Lenin: Revolutionary or Counter Revolutionary?

[PostAnarchy]

I always was under the assumption that he was in fact a revolutionary being that he started the USSR, like it or hate it, and was with the Bolsheviks who all my sources tell me was revolutionary. HOWEVER, I have read from at least one member here Devrim who said that he was in fact a counter revolutionary and a social democrat reformist.

So which is true? Is this really that controversial?

Thanks.!

[Die Neue Zeit]

Lenin was first and foremost a revolutionary centrist (not a vulgar centrist touting revolutionary and supporting opportunism, but a revolutionary centrist who eschewed coalitionism and "nothing but the mass strike"). This is something that left-communists don't like about him.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1203523&postcount=32

[Devrim]

HOWEVER, I have read from at least one member here Devrim who said that he was in fact a counter revolutionary and a social democrat reformist.

It is a bit out of context. We think that Lenin was a great revolutionary. Certainly there were times when he stood in the vanguard of the class.

That doesn't mean that he wasn't weighed down by social democratic ideology, and didn't, in the end, become a part of the counter revolution.

Devrim

[Yehuda Stern]

Some people, all for different reasons, say that Lenin was a counterrevolutionary, mainly Anarchists. Those same people fail to explain why it seems that in each revolution, they were on the side of reformism.

(I know the OP is an Obama bot - I just write this down for general discussion)

[Tower of Bebel]

Lenin was a Revolutionary. Even during the degeneration of the USSR most of his tactical retreats were temporarily (in context of the defeat of the International Revolution). Also, who was the main proponent of the split within the workers' movement and the October Revolution against opportunism? Yes, Lenin.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Does it matter?

The building blocks of understanding history, theory, and practice is not sticking to historical idealism ("Lenin smashed the soviets, so all state socialists will destroy any future revolution"), but to take what we need to conduct a revolutionary project in a successful way.

It's tiring (and unproductive) to have threads that constantly decipher whether this or that dead guy was 'revolutionary' or 'pro-worker' enough.

Lenin saw the logical and sole outcome of capitalist competition taken beyond the national sphere, into colonies, semi-colonies, etc. The algebra of capitalism -> imperialism -> war, truly revolutionized the face of left-wing politics. It gave a new face to everything. It requires (and required) activists to re-envision their tactics and overall strategy.

[Black Sheep]

It's tiring (and unproductive) to have threads that constantly decipher whether this or that dead guy was 'revolutionary' or 'pro-worker' enough.
Damn, i couldnt agree more.

Instead of deciding this or that guy was a role model or not,study his tactics and his proposals about the revolution, and adopt or reject them.
THEM, not HIM.

[Sprinkles]

I always was under the assumption that he was in fact a revolutionary being that he started the USSR, like it or hate it, and was with the Bolsheviks who all my sources tell me was revolutionary. HOWEVER, I have read from at least one member here Devrim who said that he was in fact a counter revolutionary and a social democrat reformist.

So which is true? Is this really that controversial?

Thanks.!

It's impossible to say whether as a whole Lenin was this or that, certainly since his theory was sometimes amended to fit practical needs, changes of the time and so on.

Leninism characterized the Russian Revolution as it unfolded at the time with all it's internal contradictions and already carrying the counter-revolution with it in it's conception.

It's more important to explain and understand Lenin than it is important to judge him.

[apathy maybe]

Some people, all for different reasons, say that Lenin was a counterrevolutionary, mainly Anarchists. Those same people fail to explain why it seems that in each revolution, they were on the side of reformism.

(I know the OP is an Obama bot - I just write this down for general discussion)

Come again?

If anarchists say that Lenin was a counter-revolutionary, it probably has to do with some of the actions undertaken by Lenin and Co during and after the October Coup.

These include such things are creating a massive state apparatus and then using it to attack workers.

As for anarchists supporting "reformism", I would be interested in what specifically you were thinking of when you said that. I can only think of Kropotkin supporting the Allies during the First World War (and he was widely condemned for having done so). But that's hardly supporting "reformism".

[Yehuda Stern]

As for anarchists supporting "reformism", I would be interested in what specifically you were thinking of when you said that. I can only think of Kropotkin supporting the Allies during the First World War

I was thinking of Spain.