Bush-Hitler comparisons - the height stupidity

[Liberty Lover]

Might I start off by saying that if you have made such a comparison you are an idiot.

This whole assertion is based solely on twisted communist logic that concludes because both Bush and Hitler have moved forces into another country they are identical. Such declarations affirm nothing but your ignorance as to the reasoning behind Hitler’s occupation of Czechoslovakia and the philosophy of Nazism.

Hitler stated in Mein Kampf that history was the record of struggles among races. He believed that the superior Aryan race, centered in Germany, would be the final victor and would rule the world. He believed Germany needed large amounts of territory in which to expand, a need that he would meet by conquering territory and expelling or killing the local populations. Such measures naturally required wars, but not for political or economic objectives. Hitler’s wars were fought to win vast stretches of land on which German settlers would raise large families.

There are no similarities between the doctrine of Hitler and the doctrine of Bush. The branding of GW as a Nazi is not unlike communist governments branding everybody who dared to disagree with them a "fascist", in attempt to justify their execution.

The minds of commie pukes seem to work that way...Anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist no matter what facts are shoved in your face.

[Zombie]

Anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist no matter what facts are shoved in your face.
hey that reminds me of dubya's politics!
get real, Bush is fascist, perhaps you are the idiot after all.

[Liberty Lover]

Zombie,

Fascism is a form of totalitarian dictatorship that seeks to create a viable society by strict regimentation of national and individual lives; conflicting interests are adjusted by total subordination to the service of the state and unquestioning loyalty to its leader.

Provide me with evidence that the American establishment is fascist.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 12:48 pm on April 23, 2003)

[Cassius Clay]

In the 1930's and 1940's Nazi Germany threatened the security of the world in it's blantent disregard of international relations and law. Today the United $tates of America is doing the same. Perhaps the only difference this time is that the world supported Hitler in the 1930's while now the majority of the world (for it's own reasons ofcourse not through any moral obligation) is standing up to America.

[Boris Moskovitz]

I gotta agree... The Bush-Hitler comparison is kinda like total bullshit. Hitler did many horrible things which most of us will remember... Because we are forced to. But for Bush... Ahem... He's just an incompetent president in my idiotic views.

[redstar2000]

I agree with you in one sense, LL, it is rather silly to literally compare a semi-competent bureaucrat who takes fundamentalist christianity seriously with an unusually talented reactionary politician.

But do you really expect fascism as a political phenomenon to take the same forms now as it did in the 1930s?

It seems to me that if you look at the pattern of aggressive wars (Afghanistan, Iraq) and the pattern of totalitarian repression at home (Patriot Act, etc.)...you're starting to get something that looks very much like fascism in a functional sense, even if there are no swastikas or fasces on display.

Did you happen to see the huge patriotic rally & display during half-time at the superbowl this past January? Did the similarity of such spectacles to the Nuremberg rallies occur to you?

I agree also, LL, that communists are very quick to label their enemies "fascists"...it's probably due to the same kind of hyper-sensitivity that makes African-Americans rather expert at detecting racism.

Sometimes, the experts are right.

:cool:

[CubanFox]

"fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control." -Dictionary.com

Though fascism didn't always have racism factored in. Mussolini didn't have a problem with Jews or any other group that I know of. In fact, thousands of Jews were members of good old Benito's facist party.

(Edited by CubanFox at 3:56 pm on April 23, 2003)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 12:47 pm on April 23, 2003
Zombie,

Fascism is a form of totalitarian dictatorship that seeks to create a viable society by strict regimentation of national and individual lives; conflicting interests are adjusted by total subordination to the service of the state and unquestioning loyalty to its leader.

Provide me with evidence that the American establishment is fascist.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 12:48 pm on April 23, 2003)


1933 Hitler comes to power, within the year the visible state supported anti-semetism starts. Soon the jews have to registrer, they are hated and mistrusted by their previous German friends and find themselves living in [b]hugh getto's full[b] of jews.

2001
Bush uses an attack by fighters who were previously CIA backed, within the year the visible state supported anti-semetism starts. Soon the arabic looking people have to registrer, they are hated and mistrusted by their previous American friends and find themselves living in [b]hugh neighbourhood full[b] of other Arabs.

[ComradeRiley]

I see LL hsnt replied to redstar, LL you are a Capitalist prick

[Voice of Reason]

cccp.. with one little difference. the jews never killed 2000 germans in one fell swoop.

BTW..... i think your all missing the point that all this patiotism originated with the people... not with the propoganda. Funny though.... i bet in your view and massive form of patriotism would be considered fascist no matter who was doing it. after all, nations have to be abolished for a truly communist world, right?

[redstar2000]

"After all, nations have to be abolished for a truly communist world, right?"

Yes, that's true in a political/economic/social sense. One could have a huge number of "cultural enclaves" devoted to preserving the memory of nationality...kind of living museums; but the idea that one "nation" is to be preferred above another belongs to capitalism and even pre-capitalism.

We are all members of one species that (presently) live on one planet and have the common need to live in a free, classless society (communism).

With the end of class society comes the end of any rational excuse for preferring one "nation" over another. Nationality will be relegated to the realm of pop culture and fashion...where it may occasionally annoy, but not be able to kill.

This will probably take awhile.

:cool:

[Liberty Lover]

ComradeRiley,

You're an idiot.

redstar2000,

"the pattern of aggressive wars (Afghanistan, Iraq)"

The pattern of Hitler’s wars is incomparable to that of the Bush administrations. The war in Afghanistan was a retaliatory strike against a terrorist network that had killed 3, 000 Americans and would have killed many more had the US done nothing. I’m not even going to bother expressing my opinion regarding the Iraq war.

"the pattern of totalitarian repression at home (Patriot Act, etc.)"

The patriot act is more comparable to the restrictions placed on the freedoms of citizens in Britain while they were at war with the Nazi's. The act was not designed to increase the power of the state but to prevent terrorism.

[redstar2000]

Yes, LL, and the invasion of Poland by the Nazis was in "retaliation" for "Polish aggression." And the "Enabling Act" of 1933 that created the formal mechanism of Nazi tyranny was passed in order to "fight terrorism".

Shit, LL, you're not even trying to see past the rhetoric of the "new and improved" version of fascism.

Why don't you quit pretending to think about this stuff and just say "I believe whatever the authorities tell me."

And then, of course, change your username to something more fitting...Tyranny Lover for example.

:cool:

[ComradeRiley]

redstar you just kicked LL's fascist arse
its clear that you have a far greater knowledge than him

nice one

[Liberty Lover]

redstar2000,

Polish agression: Hitler dressing Germans up in Polish uniforms to create the impression that Poland had invaded.

Al Qaeda agression: The murdering of 3, 000 innocent American civilians.

There is a disticnt difference between "Polish aggression" and Al Qaeda aggression.

If America took a strong stand against Osama Bin Laden and other terrorists when he..

Bombed the WTC the first time

Killed US troops in Somalia and dragged their naked bodies through the streets

Bombed US Embassies Tanzania and Kenya

Bombed the USS Cole

Slaughtered tourists in Egypt

then the events of 9/11 would not have occured. The invasion of Afghanistan, that should have taken place much earlier, was aimed at ensuring the list of Al Qaeda terrorist acts did not grow.

ComradeRiley,

You're an idiot

[Zombie]

The invasion of Afghanistan, that should have taken place much earlier, was aimed at ensuring the list of Al Qaeda terrorist acts did not grow.
of course! it didn't have anything to do with something called 'oil pipeline'!! why didn't i think of that!


(Edited by Zombie at 10:58 pm on April 23, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

Another enlightened post by Zombie.

[CubanFox]

I always thought it was Aidid's family militia who killed the US troops in Mogadishu then dragged them around in the streets.

[Zombie]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 10:42 pm on April 23, 2003
Another enlightened post by Zombie.

thx LL, i knew your brain would start to work at some point.

[synthesis]

Another enlightened post by Zombie.

Actually, it was. One of the ideals of the Enlightenment was seeing past propaganda and educating yourself, something which you have proven to be completely incapable of.

http://www.newhumanist.com/oil.html
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...52/b3763127.htm (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_52/b3763127.htm)
http://www.rense.com/general15/game.htm

[Liberty Lover]

Simply because America is getting oil from Afghanistan does not mean they invaded for that purpose.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 6:45 am on April 24, 2003)

[Boris Moskovitz]

It is because of 9/11, right? Hah...

The Americans were in Saudi Arabia, and stayed there, so, Bin Laden was frustrated, and wanted to be a violent little kid, so he decided to attack the USA, thus, making an ennemy out of them. But then, the good Americans, were bombed by the evil forces of terror of the Dark Lord Osama Bin Laden. The Bombing Angel, George Bush the Cheap Hammer, decided to strike in the fortress of evil of the evil Dark Lord Osama Bin Laden. But the Lord of Darkness had to get help from the Evil Lord of a "society" (XD) called Al-Quaida. Now, the forces of Heavens are fighting the evil Muslims... er, terrorists in the Dark Land of Afghanistan, where the Dark Lord, Osama Bin Laden lies...

Er... and in the end, the good American bombers once again won against the forces of evil... Is that it?

But really, don't think that the invasion of Afghanistan, or Iraq, or the Middle-East will stop terrorism. I think it will make it even worse. More people are begining to turn against America, you know? ;)

Even if you wipe out what you call "evil", it will come back in another form.

[synthesis]

Simply because America are getting oil from Afghanistan does not mean that they invaded for that purpose.

So define for me, in your own words, why America invaded Afghanistan.

[Liberty Lover]

DyerMaker,

To eliminate the Al Qaeda terrorist network. Simple.

[synthesis]

To eliminate the Al Qaeda terrorist network.

And why was this necessary again?

[Liberty Lover]

DyerMaker,

I said why earlier:

If America took a strong stand against Osama Bin Laden and other terrorists when he...

Bombed the WTC the first time

Killed US troops in Somalia and dragged their naked bodies through the streets

Bombed US Embassies Tanzania and Kenya

Bombed the USS Cole

Slaughtered tourists in Egypt

...then the events of 9/11 would not have occured. The invasion of Afghanistan, that should have taken place much earlier, was aimed at ensuring the list of Al Qaeda terrorist acts did not grow.

[synthesis]

But the idea that the war on Afghanistan was triggered solely by the terrorist attacks couldn't be true if the U.S. implicitly let the attacks happen, could it?



http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/...11_02_lucy.html (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html)

[synthesis]

And the idea that the 9/11 attack was simply the last straw of a long line of terrorist attacks causing a fed-up America to declare war on Afghanistan couldn't be true if most of the terrorist attacks occured while bin Laden was our ally, could it?

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column70a.html

(Edited by DyerMaker at 7:23 am on April 24, 2003)

[ComradeRiley]

Everyone knows deep down that the yanks are just after oil, did you know Venezuela gives cuba cheap oil (bet that pisses bush right off, LOL)

[Liberty Lover]

DyerMaker,

So you think America went into Afghanistan for oil...because those two sites said so. Well done genius.

[Fidelbrand]

Quote: He believed Germany needed large amounts of territory in which to expand, a need that he would meet by conquering territory and expelling or killing the local populations.

This makes him similar to Hitler where he invades other peoples' lands and sloganing " I will bring them peace and freedom" .. but in his heart he destestes the middle-east ppl and wants oil of IRAQ to masturbate his doggie~

P.S. Remeber to see his ignorantly pukingly selfish face when he says the " " !

[Liberty Lover]

But Hitler never said he would "bring them peace and freedom." He made it quiet clear what races he thought deserved freedom and life. Poles and Slavs were not amongst them.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 7:23 am on April 26, 2003)

[hazard]

lover:

"the height stupidity"

what does height have to do with stupid? what, because bush is taller than hitler you cannot make comparisons? don't be so stupid, lover. height has nothing to do with these comparisons.

[Liberty Lover]

It was an obvious typographical error. I meant to write "The height of stupidity."

[hazard]

i see

that makes a certain amount of sense. i guess

[IHP]

you know how everyone writes LOL. I did actually laygh out loud then.

--IHP

[Liberty Lover]

What does "laygh" mean?

[Umoja]

I'm still pretty hesistant to believe Al-Qaeda did 9-11, since their is some doubt in my mind.

[Blibblob]

What does "laygh" mean?
I think he meant laugh.


But Hitler never said he would "bring them peace and freedom." He made it quiet clear what races he thought deserved freedom and life. Poles and Slavs were not amongst them.
Then you are obviously forgetting something from history class. Hitler invaded to bring the aryans in those countries back into Germany. He first invaded the countries they lost in WW1 first. I guess you can say Afghanistan and Iraq are Austria and Czechslovakia. We haven't reached Poland it seems.(that was quite stupid...)


I'm still pretty hesistant to believe Al-Qaeda did 9-11, since their is some doubt in my mind.
I have very little doubt that Al-Qaeda commited the act, but I also have very little doubt that the US facilitated them to attack in the first place.

(Edited by Blibblob at 11:55 am on April 26, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

Then you are obviously forgetting something from history class. Hitler invaded to bring the aryans in those countries back into Germany. He first invaded the countries they lost in WW1 first.

Incorrect. Hitler denounced as hopelessly stupid those German political parties and movements that wanted to reverse the 1919 Treaty of Versailles and reclaim what Germany had then lost. Instead, Hitler argued that Germany needed large amounts of territory in which to expand the Aryan race, a need that he would meet by conquering territory and expelling or killing the local populations.

[Chedolf]

It is irrefutable that WW2, the Holocaust, etc. were induced by Hitler’s ultimate desire for Lebensraum. However, David Irving himself wouldn’t have the knee-jerk limousine leftist audacity to deny something as concrete as the 1938 policy of appeasement. To contend Hitler had no underlying objective to restore what Germany had lost in the Versailles Treaty is as daft as to contend Hitler’s aptitude for writing adroit prose. Though not ends in themselves, scraping the treaty, Anschluss, ridding Jews of their Citizenship were all concomitant objectives of the NSDAP.

Hitler is most comparable to Che; they both use empty rhetoric and enormous leaps in logic to prey on the fraught, un-educated and weak. Both are communists at heart who condone the use of mass genocide, rape, terror etc. to rid a state of politcal opposition. Both fought a battle they were ill-fit to fight...and lost! In the right light, Che even resembles Eva slightly...minus the teen-stache.

Does Che rhyme with gay?













(Edited by Chedolf at 1:43 am on April 27, 2003)

[synthesis]

Hitler is most comparable to Che; they both use empty rhetoric and enormous leaps in logic to prey on the fraught, un-educated and weak.

What?

How, may I ask, did Che do this?

Both are communists at heart who condone the use of mass genocide, rape, terror etc. to rid a state of politcal opposition.

“We stand for the maintenance of private property... We shall protect free enterprise as the most expedient, or rather the sole possible economic order.”

— Adolf Hitler

Some communist.

And when did Che ever condone mass rape?

Both fought a battle they were ill-fit to fight...and lost!

Uh, the Cuban Revolution succeeded. It's succeeding to this day, despite forty years of American-created bombings, terrorist attacks, embargoes, isolation, assassinations, and full-scale military invasions.




Funny, "Chedolf"... you condemn Hitler (and Che, unfoundedly) for empty rhetoric and leaps in logic, yet you are quite clearly guilty of the same.

You also claim that Hitler (and Che, wholeheartedly unfounded as I have proved) "fought a battle they were ill fit to fight, and lost"... this seems a rather apt description of you, as well.

Welcome, comrade. Prepare to be schooled. :biggrin:

[Chedolf]

Who is this Michael Moron?

For a hundred points define “sarcasm.”

[hazard]

as far as comparing bush to hitler, I see it as a stretch. as a political tool, it is an effective, if rhetorical, move to make. in any case, Bush has endorsed some policies which help to stall the tidal wave of genocide on the domestic front as it relates to infanticide. on the other hand, Bush's foreign policy of american supremacy is inidicative of other problems. he's okay on some fronts, horrible on others.

still think he's way better than that fruitcake gore. like the three stooge's, right? curley was clearly the best of the bunch.

[Liberty Lover]

"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."

--Che Guevara, Message to the Tricontinental 1967

[guerrillache]

i see bush as a facist... and even if he isnt hes a redneck oil loving terrorist :angry: