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Schrödinger's Cat
6th October 2008, 03:17
http://www.smallplanetinstitute.org/blog/thoughts.html

http://nancylebov.livejournal.com/107712.html
http://porkupineblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/italian-coop-movement.html

A market economy and capitalism are synonymous --- or at least joined at the hip. That's what most Americans grow up assuming. But it is not necessarily so. Capitalism -- control by those supplying the capital in order to return wealth to shareholders -- is only one way to drive a market.

Granted, it is hard to imagine another possibility for how an economy could work in the abstract. It helps to have a real-life example.

And now I do.

In May I spent five days in Emilia Romagna, a region of four million people in northern central Italy. There, over the last 150 years, a network of consumer, farmer and worker-driven cooperatives has come to generate 30 percent to 40 percent of the region's GDP. Two of every three people in Emilia Romagna are members of co-ops.

The region, whose hub city is Bologna, is home to 8,000 co-ops, producing everything from ceramics to fashion to specialty cheese. Their industriousness is woven into networks based on what cooperative leaders like to call "reciprocity." All co-ops return 3 percent of profits to a national fund for cooperative development, and the movement supports centers providing help in finance, marketing, research and technical expertise.

The presumption is that by aiding each other, all gain. And they have. Per person income is 50 percent higher in Emilia Romagna than the national average....

Another surprising feature of the culture is that, beginning in 1991, responsibility for social services in Emilia Romagna and other regions was transferred almost entirely to "social cooperatives."Emilia Romagna has a variety of capital intensive industries. Unionist workers started their own small shops and pioneered an economic experiment that has helped improved the lives of thousands. What's most interesting about this experience is that these cooperatives voluntarily coordinate activities between themselves.

This is a testament to both capitalists and Marxists that autonomous socialism is possible, and productive.

Trystan
6th October 2008, 03:57
Fascinating. I really need to know about this mutualist thing.

Dean
6th October 2008, 04:13
Why aren't you posting in "Economics"? Do you already fancy yourself to have an Opposing Ideology?

Schrödinger's Cat
6th October 2008, 05:20
It's too broad of a topic to be in economics. And I was addressing OIers. Thanks for the bold clarifications, though.

apathy maybe
6th October 2008, 10:51
Why aren't you posting in "Economics"? Do you already fancy yourself to have an Opposing Ideology?
Because no one reads that forum (partly because it's a sub-forum of Theory, which makes it harder to see). The people who suggested, and then voted for this forum are silly (and I've argued against the establishment of such a forum whenever it has come up (at least, when I was in the CC)).


As for the OP:

I've heard about this before. It's very interesting, and while it does provide an alternative to "capitalism", I would suggest that it is actually still largely capitalist, mainly because you can't escape capitalism.

But yes, mutualism is an alternative.

Self-Owner
6th October 2008, 13:57
This is a testament to both capitalists and Marxists that autonomous socialism is possible, and productive.


Great! If this is autonomous socialism, I'm all for it.

Demogorgon
6th October 2008, 14:11
It is very interesting indeed and a topic I have examined before. I am not sure if it is exactly mutualism, but it is along the same lines. At any rate it is only a partially socialist system, but still well worth investigating for its positive aspects.

Edited to add: It should be noted that Emilia Romagna is one of the richest regions in all of Europe and also has closest to the lowest unemployment rate. Plainly even partial socialism brings great benefits.

Green Dragon
6th October 2008, 14:19
http://www.smallplanetinstitute.org/blog/thoughts.html

http://nancylebov.livejournal.com/107712.html
http://porkupineblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/italian-coop-movement.htmlEmilia Romagna has a variety of capital intensive industries. Unionist workers started their own small shops and pioneered an economic experiment that has helped improved the lives of thousands. What's most interesting about this experience is that these cooperatives voluntarily coordinate activities between themselves.

This is a testament to both capitalists and Marxists that autonomous socialism is possible, and productive.


Northern Italy has always been the wealthier part of Italy. Basically what you are arguing for in "mutual socialism," isnwhat socialists in general often dissmiss about capitalism in general- that it is found in the wealthier countries, the ones with all the natural resources and advantages, therefore its success means nothing. Put socialism there and see what happens! runs the cant.

It also demonstrates that the success of the coops is determined upon its success in turning a profit. That is to say, the purpose of its production is for profit, not "need."

Socialists are of course quite free to define socialism however they wish. If you wish to claim that profit driven organisations, where 97% of the profits are kept by the owners, are a sterling example of socialism in action, so be it.

Schrödinger's Cat
6th October 2008, 20:58
Northern Italy has always been the wealthier part of Italy. Basically what you are arguing for in "mutual socialism," isnwhat socialists in general often dissmiss about capitalism in general- that it is found in the wealthier countries, the ones with all the natural resources and advantages, therefore its success means nothing. Put socialism there and see what happens! runs the cant.

I'm not part of the "socialist" consensus - whatever that is.

This isn't entirely mutualist, I agree - although it is very close. I'm not sure on the region's policy towards copyrights, patents, and land use.

EvigLidelse
6th October 2008, 21:20
Are stock holders essential to build a "capitalist company"?

danyboy27
6th October 2008, 21:49
wow, impressive!
so coexistance can exist after all!

Bud Struggle
6th October 2008, 21:53
I think that's freakin' brilliant. But you can say that this is a Capitalistic union of small business owners--not anything Socialistic. It just as a 3% insurance surcharge.

I do think that stuff like this not pure Capitalism or Communism is the wave of the future. Bothe capitalism and Communism relied on the uneducated working class to kame the system fundtion.

I would imagine that most of these people are reasonably educated modern euoprans.

I think the future is beyond the dreams of either Capitalism or Communism.

Dust Bunnies
6th October 2008, 23:17
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q221/Azeur/freaky/EpicWin.png

Green Dragon
8th October 2008, 14:54
I'm not part of the "socialist" consensus - whatever that is.

This isn't entirely mutualist, I agree - although it is very close. I'm not sure on the region's policy towards copyrights, patents, and land use.


Since Italy is a capitalist country (or a social democracy however you wish to frame it) I am sure it has to follow the laws regarding patents and land use. the co-ops certainly would own land, and then organise the ownership as they see best, no different in function than a capitalist might.

Schrödinger's Cat
8th October 2008, 22:04
Are stock holders essential to build a "capitalist company"?

No, although corporations as we (and Adam Smith!) know them are one defining aspect of capitalism. Technically you could have some form of capital pooling in a free society, but instead of the state socializing risk corporations would have to find liability insurance. And business personhood would be impossible.

It would also be impractical to "own" land. If you leave land vacant for five years, or monopolize on an oil field, people aren't going to respect your "property rights."

Dust Bunnies
8th October 2008, 23:47
Where is Captain Capitalist's response?

Dean
9th October 2008, 00:02
It's too broad of a topic to be in economics. And I was addressing OIers. Thanks for the bold clarifications, though.


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