Faith in the Masses

[Bud Struggle]

I was just wondering what faith you Communist (and the women who love you) have in the masses. As in rising up an overthrowing their oppressors and taking over control of their lives.

I personally wouldn't think it's possible, but I've been reading about the Paris Commune--and there it was. They did it. So, an aberration or the future?

[Forward Union]

It's not really faith. It's optimistic, we hope for a logical, practical and favourable outcome for our organising efforts. It seems reasonable that the masses will want to organise in their own self-interests which naturally leads them to horizontalism and cooperation (communsim in other words). They are unlikely to volonteer their freedoms away, and restore capitalism, that would contradict darwinian understanding of human nature. In the same way we are unlikely to want to regress back to Feudalism and restor our barons, lords and knights, essentially resuming our place as serfs.

I dont see what faith has to do with it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't have faith in the masses. If I did, I wouldn't bother arguing for communism, as "the forces of history" would ensure an easy victory.

As for the Paris Commune, I don't know an explanation for that. But that doesn't mean there isn't one.

[Bud Struggle]

It's not really faith. It's optimistic, we hope for a logical, practical and favourable outcome for our organising efforts. It seems reasonable that the masses will want to organise in their own self-interests which naturally leads them to horizontalism and cooperation (communsim in other words). They are unlikely to volonteer their freedoms away, and restore capitalism, that would contradict darwinian understanding of human nature. In the same way we are unlikely to want to regress back to Feudalism and restor our barons, lords and knights, essentially resuming our place as serfs.

I dont see what faith has to do with it.

Thanks, and if I may clarify from your points--is it the MASSES that will introduce their own freedoms for themselves--or is it just the hand of history that will rollout what it wills out?

[JimmyJazz]

Aside from a few Mao-inspired posters, who here talks about "the masses"? I've never used that phrase.

[Forward Union]

Thanks, and if I may clarify from your points--is it the MASSES that will introduce their own freedoms for themselves--or is it just the hand of history that will rollout what it wills out?

It will be the masses (of working people) that win their freedoms. History doesn't do it for them, but it does bring about circumstances which encourage them to make that leap.

But they need to be organised and class conciouss.

[Killfacer]

It's kind of difficult to say. Certainly in the currently climate it seems hugely unlikely that the "masses" are going to rise up and cast off the shackles of capitalist oppression. I beleive that many communists on this website beleive that although that is the current situation, in the near future that could dramatically change.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Thanks, and if I may clarify from your points--is it the MASSES that will introduce their own freedoms for themselves--or is it just the hand of history that will rollout what it wills out?

To use a horticultural analogy, the historical conditions will be like agreeable soil, the masses the seeds and the revolutionaries the gardeners tending the growing plants of revolution. That might sound a bit Maoist in sentiment, but the important point is that all are important.

[Plagueround]

It has happened many times throughout history. I don't see any reason why it can't happen again. Many of the best examples you'll find of things like the Paris Commune that failed were usually due to outside sources, not because the people stopped getting along.

For all the selfishness and factioning, divisiveness and hatred that goes on, human beings are also capable of demonstrating extreme solidarity and cooperation. As you have often said, we are all brothers and sisters...coming from a close family I can tell you I've never placed any of my siblings interests over making more money or having more than any one of them. When one of them needs help I do as much as I can, and vice versa. There really isn't any reason this can't someday apply to the people in your neighborhood, community, state, country or world.

We have a lot to overcome, and that's what people on this site have been saying all along. By building communities and demonstrating to people that this is possible, we bring the world that much closer to realizing what we can accomplish.

Unfortunately, there will always be those that disagree, and those that would stand in our way. As much as I would like to believe they would passively or willingly stand down, history has also proven this is not the case. Therefore I keep any and all possibilites open for the future. I cannot and will not give up, no matter how much I am told I am wrong, that I'm a dreamer or a utopian, or that we will never accomplish this because people are "selfish".
A better world is out there, but sitting back and waiting for others to make it happen will do nothing.

I suppose this would qualify as having faith in the masses, though as other have said, it's not so much faith as it is optimistic and positive influence.

As for the woman who loves me, she's coming around to the ideals, especially since her sociology teacher is now validating everything I've been trying to tell her. :lol:

[Schrödinger's Cat]

"The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice." - MLK

[pusher robot]

"The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice." - MLK


"Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

[Schrödinger's Cat]

"When in Rome, have sex with a goat."

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

"I'm sorry, but strange women coming out of lakes is no basis for a system of government."

[Dr Mindbender]

the masses also have the potential to turn to fascism so they need direction.

[534634634265]

It will be the masses (of working people) that win their freedoms. History doesn't do it for them, but it does bring about circumstances which encourage them to make that leap.

But they need to be organised and class conciouss.

who will teach them?
what working class person is interested in learning lots of new stuff in order to.... what? start resisting the system?
people know what happens when you resist the system. they saw Waco burn. they saw Seattle burn. people are brainwashed to believe that "the system" is the everlasting truth.
you can't educate them enough to break that belief, unless they want to break it on their own. and then, who needs your education?

[Green Dragon]

But they need to be organised and class conciouss.

[/QUOTE]

So how does organisation occur in a libertarian socialist community?

[Green Dragon]

the masses also have the potential to turn to fascism so they need direction.

From whom? A vanguard? Been tried before, and I thought it was the general view hereabouts that it failed. Or a vanguard that can't direct anyone anywhere? That would sort of defeat the purpose, I would think, for both objectives.

And I thought there were no "bosses" in the socialist community.