THE FAITHFUL SERVANT'S REWARD - Steelworker? Veteran? "Fuc

[redstar2000]

http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-md.o...home-columnists (http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-md.olesker27mar27,0,6782459.column?coll=bal-home-columnists)

America--a country worth fighting for. :o

:cool:

[Tkinter1]

That's too bad.

This doesn't have to much to do with capitalists fucking over the poor, as you would make it seem.

It has more to do with a bankrupt company with no choice.


(Edited by Tkinter1 at 6:23 am on April 20, 2003)

[redstar2000]

Gee, Tkinter1, who do you suppose made the decisions that bankrupted that company? (Hint: the word starts with a "c".)

Think any of them are hurting?

:cool:

[Tkinter1]

Steel has been going down hill for quite a while. A lot of factors played into its downfall besides poor decisions made by capitalists...Like cheaper foreign steel.

But I agree, I doubt many of the executives are hurting.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 9:27 pm on April 20, 2003)

[Anonymous]

This is indeed a tragedy. It is a tragedy that has been allowed due to how a free market is allowed to operate. By no means capitalist have a "corner" on the market of tragedy.

Communist also have thier man made tragedy:

http://www.artukraine.com/famineart/

I am sure when Soviet communist fight for the mother land, they do not have Stalin's genocide in mind.

Equally USGIs do not want to die for a CEO who has screwed his factory workers.

[Voice of Reason]

too bad life sucks

[redstar2000]

Now that's a couple of "bleeding heart" responses if I ever heard any. One cappie says it's a "tragedy" and the other blames "bad luck".

Have you utterly forgotten what you are supposed to say?

The capitalist "party line" is that failure in life is the fault of the individual. That's the American way to look at things.

Where is your inhumanity? Your cold indifference to human suffering in the name of profit? Your celebration of military conquest and contempt for the pathetic fools who won it for you?

Come on, guys, I'm disappointed in you. I expected you to say something like "well, they should have gone to night school and escaped the mills" or "they should have joined the national guard and then dropped out, like our heroic president".

You're never going to make it in today's competitive business environment if you don't purge yourselves of these humanitarian illusions.

:cool:

[Chiak47]

Red,

Tragedy,bad fortune, and CEO greed is not the case here.It's norinco and nipon steel driving the costs down.How can American steel companies out produce companies from overseas who pay 1% of American's wages and expect to still be competitive?
If anything it's the unions who sowed that company for what it is worth.

It's all across the board...From the miners of the ore's to the truck drivers and railroads who deliver the steel...Even on to manufacturing companies...
Unions demand demand demand...Then when a company can't give no more then poof who gets the blame?

Nice article btw...Did you get it a a red convention?

Take it from someone who has been there.I used to be a die hard unionist till I seen the greed and destruction it can inflict.

For example...There was a large steel corp in Gary IND they had a branch in Oakland CA.In the 90's they went under.The brand new mill in CA was taken apart and put on a ship to make it's home in China.Now that plant is producing like mad.

Think about it then get back to me...

BTW...RED-I would have thought you offed yourself by now.
Suicide is painless bro...Get it over with...Your a waste of oxygen...You lived a fat life now it's time to move on brother.Make elbow room for those who want a future not those like you who have no future.

Go back to the syria thread and answer my reply buddie.I'm interested in what you family thinks of you.


Thanks,
Dr.Kevorkian

[Guest1]

Actually, the article says the company has new management. Why can't THEY keep the health care?

[Tkinter1]

Because they're bankrupt...

[redstar2000]

That's more like it, Chiak47. I knew I could count on you for an extraordinarily stupid response...blame the unions.

Yes, if it wasn't for those "fucking unions driving up workers' wages", we could have those $1.00/hour steel jobs right here in America. Yea!!!

When you get right down to it, who the hell ever said that workers deserved a living wage? Ungrateful lazy bastards ought to be satisfied with a bowl of gruel after a 14-hour day, right?

Maybe what they should have done was lived off their wives.

In your case, Chiak47, suicide is boring.

:cool:

PS: The owners of the Baltimore Sun would be greatly distressed to hear their publication characterized as "red".

(Edited by redstar2000 at 9:17 pm on April 21, 2003)

[Anonymous]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:23 pm on April 21, 2003
Now that's
You're never going to make it in today's competitive business environment if you don't purge yourselves of these humanitarian illusions.

:cool:


I'm am making it better than just fine. My charities that I give time and money to are happy I'm making it better than just fine.

Are you trying to establish that Communist have a moral superiority? Communist through history and around the world have had thier moral let downs too.

I believe I noted somewhere you live in the UK or Europe? If so then if it we not for pathetic fools of numerous USGIs in WW2 you would be speaking German right now.

[Sabocat]

Quote: from Chiak47 on 3:30 am on April 22, 2003
Red,

Tragedy,bad fortune, and CEO greed is not the case here.It's norinco and nipon steel driving the costs down.How can American steel companies out produce companies from overseas who pay 1% of American's wages and expect to still be competitive?
If anything it's the unions who sowed that company for what it is worth.

It's all across the board...From the miners of the ore's to the truck drivers and railroads who deliver the steel...Even on to manufacturing companies...
Unions demand demand demand...Then when a company can't give no more then poof who gets the blame?

Nice article btw...Did you get it a a red convention?

Take it from someone who has been there.I used to be a die hard unionist till I seen the greed and destruction it can inflict.

For example...There was a large steel corp in Gary IND they had a branch in Oakland CA.In the 90's they went under.The brand new mill in CA was taken apart and put on a ship to make it's home in China.Now that plant is producing like mad.

Think about it then get back to me...

BTW...RED-I would have thought you offed yourself by now.
Suicide is painless bro...Get it over with...Your a waste of oxygen...You lived a fat life now it's time to move on brother.Make elbow room for those who want a future not those like you who have no future.

Go back to the syria thread and answer my reply buddie.I'm interested in what you family thinks of you.


Thanks,
Dr.Kevorkian







Apparently you don't understand the mentality of corporate greed. You can't blame the unions for driving business out.

If you want to see true representations of their greed, you only have to look to Mexico to see. Corporations that moved there to exploit the low wage scales there, have abandoned Mexico and moved to China, to exploit even lower wage workers there. In the meantime posting record profits.

I would suggest you watch Michael Moore's "The Big One". That movie will give you a good look into the "driving forces" behind American Corporations. A good portion of that film was shot in your neck of the woods as well, so it may strike a chord.

From your statement then, I guess one could conclude that you would be a "scab"and cross a picket line.

[Chiak47]

Red,

I do think unions are a evil that should have a place in this country.I also believe there should be at least a 1000% tariff on steel imported here.That way steel companies here in the states will still be competitive.

Or make the unions global and set a pay sale across the board.But there is a fat chance of that.With NK and Red China getting away with paying subjects $0.25 a hr.


BTW red,Suicide is anything but boring.Think of all the jobs you can create with your death.The coroner,police,nurse's,dr's.photographers,funeral director,makeup artist,grave digger,and lawn care professional.

Hell people will be able to feed there families off your worthless life.
Go touch a third rail or tie a burning American flag around yourself and jump off the Golden Gate Bridge 1 hr after you drop a dose of window pane.
Hell swallow some lead after you down a bottle of good french cognac and puffed on a fat cuban thigh rolled cigar.I'm really starting to re-think my anti-abortion stance after communicating with your pathetic ass for over a month now.

Thanks,
Lives off Wife

[CubanFox]

Half the post was garbage, Chiak.

Encouraging people to kill themselves is a sick thing to do. The shit one says shows alot about one's character.

From what you say, you're a horrid little man who just starts yelling and screaming when an argument doesn't go his way.

Please grow up, Chiak. For your own sake.

[redstar2000]

"Or make the unions global..." -- Chiak47

Hmmm, now there's an idea. Does the phrase "workers of the world, unite" ring a bell? :cheesy:

Kelvin9 gives time and money to charities. Do you know the technical term we communists use for people like yourself, Kelvin9? We call them suckers.

No offense, Kelvin9, if you're actually running a charity racket yourself. It is another aspect of "the American Way". And you did say "your charities"... :cheesy:

But, worse luck, I'm not in Europe. Born and stuck in the U$A, dammit. The argument that Europeans would be speaking German were it not for the USA is historically ignorant. The likelihood is that the USSR, all by itself, would have defeated the 3rd Reich by 1946 or 1947 at the latest.

And by now, most of the world might have been communist. Narrow escape for you fellows.

:cool:

[Chiak47]

Red,

It will never happen.To much room for greed.Nationalism is where it is at.


Cubansocks-don't jump into grown folks topics without asking first.I have been doing this to red for a month now and vice versa.I just mess with the old man to get his blood pressure high enough to throw him into a vegi state.The suicide is a side tactic I use.
So now that I have explained it to you why don't you go with your newly found info wayward son and troll someone else.Go pull grandpa's finger or try to catch a glimpse of a nipple in a catalog.

Red-looks like you have fresh meat to fondle you sick bastard.Are you not big enough to defend yourself?
Or do you need these pre-teens to help?


Thanks,
I hate punk wannabe kids

[Tkinter1]

"Born and stuck in the U$A, dammit."

How old are you red?

[redstar2000]

I shall be diplomatic, Tkinter1, and admit only that I was born while FDR was serving his third term as president.

And, man, have I seen a lot of shit go down!

:cool:

[Anonymous]

Redstar:

I'll ask you in a different way regarding your frist post.

Are capitalist the only ones who screw people over and create man made tragedy?

Communist are also responsible for much human suffering in the last century.

[Ghost Writer]

That's a point that they will constantly ignore, Kelvin9.

[redstar2000]

"Communists are also responsible for much human suffering in the last century."

Certainly true, kelvin9. The difference is that communists recognize mistakes, blunders, and crimes and learn not to repeat them. What happened to those steelworkers is the normal way that capitalism operates.

There's no protest from Amnesty International or the ACLU for those kinds of events (which, by the way, take place on a daily basis). No UN Security Council or Human Rights Commissions take up those kinds of issues. The bleeding-heart liberal Democrats and iron-hearted conservative Republicans both have "other" things to think about.

In the mainstream of capitalist ideology, it is understood that there are "winners" and "losers"...and the losers deserve their fate.

For once it is admitted that the losers don't deserve their fate, the next question is inevitable: do the winners really deserve their wins?

And the next thing you know, you'll be reading Marx and sliding down the slippery slope towards "eternal damnation". :cheesy:

So you who defend capitalism have to "hold the line here" -- your ideological consistency demands that you endorse the outcome of the events in Baltimore (just as I support the Cubans for imprisoning the pro-capitalist U.S. agents)...or else be labelled hypocrits.

Pretty simple, isn't it?

:cool:

[Anonymous]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:13 pm on April 25, 2003
"Communists are also responsible for much human suffering in the last century."

Certainly true, kelvin9. The difference is that communists recognize mistakes, blunders, and crimes and learn not to repeat them. What happened to those steelworkers is the normal way that capitalism operates.

There's no protest from Amnesty International or the ACLU for those kinds of events (which, by the way, take place on a daily basis). No UN Security Council or Human Rights Commissions take up those kinds of issues. The bleeding-heart liberal Democrats and iron-hearted conservative Republicans both have "other" things to think about.

In the mainstream of capitalist ideology, it is understood that there are "winners" and "losers"...and the losers deserve their fate.

For once it is admitted that the losers don't deserve their fate, the next question is inevitable: do the winners really deserve their wins?

And the next thing you know, you'll be reading Marx and sliding down the slippery slope towards "eternal damnation". :cheesy:

So you who defend capitalism have to "hold the line here" -- your ideological consistency demands that you endorse the outcome of the events in Baltimore (just as I support the Cubans for imprisoning the pro-capitalist U.S. agents)...or else be labelled hypocrits.

Pretty simple, isn't it?

:cool:

Did Stalin ever recognize his "mistakes"? Did Pol Pot?

What is your opinion of Tienamen Square? Tanks vs. a guy in a white shirt holding a plastic shopping bag? I am sure the students at Tienamen Squre have been "corrected".

My point is your communist systems are not pure and free of sin. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

[redstar2000]

"Did Stalin ever recognize his mistakes? Did Pol Pot?"

Of course they didn't, but we do.

There are, to be sure, many "communists" who remain stalwart defenders of 20th century communism. The real communists are still in a minority.

You may have run across the famous quote: "the only way a new idea in science wins out is when all the old scientists retire or die." It works the same way with Marxism.

In another few decades, communism will have little in common with the old Leninist paradigm...while capitalism will continue to chew people up and spit them out as it always has, only more so.

The last time I saw a figure, it was said that real wages for the American working class have dropped 4% in the last three decades. I don't have to remind you what path executive compensation has followed over the same period.

It will get worse!

:cool:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from Chiak47 on 9:16 pm on April 22, 2003
Red,

I do think unions are a evil that should have a place in this country.I also believe there should be at least a 1000% tariff on steel imported here.That way steel companies here in the states will still be competitive.

Or make the unions global and set a pay sale across the board.But there is a fat chance of that.With NK and Red China getting away with paying subjects $0.25 a hr.


BTW red,Suicide is anything but boring.Think of all the jobs you can create with your death.The coroner,police,nurse's,dr's.photographers,funeral director,makeup artist,grave digger,and lawn care professional.

Hell people will be able to feed there families off your worthless life.
Go touch a third rail or tie a burning American flag around yourself and jump off the Golden Gate Bridge 1 hr after you drop a dose of window pane.
Hell swallow some lead after you down a bottle of good french cognac and puffed on a fat cuban thigh rolled cigar.I'm really starting to re-think my anti-abortion stance after communicating with your pathetic ass for over a month now.

Thanks,
Lives off Wife



So, unions are "evil"?! Yet, they have and deserve a place in the US? Wouldn't that mean that the US is evil?

[Anonymous]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 12:50 am on April 26, 2003
"Did Stalin ever recognize his mistakes? Did Pol Pot?"

Of course they didn't, but we do.

There are, to be sure, many "communists" who remain stalwart defenders of 20th century communism. The real communists are still in a minority.

You may have run across the famous quote: "the only way a new idea in science wins out is when all the old scientists retire or die." It works the same way with Marxism.

In another few decades, communism will have little in common with the old Leninist paradigm...while capitalism will continue to chew people up and spit them out as it always has, only more so.

The last time I saw a figure, it was said that real wages for the American working class have dropped 4% in the last three decades. I don't have to remind you what path executive compensation has followed over the same period.

It will get worse!

:cool:


Are you implying that when small investors get screwed by junk bonds, scams, and out right thievery; the FTC does nothing?

Do you imply the FTC does nothing but say "oh well suckers". Capitalist do learn from mistakes. It is the FTC that has been driving all the formation of laws that have come about from unfair and unethical trades. Capitalist do learn.

Last time I checked, communist have not yet put any safeguards into producing another Stalin or Pol Pot? As we speak "iron men" in Russia are harking back to a more Stalin like rule.

(Edited by kelvin9 at 2:01 am on April 26, 2003)

[redstar2000]

If I'm not mistaken, kelvin9, the first major "investment scam" involved something called the "South Sea Islands Syndicate"...back in the late 1600s.

It's been going on ever since...only the numbers of people defrauded and the amounts stolen have grown larger with each passing century.

The SEC, FTC, and all the other "regulatory" bodies are, in fact, in the hands of those they "regulate". Whatever legal "barriers" they erect to "stop fraud" are as tough as toilet paper. Since accumulation of wealth is the only measure of human value under capitalism, the incentive to cheat is unbreakable.

The matter of preventing another Stalin or Pol Pot is not a matter of "legalities"...it is a matter of communist understanding in the working class. When it is understood that Stalin-like or Pol-Pot-like behavior is fundamentally unacceptable both among communists and among workers as a whole, there will be no need for any kind of special law against it.

Back in the 1980s, some neo-Nazis opened a "Rudolph Hess Bookstore" in San Francisco. There were no appeals to law, no demonstrations, no efforts to apply economic pressures against the landlord. The store was just simply burned to the ground.

The would-be Stalin or Pol Pot of 2075 will probably catch a quick bullet, not from a right-winger but from a real communist.

:cool:

[Anonymous]

In regards to your accusations of investment scams. The regulatory commisions do learn. There is a major scam about once every working generation. The high tech bubble to the 80s corporate take overs. Just long enough for a working generation to forget. This is not a defense for the system, just an observation.

You have formulated a hope for what may happen to the next Stalin. I hope that will happen too, but you have not sold me on that it will. As of today the batting average for communism producing a Stalin is pretty good. I would not shed a tear for a Nazi bookstore burning to the ground. I also would no like to see it come down to that.

You also have not assured me that communist can be self-regulating. What would happen to me? Would the real communist who burn down a bookstore be looking for me?

[redstar2000]

You phrased that an interesting way, kelvin9...that some communist "might come looking for you."

I couldn't rule that out...it would depend on a lot of things that neither of us know about the distant future.

But look at it this way: the capitalists don't have to "come looking for you"...they can wreck your life without ever knowing your name.

What happened to those Baltimore steelworkers wasn't a matter of a deliberate conspiracy against them...it was just business as usual.

Capitalism treats its enemies pretty badly...but nothing like it treats its friends.

:cool: