Are you a proud american?

[El Che]

With all the flag waving yanks running around in here I thought I`d make a quick point about Nationalism. Not their Nationalism in particular but Nationalism in general.

To that effect I would say this:

Nationalism is something that exists to some degree in all(?) of us even if on a subconscious level.

It is a fiction. Fictional, man made, barrier that divides man kind. Instead of having everyone pulling in the same direction (the collective well-being of mankind) you have multitude of efforts and objectives that make a common objective harder to achive.

Nationalism is nefarious and unnecessary.

What is your take on this cappies? Will you challenge my notions? If not, how do you reconcile your posture with the understanding that Nationalism is essentially aint-human? For is not humanity universal?

This is the only reply I can give to your contributions here.

[Chiak47]

The shit,

The values that I hold true-stop at the man made borders..The lifestyle that I am used too is not available in most countrys due to the fact everyone is poor..

Thank you,
Kind Sir

[Comrade Otaku]

Well, I can't blame everyone for being poor, when the largest and only superpower on the planet spends billions on attacking Iraq, so it can make millions with oil. I mean, they haven't made Afghanistan better. Their killing MORE of them. The Afghan leader only has power because of the american bodyguards. I mean, when America is done, will any Middle East or "rogue" state, have anything, except a sniveling leader with american grunts around him 24/7?

[Chiak47]

Laftie,

I love the spin around here.


"when the largest and only superpower "

America is the largest and "only" superpower when you speak of America VS Iraq.

We mention America VS North Korea it spins to
"China would mop your ass all over.China this China that"
Comie bullshit.You fucking know it...


Back to Iraq...

I have stated they better be wise when deciding a leader...I read yesterday Iran is thinking about moving in to help with the new Government.America told them to stand down.

It will be interesting.And please be thankfull it has gone well overall considering it's WAR there.
Not many Iraqi's have parished and I feel for the ones who have.

Thanks,
Eric

[Felicia]

hahaha.... "lives off wife"

[Pete]

America is the only superpower and there fore the largest.

[Chiak47]

Felicia,

Yep my job has been targeted as of lately...Hours got cut...So I pissed off some RED and he thought it was cute to post that...I find it funny myself...LoL

Pete-if you say so...I mean without us who would buy the crap that comes out of China?

Thanks,
Eric

[Comrade Otaku]

Exactly. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, America became the worlds one Superpower. Basically, if America went into North Korea I think they would get no support, except maybe from my lapdog british government

"It will be interesting.And please be thankfull it has gone well overall considering it's WAR there."

Would there have been a war if it wasn't for American imperialist agression?

[Chiak47]

Laftie,

You missed the fucking point like the Titanic missed it's final destination.

Sadamn was a bad dude.He needed to be dealt with...
Which he was...

Thanks,
Eric

[Pete]

And who will deal with Bush?

[Comrade Otaku]

Sure, Saddam was a bad dude, once he stopped following the orders from Washington. Sure, Bin Ladens evil and blew up the world trade centre, after we gave him money and weapons to fight the Soviets. And yeah, all the other dictators and terrorists America has installed, are baaad people, after they serve their purpose. This war on terror, sullies the very memories of victims of 9/11. Their deaths, they the only real patriots, are being used as excuses for foreign invasion. There are no Al-Qaeda links in Iraq, as the Baghdad government is secular

[Chiak47]

Pete,

You will deal with Bush-of course...

Socialism is slowly sneaking into this fine country..

Pretty soon I'll be paying 40%+ taxes to the "system"..

Thanks,
Eric

[Comrade Otaku]

Well, We'll laugh when your living off your wife, and shes working her, whatever to the bone, because u have to pay for your capitalist war. A few more bodies on the american tally, who cares? You evidently don't. America, has its own propaganda service, a lot more efficient than the Iraqi Intelligence Minister ;)
America is becoming inherently fascist, darkly imperialist. Has America ever been known to help the world? Will it start now? I mean, come on...An Irishman like Bono knows more about helping people than Dubya

[Bodacious]

Yes very proud thank you very much.

Traumatized that's the word. America fart's and one minute later it has 100 fart smellers on the scene describing it's odor. But what if there wrong? what if it was a shit , the joke would be on them then again.

Mass murderers,the old Bush the killer line is so ignorant I want even reply to those but while were on murderer's let's start by looking at one.KGB spy Vladimir Putin's Russia. His background would make Hitler proud .When the thieve's were let out of prison it only took them a matter of year's to infiltrate the leadership. Mass murderers how about The Russian Gulag (50 million murdered) (http://msms.essortment.com/historyrussiag_rfpb.htm)

China's chemical warfare while it cant be proved or disproved yet that it is some sort of biological agent SARS no doubt has backfired.Why the delay in letting the American CDC team in ? needed time to hide thing's? Tsk Tsk cuss us year round but when shit get's hot who you gonna call to bail your ass out Ghostbusters ? you guessed it .... help Uncle Sam help!

[Xvall]

I am not an American. I am a communist that lives in America. I have no devotion to this regime whatsoever.

[El Che]

No one has answered my questions, what a surprise!

[Bodacious]

Yes very proud thank you very much.

yeah I did your just not reading ... typical.


I am a communist that lives in America - Drake Dracoli

Hypocrite or Traitor either word fit's you , your choice. Worthy of a bullet from any side. Crying for communism all the while kicked back in America enjoying the freedom's of life.

[Boris Moskovitz]

I don't see why you would call him a hypocrite Bodacious... As for what I will call you,

Puppet or Mindless Servant woud match you, you always follow the words of the scumbag Dubya is. You think he is liberating a nation, when in reality, he wants to get rid of a dictator, and place another in power. Only this time, the dictator will be in the 'American way'.

What I say, is that people always following their nation whenever the ideas are right or wrong, and when they don't look deep enough, they are just...

Puppets...

[Pete]

How can you be treasonous to a democracy as long as you don't plot violence?

[weepingbuddha]

good call, pete

[Boris Moskovitz]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 9:46 pm on April 12, 2003
How can you be treasonous to a democracy as long as you don't plot violence?


Because the democracy wants you to do what they do, the gouvernment wants you to do what they want you to do, they want you to think whatever they think, but they also want you to eat who they eat. ;)

If you don't match them all, then they will call you a hypocryte, since you don't stand for the same thing than they do. If that is democracy, it would be total bullshit.

[Xvall]

Hypocrite or Traitor either word fit's you , your choice.

I take part in your horrible, horrible system because I am very young and am unable to move. In addition, I share a kind of bond with the people in this country, regardless of the fact that they are idiots. I don't want to see the next generation of children throw away for Shell and Exxon. Traitor. Absolutely not. In order for me to be a traitor, it would mean that I have to have been on your side in the first place. I never was. Hypocrite? Why? Because I take part in the capitalist system? Then would this make all jews that lived in Nazi Germany hypocrites; because they were being forced to take part in a system that was destroying them? Then this would make all those Cuban exiles hypocrites too, because they came from a communistic system, and are therin betraying it.

Worthy of a bullet from any side.

Ah. Wonderful to see your great anti-dictatorial pro-democratic nature.

Crying for communism all the while kicked back in America enjoying the freedom's of life.

Oh yeah man! I really enjoy all the great shit I get to do around here like go to school with stupid suburban teenagers who are to busy worring about why their parents won't buy them another car to care about anything political whatsoever. I am not enjoying any of your great luxurious freedoms. I am a minor; I don't even have constututional rights in the same way that adults do. If I say something that the teachers in school don't like, I will be suspended. I can not own a gun. What freedoms are you talking about? Or are you talking about owning capitalistic products. Oh I see then. So that makes you a hypocrite too, because I am positive that most of your clothes were made in Pakistan (A terrorist nation, by your standards) and China (An evil communist regime, by your standards). Who is the hypocrite again?

[Bodacious]

No one has answered my questions, what a surprise! - El Che
I see what you mean , they do run that pigyapper alot dont they.

Here's a new word for you I use alot and will share ...
Pigyapper ( act of running off at the mouth) adj.
1) Pig - Farm animal that roll's in the mud
2) Yapper - Art form of moving one's lip's
rapidly

I overlooked your age's ( Drake and Boris ) I didn't know you were both in school still ,or appear to be. But that's exactly my point. In America your allowed that luxury of freedom of speech. Alot of place's you would be beat , emprisoned or killed for that kind of outburst at the government.

Edit: This remind's me of a Afro-American friend of mine , alway's talking Africa is great ,this and that. Long story short he went for a vacation there , when he got back I asked him if he would like to live there. His reply "I didn't know how good we have it here until I went there and saw how it was like".



(Edited by Bodacious at 11:42 pm on April 12, 2003)

[Boris Moskovitz]

Freedom of Speech... Hmmm... Freedom of Speech...

Do you know the story of Charlie Chaplin? He was one of the most wonderful actors in the last century, the funniest man in his decade. He made many movies, that were all hilarious, and also, in one of his shows, he walked outside, with the red flag of a truck, and walked in front of the parade! Thus, making the parade look as if it was for Communism. So, the cops arrested him and sent him to jail. Note that it was just a movie...

But then, some morons from the FBI said that he was a Communist, and kicked him out of America, thus, forcing him to go to England. Now, was that Freedom of Speech? They banned him because of a spoof! A SPOOF! IT WAS NOTHING BUT A SHOW!

And for your information, the "Freedom of Speech".... isn't exactly what it is, you are still treated as an outcast by the people, the people still oppress you, I am treated like crap at my school because I am different. I really see no true freedom of speech in here. You only think that way because you look at the less fortunate nations, there are many dictators around, and I know that, but it is no reason to bomb the nation and install a new one either.

Also, freedom of speech, some people were protesting out there, and then got shot by the donut-headed cops. DO YOU CALL THAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

[peaccenicked]

The chichenhawk shit. Wants to hunt us chickens. Let him me meet me behind the shed and show him what it means to be a patriot.
It will cost him five dimes, to see the teeth of our kidnapped iraqi information minister. The greatest soothsayer that mankind has ever known.



(Edited by peaccenicked at 11:45 pm on April 12, 2003)

[Pete]

You seem to have your theories in a naught Bod.

Since I am given free speach it is treason to use it against my government. Gotcha. Hypocrite. People in my class have used the same arguement against me and it ended with me laughing at them and calling them hypocrites, as I just labeled you.

Reply to my statement on treason hypocrite.

[Bodacious]

Boris oh Boris .... did the government come snatch your ass out of your bed in the middle of the night and break your arm for saying Bush suck's?

Did your dad lose his job because he asked for a pay raise?

Was your mom hung on a light post for waving at a US Marine?

[Pete]

Reply to my statement Bod

[Bodacious]

Since I am given free speach it is treason to use it against my government - Pete
Pete you seem to have the same problem as Red , you talk before you read and dont take in what I say.

What I said was Alot of place's you would be beat , emprisoned or killed for that kind of outburst at the government. Hence other place's mean's not of the United States.

You understand now Hypocrite ?

[El Che]

Bodacious I haven`t the slightest idea what you are talking about but perhaps you would like to answer my questions.

[peaccenicked]

I promote violence, not a lot, I think our society can do without it. I promote democracy I think our society needs it . But if it came to a vote. Pro Che-lives, pro real freedom and liberty.Pro fundamental decency the essense of thought itself..
Without,DC. AC.LL.SN. Chickenhawk47.

If the majority of people decided that these spammers were nothing but
human excrement in permanent self denial. I would vote for their extinction or removal to the ministry of Iraqi information. Being humanist, I strongly urge the Iraqi option.

[Hampton]

Boris oh Boris .... did the government come snatch your ass out of your bed in the middle of the night and break your arm for saying Bush suck's?

No, but they murdered Fred Hampton and Mark Clark in 1969 for being Black Panthers in the middle of the night.

[Pete]

Bod,

If you are going to quote and comment, quote the entire phrase, the part you did does not stnad alone.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from El Che on 8:30 pm on April 11, 2003
With all the flag waving yanks running around in here I thought I`d make a quick point about Nationalism. Not their Nationalism in particular but Nationalism in general.

To that effect I would say this:

Nationalism is something that exists to some degree in all(?) of us even if on a subconscious level.

It is a fiction. Fictional, man made, barrier that divides man kind. Instead of having everyone pulling in the same direction (the collective well-being of mankind) you have multitude of efforts and objectives that make a common objective harder to achive.

Nationalism is nefarious and unnecessary.

What is your take on this cappies? Will you challenge my notions? If not, how do you reconcile your posture with the understanding that Nationalism is essentially aint-human? For is not humanity universal?

This is the only reply I can give to your contributions here.



The preservation of western values obviously means nothing to you, though I guess I'm not suprised.

Nations aren't just borders drawn on maps. They are areas where people share a common language, religion, history, heritage, and most importantly, a culture. True nations that is.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 7:58 am on April 13, 2003)

[Pete]

DC, most nationstates, though, consist of many nationalities.

[Anonymous]

Sudan, serbia, Iraq...I wouldn't consider any of these to be "true" nations. The U.S. is a real nation by the fact that the majority of Americans share the same basic values, the same language, the same history, and many of the same customs. When you come to this country you are assimilated. True, the American culture is an amalgamation of many other cultures ( albeit mostly of western origin) but it is a culture none the less.

Almost all of these "nationstates" that have a multicult society are either torn by civil strife or civil war, or are economically deprived.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 8:15 am on April 13, 2003)

[El Che]

Thats an interesting reply DC. At least you`re making an effort, I commend you for that.

I dislike the term "western values", it`s self righteous and unnecessary. It`s arrogant in a word. You can not lay claim to ideas as if you own them, you can not nationalize them. But in any case im curious as to how my ideas go against "western values". Perhaps you could elaborate on that.

You say that Nations are not merely political units but also cultural ones. Elementary my dear Watson. But look at your country for example, are you not made up of many different cultures? And aren`t you still a unit? Aren`t people all types of cultures capable of feeling the same pride to be American?


So Nation and Nationality is infact different from Culture, it`s just that they often coincide. Moreover people who live together tend to become more like each other over time. Culture evolves by absorving things from other cultures it comes in contact with. We have seen this through out History and we are seeing it now, today. Is it not plain to see that we are all coming to share the same culture?

But anyway I have nothing against culture or religion (ahem) or history. The point is you don`t need to divide mankind into Nations to have those things. People will still be different, religious and what have you. History changes, lets hope it changes for the better, lets hope the privitive concept of Nationality, which has caused so much death and destruction, can be put aside some time in the future.

[El Che]

lol, DC are you saying AMERICA isn`t a multicultural society!?

[Pete]

El Che, AMerica is a melting pot, where as Canada is commended by the UN as being a mosaic (having two of the most multicultural cities in the world...montreal and toronto)

[El Che]

Well that might be so but its still a multicultural society. Cultural difference is a good thing, it enriches society. No one here is saying anything against it, that simply is not the point so I didn`t mention it.

(Edited by El Che at 3:50 am on April 13, 2003)

[Boris Moskovitz]

Quote: from Bodacious on 3:51 am on April 13, 2003
Boris oh Boris .... did the government come snatch your ass out of your bed in the middle of the night and break your arm for saying Bush suck's?

Did your dad lose his job because he asked for a pay raise?

Was your mom hung on a light post for waving at a US Marine?


Moron, I've already explained, you just don't bother to read what I'm posting. And the Bush subject, I've already discussed about it, and I am sick and tired that nothing can get through you. It seems like you are asking the same question again and again.

GOD! Is it me, or is this guy a complete clueless moron?

[Bodacious]

trust me ...It's you.

You proved already your a brain dead 16 year snot nosed kid that has know clue what hes talking about. Like I said if all you can do is run your pigyapper about nonsense save it for Pete.Keep up the history lesson's who know's maybe when you hit 30 you'll be able too count to 100.

(Edited by Bodacious at 6:28 am on April 13, 2003)

[hazard]

b-o:

no, I think Muskovitz is correct. you are a complete moron.

[Boris Moskovitz]

Of course, I didn't asked which one of us is a moron, just to make sure, you should know that expression...

But you didn't even took an effort to read what I've posted and then you ask a question which I've awnsered long before. I still stick with my opinion towards you.

EDIT: Damnit! Anyway, you know who this is directed to ;)

Second EDIT: I might not know what I am talking about, but at least I am not a federal puppet. And moron, I do know history. It is time to use my smarter insults that I've stored in my mind for so long:

Bodacious, I would want to see things from your point of view, but I can't shove my head that far up my ass

And if I wanted to hear from an asshole, I would listen to myself fart.

Thank you,
Boris

(Edited by Boris Moskovitz at 10:36 am on April 13, 2003)

[Xvall]

I overlooked your age's ( Drake and Boris ) I didn't know you were both in school still ,or appear to be. But that's exactly my point. In America your allowed that luxury of freedom of speech. Alot of place's you would be beat , emprisoned or killed for that kind of outburst at the government.

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no problem with free speech and civil liberties. I simply disagree with many of the government's policies.

[lostsoul]

Quote: from Chiak47 on 3:45 pm on April 11, 2003
The shit,

The values that I hold true-stop at the man made borders..The lifestyle that I am used too is not available in most countrys due to the fact everyone is poor..

Thank you,
Kind Sir


that is why we all must work to change that. Either to make the poor richer...or to make the rich poorer.

[Felicia]

Quote: from Chiak47 on 12:23 pm on April 11, 2003
Felicia,

Yep my job has been targeted as of lately...Hours got cut...So I pissed off some RED and he thought it was cute to post that...I find it funny myself...LoL

Thanks,
Eric

aww, sorry about that, well I hope that things get better for you. :)
(that's the cappie thng to say right? oh well ) I would've responded sooner, but I forgot about this thread, lol

(Edited by felicia at 12:43 pm on April 16, 2003)