Log in

View Full Version : CIVILIAN DEATHS IN CHECHNYA



Chiak47
25th April 2003, 18:07
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/chec...ya/history.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/chechnya/history.html)

Less than a decade later, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, who had ordered numerous purges of the communist party, the military and other ethnic groups, decided the Chechens could not be trusted in such a pivotal region.

Accusing the Chechens of being pro-Nazi, Stalin deported nearly all of them — more than 500,000 men, women and children — to Kazakhstan. He also deported the entire population of neighboring Ingushetia. Stalin's deportation orders were carried out on Feb. 23, 1944, a date that remains a touchstone in Chechen history.

The Chechens stayed in Kazakhstan for more than ten years, isolated from the local Kazakhs and resentful of the Soviets. Following Stalin's death in 1953, the Soviets eased their restrictions on the Chechens and Ingush and almost all had begun to return to their homeland by 1957. Although reports vary widely, experts estimate some 200,000 Chechens died during the exile.

Although the Chechens were allowed to return and their limited republic was restored, the Soviets continued to curtail their ability to practice Islam, and many of the region’s mosques were not rebuilt until well into the 1970s.

Ingushetia would later separate from Chechnya to form its own autonomous republic. When Chechnya declared itself independent of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Ingush objected, preferring to keep their ties with Moscow.

Richard Clogg, professor of modern Balkan history at the University of London, wrote in a 1995 article for the Times of London that Russia's moves to limit Islam's religious influence in the region only strengthened the Chechens' beliefs.

"Far from crippling the influence of Islam, as the Soviet authorities hoped, such policies simply drove religion even further underground, and the influence of the Sufi tarikats, or religious brotherhoods, if anything, increased," he writes.

The region once again experienced an uneasy calm during the 1970s and 80s, but as the Soviet Union began to unravel, Chechnya once again made a move towards independence. Like prior attempts, the independence movement would soon devolve into a guerilla war between the Russian army and militant separatists aimed at ending more than 150 years of Russian rule.

:(

Chiak47
25th April 2003, 18:42
I guess no one cares...

If this was Americans in Chechnya-there would be 20 replies right now wishing for the destruction of the states.
All the bleeding hearts would be "drained"

Non-Sectarian Bastard!
25th April 2003, 21:10
Once again I have no idea what your point is.

Stalin=communist, I = communist, so I am a purger?

If you would make a point, something to discus, then someone would give a reply.

You know yourself how many leftists here are anti Stalin.

Exploited Class
26th April 2003, 00:50
Quote: from Chiak47 on 6:42 pm on April 25, 2003
I guess no one cares...

If this was Americans in Chechnya-there would be 20 replies right now wishing for the destruction of the states.
All the bleeding hearts would be "drained"




200,000 huh? That really sucks being displaced liked that, moved from your place and killed. Sounds like Stalin had learned something from the US and the American Indians. Both superpowers are bad.

I am a communist but not a soviet stalin sympathizer.

And how can we call for the destruction of Stalin now? It seems very mute seeing how the Soviet Empire is no longer intact.

And if you look at the political area, many people side with the Chechyns and want Russia out of there.

And to go by some of what the capitalist used with the Chemical weapons debate thread, "It was a different time a different war."

So can't Russia just use that excuse now too?

CubanFox
26th April 2003, 01:39
Stalin sucks. He wasn't a commie. He was a dictator who made his own rules without regard to any particular ideology. Stalin is worse than Hitler.

hazard
26th April 2003, 01:55
chunk:

your reasoning is fallacious. by your own logic, all capitalists are guilty of attempting to purge the monarchy and clergy in the bourgeois revolutions of the eighteenth century. do you remmeber the french revolution? probably not. it was a capitalist(bourgeois) revolution that ended with a massacre via guillotine of the former ruling class.

the massacres of stalin, hough probable, are no worse than the massacres of the capitalists during their revolutionary transitory periods. thats probably why most communists understand that all capitalists and their slave supportes(you) are liars, thieves and hypocrites. you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth without being called one.

nz revolution
26th April 2003, 12:28
I care, and that really sucks.

Chiak47
26th April 2003, 15:10
Friends,

Address the facts...

My family was not here in this country during the slave or Indian days.I traced my roots to the 1500's in Sweden.So my family and over half of Americans population has roots that start in this country at the turn of the century.
I never said "Good Job" ever in a conversation about the dirty business that the early "western" settlers of America did.

I was throwing light on the situation in Chechnya-Something you bleeding hearts forgot about.Hell I can dig up countless threads about massacres in Iraq and Isreal.But not one about the soviet-today invasion of a Muslim country that is being slaughtered daily.

I know people who have fought there.I am really interested in the conflict and I have been since I was a teen.

Now don't get me wrong...The Chechnians are just as brutal as the Russians but clearly they don't want to be liberated.
If the same kind of fighting went on in Iraq I would be the first to stand out against Americans gang raping 6 year olds, torturing,or over all purging a civilian population.There has been 2,000 civilian deaths in Iraq which is tragic no matter how you look at it and too there families I can only hope for the best.I really believe out of a country that is 20,000,000+ that is a small number compared to the amount of land liberated.

Furthermore- if a foreign country invaded California I am willing to bet if California had the military Iraq did in numbers and was not willing to be "liberated" the death rate would be through the roof.On both sides.

It's a grand day to see those Iraqi shi'ites walking the pilgrimage that was forbidden for the past 25 years even though a small handful of Iranian's were in the mix telling America thank you but leave.

I also hope that the Iraqi people truly have the same opportunities that I have been blessed with.I hope that they can agree on a new form of government that will be progressive in the world and will put the people first.

We all can agree that sadamn is a evil character who had no morals to run a day care let alone a country.
It needs to be said.Us Socialists/Communists/Capitalists
need to rise above the pettiness and put the people of the world first.
This back and forth-who killed more-who raped more land is crap.
I will no longer throw around the genocides that happened in the past.I have no right to, I was not there and I do not know the whole story.I will no longer speak of the people that perished like they were numbers only.Each one of them that died was a member of a family and I can not imagine what my life would be like with out my family.

Thank you,
Chunk

Xvall
27th April 2003, 19:19
Cuban Fox, say what you may about Stalin. I do not like him either, but he is not worse than Hitler.

If this was Americans in Chechnya-there would be 20 replies right now wishing for the destruction of the states.

Ineed. Keyword the destruction of the states. The states still exist. Stalin does not. Would you like us to start a DAMN YOU STALIN! thread? I really don't think he cares.

IHP
28th April 2003, 05:31
"If the same kind of fighting went on in Iraq I would be the first to stand out against Americans gang raping 6 year olds, "

I suggest you learn about some of the "incidents" on Okinawa. Its time to stand up against the Americans gang raping there.

--IHP

Chiak47
28th April 2003, 13:26
isolated incident....

ÑóẊîöʼn
28th April 2003, 13:36
What about the raping and sodomising of women and girls by american soldiers in the Vietnam War?