Cuban ferry hijackers executed, and dissidents jailed

[Anti communist]

The 3 men that tried to hijack a ferry about a week or 2 ago from Cuba to the US were executed today by firing squad following a trial that lasted less than a day. I'm not sure what the penalty is in the US for hijacking a ferry, but I can bet it's not death and definitely not after a 1 day trial without any appeals, especially if no one was killed by the hijackers. My source is ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

Also today or yesterday, 80 dissidents were sentenced to from 20 to 28 yrs in prison. These dissidents were not allowed to have lawyers represent them and their trials were just as swift. The media and Amnesty Int'l were not allowed in the court rooms. My source is ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

How can some people on this website still defend Casrtro's brutal regime with this kind of evidence?

[Liberty Lover]

Castro's crackdowns are indicative of the need to use brutality in order to maintain the communist status quo.

[Pete]

I wonder what I would get if I was an American citizen who hijacks and threatens to destroy a ferry? Or if I was plotting with the Cuban government to create a violent overthrow of the American state?

[Blibblob]

I think it is a little harsh. But don't blame Castro, he's a little old, he doesn't really run the country anymore.
"80 dissidents" 75. They had a day trial and sentenced to 28 years in prison. But if what Cuba said is right, then they should have. Here, traitors would be executed.

[hazard]

my understanding of american justice is years of torture, subhuman treatment and humiliation prior to execution. my "xray" vision tells me that being involved in terrorist activity has the noble american pigs attempting to recreate a virtual hell on earth to serve as punishment to these terrorists/freedom fighters/pows/unlwful combatants. whatever they want to call them this week.

[Anti communist]

LL, right on.

Pete, they were just writing and talking against the gov't, nothing violent about it. A hijacker that doesn't injure anyone wouldn't be executed in the US.

Your 2nd scenario would be a lot more serious. If you are found guilty of treason you COULD be executed I think. But according to the media and Am Intl, they were just trying to exercise some free speech.

I'll bet these guys will be tortured also in prison. They will try to break tem mentally so when the get out they never speak against the gov't. These are the lucky ones by the way. If someone is s huge threat, he simply disappears.

[Pete]

Such is the same under the patriot act.

[Anti communist]

What do you mean?

[Pete]

If you disagree with the US government and can be 'proved' to be a 'terrorist' you will be having an all expense payed trip to cuba...

[Invader Zim]

At least castro gave them a trail. In the USA i read somewhere there is a 50% chanse of you being shot before the "negosiations" finish.

[Ymir]

All governments have large security organs so they can control the population. Security forces are not an exclusively Communist idea. The USA has over a 1,000,000 people employed as members of government owned Law Enforcement agencies.

And the number of people imprisoned in the USA is more than the USSR ever had at one time.
-Source: http://antitrot.tripod.com

The USA has never been reluctant to use military force to quell uprisings or rebellions.

Shay's Rebellion- Farmers who owed a debt to rich landowners and were jailed for their inability to repay their debts. The debtors were taken to jail and this began the rebellion of several thousand americans. They were captured by US forces and sentenced to death for treason, but later pardoned.

Whiskey Rebellion- Unfair taxes and a desire to be more independent from a developing aristocratic regime lead to the mobilization of 12,950 to crush the rebellion, under orders of George Washington.

Confederate State Secession (Civil War)- Southern States attempt a secession that is completely crushed, 600,000 killed in fighting, uncounted dead from economic and collateral damage to the civillian population.

[Pete]

Shay. Shay. Was that headed by the Bacon guy? (His las name being bacon)

[Pete]

hahaha that site is hilarious, I think the whole Trot vs Stalin debate is bullshit though!

[Hampton]

Another source for prison population:

U.S. Prison Population Tops 2 Million (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-prison-population,0,506459.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines)

[Ymir]

Shay's rebellion was lead by a man named Shay.

[Pete]

Damn. THat makes sense though. The Tidewaters and the Peadmont. Yet that is it. The Peadmont Rebellion headed by Somebody Bacon

[Anonymous]

Fried Bacon.

[Pete]

No. Nathaniel Bacon. But 'friend bacon' jumped me to nathaniel some how.

[RedCeltic]

I think it’s disgusting how people on this website make excuses for barbarism. Here you see an example of ideology dogma in action. If three communists tried to take over the Brooklyn Bridge in the name of the revolution and the US executed them by firing squad after only one day of trail, and no access to appeal, people would be outraged.

Look at the case with the Oklahoma City bombing. Even though unlike these people, he actually killed people, he was given a trial, and a chance for appeal. What you people support here is barbaric.

United States isn’t all that wonderful, and it has an awful lot more people to keep in line than Cuba does. And I’m surely no fan of capitalism, however I feel as though I have to side with the cappies on this issue.

If Cuba is so great and wonderful than why do people have to hijack a ferry to get to the United States? If people in Cuba have to get permission just to visit, or move to another part of the island, how likely is it that they would be able to freely travel? Not much.

All States, especially authoritarian ones, get in the way of the true liberation of the people.

[redstar2000]

Well, RC, as a matter of fact it is a felony for an American citizen to visit Cuba without permission of the U.S. State Department...punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

This law has not been enforced in recent years (to the best of my knowledge) because American visitors to Cuba are "tourists", not political activists.

More ominous is the designation of Cuba as a "terrorist state." Once this happens (if it has not already happened), then any American visitor to Cuba can be, upon their return, arrested and held indefinitely, without lawyers, without a trial, with no contact with family or friends, with nothing. They cease to exist.

Again, my understanding is that any Cuban with the price of a plane ticket is free to leave Cuba. Perhaps the three Cubans who hijacked the ferry wished to climb aboard the "economic yacht" that the U.S. provides for Cuban "refugees from communism" in Miami. It would be harder to pull that off if you arrive on Southwest Airlines from Mexico City.

Or perhaps they couldn't afford plane tickets. Other "refugees from communism" have simply taken small boats, rafts, and even inner tubes out to sea...even though the Florida Straits is a notoriously treacherous passage. No one "made" them hijack a vessel unsuitable for the high seas and put the passengers at risk of their lives.

If I were to attempt such a hijacking, I might not, if apprehended, be executed...but 25 years in one of America's hell-hole prisons doesn't exactly sound like a great way to spend the rest of my life...especially since I probably wouldn't live long enough to finish my sentence.

But, RC, I'm curious. What would you have done under these circumstances? A bunch of guys on the payroll of the U.S. trying to restore capitalism and a small group of people who hijacked a plane and a ferry. If you think Cuba is being "barbaric", what is the "civilized" response?

:cool:

[StalinLover]

Quote: from Anti communist on 12:08 am on April 12, 2003
The 3 men that tried to hijack a ferry about a week or 2 ago from Cuba to the US were executed today by firing squad following a trial that lasted less than a day. I'm not sure what the penalty is in the US for hijacking a ferry, but I can bet it's not death and definitely not after a 1 day trial without any appeals, especially if no one was killed by the hijackers. My source is ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

Also today or yesterday, 80 dissidents were sentenced to from 20 to 28 yrs in prison. These dissidents were not allowed to have lawyers represent them and their trials were just as swift. The media and Amnesty Int'l were not allowed in the court rooms. My source is ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

How can some people on this website still defend Casrtro's brutal regime with this kind of evidence?



Well. There 5 Cuban anti-terrorist officers who remain prisioners in USA Gaols. Their crime was infiltrating gusano terrorist organizations. Likewise, there are hundreds of political prisioners still lingering in american jails, many for non-violent crimes, others captured during military actions who are being denied their Geneva convention rights as revolutionary/national liberation soldiers (much like the Taliban held in Guantanamo).

What I find ironic is that you feel its wrong for Cuba to jail 80 terrorist, after a legal process, while at least 2,000 people remain in american jails with out the right to a speedy trial, and whose sole crime is to be "sand niggers" or "rag head" as you pigs like to call our heroic arab brothers. Hypocrites.

What you little pea brained capitalists are is dishonest. Face it. Power grows out of the gun. You use it, we use it. You win some, you lose some.

Neither one of us can claim a higher moral ground.

We are both supporting ideologies who murder their opponents. The difference then is that you support a system which perpetuates the existen of social classes, with conflicting interests, and I support a system that seeks to ultimately eliminate this class difference, for the betterment of all humanity!

And before you all little crybaby pinko-liberal pseudo commies and bad smelling and dreadlocked anarchist info-shop freaks open up.

How many people Che personally EXCECUTED?
How many people Durrurti personally EXCECUTED?

Thank you very much.

And, look up in the Manifesto the part about communists always telling the truth. Seems ya all need to be re-educated for all I care.

[RedCeltic]

Well, RC, as a matter of fact it is a felony for an American citizen to visit Cuba without permission of the U.S. State Department...punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

This law has not been enforced in recent years (to the best of my knowledge) because American visitors to Cuba are "tourists", not political activists.

More ominous is the designation of Cuba as a "terrorist state." Once this happens (if it has not already happened), then any American visitor to Cuba can be, upon their return, arrested and held indefinitely, without lawyers, without a trial, with no contact with family or friends, with nothing. They cease to exist.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, two wrongs don't make a right. Saying that the US does something opressive, or that Cuba is not the only nation that is in violation of human rights, does not make these acts acceptable.


But, RC, I'm curious. What would you have done under these circumstances? A bunch of guys on the payroll of the U.S. trying to restore capitalism and a small group of people who hijacked a plane and a ferry. If you think Cuba is being "barbaric", what is the "civilized" response?

Well, don't get me wrong, I do not think it is a crime that should go unpunnished. If they had threatened, or endangered someones life, perhaps I could understand a long prison term. However for hijacking a ferry with the intent of taking it to the United States, I would say they should be given a term of say five years on prison and than deportation.

[StalinLover]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 3:05 pm on April 14, 2003

I've said it before and I'll say it again, two wrongs don't make a right. Saying that the US does something opressive, or that Cuba is not the only nation that is in violation of human rights, does not make these acts acceptable.

Well, don't get me wrong, I do not think it is a crime that should go unpunnished. If they had threatened, or endangered someones life, perhaps I could understand a long prison term. However for hijacking a ferry with the intent of taking it to the United States, I would say they should be given a term of say five years on prison and than deportation.


Do you have the details, other than the official media reports from the main declared enemy of Cuba? No you don't. Hence, how can you talk about the event without such knowledge???

ah of course! the facts don't matter!

You already have your idea made up...

It will never matter that this terrorists held dozens of innocent hostage at gun point. It doesn't matter that the last time cuba shot a group of people in this type of execution was the late 1980s, while more than a dozen people have been executed for much lesser crimes in the Usa in these first 4 months of the year. Naw, the people of cuba have no right to use the tools of their state to defend their independence from enemies foreign and domestic.

News for you pup, if you lay a giant bare next to a dwarf, who would win in a fight between this "equally disarmed" people? See? By desarming cuba, and easy proposition in the face of unilateral superpower position of the USA, you are leaving it wide open for attack by the USA. Thank you, the people of Cuba say...

Such is the world of ideas, divorced from reality, from the reality of pushing foward a human collective in the midst of imperialist agression. And specially significant when one is doing so from the comfort of the empire itself... it would be funny if it weren't so sad...:(

[redstar2000]

In a discussion on another board with regard to crime and punishment in communist society, my position was (and remains) that exile is the best choice.

It is the most humane, involving neither imprisonment nor execution.

It reduces and comes close to eliminating the need for a vast permanent apparatus of repression (police, prison guards, courts, etc.).

It is the least expensive. A plane ticket costs far less than any other option.

Of course, there are practical difficulties. Even if other countries are willing to take your "pro-capitalists", are they equally willing to take your murderers and rapists?

It's a thorny dilemma.

:cool:

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 12:17 am on April 15, 2003
In a discussion on another board with regard to crime and punishment in communist society, my position was (and remains) that exile is the best choice.

It is the most humane, involving neither imprisonment nor execution.

It reduces and comes close to eliminating the need for a vast permanent apparatus of repression (police, prison guards, courts, etc.).

It is the least expensive. A plane ticket costs far less than any other option.

Of course, there are practical difficulties. Even if other countries are willing to take your "pro-capitalists", are they equally willing to take your murderers and rapists?

It's a thorny dilemma.

:cool: the only problem is that exciles have a habit of joining groups like Alpha66 and causing problems later.

[redstar2000]

Yes, AK47, your point is well taken...which may have to do with the lengthy prison sentences and executions that the Cubans have resorted to.

This thread & its links gives, I think, a very good picture of what the Cubans are up against...

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=11&topic=3380 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=3380)

I can understand why Red Celtic, for example, is critical of the measures they have taken...but it's very difficult to suggest practical alternatives.

:cool:

[truthaddict11]

I agree with RedCeltic that many here supporting with executions and jailings are being hypocritical, I bet if the US government executed Richard Ried tomorrow you would say it inhuman and and call americas facist pigs. Same thing with Mumia , he is in prison for being a dissenter and you want his freedom. but its ok for Cuba to do it.


I can understand why Red Celtic, for example, is critical of the measures they have taken...but it's very difficult to suggest practical alternatives. -Redstar2000

then what must be done?

[StalinLover]

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 7:48 pm on April 15, 2003
I agree with RedCeltic that many here supporting with executions and jailings are being hypocritical, I bet if the US government executed Richard Ried tomorrow you would say it inhuman and and call americas facist pigs. Same thing with Mumia , he is in prison for being a dissenter and you want his freedom. but its ok for Cuba to do it.


I can understand why Red Celtic, for example, is critical of the measures they have taken...but it's very difficult to suggest practical alternatives. -Redstar2000

then what must be done?




Alas, it is typical of the idealist "left" to make such hypocrital statements. And they are hypocrital because their theorical and practical bankruptcy of most of the "left".

To begin with, Cuba is not Socialist, it is State-Capitalism. But it is a thorn in the side of imperialism, hence it deserves unqualified support from those in other nations, specially imperialist countries.

Secondly, war is war. It is not a picnic. There is class war in the USA, and hence there will be victims, and there will be mayhem and death. Such is the brutal way reality reveals itself. To try to ignore this is idealism pure and simple.

Now, we must fight by any and all means for the freedom and safety of OUR comrades, and in order not to appear hypocrital, we must do so from the point of view of defending their politics vs the state. Hence, defend mumia by propagandizing the politics behind his action, by celebrating the fact he killed a pig. "Mumia: Your gun is waiting outside" "Pigs: You signed your death warrant when you signed up for the job" are appropiate slogans. Everything else is hypocrital.

Some quotes, two from stalinists, another from a black nationalist leader who was close with a trotskyite sect in the USA:

"A victory in any country over imperialism is our victory; just as any country's defeat is a defeat for all of us."
Ernesto 'Che' Guevara

We must defend Cuba, if we are to be true anti-imperialists...

" A revolution is not a dinner party... it cannot be so refined, leisurly, temperate, kind... A Revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another."
Mao Zedong.

Revolution is war...

"There is no revolution without violence. Those who don‚t accept violence can cross out the word revolution from their dictionary."
Malcolm X

Are we clear?

[Hampton]

Hence, defend mumia by propagandizing the politics behind his action, by celebrating the fact he killed a pig. "Mumia: Your gun is waiting outside" "Pigs: You signed your death warrant when you signed up for the job" are appropiate slogans. Everything else is hypocrital.

Come again? Celebrate the fact that he killed a pig? To the best of my knowledge and research on the subject it is highly probable that he did not kill a cop and is the victim of a racist system. If you really want to be "propagandizing the politics behind his action" then promote self defense, not murder for no reason. And "behind his action", what exactly was the action? Coming to the aid of his brother who was involved in an altercation with a police officer and got shot?

And I refuse to believe that every cop who signed up for the job is a corrupt, racist, murderer who deserves to die. That's just a foolish thing to say.

(Edited by Hampton at 7:20 pm on April 16, 2003)

[truthaddict11]

Quote: from Hampton on 11:47 pm on April 15, 2003

Hence, defend mumia by propagandizing the politics behind his action, by celebrating the fact he killed a pig. "Mumia: Your gun is waiting outside" "Pigs: You signed your death warrant when you signed up for the job" are appropiate slogans. Everything else is hypocrital.

Come again? Celebrate the fact that he killed a pig? To the best of my knowledge and research on the subject it is highly probable that he did not kill a cop and is the victim of a racist system. If you really want to be "propagandizing the politics behind his action" then promote self defense, not murder for no reason. And "behind his action", what exactly was the action? Coming to the aid of his brother who was involved in an altercation with a police officer and got shot?

And I refuse to believe that every cop who signed up for the job is a corrupt, racist, murderer who deserves to die. That's just a foolish thing to say.

(Edited by Hampton at 7:20 pm on April 16, 2003)


exactly Hampton if "Stalinlover" had read my sentence on Mumia he would see that I said he was in jail for being a dissenter. I dont "idolize" him for "killing a "pig""
I believe he was targeted because of his journalism and because he was black. Dont anyone take this the wrong way or anything but a reason why Noam Chomsky probally is still alive is the fact he is white.

[redstar2000]

Here is more information on the U.S. funding of the "dissidents" in Cuba...

http://www.latinamericabulletin.cafeprogre...om/catalog.html (http://www.latinamericabulletin.cafeprogressive.com/catalog.html)

:cool: