Capitalist propaganda: Why do people do it?

[spice756]

Why do people want to look good?Is it part of capitalism propaganda? why spend so much money on clothing? Why do we need so much clothing?

Is 5 pants and 5 tops good enough? Why do we need more?Why not wear the same clothes over and over? Why not get clothes at a free-market or charity hand outs.


Is it capitalism propaganda that is saying we need lots of clothes and spend lots of money on it to look good? Why do people want to look good?

Why do people want to own a car? Because capitalism propaganda is saying your life is only going to be good if you own a car?

Or is this a culture thing or part of are DNA?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It's fairly simple actually. The more money you have, the more status you have. In order to actually demonstrate your wealth and therefore your status, conspicuous consumption is encouraged as it makes the capitalists more money.

[spice756]

It's fairly simple actually. The more money you have, the more status you have. In order to actually demonstrate your wealth and therefore your status, conspicuous consumption is encouraged as it makes the capitalists more money.

So the captalists use propaganda saying you need lots of clothes and spend lots of money on it because you cannot look like a homeless person or street person.

And the captalists brainwash the people.

[Everyday Anarchy]

So the captalists use propaganda saying you need lots of clothes and spend lots of money on it because you cannot look like a homeless person or street person.

And the captalists brainwash the people.
Let's get this straight. There is no capitalist conspiracy where they get together and discuss new tactics to "brainwash" the proles.

It's just consumerism. It has somewhat to do with the idea that money equals status, and conspicuous consumption is the easiest way to demonstrate that status.

[spice756]

Let's get this straight. There is no capitalist conspiracy where they get together and discuss new tactics to "brainwash" the proles.

It's just consumerism. It has somewhat to do with the idea that money equals status, and conspicuous consumption is the easiest way to demonstrate that status.



Yes it called brainwashing people by adervertisment.How do you think capitalist make money.Try these pants for $$$ money they are so good.

They don't advertise for the poor and street people cause they want profit and lots of profit.The consumerism is just one thing the capitalist want to be rich but the type of consumerism will make them rich too.

People are not born and say I need a car and lots of clothing:lol:Or I have to look good?

When you are 4 you don't ever understand what is good or what street people look like or what poor people look like.That mean media or adervertisment by the capitalist explain it to you.





It's just consumerism. It has somewhat to do with the idea that money equals status, and conspicuous consumption is the easiest way to demonstrate that status.


And thanks to the media and adervertisment people are brainwashing to believe this.Why because at 4 you do not understand this at all.

[Trystan]

For me, three pairs of underwear is all I ask of the capitalist system.

[Incendiarism]

It's fairly simple actually. The more money you have, the more status you have. In order to actually demonstrate your wealth and therefore your status, conspicuous consumption is encouraged as it makes the capitalists more money.

Veblen!

[butterfly]

We've been conditioned (taught) to project our identity onto consumer good's.
It's an expression of identity and a pathetic one at that.

[fabiansocialist]

Let's get this straight. There is no capitalist conspiracy where they get together and discuss new tactics to "brainwash" the proles.

It's just consumerism. It has somewhat to do with the idea that money equals status, and conspicuous consumption is the easiest way to demonstrate that status.

Consumerism is a (tacit) capitalist conspiracy. See it from their point of view: they need to move all those Levis, Nikes, Sonys, and Lexuses. Branding and associating brands with specific lifestyles is part of the capitalist game. If the proles fall for it, remember that it takes two to tango.

[Bilan]

Moved to Politics.

[ComradeOm]

And thanks to the media and adervertisment people are brainwashing to believe this.Why because at 4 you do not understand this at all.You'd do well to read up on Gramsci's theories on cultural hegemony. Its essentially how certain core ideals/beliefs defined by the ruling class become commonly accepted by society at large. Needless to say this is entirely more complex than a simple assertion of "brainwashing"

[BraneMatter]

There is no capitalist conspiracy where they get together and discuss new tactics to "brainwash" the proles.



So there is no brainwashing by the politicians and the corporate media? Have you ever listened to George Bush talk, or Condy Rice, or Henry Kissinger, or watched Sean Hannity on the Fix News channel? The propaganda on CNBC business channel in favor of "free market" capitalism and the Wall Street bailout has been unrelenting. The Wall Street crowd and the business reporters who cover them are VERY conscious of defending capitalist interests by manipulating public opinion. They are all blaming the crisis on too much government regulation of the market, and the poor banks were being forced into becoming instruments of Marxist social engineering by requiring them to provide housing loans for the poor and racial minorities. So it's all a damnable commie plot. THAT'S conscious propaganda!

Of course it is conscious, it's just the capitalist system protecting itself. It does not always require a smoke-filled room, it just comes naturally as the defense mechanisms of the bourgeoisie.

As far as smoke-filled rooms go, try the Bilderberger or Davos get-togethers, or a Bush cabinet meeting. The PNAC (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) documents certainly show that there is a conscious neo-fascist conspiracy for a global empire, AND CONSCIOUS MANIPULATION. Think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute (http://www.aei.org/)exist for the purpose of coordinating plans and propaganda.

Or try this old anti-communist propaganda cartoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_DaMKUP3Og)on for size!

[Yehuda Stern]

I do not like the theory that imperialism acts through conspiracies - it sends the message that we are simply ruled by bad capitalists and that that could be improved by replacing them with good capitalists. No, people don't support capitalism and imperialism just because they're brainwashed. That's an important factor, but the most important factor is the material factor - the fact that workers in imperialist countries are in an aristocratic relationship with workers of ethnic minorities and of the third world.

[berlitz23]

Well to a degree it's consumerism and partially intrinsic. We view ourselves as objects precipitating us to construct ourselves as items in other people's world and our aptitude for consumerism emerges as well. Honestly, people will never be genuiely be comfortable with each other as well, Sartre was right when he said "Other People Are Hell." Then I agree with the originial poster on Marcuse's hypothesis about Western Culture is correct, we live in a one-dimensional society where people are programmed to consume in conjunction with major industries of diversions like Sports, Gambling, in reality things that are tenous. Marx said the three elements a self-sustaining Capitalism are Superstructure, Consumerism, and Surplus Value and every day these elements are adequately met. Overall, I'd say it's an almagamation of elements that are blighting our hopes of revolution, even with our crises. We have a machiavellian type election, where most of us are voting for someone we dislike, therefore defeating the whole concept of democracy.

[chegitz guevara]

People trying to "dress for success" has been going on almost as long as there has been people dressing. This seems to be a normal and natural state of affairs among humans. What capitalism does is, is attempt to co-opt and manipulate this human desire, to extend it and deepen it. Instead of us deciding ourselves what we like, there is a fashion industry, which manipulates people into changing whole wardrobes every few months, and making the rest of us feel like shit for not doing so.

Don't forget that modern capitalism, is, in a very real sense, founded on clothing. The first automated machinery was the Jacquard loom. Steam engines were used for spinning wool. England conquered India in order to have a captive market for clothes. Egypt was conquered for cotton, and the American civil war was fought over cotton (both over the ownership of the workers and tariffs).

Personally, I think commies and revolutionaries ought to dress a lot better than they do.

[Tower of Bebel]

We try to look good because we want to survive (as a species). We want to look good because we want to be/feel being appreciated, because we want more self-esteem, and because we want success.

Since capitalism is a production relation - and therefor social relation - it also reflects and acts upon this aspect of "human nature". Consumption or clothing isn't capitalist (you might want to know that even in the Dark Ages people were wearing cloths!), yet capitalism has a big influence in the way and scale of our consumption. This influence is so important that we even have a word for it: consumerism.

You people should not be ashamed of yourselves. If you want to look good, then go out and do your best. Capitalists are exploiters labour, not people with a nice car or looks. Workers are exploited by capital not clothing.

[BraneMatter]

I do not like the theory that imperialism acts through conspiracies - it sends the message that we are simply ruled by bad capitalists and that that could be improved by replacing them with good capitalists. No, people don't support capitalism and imperialism just because they're brainwashed. That's an important factor, but the most important factor is the material factor - the fact that workers in imperialist countries are in an aristocratic relationship with workers of ethnic minorities and of the third world.


Understand. And I suppose it could be misleading to some people. I also agree about the materialistic factor being at the heart, and the aristocratic position of "first world" workers.

I would contend, rather, that the tendency to conspire and propagandize is inherent in a class struggle and in bourgeois exploitation, as the words "struggle" and "exploitation might imply.

In other words, it is indeed not a question of good vs. bad capitalists, but rather of something inherent to capitalism itself, i.e. class struggle and exploitation. Conspiracy, struggle, exploitation, propaganda... these are all TACTICS and terms of warfare and conquest. Conspiracy and propaganda are tools the capitalists USE. They "conspire" to hang onto power and win the class struggle.

As it says on an IWW button I have, "Capitalism cannot be reformed." Marxists, of course, understand this, but others believe capitalism can be reformed. The solution is to correct that misconception, and realize that the capitalist will use EVERY tool to hang onto power and defeat the revolution.

[Yehuda Stern]

We try to look good because we want to survive (as a species). We want to look good because we want to be/feel being appreciated, because we want more self-esteem, and because we want success.

Nah, but in modern society things have long since gone further than normal. The way people starve themselves and obsess about their looks reflect a truly degenerate society, not a natural human condition. For example, even earlier under modern capitalism, the standard for being thin was much less harsh than it is today.


Conspiracy and propaganda are tools the capitalists USE. They "conspire" to hang onto power and win the class struggle.

First of all, I agree with your post on everything but one point. It's not that all first world workers are aristocratic - some layers are aristocratic, and even though all white workers are relatively privileged, they're not part of the labor aristocracy. They still have a clear revolutionary interest, like any other worker.

Second, it's true the capitalists always use conspiracies and there are many conspiracies in the histories of the US, Israel, Britain, France... the list goes on. I just don't like the perception here that people support capitalism because they're brainwashed or because of conspiracies. They support imperialism because of a very real material interest.

[Drace]

We try to look good because we want to survive (as a species). We want to look good because we want to be/feel being appreciated, because we want more self-esteem, and because we want success.

We want to be equal.
So it all comes down to what is available. If the kids at school are wearing million dollar cloths, you'd feel bad wearing anything underneath that. But if they were wearing $10 clothes, you'd be just fine.

So if your appeal was same as of the others, you'd have no natural impulse to drive you to buy much better things...

Or I can explain it this way....

If there were no IPhones, people would be just fine with Ipod touches. If there were no Ipod touches, they'd be fine with cheap Mp 3 players. Hell, people were happy when there wasn't any of this at all.

Its natural to go for the cooler things of course, so all the capitalist has to do is advertise a better or rather, a more 'attractive' product.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Why do people want to look good?Is it part of capitalism propaganda? why spend so much money on clothing? Why do we need so much clothing?

Is 5 pants and 5 tops good enough? Why do we need more?Why not wear the same clothes over and over? Why not get clothes at a free-market or charity hand outs.


Is it capitalism propaganda that is saying we need lots of clothes and spend lots of money on it to look good? Why do people want to look good?

Why do people want to own a car? Because capitalism propaganda is saying your life is only going to be good if you own a car?

Or is this a culture thing or part of are DNA?
It's no conspiracy, but it's definately a cosnequence of capitalism: the consumerist society. The capitalist society worhips money, and those who ra e within this system do everything to show off their wealth.
Quite pathetic actually.

[BraneMatter]

They support imperialism because of a very real material interest.

I think that states it exactly.



First of all, I agree with your post on everything but one point. It's not that all first world workers are aristocratic - some layers are aristocratic, and even though all white workers are relatively privileged, they're not part of the labor aristocracy. They still have a clear revolutionary interest, like any other worker.



Well, given the history of European and American imperialism and colonialism, have not white workers especially been the beneficiaries? And doesn't the class interest evidence itself mostly among the bottom layer of poor whites and the racial minorities? Would that be how you see the layers?

[Yehuda Stern]

Well, given the history of European and American imperialism and colonialism, have not white workers especially been the beneficiaries?

Well yeah, but there's a difference between being aristocratic in an absolute and a relative way. That's like saying, this worker is richer than that worker, therefore he is rich. No, it just means that that worker, for whatever reasons, is better off than the other one. In the same way, the common white worker is aristocratic in relation to a black worker - he faces no race based discrimination and on average makes more money and so on. But he is not part of the aristocracy - that place is saved for the higher echelons of the working class, for example white collar workers and trade union bureaucrats.

So, to put it in a more straightforward way - have white workers benefited from imperialism and colonialism? Yes. Do they have an interest in maintaining the imperialist system? Mostly, no, though the way they profit from it makes it harder for them to adopt a revolutionary consciousness.


And doesn't the class interest evidence itself mostly among the bottom layer of poor whites and the racial minorities?

Not necessarily. Many factors, including historical ones, determine where the vanguard is created. In many cases it grows from workers in industries with a more militant past; in many cases, as you said, among oppressed workers from social minorities. Either way, it's not so clear cut.

[cyu]

Yes it called brainwashing people by adervertisment.How do you think capitalist make money.Try these pants for $$$ money they are so good.

They don't advertise for the poor and street people cause they want profit and lots of profit.

You've hit the nail right on the head. The media basically controls what most believe in the culture want and believe. If you have a mass media dominated by Hindu and Buddhist teachings, then most people in that country will grow up to be Hindus and Buddhists. If you have a mass media proclaiming the glories of their constitution, then most people in that country will grow up to think their constitution is better than the ones in most other countries.

What happens in a consumer culture? Well, the mass media basically happens to be funded by advertisements. So the primary message most people in that culture get is to want want want. There are counterbalancing forces however. For example, many religions favor frugality and oppose greed - so the question becomes: are most of the messages that people hear dominated by the advertisers or the preachers? And if it's the preachers, are most of the preachers preaching against consumerism, or are they busy preaching about other things?

[spice756]

People trying to "dress for success" has been going on almost as long as there has been people dressing. This seems to be a normal and natural state of affairs among humans. What capitalism does is, is attempt to co-opt and manipulate this human desire, to extend it and deepen it. Instead of us deciding ourselves what we like, there is a fashion industry, which manipulates people into changing whole wardrobes every few months, and making the rest of us feel like shit for not doing so.


Yes most of this dress for success or dress to look like you are rich is because of the class struggle.The rich and upper class did don't want to look like the poor,homeless or street people so came up with their own look .And use the media and advertising to distinct between the two looks.Over years people where taught about the different looks.:(Now fashion is just other money making for the capitalists.It not uncommon for pop stars to spend over million dollars on clothing.Like how sick is that.

Under communism people will not own car there will be free transit.The city will be built for people in mind and not car centric.People will do other things to feel good than consumerism or materialism.

Under communism consumerism or materialism will be gone and people spend more time doing sports ,going out with people ,hobbies,going to park,walking ,swimming so on than consumerism or materialism.

[Robespierre2.0]

I can't stand this concept that the bourgeoisie get together yearly in a dark room somewhere with a digital map of the world, smoking cigars, cackling madly, and discussing how to most thoroughly oppress and degrade the workers.

Peoples' ideas spring from the material conditions they live in. When capitalists advertise products, they usually target demographics or 'personality profiles'. They try to pry inside the minds of consumers to find out what they like. However, in doing so, they tend to pander to the lowest common denominator and humanity's most base instincts. Whether or not people will pay money for a product is far more important for the capitalist than the quality of the product itself. The result is a bland, decadent culture which, through its' mechanisms ensures that it will become only more bland.

For instance, the way common media depicts sex and violence. Now, human entertainment naturally includes some violence; we as a species find conflict entertaining. However, violence in our media has gradually become more and more gratuitous, with plot becoming little more than window dressing. Don't get me wrong, I love Kung-Fu films and watching zombies bite heads off as much as the next person, but because of the system, directors are compelled to water down their product, add tits and a chainsaw beheading; quality is sacrificed to make things 'marketable'.

Your favorite punk group sold out for the same reason. Truly great artists are poor because of this. Book stores will carry thousands of copies of the latest masturbatory right-wing pundit's screed but not 'Foundations of Leninism'.

The capitalist doesn't do these things because he hates the workers, or is a minion of Satan- In his eyes, he is doing the right thing by doing his job selling things.

[Prisoner#69]

I'm all for people who dress nice. I want to look good because it, quite simply, gets me more sex. I assure you: if I were to dress like a slob I would get nothing :laugh:

[spice756]

I can't stand this concept that the bourgeoisie get together yearly in a dark room somewhere with a digital map of the world, smoking cigars, cackling madly, and discussing how to most thoroughly oppress and degrade the workers.


There is no smoke filled room:lol: it is simple the rich and the capitalists wanted to show they are rich and invented their own look than the working class.And use the media and advertisement to explain to the people dress like this and you look rich.

Now people associate that clothing with the rich and upper class.And to this day movie stars and pop stars dress like that.Also capitalists want to make money so they want people to have more clothes than their house can hold and spend $100 on some pants or shirt.

[spice756]

I'm all for people who dress nice. I want to look good because it, quite simply, gets me more sex. I assure you: if I were to dress like a slob I would get nothing :laugh:


Under communism materialism and consumerism will be gone so will the rich and capitalists .It will be different society.

May be people will walk around nude or look like a hippie.I meen if there is no rich or wealth you can look or dress like any thing.There is no class.May be people will dress like the natives or space man .

Sky is the limit.There is more freedom under communism or you can be anyone or dress like what ever you like.You don't have feel like shit because you do not look like a pop star or rich thug.

[Prisoner#69]

Under communism materialism and consumerism will be gone so will the rich and capitalists .It will be different society.\


:thumbup1:



May be people will walk around nude or look like a hippie.


:blink: Really?



I meen if there is no rich or wealth you can look or dress like any thing.There is no class.May be people will dress like the natives or space man .


:lol:



Sky is the limit.There is more freedom under communism or you can be anyone or dress like what ever you like.You don't have feel like shit because you do not look like a pop star or rich thug.

Sounds to me like that is more of a self-esteem issue than a problem of materialism/capitalism.

Plenty of people in this great world of ours dress exactly how they want to dress :)