self defined 'working class' exploits itself

[Ken]

why do you continue to work and support capitalism, when you are aware of its evils? do you really believe in communism, are you actually doing anything revolutionary, or is it just a pipe dream?

why is your avatar, your jeans, and your myspace profile plastered with hammers and sickles and circles with A's, when you devote ten, fifteen, or forty-five hours a week to the very evil you claim to be 'fighting' against?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Because the alternative is wandering round cornwall bollock naked with a hammer and sickel pained onto our chests with sheeps blood and screaming lines from the communist manifesto before going back to our caves.

Now fuck off.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

why do you continue to work and support capitalism, when you are aware of its evils? do you really believe in communism, are you actually doing anything revolutionary, or is it just a pipe dream?

why is your avatar, your jeans, and your myspace profile plastered with hammers and sickles and circles with A's, when you devote ten, fifteen, or forty-five hours a week to the very evil you claim to be 'fighting' against?

Because if we didn't, we wouldn't have any money to eat, pay our rent, and generally live.

Next fucking stupid question.

[Ken]

Because if we didn't, we wouldn't have any money to eat, pay our rent, and generally live.

Next fucking stupid question.

you need to keep working to pay your rent? you cant eat with out capitalism? so you need capitalism to live?

stupid question hey? interesting.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

you need to keep working to pay your rent? you cant eat with out capitalism? so you need capitalism to live?

stupid question hey? interesting.

How about you stop fucking about and tell us what's really on your mind, you insufferable cretin?

[Knight of Cydonia]

why do you continue to work and support capitalism, when you are aware of its evils? do you really believe in communism, are you actually doing anything revolutionary, or is it just a pipe dream?

why is your avatar, your jeans, and your myspace profile plastered with hammers and sickles and circles with A's, when you devote ten, fifteen, or forty-five hours a week to the very evil you claim to be 'fighting' against?
so what?!
and why do you bother asking?

we work under capitalism, is true but how we work is so against the capitalist way.

[Ken]

i have come to tell you that as long as you work, you pay rent, and you buy food from the supermarket, there will never be a communist utopia.

there are leftists and there are the ones in power. both are minorities, and the complacent majority sits in the middle. the leftists claim to be fighting against capitalism, yet they hold middle class bourgeois jobs. Comrade Joe and Noxion cannot imagine a world without capitalism, because they need to pay rent, to keep working! because thats how they eat! the ones in power are stoic and unfaltering. they have the complacent majority on their side. they must keep watch over the leftists, to keep them working, and they must make sure the majority dont become leftists. they leftists work for them so they are invincible!

Edit: look at my postcount!

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

i have come to tell you that as long as you work, you pay rent, and you buy food from the supermarket, there will never be a communist utopia.

there are leftists and there are the ones in power. both are minorities, and the complacent majority sits in the middle. the leftists claim to be fighting against capitalism, yet they hold middle class bourgeois jobs. Comrade Joe and Noxion cannot imagine a world without capitalism, because they need to pay rent, to keep working! because thats how they eat! the ones in power are stoic and unfaltering. they have the complacent majority on their side. they must keep watch over the leftists, to keep them working, and they must make sure the majority dont become leftists. they leftists work for them so they are invincible!

Must be why the Tsar is still in power n all cuz you know he had a load of people working for him,

[Knight of Cydonia]

i have come to tell you that as long as you work, you pay rent, and you buy food from the supermarket, there will never be a communist utopia.
oh yes there will be, as long as people kept stealing from their oppressing boss, looting from the supermarket (and don't tell me that you never do a looting job in the supermarket even for a chocolate bar).


there are leftists and there are the ones in power. both are minorities, and the complacent majority sits in the middle. the leftists claim to be fighting against capitalism, yet they hold middle class bourgeois jobs. Comrade Joe and Noxion cannot imagine a world without capitalism, because they need to pay rent, to keep working! because thats how they eat! the ones in power are stoic and unfaltering. they have the complacent majority on their side. they must keep watch over the leftists, to keep them working, and they must make sure the majority dont become leftists. they leftists work for them so they are invincible!

Edit: look at my postcount!
can you show us the alternative way on how we eat and pay the damn rent beside working to get money? what? being a robber/burglar, like your kind?

[Forward Union]

you need to keep working to pay your rent? you cant eat with out capitalism? so you need capitalism to live?

stupid question hey? interesting.

Well yea, that's our principal, core objection to capitalism. The capitalists control all the things we need to live, and force us to work to get a small percentage back.

What is wrong with you?



i have come to tell you that as long as you work, you pay rent, and you buy food from the supermarket, there will never be a communist utopia.


Not if we can't organise our workplaces and kick the bosses out and run it ourselves. I don't see how the fact that we live in a capitalist system now means we will never move on from it. I mean, in Feudal times, the serfs worked the land endlesly for the baron, but still managed to overthrow their kings at a later time. Its our participation in the economy that will give us the means to overthrow them.

[Trystan]

you need to keep working to pay your rent? you cant eat with out capitalism? so you need capitalism to live?

stupid question hey? interesting.

No, we need food and shelter. Duh.

But by your logic the people in the Eastern Block needed "communism" to live. Ungrateful sods.

[Ken]

oh yes there will be, as long as people kept stealing from their oppressing boss, looting from the supermarket (and don't tell me that you never do a looting job in the supermarket even for a chocolate bar).

stealing from the oppressive boss? i thought most communists would say the bosses are stealing from the workers. sarcasm wins no arguments. but you seem to excel at it.

dont steal from the oppressive bosses! thats morally wrong! work for them, so we can buy chocolate bars! yay! oppression!


can you show us the alternative way on how we eat and pay the damn rent beside working to get money? what? being a robber/burglar, like your kind?

clearly you havent thought about it. it seems that you work to support capitalism, because you have no idea what you would do if you didnt work.

[Ken]

Well yea, that's our principal, core objection to capitalism. The capitalists control all the things we need to live, and force us to work to get a small percentage back.

What is wrong with you?



Not if we can't organise our workplaces and kick the bosses out and run it ourselves. I don't see how the fact that we live in a capitalist system now means we will never move on from it. I mean, in Feudal times, the serfs worked the land endlesly for the baron, but still managed to overthrow their kings at a later time. Its our participation in the economy that will give us the means to overthrow them.

the difference between now and feudal times is technology, and the sheer magnitude of power over the masses from the oppressors. most indian nations of new england were monarchies, and italian renaissance cities were controlled by dictators. these were not called totalitarian because the technology of the times was not great. nowadays we have modern, well organized police forces, rapid long distance communications, security cameras, dossiers of information on citizens.

your participation in the economy only strengthens the power of today's capitalist tyrants. they will do anything to stay in power. what makes you think working and contributing to the economy, can be not counter revolutionary?

first world employees are what MNC's need to survive. working is fortifying their bases, supplying their bullets, paying for the body bags... there's no way around it.

[RGacky3]

dont steal from the oppressive bosses! thats morally wrong! work for them, so we can buy chocolate bars! yay! oppression!

Its not morally wrong, its legally wrong, techinically they are stealing from us by taking profit from our work, and we have to work for them because they control everything, and have the law (aka guns) on their side.


clearly you havent thought about it. it seems that you work to support capitalism, because you have no idea what you would do if you didnt work.

I don't meen to be rude, but your an idiot, you are so stupid its almost rediculous. WORKING =/= CAPITALISM, profit and property do, thats what we are against, our communism is where everyone works together as free agents in solidarity, not work for a tyrannical boss who uses us to get profit and power.

Not working wouldn't solve anything, it would just leave us with nothing. The solution is to work, and slowly take over our work, i.e. through industrial action and solidarity.

[freakazoid]

you need to keep working to pay your rent? you cant eat with out capitalism? so you need capitalism to live?

stupid question hey? interesting.

ROFL, are you serious!? Capitalism has set itself up to force us to participate in it or starve, and those who try to live outside the system often have there houses burned down and pushed in by tanks.

[Bud Struggle]

I don't see this as a real argument. People have to do what they have to do to survive.

Just look at all those high ranking Soviets officials that pretended to be Communists in order to get along--then after the Velvet Revolution were able to become their true selves--first rate Chicago School Capitalists. :lol:

[Trystan]

Is Ken a primitivism?

[Dust Bunnies]

Is Ken a primitivism?

I believe so.


Ken, hate to break the news to you, but we all don't know how to survive off the land, and if we were to go somewhere and begin farming we would get shot by the government.

[Organic Revolution]

There are some major misunderstandings within you post, ken, such as a deep misunderstanding of radical politics, or politics in general.

If you had a better understanding of radical politics, you would understand that anarchists and communists don't want to junk the production, they want to junk the apparatuses which perpetuate this economic and social inequality and oppression.

[Trystan]

I believe so.


Ken, hate to break the news to you, but we all don't know how to survive off the land, and if we were to go somewhere and begin farming we would get shot by the government.

Ah excellent. Destroy technology! Just give me a few more minutes on the net, first.:rolleyes:

[Dust Bunnies]

I have an idea Ken, why not just live the way your telling us to for a year or so. Once the year is up come back to civilization and tell us what it was like so that we may be converted.

[JimmyJazz]

I'll bite.

Socialists want to eliminate hierarchical social relations in the production (i.e. work) process. They don't have anything against production per se. You are confusing socialists with radical environmentalists--but the two groups are opposed to capitalism for different reasons.

I actually agree that a moral/conscious person living in the West must consume less than the average Westerner does. However, this is for purely environmental reasons and has nothing to do with socialism.

[Ken]

There are some major misunderstandings within you post, ken, such as a deep misunderstanding of radical politics, or politics in general.

If you had a better understanding of radical politics, you would understand that anarchists and communists don't want to junk the production, they want to junk the apparatuses which perpetuate this economic and social inequality and oppression.

thanks for that... it just doesnt seem to me that there is any way out for commies. one very powerful minority against an extremely weak minority. working for them only perpetuates the struggle.

still, nobody has answered the question i posed in another thread. from a revolutionary viewpoint, which is better; the timber lobbyist or average worker? should commies not reach for higher positions?

[danyboy27]

thanks for that... it just doesnt seem to me that there is any way out for commies. one very powerful minority against an extremely weak minority. working for them only perpetuates the struggle.

still, nobody has answered the question i posed in another thread. from a revolutionary viewpoint, which is better; the timber lobbyist or average worker? should commies not reach for higher positions?

i seriously think that leftists should do pragmatic stuff like reaching higher position and play the bourgeois and rulling class in order to control society, Seriously it sound like a conspiracy but could work, imagine an organisation of worldwide leftist with men in all developping spheres, from politics to art to technology.
who care boeing is an evil imperialist buisness,if you work there has an engineer, you can reap the fruits of imperialist studies and give it to the world off the internet, Its illegal of course, but i doubt the guys who sent f-14 parts in Iran felt in any troubles.
Peoples here already know my position, so i will abstain to express my real mind on what i think about the currents leftist action i can see everyday.

[Ken]

I have an idea Ken, why not just live the way your telling us to for a year or so. Once the year is up come back to civilization and tell us what it was like so that we may be converted.

ill be leaving in a month to travel for a while so hey, i guess i could call myself a primitivist :) i looked it up on the net and apparantly the feeling of being 'drawn back to the wild...' is very common in the west.

i could call myself a primitivist then. it doesnt seem to make sense to me why a lot of people call themselves communists or anarchists(ignoring the ones that are teenagers). are you a commie just because you believe? what about someone who believes he is a commie but does nothing about it, while capitalism rolls forward and the rich get richer. i know a couple of anarchists who work at bunnings warehouse. imo i would only accept a person as anarchist after seeing them take a sledgehammer to a corporate building. complaining, reading, writing, then protesting doesnt make a person revolutionary if they finish work on a friday to get drunk and the next day buy groceries... supporting MNC's and third world exploitation.

maybe this sounds childish and puerile but... cant we just kill them all? blow up the buildings with politicians and other bourgeoise in them. a lot of people who arent leftists realize the world isnt all soft and fuzzy...

although im skeptical about communism, more about the 'scene', about people and the methods they choose, rather than actual revolutionary theory. i dont think primitivism or anarchism can work on a global scale because with so many people(Earth is overpopulated, do not tell me otherwise), a strong system must be in place to harness the means of production. but i personally i will be choosing primitivism for now because i feel alienated by the west, and from the left too.

[freakazoid]

I see that you have skipped over my post, it makes me sad :crying:


ill be leaving in a month to travel for a while so hey, i guess i could call myself a primitivist http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_smile.gif i looked it up on the net and apparantly the feeling of being 'drawn back to the wild...' is very common in the west.

There is WAY more to it than that. Some primitivists in there natural habitat, http://www.break.com/index/hippies-wail-for-dead-trees.html


more about the 'scene', about people and the methods they choose, rather than actual revolutionary theory

Those would be smelly hippies, :D Hey man, if we all just stand together getting high and listen to some groovy music it will change the world. :rolleyes:

[Incendiarism]

there is way more to it than that. Some primitivists in there natural habitat, http://www.break.com/index/hippies-wail-for-dead-trees.html

lol