Anarchy in Iraq??!!! - >>>An Anarchist's view<<<<<<

[RedCeltic]

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...3/04/17/8242895 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=03/04/17/8242895)

[mentalbunny]

Well we couldn't expect the ignorant press to get it right, they always jump to conclusions, and also don't really know what anarchism is.

[Dhul Fiqar]

It's just ignorance: "Hey, people are killing each other and destroying everything around them, it must be anarchy, this is what anarchists want!"

:(

--- G.

[El Che]

Anarchists!

[truthaddict11]

the medias definition of "anarchy" is bullshit and has nothing to do with what anarchism is

[Boris Moskovitz]

Fuck the medias, they are a bunch of filthy roaches.

[MiNdGaMe]

We had the same mentallity and level of intelligence with the Sydney Student Strikes. The Media and Police repeatively stated that Anarchists hijacked the protests, where police and students had several confrontations.

[rAW DEaL bILL]

yea its totaly fucked how the whole world thinks anarchy is just total chaos. if more people truly knew what it meant itd become much more possible for it to happen but ofcourse the governments around the world dont want that to happen so they teach there people anarchy is destruction and killing etc... in my history book it has a page about the haymarket riots and it says anarchists ruined all order in the prostest by throwing the bomb. it then gives there definition of anarchists. it says anarchists are people that advocate a society in which there is chaos, lack of government and lawlesness. sadly, thats what most of the world thinks. a truly terrible thing and a perfect example of how the winners write history.

[canikickit]

Perhaps the dictionary definition of what anarchy actually is woulld aleviate some of the confusion.

"1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : DISORDER <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature -- Israel Shenker>
3 : ANARCHISM "

[elijahcraig]

The dictionary definition is bullshit written by capitalists to destroy the theory, the real meaning is in the writings of the Anarchists. Try Bakunin or Berkman.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from canikickit on 4:20 am on June 29, 2003
Perhaps the dictionary definition of what anarchy actually is woulld aleviate some of the confusion.

"1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : DISORDER <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature -- Israel Shenker>
3 : ANARCHISM "


What rubbish.

The following is far more accurate: http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

[canikickit]

The dictionary definition is bullshit written by capitalists to destroy the theory, the real meaning is in the writings of the Anarchists.

No. you are paranoid.


What rubbish.

The following is far more accurate: http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

No. You are paranoid.

The point is, "anarchy" does mean chaos.
The meaning that anarchists hold dear is in the definition I gave:

a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

There is no need to become a reactionary bastard and deny the English language.

(Edited by canikickit at 4:00 am on July 1, 2003)

[Som]

The point is, "anarchy" does mean chaos.
The meaning that anarchists hold dear is in the definition I gave:

a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

There is no need to become a reactionary bastard and deny the English language.

Except not to the anarchists.

Anarchy has literal greek roots, an - against archy - authority

The dictionary tosses the word utopian in there as well, screws that definition off.

There are dictionaries that will define communism as a totalitarian ideology with complete state control over peoples lives. Though we know that to be horseshit. The same idea applies to the dictionaries definition of anarchy, its just far more distorted. Parts of it of course are fitting, but still oriented against it (not implying something elaborate as capitalist conspiracy, just something as much as the dictionaries writers own personal misinterpretation of it). 2a would be fitting, but putting 'or established order' in there screws that, conecting a lack of authority with a lack of order, which is an assumption of quite a lot of people.

So, It does NOT mean chaos.

[Dhul Fiqar]

I was under the impression that the term "anarchy" referred to a species of small ducks in the Northern part of Queensland, characterized by barely visible spots un the underside of their beaks and a slightly blue-ish tint to at least one feather on each wing.

This is how I understand the term, and I think most people would agree with me that it is the only worthwhile definition.

--- G.

[Red Comrade]

Actually, what happened in Iraq WAS Anarchy.

No government/state, no police, no rules, no authority. That is Anarchy! Instead of saying that this "isn't Anarchy", you should look at it as an experiment in Anarchist theory. What happens when you all of a sudden abolish a government? Oh that's right, chaos happens.

I'm not saying Anarchism is chaos, I'm just saying that once you give people complete freedom to do what they want without fear of authority, they will start chaos.

Also, Elijah, I'm not sure, but why in the world are you defending Bakunin, Berkmen, and Proudhon whilst having Lenin as your avatar?

[truthaddict11]

:sigh:
that was not anarchy, they were still under the jurisdiction of the US Army. Anachism has nothing to do with chaos.

[Som]

Actually, what happened in Iraq WAS Anarchy.

No government/state, no police, no rules, no authority. That is Anarchy! Instead of saying that this "isn't Anarchy", you should look at it as an experiment in Anarchist theory. What happens when you all of a sudden abolish a government? Oh that's right, chaos happens.

haha, Very funny, A kneejerk reaction to capitalism under an OCCUPATIONAL IMPERIALIST ARMY is supposed to be Anarchy?

So while we're at meaningless crap, are the islamic fundamentalist groups trying to take advantage of it anarchists? Is their clerical fascism just proto-anarchism? Eh? I'm sure you could manage something that ridiculous.

How about the property owners? the rich? and the mini gangs of looters, I suppose sitting there with their guns and property, that was no authority too?

That capitalism wasn't even touched, one of the most basic ideas of anarchy being opposed to capitalism as well as the state, I suppose that makes it anarchy?

I suppose the american tanks rolling through baghdad were clearly signs of anarchy too?

Got any more ignorant crap for us?

(Edited by Som at 9:49 pm on July 1, 2003)

[canikickit]

Words can have more than one meaning. "Anarchy" does, it is extremely sad that people are so narrow minded that they can't accept this.

[Red Comrade]

ANARCHY=NO GOVERNMENT

Regardless of the imperialist army in Baghdad, that has nothing to do with it. Coalition troops did not install order; they simply left Iraq lawless, as if no one was there. They were concentrating on securing the oil fields.

THERE WAS NO AUTHORITY FIGURES. THERE WAS NO POLICE FORCE.

So what the hell do you call a nation that has no law, authority, or government?

You can overanalyze and babbel all day long, but the facts are blatant. I agree that Anarchism isn't chaos in theory, but it certainly turns out that way if you go directly from capitalism to Anarchism, or Fascism to Anarchism, etc etc.

Got any more ignorant crap for us?

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from Red Comrade on 10:47 pm on July 1, 2003
ANARCHY=NO GOVERNMENT

Regardless of the imperialist army in Baghdad, that has nothing to do with it. Coalition troops did not install order; they simply left Iraq lawless, as if no one was there. They were concentrating on securing the oil fields.

THERE WAS NO AUTHORITY FIGURES. THERE WAS NO POLICE FORCE.

So what the hell do you call a nation that has no law, authority, or government?

You can overanalyze and babbel all day long, but the facts are blatant. I agree that Anarchism isn't chaos in theory, but it certainly turns out that way if you go directly from capitalism to Anarchism, or Fascism to Anarchism, etc etc.

Got any more ignorant crap for us?

So you think that anarchist just want no rules so that they can burn and loot and get murdered. eh?

LOL

Anarchism can not happen directly with no organization after capitalism, there needs to be a communist step.

[Red Comrade]

So you think that anarchist just want no rules so that they can burn and loot and get murdered. eh?

I never said that. I didn't say Anarchy was chaotic in theory, it's just that when you abolish a government that runs the lives of a bunch of ignorant and poor peasants like in Iraq, that will be the outcome.

The step that links capitalism and Communism is socialism.

[Som]

ANARCHY=NO GOVERNMENT

First error.

Anarchy = no authority.

Authoritys not just the government.

Regardless of the imperialist army in Baghdad, that has nothing to do with it. Coalition troops did not install order; they simply left Iraq lawless, as if no one was there. They were concentrating on securing the oil fields.

THERE WAS NO AUTHORITY FIGURES. THERE WAS NO POLICE FORCE.

So what the hell do you call a nation that has no law, authority, or government?

Well you'd call it liberated, but thats obviously not the case with iraq.

Are police all of a sudden the only institution of authority? The boss and the iraqi capitalist class all of sudden is just a little quiet?

How quickly you seem to forget about the ruling capitalist classes we all go prattling on about.

The soldiers were still there, and the people knew full well they had authority they just hadn't gotten around to using.
They even had the authority they wouldve used to destroy any anarchist group that would've come around.

More of your anarchy with a gun to your head. Its not very anarchist at all.

You can overanalyze and babbel all day long, but the facts are blatant. I agree that Anarchism isn't chaos in theory, but it certainly turns out that way if you go directly from capitalism to Anarchism, or Fascism to Anarchism, etc etc.

You sure seem to ignore the facts yourself.

If you'd bother to read the original article in this thread, you'd know that what happened in Iraq is no suprise to any anarchist, and its far from anything remotely of a blow to anarchist theory.

"liberty can not descend on a people, a people must raise themselves to liberty" - emma goldman

[elijahcraig]

I'm not sure anarchy would work in Iraq, the US would have that thrown down pretty fast.

[truthaddict11]

are you saying that anarchists are not organized? because that is false there is organization in anarchism just not centralized organization with leadership as you suggest under "Marxist"-Leninism if you want to read more read the Putins Socialism thread in Politics.