Karma

[cleef]

Not sure if this is in the right section but do you believe in the idea of 'what goes around comes around'?

[apathy maybe]

From a philosophical and materialistic perspective the idea is as bunk as that of "luck". From a psychological perspective it is very ... what's the word? Appealing?

But yeah, I think it's a load of bunk, but that doesn't stop me from sometimes thinking that it would be a good time for some good luck to come my way...

[Hit The North]

I'm redirecting this to religion.

[Killfacer]

It doesnt exist.

[Followthewhiterabbit]

Hmmm, I'll believe it when the unethical Megalomaniac Corporations and Oil Cartels are finished and there owners and supporters burned at the stake (slow burning, something like diesel (Shit I don't know they make the stuff)), at which point a herd of cattle would be fed there ashes and the shit (with ashes contained) collected and then burned again. At which point the giant urn (they are very fat) with the shitashes inside would be strapped to a rocket and flown into the sun.

Then and maybe just then would I believe that what goes around comes around:p

[Decolonize The Left]

"What goes around comes around" is a simplified version of Karma, much like 'the Golden Rule' is a simplified version of Kant's categorical imperative.

Basically, karma has merit only in the following way: everything that you do has effects on everything else. Hence what you do will inevitably affect your environment in such a way that you will later engage in the effects of your actions.

Ex: I walk into a coffee shop with a surly look on my face, make a quick remark to the person behind the counter that they need to make and bring me a latte, I pay and don't give them a tip. They make me a crappy latte.

I regards to this example, a religious person would say that your spirit was equalizing its karma by you receiving a bad latte. A less religious person would say "what goes around comes around."

A materialist would say that my actions, including my disrespecting the worker, led to the worker being upset with me and retaliating by making a bad drink. No need for karma, no need for mystical things.

Which seems more logical and real to you?

- August

[Socialist18]

I used to be a real prick of a person (A heroin addicted thief) and I was always screwing people over and I found I was always getting something back in return for my actions.
The whole idea of karma seems like bullshit to me but it seemed to work me over more than a few times. Might just be coincidence but maybe not, I don't know and to be honest I don't give a fuck. Its irrelevant in my opinion whether it exists or not. If I was 100% materialist I'd be inclined to say it doesn't but because I'm agnostic I'm open to anything.

[pusher robot]

August wins the thread.

Karma does not have to be mystical, it can merely be the truth that your attitude and behavior affect your environment and your perception of it. In other words, as my favorite musician put it, "Life is like a sewer... What you get out of it depends on what you put into it."

[Killfacer]

If someone made a shit latte for me, i would ask for a good one?

[Dean]

"What goes around comes around" is a simplified version of Karma, much like 'the Golden Rule' is a simplified version of Kant's categorical imperative.

Basically, karma has merit only in the following way: everything that you do has effects on everything else. Hence what you do will inevitably affect your environment in such a way that you will later engage in the effects of your actions.

Ex: I walk into a coffee shop with a surly look on my face, make a quick remark to the person behind the counter that they need to make and bring me a latte, I pay and don't give them a tip. They make me a crappy latte.

I regards to this example, a religious person would say that your spirit was equalizing its karma by you receiving a bad latte. A less religious person would say "what goes around comes around."

A materialist would say that my actions, including my disrespecting the worker, led to the worker being upset with me and retaliating by making a bad drink. No need for karma, no need for mystical things.

Which seems more logical and real to you?

- August

"You talk about Karma / but I don't believe it / 'cause I can't see it / or feel it / bring on the Karma / the apocalyptic Karma!" -Snog

[Faction2008]

No Karma doesn't exist. It's merely a coincidence, that's why we have a word for such situations.

[Decolonize The Left]

No Karma doesn't exist. It's merely a coincidence, that's why we have a word for such situations.

No it's not - it's neither karma nor coincidence. Both are meaningless terms.

Ex:
I decide that I want to go to the market to buy some veggies.
My friend decides that she wants to go to the market to buy some veggies.
We both leave our respective homes and go to the market and see each other there.
Karma? Nope.
Coincidence? Nope.
Just what happened.

- August

[Dean]

No it's not - it's neither karma nor coincidence. Both are meaningless terms.

Ex:
I decide that I want to go to the market to buy some veggies.
My friend decides that she wants to go to the market to buy some veggies.
We both leave our respective homes and go to the market and see each other there.
Karma? Nope.
Coincidence? Nope.
Just what happened.

- August

No a coincidence is the convergence of two incidents... that's all. You go to the store + friend goes to the store == coincidence.

[Decolonize The Left]

No a coincidence is the convergence of two incidents... that's all. You go to the store + friend goes to the store == coincidence.

Ok, but that's just a term which you've applied to a situation which didn't need it in the first place. I went to the store because I wanted to. My friend went to the store because she wanted to. We, subsequently, met at the store.

This is not a 'coincidence,' rather, it's the outcome of two decisions to go to the store. It's only a 'coincidence' from the perspective of someone who doesn't want to acknowledge the factors which led to the meeting...

- August

[pusher robot]

This is not a 'coincidence,' rather, it's the outcome of two decisions to go to the store. It's only a 'coincidence' from the perspective of someone who doesn't want to acknowledge the factors which led to the meeting...

- August

No it is not, it is a coincidence from anyone's point of view. You seem to think that the word "coincidence" means that an event has some special meaning, but it doesn't. It just means that two things happened at the same time without being intended that way (and generally reserved for when the two things happening at the same time is somewhat improbable.) E.g., you and your friend did not intend to go to the store at the same time, and it is improbable that you would both choose to go at the same time, but you did - thus it is a coincidence. That's all it means.

[Faction2008]

No it's not - it's neither karma nor coincidence. Both are meaningless terms.

Ex:
I decide that I want to go to the market to buy some veggies.
My friend decides that she wants to go to the market to buy some veggies.
We both leave our respective homes and go to the market and see each other there.
Karma? Nope.
Coincidence? Nope.
Just what happened.

- August
That is a coincidence.

[Decolonize The Left]

No it is not, it is a coincidence from anyone's point of view. You seem to think that the word "coincidence" means that an event has some special meaning, but it doesn't. It just means that two things happened at the same time without being intended that way (and generally reserved for when the two things happening at the same time is somewhat improbable.) E.g., you and your friend did not intend to go to the store at the same time, and it is improbable that you would both choose to go at the same time, but you did - thus it is a coincidence. That's all it means.

Is it a coincidence that I see the moon through my window? I did not intend to see it...
Is it a coincidence that when I drove home from work, I passed seven cars? I did not intend to pass seven cars?
What about when I ordered pork for dinner? Did I intend that to happen when I walked in?

Countless events happen all the time regardless of intention - countless. Are they all coincidences? If so, why call them coincidences at all?

- August

[Killfacer]

Why are you arguing the meaning of the word coincidence?

[pusher robot]

Is it a coincidence that I see the moon through my window? I did not intend to see it...It is an incident. You need another incident for it to be coincident with for it to be a coincidence.


Is it a coincidence that when I drove home from work, I passed seven cars? I did not intend to pass seven cars?

It is technically a coincidence I suppose, but not very notable since it's entirely probable that you would pass seven cars.

What about when I ordered pork for dinner? Did I intend that to happen when I walked in?No, but "you walking in" and "you ordering" do not occur (usually) at the same time, thus they cannot be coincidental. If they do occur at the same time, and you didn't intend to order what you ordered, then I recommend some kind of speech therapy or perhaps psychoanalysis.


Countless events happen all the time regardless of intention - countless. Are they all coincidences? If so, why call them coincidences at all?

All things that happen at the same time are coincidental, yes. We generally use the word to highlight two or more of those things that are notable for some reason.

I suspect what you are driving at is why people find certain coincidences notable and others not. For example, it's as improbable that you would be at the grocery store the same time as anybody as it is with your friend. But you find the coincidence involving your friend more notable than the ones involving strangers. To which the answer seems obvious: what makes a coincidence notable is often, if not almost always, subjective. It typically involves improbabilities relating to things we are familiar with. That doesn't make it meaningless.

[Volderbeek]

Karma can't exist because there's no such thing as the self. Zen Buddhists try to make it compatible with this idea, but they're wrong. Only the Taoists are right here. :D

[Decolonize The Left]

I suspect what you are driving at is why people find certain coincidences notable and others not. For example, it's as improbable that you would be at the grocery store the same time as anybody as it is with your friend. But you find the coincidence involving your friend more notable than the ones involving strangers. To which the answer seems obvious: what makes a coincidence notable is often, if not almost always, subjective. It typically involves improbabilities relating to things we are familiar with. That doesn't make it meaningless.

People don't find "certain coincidences notable and others not," they find certain incidents notable and call them coincidences...

For when we speak of coincidences here, we are not speaking of the first dictionary definition - "the act of coinciding." We are speaking of the second - " the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident but seem to have some connection" (emphasis added).

You can see the difference...

- August

[Decolonize The Left]

Why are you arguing the meaning of the word coincidence?

Why not?

- August

[Dr Mindbender]

well if you want material proof of karma, Isaac Newton once said ''every force has an equal and opposite reaction''.

I'll let you make your own mind up.

[Bud Struggle]

well if you want material proof of karma, Isaac Newton once said ''every force has an equal and opposite reaction''.

I'll let you make your own mind up.

Good insight. :thumbup: