Class Struggle in The US

[Drace]

There doesn't seem to be much oppression here. When people talk about the class struggle, it seems outdated to me.

And I just say this video to further convince me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6BPhJjYL4

[rebelworker]

There doesn't seem to be much oppression here. When people talk about the class struggle, it seems outdated to me.

And I just say this video to further convince me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6BPhJjYL4

Im not sure what you've done for work or what hood you live in, but there is my friend plenty of oppression in North America.

Dangerous working conditions
Low pay
High rent
No health Insurance or poor care when you get it.
Police harrasment
poor diet due to budget constraint.
No say in politics (you can die fighting, but you cant decide why ore where you fight).

These are just a few of the more common problems most working people face...

[ashaman1324]

how fucking awesome is google lol?
but i agree there is oppression here, not to the extent of say... darfur. but any oppression is oppression thats gotta go.

[The Something]

There doesn't seem to be much oppression here. When people talk about the class struggle, it seems outdated to me.

And I just say this video to further convince me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6BPhJjYL4

See now it is crap like this that really makes me mad. People over simplify things to the point of rediculous,"oh look heres one company that does everything for their employees so america is good".

Ok let's start with this:scale. Now compare the few thousand employees working there to the BILLIONS of people living in the world under poverty, oppression or worse. A drop in the bucket? Less than a drop.

Second, and this may be my personal view, but I think this is a major thing most "progressive" people seem to realize is that by chance a select group of people get to work for the company because of either the chance of being born near there or because they knew someone that knew someone that works there. Chance should not determine what one does in life. I fucking hate chance.(excuse my language)

Thirdly, this same "wonder company" is also the company that stores every single search of every user that is has ever had. Let that sink in for a moment, every search by everyone. Now imagine what the government or some intrusive ad agency conglomerate could do if it got it's hands on that kind of information? Scary.

Also lets not forget this company aids and abets governments suppressing information. Can we say Tianamen square? That's right, in order to have the governments permission to operate in China they had to PURPOSELY block searches for massacres performed by the chinese government.

Please if you wanna talk about google being a wonder company I think you are on the wrong forum my friend. That sort of short sighted, propaganda induced theory that they make the world a better place is bullshit.

Edit: also just because you cannot see your chains because of how society and the media has conditioned you doesn't mean they are not real. Ask a women in the late 1800's if she felt oppressed because she couldn't vote. The overwhelming answer would be no because of conditioning and seeing "the good things and the good ole times everyone was having"

Cheers.

[The Douche]

There doesn't seem to be much oppression here. When people talk about the class struggle, it seems outdated to me.

And I just say this video to further convince me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6BPhJjYL4

Do you work there? Does your job treat you like that?

Most people I know get fucked by thier employers. I worked 45 hours a week at minimum wage with no benefits of any sort, and no consistent schedule, sometimes having to close (not leaving till 11 pm) and then having to open the next day (showing up at 4 am).

In the United States, as of 2006, one out of every eight people was below the offical poverty threshold which is set by the government.

If you don't think opression exists, thats only because you're not exposed to it.

[Yehuda Stern]

I think it's necessary to point out that there's a difference between exploitation and oppression. All workers are exploited in the sense that their labor is used to produce surplus value. But white workers in America, Jewish workers in Israel, etc. are not oppressed under normal circumstances. For example, a black capitalist in America is oppressed but not exploited, because although he is part of the ruling class, he faces discrimination; a black worker is exploited and oppressed, while white workers are exploited but not oppressed.

Considering that, there is certainly a lot of oppression in the US: against black people, Latinos, Muslims, Arabs, and to an extent Jews as well. But being oppressed, or even being exploited, does not necessarily lead to class struggle* - Jewish Israeli workers have been exploited for decades and have never risen against the state. Mizrahi workers (i.e. workers whose origins are in Muslim or Arab countries) are exploited and oppressed, but only had one movement, which was very moderate and mostly just demanded a piece of the pie. The class struggle can be fought be a class with a historic interest to overthrow capitalism. The only modern class with such an interest is the working class. As capitalism must exploit the workers, and step up this exploitation at times, there is no way of doing away with the class struggle in the US.

*I use 'class struggle' here in the sense of an actual movement of the class. Of course the class struggle, in the sense of hostile classes seeking to appropriate as much surplus value as possible, is continuous in all class societies.

[The Something]

I would also like to quickly point out a very little things called dividends and capital gains, which because our wonderfull government get taxed less than actual pay so because they have ammased so much wealth they can amass even more and pay less taxes by just having money! You tell me if that makes any sense what-so ever.

Because they own paper in a bank they pay less on their taxes than say the (insert 98% of job titles here). Seem fair? I thought so. Money making more money by doing nothing makes perfect sense. I may be over simplifing this also, but i think i explained it well enough to get the point across.

[Drace]

See now it is crap like this that really makes me mad. People over simplify things to the point of rediculous,"oh look heres one company that does everything for their employees so america is good".

That was just an example. Of course not all companies are like that, but I certainly don't see what all the oppression talk is about.

I do live in a city, and life is good for pretty much anyone here...



Ok let's start with this:scale. Now compare the few thousand employees working there to the BILLIONS of people living in the world under poverty, oppression or worse. A drop in the bucket? Less than a drop.

Thats why I said IN THE US. Although I have heard things along the lines that the Us is wealthy enough to buy off its proletarians. So this is another thing I'm asking.

Are the other nations worse off because of the US's condition?



Also lets not forget this company aids and abets governments suppressing information. Can we say Tianamen square? That's right, in order to have the governments permission to operate in China they had to PURPOSELY block searches for massacres performed by the chinese government.

Sorry, but can you clarify? Didn't quite get what your saying.



Edit: also just because you cannot see your chains because of how society and the media has conditioned you doesn't mean they are not real. Ask a women in the late 1800's if she felt oppressed because she couldn't vote. The overwhelming answer would be no because of conditioning and seeing "the good things and the good ole times everyone was having"


But if this women does not care about it, why even call it oppression> Even if you are being exploited of ALL your labor, but are as happy as you can be. Its still exploitation, but what negative effects does it have?

[The Something]

That was just an example. Of course not all companies are like that, but I certainly don't see what all the oppression talk is about.

I do live in a city, and life is good for pretty much anyone here...
I live in buffalo, come take a stroll with me down to the east side and tell me how it is possible in the great country of america to let people live in the shit holes they do.





Thats why I said IN THE US. Although I have heard things along the lines that the Us is wealthy enough to buy off its proletarians. So this is another thing I'm asking.

Are the other nations worse off because of the US's condition?

Are you kidding me right now? Are other nations worse off because of the U.S.????

YES, we exploit and in turn oppress workers in other countries by our over consuming fat asses wanting the best and cheapest products. Look at your clothing or electronics fuck look at anything and see if it was made in the U.S. Other countries keep wages low so they can trade with the U.S. and they make money off us buying their shit because they pay their workers what we would consider appauling.





Sorry, but can you clarify? Didn't quite get what your saying.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5055170.stm



But if this women does not care about it, why even call it oppression> Even if you are being exploited of ALL your labor, but are as happy as you can be. Its still exploitation, but what negative effects does it have


It is oppression of her mind. Let me elaborate: Snhe beleives it is normal to, as a women, not vote. No one is telling her or showing her otherwise so they as a whole gender have been marginalized by "mainstream" thought.

And if i have to sit here and explain to you that exploitation has negative affects I'm afraid I don't have the patience or the willpower to not type swear words at ylou right now for typing such an ignorant sentance.

[Drace]

Are you kidding me right now? Are other nations worse off because of the U.S.????

I was asking for some useful links on the topic.

I surely would appreciate a much more friendlier response >_>


http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/as...ic/5055170.stm (http://www.anonym.to/?http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5055170.stm)

Didn't work.


And if i have to sit here and explain to you that exploitation has negative affects I'm afraid I don't have the patience or the willpower to not type swear words at ylou right now for typing such an ignorant sentance.

Well duh exploitation has negative effects...
But I was using the question in relation with my statement.

Ill just discard it if you'd like.

[The Something]

I was asking for some useful links on the topic.

I surely would appreciate a much more friendlier response >_>



Didn't work.



Well duh exploitation has negative effects...
But I was using the question in relation with my statement.

Ill just discard it if you'd like.

Fixed the link.

As for the U.S. making countries worse you have to understand just because the country as a whole trades more money and products does not mean that the mass people of that country are any better off.

The WTO sets law and regulations over issues of global trade ect. it is quite clear that they (heavily influenced by the U.S.) set up laws so as to exploit workers of other countries (Thank you Clinton! /sarcasm)

Not only that, but why do you think there is so little regulation of all the sweatshop made items in other countries that come here? We don't enforce it because too many people make too much money at the top of the proverbial food chain. Lobbiests anyone? Yep thanks to them too.

[Yehuda Stern]

But if this women does not care about it, why even call it oppression> Even if you are being exploited of ALL your labor, but are as happy as you can be. Its still exploitation, but what negative effects does it have

Well, the fact is that women eventually fought to be able to vote, and workers eventually fight against attacks on their living standards. Humans as a rule do not accept oppression indefinitely if they believe that there is an alternative.

[ashaman1324]

Well, the fact is that women eventually fought to be able to vote, and workers eventually fight against attacks on their living standards. Humans as a rule do not accept oppression indefinitely if they believe that there is an alternative.
wow.
i agree with you on this one.

[The Douche]

As I stated in my first reply, which you convieniently did not reply to:


In the United States, as of 2006, one out of every eight people was below the offical poverty threshold which is set by the government.


Yet you say oppression is not existent?

[#FF0000]

As I stated in my first reply, which you convieniently did not reply to:



Yet you say oppression is not existent?

By the way, the poverty line set by the government is absurdly low. A friend of mine struggled to afford food, but was still above the poverty line according to the government.

[Sendo]

indications of poverty are woefully otudated. Food stamp qualifications still carry over from 1996 or something like that. Not to mention how incredibly narrow the definition of "unemployment" is. If the US admits something's amiss, you can be damned sure there's a disaster.