Quebec

[cmbnd10]

....because you have probably talked about nearly every independence issue other than this... I am obviously biased, but I would love to see it and I think it would be a bit of a boost for leftism in North America if it happened. Thoughts?

[Revy]

I support it simply because after independence they could finally move past the issue and socialists might be able to present themselves more without having to get involved in that touchy debate.

[Revulero]

I really dont know much about quebec but when i visited montreal during the summer i noticed the majority of the quebecois were very patriotic and had quebec flags instead of canadian flags hanging at their houses. If im not mistaking they have a political party called the bloc quebecois which supposedly has seperatist who want the quebecois culture to be dominant.

[cmbnd10]

I really dont know much about quebec but when i visited montreal during the summer i noticed the majority of the quebecois were very patriotic and had quebec flags instead of canadian flags hanging at their houses. If im not mistaking they have a political party called the bloc quebecois which supposedly has seperatist who want the quebecois culture to be dominant.

Yes, the Bloc Quebecois is the separatist party on the national level. The Parti Quebecois is on the local level.

Yes, Canadian culture is slowly squeezing out Quebec's, but they are trying to preserve it.

[Revy]

Canada doesn't seem to have a really prominent socialist left. I mean... besides the social democrats and Stalinists. Where's the inbetween....

[cmbnd10]

Canada doesn't seem to have a really prominent socialist left. I mean... besides the social democrats and Stalinists. Where's the inbetween....

I know that many in Quebec are leftists (they have kept close with French Politics).

Not only for them to be free for ideological reasons, but to have Quebec separate is taking them away from the crown. Weakening monarchy is always good.

[Revy]

I know that many in Quebec are leftists (they have kept close with French Politics).

Not only for them to be free for ideological reasons, but to have Quebec separate is taking them away from the crown. Weakening monarchy is always good.

I remember when I wanted to move to Canada a few years ago (I didn't, but I was thinking about it). I was really annoyed by the idea that I'd have to swear allegiance to the Queen. :rolleyes:

[cmbnd10]

I remember when I wanted to move to Canada a few years ago (I didn't, but I was thinking about it). I was really annoyed by the idea that I'd have to swear allegiance to the Queen. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's rough. But I still think its a bit laughable that the whole country still allows having the Queen as head of state.

[Kukulofori]

Anyone care to shed some light on what exactly it is that they want to do after they secede?

[Trystan]

I really don't see what difference it would make.

[S&Y]

No

The Quebecois bourgeoisie has used the independence issue in order to divert the workers movement.

Back in 1972 there was a common front general strike. Millions were in the streets and they were very militant almost like France 1968 .

Unfortunately the leaders betrayed the movement and there was a combination of factors that led people "back to work". The general strike lasted for a month though.

After that there was a "revolutionary distress" . The air smelled like a second uprising.
It was then that the sovereignity issue came up , ficticiously by the bourgeoisie.

The workers movement was successfully diverted. Anglophone workers went against Francophone workers, pro-independence workers went against anti-independence workers.


As leftists we should carry the message of the imposibility to be independent under capitalism.
Also the message of the unification of the Canadian working class against capitalism.

And the message that if Quebec wants to be independent that would happen in a post capitalist society and it would democraticaly be decided by the workers themselves.

That being said I am not biased as I am not Canadian.

[Charles Xavier]

Quebec should have full national rights, but as it stands right now it is a petty-bourgeoisie movement for separation not a workers movement. Quebec should have sovereignity within Canada.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Quebec should have full national rights, but as it stands right now it is a petty-bourgeoisie movement for separation not a workers movement. Quebec should have sovereignity within Canada.

I agree.

Canada first needs sovereignty from the U.S. first.

[cmbnd10]

Quebec should have full national rights, but as it stands right now it is a petty-bourgeoisie movement for separation not a workers movement. Quebec should have sovereignity within Canada.

Why is it a petty-bourgeoisie movement? There has been an uproar from much of the population for years of not wanting to be a part of Canada. It is political, it is ethnic, it is cultural.

[Agrippa]

The workers movement was successfully diverted. Anglophone workers went against Francophone workers

This is a popular Marxist line but it only illuminates half of the truth. Marxists say "racism serves to divide black workers against white workers and white workers against black workers" (or take your pick of any other ethnic conflict, such as Anglophones and Francophones in this case) and end their analysis at that. While it's certainly true, it fails to ignore that these ethnic conflicts are all rooted in hundreds of years of colonialism. Oppressed ethnicities have to live with their culture being degraded and declared worthless by the media, intelligentsia, educational system, and religious organizations of the society that colonizes them, as well as having to deal with a deeply-rooted pathological hatred and prejudice among the general public of the "settler" ethnicity induced by decades of brainwashing.

While you are correct in that independence will only come from a post-capitalist society, many Marxists invision "post-capitalist society" as a homogenous, almost eschatalogical, instantanious and simultanious global transormation, usually issued in by the completion of a "revolutionary" totalitarian, technocratic infastructure. A much more realistic expectation is for reigons to successfully assert their autonomy as people exploit the destablization of capitalist society. In this case, people who actually want to support something constructive should rally behind the liberation of oppressed nations, not the false "liberation" of neo-colonial states, new Marxist-Leninist regimes, government programs of appeasement and PC whitewashing, but the real liberation of autonomous libertarain societies arising from the organic spontanaity of human relations.

[Lynx]

The poll needs a third option: Ask us later
The sovereignty question in Quebec is currently dormant.

[Sam_b]

Its not our place to vote on this, really.

The people of Quebec have a right to self-determination if they want it. There is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' here

[spice756]

I'm in Canada and I vote no.By allowing Quebec to be independent the country will be bad economically and it divides people and resources.

People need to work to gather than start splitting this country into 2 or 3.This not the same has imperialism.



I really dont know much about quebec but when i visited montreal during the summer i noticed the majority of the quebecois were very patriotic and had quebec flags instead of canadian flags


I don't understand why would people in Quebec want to divides people and resources? If they think it is bad economically now for them this will just make it worse.

[Magic Snowman]

I agree whole-heartedly with S&Y.

The sovereignist movement is in no way a step towards socialism. Indeed it is complete distraction from class issues. It divides workers and leads to politics being dominated by class-colaberational Federalist and Nationalist formations. The only way forward is to cut across the national divide on a class basis.

Marxists should recognize that real independence can never be achieved through bourgeois sovereignty. Canada is a sovereign state, but is it truly independent of the US? (Or rather, the US ruling class?)

I think James Connelly may have said it best:

“Even if you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the Green Flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the socialist republic, your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule through her capitalists, her landlords, financiers, and through the whole array of commercial and industrial institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs. England would still rule you to your ruin, even while your lips offered hypocritical homage at the shrine of that freedom whose cause you betrayed."

[cmbnd10]

Its not our place to vote on this, really.

The people of Quebec have a right to self-determination if they want it. There is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' here

It's more of a "what do you think and do you support it" question.

[Revy]

Then what of Puerto Rico? Scotland? or any other independence movement with many socialist followers. Most of the Puerto Rican socialist movement is pro-independence. And there's the Scottish Socialist Party.

I think if there is a movement for independence explicitly socialist in nature, it is okay to support it.

[cmbnd10]

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html

The ICL is in support of Quebec independence.

I have spoken to the Parti Communiste du Quebec (PCQ) in the past and they do support the sovereignty cause.

I don't see it as a bad thing for socialism in North America. Quebec is known for its leftist attitude and being independent could see the possibilities for real change for North American Socialism.

[S&Y]

(http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html)http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html)

The ICL is in support of Quebec independence.

I have spoken to the Parti Communiste du Quebec (PCQ) in the past and they do support the sovereignty cause.

I don't see it as a bad thing for socialism in North America. Quebec is known for its leftist attitude and being independent could see the possibilities for real change for North American Socialism.


While you seem completely ignorant to proletarian internationalism and Leninism, you seem to have skipped my post as well as Magic Snowman's .

While it is clear we are right and you are just sprouting bullshit.

Sorry if I come about to aggressive:lol:

[Bear MacMillan]

No.
As many other members have stated in this thread already, the Quebec sovereigntist movement distracts workers from the fact that the capitalists are the ones who control them, not the Anglophones.

Supporting sovereigntist movements like this only seperates the working class from each other along linguistic, cultural, historical etc. lines instead of making them realise that their common enemy is capitalism and the bourgeoisie.

For members who may not be familiar with the issue, Quebec sovereignty is the belief that the province of Quebec should be it's own nation because the French colonised Quebec but lost it to the British 200 years ago. Quebec sovereigntism says that the English run the show, but fails to recognise that an exploiter is an exploiter regardless of what language they speak.

Also, I would like to hear any other member's opinion on Quebec Seperatism.

[Sam_b]

It's more of a "what do you think and do you support it" question.

I think its up to the Quebec people.

[ROM]

I would like to see Chicago Il. USA become seperatists. That way they would not be able to gouge the rest of the State of Illinois with taxes and be forced to pay thier
thier own way. They are the most corrupt capitalistic exploiters in the entire EARTH.:thumbup1:

[Charles Xavier]

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html

The ICL is in support of Quebec independence.

I have spoken to the Parti Communiste du Quebec (PCQ) in the past and they do support the sovereignty cause.

I don't see it as a bad thing for socialism in North America. Quebec is known for its leftist attitude and being independent could see the possibilities for real change for North American Socialism.


The Parti Communiste du Quebec is a name claimed by both the true Communist party of Quebec and also of a ultra-left nationalist clique which split from the party.

The real Parti Communiste du Quebec, and the Communist party of Canada support full national sovereign rights for Quebec, up to and including separation, however they do not support separation under the current conditions because a multi-national republic including first nations is still a possibility under a new People's Constitution.

Support for separation is up to the people which inhabit the Nation of Quebec and not anyone else.

Under current conditions, the division of Quebec from Canada would be disastrous for both the working class in English Canada and Quebec, it would allow foreign take over of the economy while creating bitter ethnic divisions between English and French Canada.

[Bear MacMillan]

I think if there is a movement for independence explicitly socialist in nature, it is okay to support it.

While the Quebec sovereigntist movement may have some self proclaimed socialists, a majority of Quebec sovereigntists are rabidly nationalistic and want to restrict immigration from non-french speaking countries and many on the fringe of the movement are compairable to Britain's BNP. Many racists in Quebec use the sovereigntism movement as an outlet for their hate, mostly saying foreign cultures are incompatable with "Quebecois" culture.

For example, I live in a neigborhood with many Algerian immigrants, who often tell me they are verbally abused for being Arab by Quebec sovereigntists despite the fact that french is their mother language.

[cmbnd10]

[url="http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/888/quebec.html"]


While you seem completely ignorant to proletarian internationalism and Leninism, you seem to have skipped my post as well as Magic Snowman's .

While it is clear we are right and you are just sprouting bullshit.

Sorry if I come about to aggressive:lol:

I didn't skip your post. I read both of them. I just think that leftism is stronger in Quebec and that if they became sovereign they could lead the way for leftism in North America. Not saying it will happen, but they would be more progressive (in my opinion) than Canada or the USA.

I am not sprouting bullshit, I just can't stand the fact that Quebec is a part of Canada. It is ludicrous. A Francophone people living under the Queen? That is so incredibly ridiculous.

[cmbnd10]

While the Quebec sovereigntist movement may have some self proclaimed socialists, a majority of Quebec sovereigntists are rabidly nationalistic and want to restrict immigration from non-french speaking countries and many on the fringe of the movement are compairable to Britain's BNP. Many racists in Quebec use the sovereigntism movement as an outlet for their hate, mostly saying foreign cultures are incompatable with "Quebecois" culture.

For example, I live in a neigborhood with many Algerian immigrants, who often tell me they are verbally abused for being Arab by Quebec sovereigntists despite the fact that french is their mother language.

They are NOTHING like the BNP. Granted there are people who want a French-only state. But it is not the majority. I can see the majority wanting a French-Speaking independent state, but for you to put all of the far-right nationalist nuts in with the rest of those hopeful of sovereignty is weak.

[Charles Xavier]

I'm not wanting to live under the queen as much as the next guy, I'm sure Jamacians, Irish, Scottish, Brittish, Australian, New Zealand, Iroquoians, Cree, Black Foot, Metis people feel feel the same way. And Quebec is hardly that left-wing nor is currently the cause for Seperation. Nationalism is not something supported by Communists, the right-to-self determination is.

[cmbnd10]

I'm not wanting to live under the queen as much as the next guy. And Quebec is hardly that left-wing. Nationalism is not something supported by Communists, the right-to-self determination is.


Nationalism is not something supported by Communists, that is 100% correct. But supporting the right to self determination, wouldn't you say that if these people want to be separated from Canada is a noble cause and could possibly be something positive for the left in the future?

[Charles Xavier]

Nationalism is not something supported by Communists, that is 100% correct. But supporting the right to self determination, wouldn't you say that if these people want to be separated from Canada is a noble cause and could possibly be something positive for the left in the future?
No, If Quebec wanted to separate from Canada, which I support the right for the nation to do so, currently it would not be beneficial for the Working Class of any nation.

And What of the Native people? What right do they have to seperate from Quebec and Canada? The Iroquois share a border with New York, Quebec and Ontario, will their national rights be supported? What about the Acadians?


What Canada needs is to Abolish the Senate and replace it with an Assembly of Nations within Canada, with full national rights and veto power.

[Raúl Duke]

Most of the Puerto Rican socialist movement is pro-independence.

It's my understanding that all of the socialists groups are pro-independence.
Although, it may have to do with the fact that once independent it would be easier to institute social reforms/socialism/etc (if they wanted) then under the U.S. and also for anti-imperialist purposes/line. Whether it's the same as the Quebec situation I doubt...Puerto Ricans have no say on national political matters (no representative/senator/do not vote for president-vicepresident) unless they move to the U.S.

[jake williams]

I'm completely in love with Quebec and if it left this country would be total shit(er - seriously I just got back from a CPC election party and I want to die right now). It's pretty much the only good part of the country.

I'm certainly sympathetic to Quebec nationalists though. You know, in some ways they're victims of internal oppression within a colonialist state, I've made the analogy with the Boers in South Africa, except not, because despite the story Quebecois aren't really violent xenophobes, and the Boers make me fucking sick.

But they're also victims of economic and cultural oppression right now. If we were to have separation - which I very much don't want - it would have to occur through some sort of revolutionary action or it would just be a waste of time, it wouldn't mean anything.

[spice756]

Under current conditions, the division of Quebec from Canada would be disastrous for both the working class in English Canada and Quebec, it would allow foreign take over of the economy while creating bitter ethnic divisions between English and French Canada.


That is what I mean but the poster who started this thread does not understand this.



Puerto Ricans have no say on national political matters (no representative/senator/do not vote for president-vicepresident) unless they move to the U.S


Where are you getting this? The people in Puerto Rico can have their own elections and laws.Not to say they can have their own government.

[cmbnd10]

That is what I mean but the poster who started this thread does not understand this.

It isn't that I don't understand it, it is that it is wrong. There already is a huge divide between Anglophones and Francophones in Quebec. Do your fucking homework.

It would not mean foreign takeover of the economy, I don't even understand why anyone would say that.

And who is to say it would create bitter divisions between the working class? They aren't even supposed to be the same country. The fucking Brits beat the shit out of Quebecois and claimed it as their own. It is a miracle that Quebec's French culture has survived, albeit in shambles because of what Canada has done to them.

[spice756]

It isn't that I don't understand it, it is that it is wrong. There already is a huge divide between Anglophones and Francophones in Quebec. Do your fucking homework.


So you want a poor country? If you think your are poor now do to the english you are really going be poor by your self.

[cmbnd10]

So you want a poor country? If you think your are poor now do to the english you are really going be poor by your self.

Quebec will be fine. Every new nation has trouble at first but Quebec is mostly self sustaining. Hydro Quebec is the world's largest hydro-electricity producer and like all new nations, there will be countries that recognize them and help them out.

And next time, please check your spelling. I had quite the difficult time trying to dissect your second sentence.


EDIT: Bloc Quebecois just won 50 out of a possible 75 seats in the House of Commons.

[spice756]

EDIT: Bloc Quebecois just won 50 out of a possible 75 seats in the House of Commons


What does this mean? What is the number of seats they need?



EDIT: Bloc Quebecois just won 50 out of a possible 75 seats in the House of Commons


That was a reply on Puerto Rico .

[spice756]

Quebec will be fine. Every new nation has trouble at first but Quebec is mostly self sustaining.


I thought the problem is they pay high taxes and the federal government gives them very little ??

[cmbnd10]

What does this mean? What is the number of seats they need?


I don't know if there is a specific number of seats that they need. They can acheive a possible 75. Getting 50 is a huge number and looks very good for the party. 75 seats are the seats that can be won in Quebec. So the Bloc won 50, the Tories won 10 and the rest are spread around. Quebec prevents Harper from having a majority. The Bloc is a huge thorn in the side of the parliament, and they aren't going away.

[Bear MacMillan]

Quebec will be fine. Every new nation has trouble at first but Quebec is mostly self sustaining. Hydro Quebec is the world's largest hydro-electricity producer and like all new nations, there will be countries that recognize them and help them out.

And next time, please check your spelling. I had quite the difficult time trying to dissect your second sentence.


EDIT: Bloc Quebecois just won 50 out of a possible 75 seats in the House of Commons.

Something you forgot is that Quebec's major hydroelectricity centers are located on First Nations Cree territory;)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/02/07/cree020407.html

If Quebec gains sovereignty, what's stopping the Cree from doing the same? And who's to stop the Cree from taking Hydroelectric centers on their land with them?

And why are you bringing up the Bloc Quebecois anyways? The Bloc Québécois is tied hand and foot to that other party of business: the

Parti Québécois, who were responsible for attacks on health care, education and workers’ standards of living when they were in power.

[Dust Bunnies]

Please note I am not Canadian, so I cannot relate in anyway, but I will put in my two cents anyway.

I believe Quebec deserve independence. Maybe if we're lucky Canada will throw off the Queen altogether and unite with Quebec. ;)

[Revy]

Well I think the anti-independence people here have made some good arguments. Puerto Rico is different because a lot of the independentistas are socialist while that is less defined with Quebec. Puerto Rico also has a historical justification because they were colonized by the U.S. Puerto Rico also doesn't have much control over itself. Quebec being independent won't create the impetus for socialist change, all we will see is another bourgeois state. The same would happen with Puerto Rico but, since much of the movement for independence is socialist (except for the PIP) this makes it much more worthy of support.

[ashaman1324]

if the quebecians(sp?) want to be independant let them. if theyve gained the majority in their parliament then it should give the rest of us a hint that they want to be independant. so i support their independance.

[Raúl Duke]

Where are you getting this? The people in Puerto Rico can have their own elections and laws.Not to say they can have their own government.From personal experience...I was raised there and my Puerto Rican history class.

We have our own government...subjected under the U.S. government.
We can vote for governor, representatives of our municipalities, and maybe on local laws (as long as they don't infringe on the federal laws) but we have no say on national (U.S. wide/federal) politics (U.S. president, congress, etc) nor on foreign policy.

If we did have our own foreign policy no Puerto Rican would be subjected to go to Iraq/Afghanistan for the Americans and we would have repudiated the U.S. embargo against Cuba. Our trade is also subjected to the whims of the U.S. We can't receive foreign goods unless they come from/through the U.S. first.(i.e. all the freight ships are U.S. shipping companies...none are foriegn. In the U.S. I see shipping containers from Germany, China, etc.)

Quebec independence movement is not so similar to the Puerto Rican one...I heard that the Quebecois can vote for their prime minister and other things on the federal/national level.

[fredbergen]

http://www.internationalist.org/electionscan0810eng.html
http://www.internationalist.org/electionscan0810fr.html

The Trotskyists call for an independent workers Quebec. It is not surprising to see the anglo-chauvinist Grantite social-democrats united with the stalinist maple-leaf "communists" who openly support Canadian imperialism, both united against the right of the Quebecois to self-determination.

[Charles Xavier]

http://www.internationalist.org/electionscan0810eng.html
http://www.internationalist.org/electionscan0810fr.html

The Trotskyists call for an independent workers Quebec. It is not surprising to see the anglo-chauvinist Grantite social-democrats united with the stalinist maple-leaf "communists" who openly support Canadian imperialism, both united against the right of the Quebecois to self-determination.

These people may claim to be trotskyists but even Trotsky subscribed to Lenin's program on the National Question.

They are misguided, the class struggle is the primary focus of Leftists, we will never overtake the tyranny of the Monarchy and Capitalist state divided. Workers in all nations should unite. While we communists support Quebec's right to separate, we know separating under current conditions would be a disastrous move to the working class of all the nations in Canada.

Separation under capitalism anyways? You get a flag, but everything is still controlled by the same masters.

What you'll get is pogroms after pogroms.

[Andropov]

I support the people of Quebecs right to self determination.
It is the Lefts job to harness the popular support for Independance and make the cause their own.
Do not let its popularity be hyjacked by Bourgoise interests.

[Charles Xavier]

I support the people of Quebecs right to self determination.
It is the Lefts job to harness the popular support for Independance and make the cause their own.
Do not let its popularity be hyjacked by Bourgoise interests.

That is completely an opportunist position.

[Andropov]

That is completely an opportunist position.
Worked for James Connolly.

[Charles Xavier]

Worked for James Connolly.

Different circumstances completely, in Ireland, it was colonial oppression, all the labor, raw resources and land was taken by the British and not back to the people of Ireland. Which is why the Irish Bourgeoisie united with the workers for Independence until it could strike a deal with the British for the Free State. In Quebec, workers are at a labour aristocratic position where they benefit off the exploitation of the "third" world their bourgeioisie are in control of the land and resources, there is laws benefiting the Quebec nation, (while national rights are not there). Further workers of Quebec have a common struggle with workers all across Canada. Do not forget that a lot of Quebec's territory is first nations land. What about their national rights?

[Andropov]

Different circumstances completely, in Ireland, it was colonial oppression, all the labor, raw resources and land was taken by the British and not back to the people of Ireland. Which is why the Irish Bourgeoisie united with the workers for Independence until it could strike a deal with the British for the Free State. In Quebec, workers are at a labour aristocratic position where they benefit off the exploitation of the "third" world their bourgeioisie are in control of the land and resources, there is laws benefiting the Quebec nation, (while national rights are not there). Further workers of Quebec have a common struggle with workers all across Canada. Do not forget that a lot of Quebec's territory is first nations land. What about their national rights?

Wrong.
When the Penal laws were retracted in Ireland that was when there was the rise of the Catholic Middle class.
These grew into the bourgoise of Ireland who profited from Englands occupation and colonialism of the country.
They benefited from the economic ties with Britain which is why Connolly saw the only true inheritors of the mantle of Irish freedom, was for the Irish Working Class.
Irregaurdless of the benefits of the Irish Bourgoise he still recognised the expolitative nature of Imperialism.
The case of Quebec is similar, though with certain differences as you have pointed out with the rise of the labour aristocracy.
But none the less is still held in Union with the rest of Canada against the wishes of the Quebec People.
This is but another guise of Imperialism and I support any peoples right to self determination.
Granted we in the western world are profiting from labours of the third world and the subtle corprate imperialism but that does not in any way diminish the rights of the Quebec people to self determination.
If the situation of Quebec is not resolved by the Quebec Peoples will there will only be greater antigonism between Quebec people and Canadians as a whole.
The national question will be at the fore front of their minds and resentment and division will only occur between the rest of Canadas working class and the Quebec working class.

[Charles Xavier]

Wrong.
When the Penal laws were retracted in Ireland that was when there was the rise of the Catholic Middle class.
These grew into the bourgoise of Ireland who profited from Englands occupation and colonialism of the country.
They benefited from the economic ties with Britain which is why Connolly saw the only true inheritors of the mantle of Irish freedom, was for the Irish Working Class.
Irregaurdless of the benefits of the Irish Bourgoise he still recognised the expolitative nature of Imperialism.
The case of Quebec is similar, though with certain differences as you have pointed out with the rise of the labour aristocracy.
But none the less is still held in Union with the rest of Canada against the wishes of the Quebec People.
This is but another guise of Imperialism and I support any peoples right to self determination.
Granted we in the western world are profiting from labours of the third world and the subtle corprate imperialism but that does not in any way diminish the rights of the Quebec people to self determination.
If the situation of Quebec is not resolved by the Quebec Peoples will there will only be greater antigonism between Quebec people and Canadians as a whole.
The national question will be at the fore front of their minds and resentment and division will only occur between the rest of Canadas working class and the Quebec working class.


The National Question has already been answered twice before by the working people of Quebec. If its against the wishes of the Quebecois people to live in Canada, how come twice the Quebec people voted against separation in a referendum?

The question of separation cannot be properly dealt with under Capitalism. For they may get political separation but their economy will still be foreign owned and still exploited just the same as previously. Workers of all the nations of Canada need to united against our common enemy. Class struggle is the primary focus of leftists, we communists support the right to succession but not succession. First nations own the majority of the land of Quebec, why aren't you secessionists supporting their land claims?

The National question can be solved within Canada, national rights are not there right now, but it can be.

Leftists also support the right for both sides within a marriage the right to divorce but we don't support people going out and getting divorced.

All the nations of Canada can work out their differences.

[Andropov]

The National Question has already been answered twice before by the working people of Quebec. If its against the wishes of the Quebecois people to live in Canada, how come twice the Quebec people voted against separation in a referendum?

The question of separation cannot be properly dealt with under Capitalism. For they may get political separation but their economy will still be foreign owned and still exploited just the same as previously. Workers of all the nations of Canada need to united against our common enemy. Class struggle is the primary focus of leftists, we communists support the right to succession but not succession. First nations own the majority of the land of Quebec, why aren't you secessionists supporting their land claims?

The National question can be solved within Canada, national rights are not there right now, but it can be.

Leftists also support the right for both sides within a marriage the right to divorce but we don't support people going out and getting divorced.

All the nations of Canada can work out their differences.
If that is the Quebecois peoples will, then it must be supported.
But if the vote was the other way around I would equally support their right to self determination.

As with the thread with the Basque country, which has similaritys with this I feel its a gradual process. But if its against the will of the Quebecois people the debate is irrelevant.

As for the first nations, I support their right to self determination, equally.

[Charles Xavier]

If that is the Quebecois peoples will, then it must be supported.
But if the vote was the other way around I would equally support their right to self determination.

As with the thread with the Basque country, which has similaritys with this I feel its a gradual process. But if its against the will of the Quebecois people the debate is irrelevant.

As for the first nations, I support their right to self determination, equally.

Of course and I as well. But the various nations within Canada, need to work together in a common struggle against our common oppressor. Because our common oppressor is International Capitalism. They do not really care if the whole world is divided into Swiss cheese, In fact they would prefer that so they can divide and conquer.