in any definition.

I am also astonished at how many people think that the unemployed have no role to play in union affairs. When I lost my job about a year ago I fought harder than ever and played a more active role in workers rights than most people so get up and do something for your future self comrades.

Additionally, I've been involved in unionization drives for college students, along with campaigns to convince smaller student unions to affiliate with the more radical socialist student and worker unions in my region. Admittedly, student politics in some parts are not as much serious business as others. In my city, they are.