ANZAC day [Archive]

redstar2000

26th April 2003, 05:17

Was it not LL's hero Winston Churchell who was directly responsible for most of the Australian and New Zealand war dead?

Wasn't it Churchell's idea to organize an attack on Turkish forts near Istanbul...one of the most idiotic plans of an extraordinarily stupid imperialist war?

Wasn't that plan ill-supplied and ill-supported throughout? Was it Churchell himself who blamed the inevitable defeat on the "lack of fighting spirit" of the ANZAC men...or was that the considered judgment of the British officers in the field?

Enjoy your parade, LL, but maybe you'd like to start looking for another "hero".

:cool:

hazard

26th April 2003, 05:19

YEAH!

REDSTAR KICKS ASS!

SUCK ON THAT, LOVER, SUCK ON IT!

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 05:29

redstar2000,

Churchill, as first lord of the admiralty, was responsible for the bungled landing. The mishaps throughput the remaining months of the campaign can be accredited to Kitchener and Hamilton. Following Gallipoli Winston joined the Infantry corps and fought on the Western front.

Just because I have a Churchill quote as my sig does not mean he is my "hero". He was an intelligent man, if not the greatest of military commanders.

Churchill once told his physician Lord Moran that Australians were of "poor stock". Presumably he was referring to the so-called convict stain.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 6:52 am on April 26, 2003)

hazard

26th April 2003, 05:33

churchill was a racist, a sexist and a capitalist pig.

here's one, did you ever hear about the time when he asked some broad if she would sleep with him for like a million pounds and she said sure. and then he asked if she would sleep with him for a single pound and she responded by asking what sort of a woman she thought he was. to which, he executed this flawless coup to grace upon the hapless vixen. and you should quote this, but in reference to your mother.

"We have already determined what sort of a woman you are. Now we are simply hagling over the price. "

what a class act. fucking fascist

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 05:46

LOL He had a great sense of humour aswell.

One time a women said to him, "If I were married to you I would poison your tea." To which Churchill replied, "If I were married to you I would drink it"

hazard

26th April 2003, 05:51

as funny as these little quips are, I mean, what would the world think of his comments if he were a leader today? the socialist replacement of capitalist ideals is nearing completion...

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:07

.

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 7:15 am on April 26, 2003)

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:09

Apart from all the moaning going on on this thread, the dawn service is one of the most powerful experiences I have ever been a part of.

ANZACs formation has nothing to do with communism.

--IHP

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 07:11

ANZAC and communism have nothing in common.

Both New Zealand and Australian forces fought in Vietnam.

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:14

"Both New Zealand and Australian forces fought in Vietnam"

You'll remeber that the quote was that their formation had nothing to do with communism. You'll also remember that ANZAC wasn't formed at the start of the Vietnam war.

--IHP

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:16

Sorry about the posts here guys but my computer is screwing around with me.

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 07:17

I only saw your initial post that said "ANZAC and communism have nothing in common."

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 7:18 am on April 26, 2003)

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:20

Yes, changed that but my computer is in the head and posted both.....hmmm.

hazard

26th April 2003, 07:29

hear ya brother. my keyboard is fucked up. the "o" key sticks out a millimtetre too high and causes my fingers to trip about every fifteen strokes or so. it also requires an extra ounce of pressure to activate. fucking machines.

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:31

for a while my letter "j" didn't work. it made writing essays very difficult.

--IHP

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 07:35

Why didn't you get a new keyboard?

hazard

26th April 2003, 07:40

I would never support the capitalist pigs who make a fortune off of shipping defective keyboards for the sole purpose of forcing replacements to be purchased at a premium. I contatced the manufacturer and demanded a free replacement, but they were content to just rip me off. offered a twenty five percent discount. so I said they could stick the keyboard AND their discount up their ass. there's no way I'm gonna pay. its a fucking scam. they're making billions, no TRILLIONS of dollars off of shipping defects. so I send my board back, right, and they ship it to someone else. no way, no how. I'm gonna keep it and smash it over their fucking heads. whovever the hell they are.

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:40

It came good about two weeks later. Me being to poor student cant buy anything more than beer and petrol.

--IHP

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 07:42

You should join the reserves.

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:45

I almost did join ADFA to do my degree. However my construction job is paying the bills, and funding my trip at the moment, that'll do for now.

--IHP

nz revolution

26th April 2003, 07:50

Churchill was one of the imperialist bastards responsible.

Rommel was quoted as saying the ANZAC is much more steadier than the British.

POMs are whimps.

Join the territorials learn to fight then train up a militia.

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 07:54

Ahh, the desert fox. An excellent general was he.

"POMs are whimps."

OOOOOOOOOO...Careful, that sounds like racism to me.

IHP

26th April 2003, 07:58

"Rommel was quoted as saying the ANZAC is much more steadier than the British"

Im not nationalistic at all, but I have read a lot of quotes saying the same thing.

--IHP

Liberty Lover

26th April 2003, 09:30

The Japs made excellent soldiers. I recall reading somewhere that, in Singapore, 12, 000 ammo-less Japanese troops launched a bayonet charge against about 30, 000 well equipped commonwealth troops...and won.

MiNdGaMe

26th April 2003, 15:04

The ANZAC's defended/fought for the idea of freedom and liberty, nothing more and nothing less.

(Edited by MiNdGaMe at 3:05 pm on April 26, 2003)

Ian

26th April 2003, 23:57

Alec Campbell, the ANZAC who died last year, was a proud communist, as were many ANZACs in their younger years. So to say they were defending liberty from communism is stupid.

Tkinter1

27th April 2003, 00:17

"YEAH!

REDSTAR KICKS ASS!

SUCK ON THAT, LOVER, SUCK ON IT!"

What a dick rider.

synthesis

27th April 2003, 01:06

ASSORTED CHURCHILL QUOTES

I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes.
Writing as president of the Air Council, 1919

I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place.
Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

"The choice was clearly open: crush them with vain and unstinted force, or try to give them what they want. These were the only alternatives and most people were unprepared for either. Here indeed was the Irish spectre - horrid and inexorcisable.
Writing in The World Crisis and the Aftermath, 1923-31

One may dislike Hitler's system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations."
From his Great Contemporaries, 1937

You are callous people who want to wreck Europe - you do not care about the future of Europe, you have only your own miserable interests in mind.
Addressing the London Polish government at a British Embassy meeting, October 1944

So far as Britain and Russia were concerned, how would it do for you to have 90% of Romania, for us to have 90% of the say in Greece, and go 50/50 about Yugoslavia?
Addressing Stalin in Moscow, October 1944

This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."
Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920

(Edited by DyerMaker at 1:07 am on April 27, 2003)

(Edited by DyerMaker at 1:08 am on April 27, 2003)

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 01:19

Quote: from Ian Rocks on 11:57 pm on April 26, 2003
Alec Campbell, the ANZAC who died last year, was a proud communist, as were many ANZACs in their younger years. So to say they were defending liberty from communism is stupid.

WWI=Defending imperialism from imperialism

WWII=Defending democracy from fascism

Malaya=Defending freedom from communism

Korea=Defending freedom from communism

Vietnam=Defending freedom from communism

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:54 am on April 27, 2003)

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 01:42

MORE ASSORTED CHURCHILL QUOTES

"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time."

"If the Almighty were to rebuild the world and asked me for advice, I would have English Channels round every country. And the atmosphere would be such that anything which attempted to fly would be set on fire."

"In war, you can only be killed once, but in politics, many times."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

"No lover ever studied every whim of his mistress as I did those of President Roosevelt."

"In the course of my life, I have often had to eat my words, and I must confess that I have always found it a wholesome diet."

"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on."

"A fanatic is a person who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

"Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free, and life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fall, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age…. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour."

"From the days of Sparticus, Weishophf, Karl Marx, Trotski, Belacoon, Rosa Luxenburg, and Ema Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th Century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."

hazard

27th April 2003, 01:45

tkinter?:

as usual you got it backwards. thats typical tkinter. I'm calling (liberty)lover the "dick rider" by telling him to suck on "it". but somehow you think that in my saying the statements I did that it is I who should be doing the riding. next time, just don't say anything and assume I am right. because I always am.

(Edited by hazard at 1:48 pm on April 27, 2003)

Tkinter1

27th April 2003, 01:51

"YEAH!

REDSTAR KICKS ASS!

SUCK ON THAT, LOVER, SUCK ON IT!"

Ride on hazard.

synthesis

27th April 2003, 01:55

You'll notice that I included the Jewish conspiracy theory in my list of the racist idiot's remarks.

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 03:31

That Jewish conspiracy quote was deliberately falsified by you or the person from whom you acquired it. The conspiracy he was referring to was a socialist one.

From 1905 Churchill belonged to that small but influential circle of Christian Zionists in Britain and, as Colonial Secretary after World War I, it was he who put into effect the Balfour Declaration, which had promised a Homeland for the Jews in Palestine.

This falsified quote would suggest that your others have been subject to similar misinterpretation.

Charred Phoenix

27th April 2003, 04:01

Actually, we did have troops in Vietnam but they weren't ANZAC troops, they were troops provided independently by Australia and New Zealand. Also, before you call the people supporting ANZAC day imperialist swine, maybe you should look at the history, because as I remember it on ANZAC day the Australian and New Zealand troops deserted after being tricked into fighting for the British. That's right the ANZACs refused to fight for the imperialist, so LL SHUT THE FUCK UP you have no clue what yuo are talking about and any communists who insulted them /READ/ up :D

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 04:05

I'm defending the ANZAC's dickhead.

nz revolution

27th April 2003, 04:11

They also told the Brits to get stuffed in Gallipoli and orchestrated one of the greatest retreats in history, by having water dripping into tin cans which were attatched to pulleys, then the trigger, the can then filled up and fired the gun, with hundreds of these set up the ANZACs were able to retreat. The Turks were none the wiser til the place was deserted.

Red salute to the ANZACs

Charred Phoenix

27th April 2003, 04:36

I'm defending the ANZAC's dickhead.

No, you're misrepresenting them and making them sound like heros of capitalism.

Red salute to the ANZACs

*salutes* :cheesy:

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 04:58

No, you're misrepresenting them and making them sound like heros of capitalism.

I'm making them sound like champion's of democracy.

Charred Phoenix

27th April 2003, 06:36

Well, you make them sound like filthy capitalist swine just through association .

synthesis

27th April 2003, 06:48

That Jewish conspiracy quote was deliberately falsified by you or the person from whom you acquired it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,...,849122,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,849122,00.html)

It's from one of your capitalist rags... which, as every capitalist knows, is infallible.

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 08:23

If you knew your history you would have known that Churchill was a staunch Zionist, and further investigated this bizarre quote.

The full article, Zionism Versus Bolshevism, can be found here (http://www.patriot.dk/churchill.html)

That guardian reporter omitted a very important part of the statement. As you will discover Churchill was referring to a particular group of Jews:

"International Jews.

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus--Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Note also the opening statement of the article:

"SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world."

Harldy sounds like something an anti-semite would say now does it?

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 9:16 am on April 27, 2003)

synthesis

27th April 2003, 09:36

LOL! Now that's a credible source, LL!

You picked what appears to be a Denmark nationalist's site, which on the very first page links to "Holocaust revisionism". READ: HOLOCAUST DENIAL!

Congratulations, Liberty Lover. In your effort to provide a better source than a mainstream, capitalist rag, you linked to a bunch of Nazis.

As you will discover Churchill was referring to a particular group of Jews:

Yeah, the "International Jews." This is exactly what I meant by the "Jewish Control Conspiracy."

By the way, I noticed that the article you provided correlates much better to the quote I provided than the one you did.

Harldy sounds like something an anti-semite would say now does it?

Actually, from exposing myself to such ignorance as Stormfront... it really does.

Anti-semites don't deny that Jews are powerful.

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 12:04

LOL! Now that's a credible source, LL!

You picked what appears to be a Denmark nationalist's site, which on the very first page links to "Holocaust revisionism". READ: HOLOCAUST DENIAL!

Congratulations, Liberty Lover. In your effort to provide a better source than a mainstream, capitalist rag, you linked to a bunch of Nazis.

Err...it's the transcript of the article for the Sunday Herald, shitbrain. If you think they misinterpreted it like the link you provided did then take a look at this:

http://cptwc.matriots.com/jews6.html

Still not convinced?:

http://www.corax.org/revisionism/documents...8churchill.html (http://www.corax.org/revisionism/documents/200208churchill.html)

Want some more?:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCw...Cwrote1920.html (http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html)

http://ajedrez_democratico.tripod.com/Zion...-Bolshevism.htm (http://ajedrez_democratico.tripod.com/Zionism-versus-Bolshevism.htm)

http://www.skrewdriver.net/struggle.html

I think even your simplistic mind should be convinced now.

Maybe you can explain to me how someone who is an anti-semite can also be a Zionist as Churchill was.

synthesis

27th April 2003, 12:17

The funny thing is, LL, you obviously didn't read my post.

Not only did I realize that, but I found it amusing that you claimed that my source (a mainstream newspaper) deliberately falsified the quote while providing your source, which was a Nazi site.

Maybe you can explain to me how someone who is an anti-semite can also be a Zionist as Churchill was.

I would have to say that someone who believes in 'International Jewry' is anti-Semitic.

Liberty Lover

27th April 2003, 12:36

Not only did I realize that, but I found it amusing that you claimed that my source (a mainstream newspaper) deliberately falsified the quote while providing your source, which was a Nazi site.

Are you trying to deny that the guardian article did not misinterpret the statement, despite the fact that it omitted an important part of it?

synthesis

28th April 2003, 00:02

Are you trying to deny that the guardian article did not misinterpret the statement, despite the fact that it omitted an important part of it?

I'm just pointing out how amusing it is that you try to claim that my source misinterprets Churchill's words, and then produce sources such as a Denmark Nazi site, Corax (Holocaust denial site), "Center to Preserve Western Civilization" (Nazi site), David Irving's website (the most famous Holocaust denier around), a CHESS website, and most amusingly, the site of the band Skrewdriver, the most notorious skinhead Nazi band ever.

So, here's what you have. Five Nazi websites and some World Chess Club.

And this is supposed to prove my source, The Guardian is in the wrong how?!

Liberty Lover

28th April 2003, 01:23

You continue to side step the question. I provided you with the full transcript of the article, where I got it from is beside the point. Since this is something to difficult for your intoxicated mind to comprehend, I will show you the article itself:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/churchill.gif

The statement was misinterpreted by the guardian in a similar fashion to the manner in which the Marxist historian, David Abraham, would misinterpret sources in his book The collapse of the Weimar republic. Abraham cited a major German industrialist as writing in a private letter in the early 1930's that it was desirable "to crystallize the bourgeoisie right and the Nazi party into one", this declaration supported his overall argument that capitalism was responsible for the collapse of the Weimar republic. However the original document contained the crucial word "not", so that it actually said the reverse of what Abraham said it did.

The guardian omitted the crucial declaration by Churchill that he was concerned that Jews, because of their widespread oppression, were resorting to bolshevism.

You have yet answer my question about how a Zionist, who helped establish the state of Israel, could also be an anti Semite.

synthesis

28th April 2003, 01:40

You continue to side step the question.

No, I haven't.

I provided you with the full transcript of the article, where I got it from is beside the point. Since this is something to difficult for your intoxicated mind to comprehend,

What's difficult to comprehend is that you're claiming that my source - The Guardian - is falsifying the article, while providing sources that are supposed to qualify as more credible than mine, yet in reality you've provided five Nazi websites and a chess page.

Not to mention the fact that your article-image is nearly impossible to read.

The statement was misinterpreted by the guardian in a similar fashion to the manner in which the Marxist historian, David Abraham, would misinterpret sources in his book The collapse of the Weimar republic.

Do you have a source for any of this? How do I know you're not just re-inventing the words of the industrialist's letter?

You have yet answer my question about how a Zionist, who helped establish the state of Israel, could also be an anti Semite.

Define "anti-Semite" for me, then. I'm generally of the belief that someone who believes in an international Jewish conspiracy is anti-Semitic.

(Edited by DyerMaker at 1:43 am on April 28, 2003)

Liberty Lover

28th April 2003, 02:20

You just don't get it do you. I provided you with numerous unaltered transcripts of Churchill's article. Every single one I have provided is identical; therefore there is no reason to suggest that they were falsified in any way. Here are some more:

http://medlem.spray.se/dominique/luttes/20...8churchill.html (http://medlem.spray.se/dominique/luttes/200208churchill.html)

http://www.seanbryson.com/articles/churchill.html

I have said how and why the guardian misinterpreted (not falsified) the statement. The guardian omitted the crucial declaration by Churchill that he was concerned that Jews, because of their widespread oppression, were resorting to bolshevism rather than Zionism. Explain to me how this is not a misinterpretation.

"Do you have a source for any of this? How do I know you're not just re-inventing the words of the industrialist's letter?"

It was documented in the objectivist Labour historian, Richard Evans', book, In defence of History. Evans was the expert witness on the Lipstadt-Irving libel trial. It was he who proved David Irving to be a Holocaust denier.

"Define "anti-Semite" for me, then. I'm generally of the belief that someone who believes in an international Jewish conspiracy is anti-Semitic."

It's a hatred of the Jewish people, leading to a concerted effort to exterminate them.

Now answer my question. How can an a Zionist, who helped create the state of Israel be an anti-Semite?

synthesis

28th April 2003, 02:50

I provided you with numerous unaltered transcripts of Churchill's article. Every single one I have provided is identical; therefore there is no reason to suggest that they were falsified in any way.

You don't seem to get my point. I really don't care at all if the Guardian is wrong... I just find it very amusing that you claimed that one of your capitalist rags falsified information and then provided a straight list of sites with every reason to potentially falsify Churchill's remarks.

So the Guardian is wrong... what do I care? They're the embodiment of your beliefs. Take it up with them.

[Anti-semitism is] a hatred of the Jewish people, leading to a concerted effort to exterminate them.

Are you trying to deny that anyone who, today, openly attacked an invented International Jewish conspiracy would be considered an anti-Semite?

That's the principle claim of the Stormfronters, man, and they're always considered anti-Semitic.