A response to the bailout?

[bcbm]

The Return of the Cacerolazo?

by communitycntrl for Infoshop News
October 2, 2008

In 2001, Argentina faced an economic meltdown brought on by the free market policies of the IMF and it's puppet president, Carlos Menem. Banks rushed billions of pesos out of the country overnight, and Argentinians woke to discover their bank deposits inaccessible, their workplaces shuttered, and their economy collapsing. People had lost all trust in their political leaders, and with nothing to lose, they took to the streets to change their country.

What followed was one of the most desperate, but ultimately inspiring, periods in recent memory in the struggle against the free market ideology that brings only misery and inequality. The slogan for their struggle was "Que Se Vayan Todos," or, "They All Must Go." No politician was trusted, neighborhood assemblies were formed to govern the country in a directly democratic manner, and factories were seized and run by the workers themselves without owners or bosses.

The Argentinian crisis unfolded in the streets of a formerly middle-class nation that had been reduced to poverty through deregulation, privatization, and collusion in the highest levels of government between politicians and businessmen to swindle the wealth of a nation into their own hands. Today, in America, we face a situation with many similarities, and one that's headed in exactly the same direction. The same free market ideology that guided Argentina has created a situation where bankers have brought our economy to the edge of collapse.

When they realized their money had been stolen, Argentinians took to the streets for Cacerolazos, banging pots and pans to call others out and into the struggle. Now, our money is about to be stolen by Congress with the $700 Billion Wall Street bail out plan, and it is our turn to get people out into the streets.

People see the theft happening in front of their eyes, and they are incredibly angry. They have no trust left that the politicians in Washington will protect them. They have flooded the congress with phone calls, letters, faxes, and emails telling them not to vote for the Wall Street giveaway. The Senate has already ignored them, and voted in favor of it. The House has rejected the bill once, and will vote again on the measure on Friday morning.

Passing this bill in the House, while the largest single giveaway of tax money to corporate America in history, will likely allow Wall St. to hold off the collapse of their Babylonian towers of wealth for a couple of months. Just enough time for the elections to happen. This bill is just buying time for Bush & Co. to get out of Dodge before the shit hits the fan. Maybe.

People's 401Ks, pension, and retirement funds won't implode right away, but trust me, the collapse is coming soon. The bailout bill is just a stop-gap measure to buy some time, it doesn't fix anything. The anger felt by tax-payers about the bailout giveaway will be nothing compared to what people will feel when their savings and retirement accounts tied up in the stock market completely collapse. This is the point at which the images from Argentina of people smashing banks with hammers will become visible in our very own cities.

Still, if the House of Representatives passes this bill, the anger and frustration of the American people will already be fumingly palpable. If this bill passes, people will be pissed. So many people have stood up to say no to this bill. They will feel the ineffectiveness felt by all those without the money to buy access in Washington. Their eyes and ears will be open to hearing the beautifully cacophonous music of the Cacerolazo. They will be ready to shout in the streets "They all must go!"

In the words of "Tigerdude80" on nola.com:
"We need a revolution"
and "ih8politics2":
"I agree with you Tigerdude80."
and "lostinhell":
"We should have a modern day Boston Tea Party if this passes the house."

There are hundreds of posts just like this on the normally racist, pro status-quo message boards of nola.com. This sentiment is felt nationally. If our barricades in St. Paul may not have been obviously comprehensible or supported by all, our barricades this week will be.

We can ignite the flame of rebellion in the hearts of people across this country. We can build the Cacerolazos today that can turn into the revolution of tomorrow when the banking system collapse actually happens. We need to start now.

Organize cacerolazos for your community on Friday for if this bill passes, and into the weekend. Get in the streets. The people are behind us, and if we can show them how to take action, they will soon join alongside us. Everyone has pots and pans, and can join us on the streets to resist and protest seeing our taxes disappear onto Wall Street. And when our money starts disappearing, they will already know the sound of resistance.

Clang Clang Clang, Mother Fuckers!!!

[Bilan]

Good luck!
Put 'em up against the wall...motherfuckers!

[Zurdito]

fair enough but the President in 2001 was De La Rua, not Menem. A leftist organisation should get that right. Also Argentina at the time had been through 3 years of recssion, unemployment was over 20%, and the middle class had already been legally prohibited from taking its savings out of the banks ( a limit of $250 per week), or making transferences abroad.

The US may or may not be going that way, but it is not the same situation yet, so I would not expect the same kind of response.

Good luck with the protest though.

[peaccenicked]

Sorry I did not catch this thread first.
I ll repeat here what I have posted. The moderator could perhaps delete my thread.

There seems to be a stunned silence in the air at the enormous rip off of the US working class. Yet voices are being raised. Here from the Larouche cult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd5uaScAUSQ&eurl=http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/no-bailout-they-will-kill-you/

More to the left there is an angry article from Redress (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/04/bail-out-congressman/)


Anyone know of any good speeches or articles expressing this sort of revolutionary anger.

[peaccenicked]

I just found a thread on advanced anime (http://www.advancedanime.com/forum.php?t=32426&p=1). Absolutely no support for the bailout

[spice756]

I'm sure Argentina problem was different than the US.The US banks are having a hard time because people cannot pay their house mortgage.

[Psy]

I'm sure Argentina problem was different than the US.The US banks are having a hard time because people cannot pay their house mortgage.
Actually it is much worse then that. The US banks have a problem of a the market being flooded in fictitious capital all insured just with even more fictitious capital and banks then turning to loans to get real capital to try realize some of the value the fictitious value.

[BraneMatter]

In spite of some of my posts where I have tried to remain optomistic about the prospects for revolutionary change in the U.S., deep in my heart I am highly skeptical.

I don't know what it will take to shake the U.S. working class out of its allegiance to the capitalist "free market" system.

The capitalist propaganda has been unrelenting during this current crisis. A columnist speaking on CNN a little while ago, blamed the whole sub-prime crisis on the Democrats using the banks as 'instruments of Marxist social engineering' in an effort to provide housing for low income families and racial minorities through the Community Reinvestment Act! Never mind that 75% plus of the loans now at issue were not even issued by banks covered by the Act. Too much government regulation, in other words, was the cause of the problem!!!

Turn the truth on its head, and blame the evil commies. Sound familiar?

I know a lot of people here locally who believe this crap 100% because they saw it on the news. They are terrified that Obama might win because they are convinced he is a communist!

When U.S. workers don't get paid, can't get any money out of the bank, and people's families start to go hungry, then an avalanche shift in consciousness and the political-economic landscape might occur.

Our job is to be ready to seize the opportunity, and that means trying to win over as many workers as we can now, and "un-brainwash" them, educate them, if possible. You've got to have that revolutionary core that can lead when the time is right. There are certainly fascist groups on the right preparing to seize upon any large scale instability and disorder, and plenty of Hitler wanna-be's ready to step up to "their destiny."

[ashaman1324]

its absolutely astonishing the politicians would even consider a bailout.
even if theyre "funded" by the banks asking for the bailout, the fact they need a bailout is a show of how much at mercy they are to the politicians. and looking at the public outcry of this bill, seeing as WE will be paying the banks their $700BILLION, would completely murder their political career.
and theyre too caught up in greed for more bribes they forget to look into the future.
absolute fucking idiots.
ive told my friends to read up on socialism when they go on anti obama and commie rants. im getting alot less rants lol.

[peaccenicked]

Consciousness is slow but events are overtaking it. The bailout has consequences that the public is yet to understand. LaRouche talks of hyperinflation. I called Thursday,the day the dollar died (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/the-day-the-dollar-died-peter-tosh/), Some evidence here (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/us-dollar-falls-vs-euro-as-bailout-bill-approved/) and here (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/us-dollar-doomed-as-credit-crisis-turning-into-a-currency-crisis/). Many economists have been saying this (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/07/19/the-dollar-headed-for-a-meltdown/) all along.

Revolution is unlikely to be instigated by the left, but by the frustrations of the organized poor.
It is only by example in actual battles will confidence be placed in any sort of leader or sphere of influence. We have to show organizational skills, and encourage new found revolutionary attitudes. These are very interesting times and things may even faster that we are prepared to believe.

[spice756]

Actually it is much worse then that. The US banks have a problem of a the market being flooded in fictitious capital all insured just with even more fictitious capital and banks then turning to loans to get real capital to try realize some of the value the fictitious value.


I don't think there is fictitious capital .People got loans for house and that is what they want but could not pay the loan off.

[Psy]

I don't think there is fictitious capital .People got loans for house and that is what they want but could not pay the loan off.
Oh yes there is alot of fictitious capital, the loans only payed a role in that it was the only asset the banks had were they could try and squeeze real value out of but the loans were linked to the fictitious value of house prices so capitalists created a system were fictitious capital was backed by the fictitious value of a commodity.

[spice756]

Oh yes there is alot of fictitious capital, the loans only payed a role in that it was the only asset the banks had were they could try and squeeze real value out of but the loans were linked to the fictitious value of house prices so capitalists created a system were fictitious capital was backed by the fictitious value of a commodity.

Are you saying the bank give out loans and had no money in the bank to back the loans.So the loans are fake?

It is like saying I'm very rich come to me and I will give loan but I really have no money?

[Psy]

Are you saying the bank give out loans and had no money in the bank to back the loans.So the loans are fake?

It is like saying I'm very rich come to me and I will give loan but I really have no money?
You may want to read up on the Marxist meaning of fictional capital.

[spice756]

You may want to read up on the Marxist meaning of fictional capital.

It is illegal to print fake money or give out fake money.Some people say bank loans are fake because they do not have money in the bank.

[Psy]

It is illegal to print fake money or give out fake money.Some people say bank loans are fake because they do not have money in the bank.
Yhea you might want to read Marx's Capital, here is a wiki entry for fictitous capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_capital)

[Bilan]

It is illegal to print fake money or give out fake money.Some people say bank loans are fake because they do not have money in the bank.

No, this:


Fictitious Capital
Fictitious Capital is value, in the form of credit, shares, debt, speculation and various forms of paper money, above and beyond what can be realised in the form of commodities.


If a capitalist forces a hundred workers to work ten hours a week unpaid for a year, and succeeds in selling the product of their labour at its value, then he has secured for himself a definite quantity of the product of their labour, in the form of capital (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/a.htm#capital). In the normal course of affairs, he would exchange his money-capital for commodities and restart the cycle of reproduction with the aim of accumulating more capital.


On the other hand though, let us suppose that he now wants to retire, and instead of putting his money-capital back into commodities, he invests it in the bank. He now holds in his hands a claim to capital, perhaps in the form of a bank-account, or a bond, shares or whatever, rather than capital as such.


Now if his money lies idle in the bank vault, just the same as if it lay in his own vault, his claim is to money is secure. However neither his claim nor the money itself are capital as such and can earn no interest, because the money is not in circulation.


In order to expand itself, in order to be capital, money must circulate, it must again employ labour-power and again realise itself in expanded value. So, in order to pay interest to our retired industrialist, the bank must loan his capital to another industrialist. So long as one and the same sum of money is loaned only once, then all that we have is claims upon really-existing capital. The industrialist who has borrowed the money must service the loan, i.e., pay interest, out of the profits he makes.


However, as the class of speculators, bankers, brokers, financiers, and so on, grows, as is inevitably the case wherever the mass of capital in a country reaches a sufficient scale, what happens is, for example, the bank finds that it is able to loan out far more than it has deposited in its vaults; speculators can sell products that they do not possess, “the right kind of person” is good for credit (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/r.htm#credit) even when they have nothing, .etc., etc. Thus one and the same unit of productive capital may have to support not just the one retired industrialist who deposited his savings with the bank, but multiple claims on one and the same capital.


If the bank accepts one million from our retiree, but loans out ten millions, each of those ten millions has equal claim to that same value. This is how ficitious capital comes about.


To put it another way, the hundred workers who were able to create the original value by a year’s worth of their surplus labour (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/n/e.htm#necessary-labour) time, can now find ten units of capital all, by one means or another, claiming a share of the same surplus.


The ability of the bank to make unsecured loans is dependent on “confidence”, and at times of expansion and boom, the mass of fictitious capital grows rapidly. Then, when the period of contraction arrives, and the workers can no longer feed the voracious appetites of all these capitals, the bank finds itself under pressure and calls in its loans, defaults occur, bankruptcies, closures, share prices fall, and things fall back to reality – fictitious value is wiped out.


In times of recession, even good, useful commodities cannot be sold because money and credit has become scarce, and the commodities prove to be valueless.


Fictitious capital is that proportion of capital which cannot be simultaneously converted into existing use-values (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/u/s.htm#use-value). It is an invention which is absolutely necessary for the growth of real capital, it constitutes the symbol of confidence in the future. It is a necessary but costly fiction, and sooner or later it crashes to earth.


Marx did not fully elaborate his views on credit (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/r.htm#credit) and fictitious capital before his death. What he had written on the subject is presented by Engels in Volume III of Capital, particularly Part V. For example:
“... a large portion of this money-capital is always necessarily purely fictitious, that is, a title to value – just as paper money. In so far as money functions in the circuit of capital, it constitutes indeed, for a moment, money-capital; ... it exists only in the form of claims to capital. With the assumption made, the accumulation of these claims arises from actual accumulation, that is, from the transformation of the value of commodity-capital, etc., into money; but nevertheless the accumulation of these claims or titles as such differs from the actual accumulation from which it arises ....


“Prima facie loan capital always exists in the form of money, later as a claim to money, since the money in which it originally exists is now in the hands of the borrower in actual money-form. For the lender it has been transformed into a claim to money, into a title of ownership. The same mass of actual money can, therefore, represent very different masses of money-capital. ... With the growth of material wealth the class of money-capitalists grows; on the one hand, the number and the wealth of retiring capitalists, rentiers, increases; and on the other hand, the development of the credit system is promoted, thereby increasing the number of bankers, money-lenders, financiers, etc. With the development of the available money-capital, the quantity of interest-bearing paper, government securities, stocks, etc., also grows as we have previously shown. However, at the same time the demand for available money-capital also grows, the jobbers, who speculate with this paper, playing a prominent role on the money-market. If all the purchases and sales of this paper were only an expression of actual investments of capital, it would be correct to say that they could have no influence on the demand for loan capital, since when A sells his paper, he draws exactly as much money as B puts into the paper. But even if the paper itself exists though not the capital (at least not as money-capital) originally represented by it, it always creates pro tanto a new demand for such money-capital..” [Capital Volume III, Chapter 32 (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch32.htm)]


Throughout its history, capitalism has experienced its business cycles (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/u.htm#business-cycle). Roughly every ten years, the mass of fictitious capital grows while trade is good, and then, as the capacity of the workers to sustain the mass of hangers on reaches its limits, the downturn gathers momentum and fictitious capital is wiped out, and the cycle begins again.


The scale of these crises (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/r.htm#crisis-capitalism) grew continuously until the Wall Street Crash (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/w/a.htm#wall-st-crash) of 1929, and the Great Depression (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/d/e.htm#depression) of the 1930s. The Depression and the War which followed wiped out all the accumulated mass of capital so that a new cycle of reconstruction could begin again in 1945. The New Deal (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/n/e.htm#new-deal) in the US, Keynesian (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/people/k/e.htm#keynes-john-maynard) economic policies and particularly the international monetary arrangements set up at the Bretton Woods Conference (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/b/r.htm#bretton-woods) of July 1944, created conditions for an exceptionally long period of growth after the War.
The particular mechanism for the creation of an unprecedented mass of fictitious value in this period was the role assigned to the US dollar as the medium of international exchange in lieu of gold. Under the Mashall Plan (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/events/m/a.htm#marshall-plan), Europe was rebuilt and the US capitalist class further enriched by the labour of all those workers who did the rebuilding. But capital could not organise that reconstruction other than by creating a new mass of fictitious capital, in the form of inconvertible dollars.


By the mid-1960s this mass of fictitious capital began to collapse, and world entered a prolonged period of crisis. The mass of fictitious capital circulating in the money markets, futures exchanges and so on today is, however, far greater than ever before. 98% of the value of monetary transactions in the world are speculative, only 2% involve actual use-values.


Capital continues to exist by means of the delicate balancing act performed by all the governments and banks of the major capitalist countries, staving off the collapse of this gigantic and parasitic fantasy.

Source (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/f/i.htm)

[BraneMatter]

"Self-regulation as a way of solving all problems is finished. Laissez-faire is finished. The all-powerful market that always knows best is finished..." French President Nicolas Sarkozy on the global financial crisis -- MORE (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world/crisis-puts-an-end-to-laissezfaire-sarkozy/2008/09/26/1222217466847.html)


But did the crisis cause Sarkozy to ultimately abandon capitalism? Nah.

Sarkozy also said (http://www.csreurope.org/news.php?type=&action=show_news&news_id=1727), "The present crisis must incite us to refound capitalism on the basis of ethics and work … " (italics mine)

Wrong, Nicolas my man, capitalism cannot be reformed or 'refounded' on an ethical basis, since its basic proposition is unethical. If you still think it can, then I got a bridge over the Tigris I want to sell you!

[BraneMatter]

Ha! What was that I said in the above posts about right-wing groups seizing power in a financial crisis, and the anti-communist propaganda (http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/barack-obamas-campaign-headquarters-displays-a-communist-flag/)in the media in relation to the elections and the Wall Street bailout?

Check this:



Despite the assurances from European leaders, one German minister could not resist an alarmist take on the gathering storm.

Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warned in a magazine interview that the global financial crisis could have political repercussions, noting that Adolf Hitler rose to power following the 1929 Wall Street crash. (bold mine)

"We learned from the worldwide economic crisis of the 1920s (and 1930s) that an economic crisis can result in an incredible threat for all of society," he was quoted as saying in an advance copy of Der Spiegel's Monday edition. - German bank rescue failure clouds European united front (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gyOtIOqSQZzrnWLgo4L0sbQtS7ig)




We are all socialists now. Break out the hammer and sickle. The evil government had to step in and save free enterprise. And Republicans, especially John McCain (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iE2JCSH5p9r2GBkQWS9TWAMzmuvQD9378N3G0), are now railing that we need more regulation over capitalism run amok. - Wall Street Journal (http://blog.mlive.com/capitolchronicles/2008/09/were_all_sociaists_now.html), 09-20-08


You've GOT to be kidding me!!!



This was Marxist social engineering. This was affirmative action via mortgage. It's clear-cut. It's just people don't dare say it, except for me - Rush Limbaugh, (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_100308/content/01125107.guest.html) 10-03-08


Ah, Rush, where would we be without you to guide us???

[bcbm]

Just a (slightly late) note... I didn't write this. Just thought it was interesting.

[ckaihatsu]

The bourgeois term for this is 'fractional reserve lending' -- I wish my nickels were worth dollars in circulation...! (Really, the ratio has reached 20:1 from some central banks!)


Chris




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--- excerpt from below ---


Now if his money lies idle in the bank vault, just the same as if it lay in his own vault, his claim is to money is secure. However neither his claim nor the money itself are capital as such and can earn no interest, because the money is not in circulation.

In order to expand itself, in order to be capital, money must circulate, it must again employ labour-power and again realise itself in expanded value. So, in order to pay interest to our retired industrialist, the bank must loan his capital to another industrialist. So long as one and the same sum of money is loaned only once, then all that we have is claims upon really-existing capital. The industrialist who has borrowed the money must service the loan, i.e., pay interest, out of the profits he makes.

However, as the class of speculators, bankers, brokers, financiers, and so on, grows, as is inevitably the case wherever the mass of capital in a country reaches a sufficient scale, what happens is, for example, the bank finds that it is able to loan out far more than it has deposited in its vaults; speculators can sell products that they do not possess, “the right kind of person” is good for credit even when they have nothing, .etc., etc. Thus one and the same unit of productive capital may have to support not just the one retired industrialist who deposited his savings with the bank, but multiple claims on one and the same capital.

[...]

Fictitious capital is that proportion of capital which cannot be simultaneously converted into existing use-values. It is an invention which is absolutely necessary for the growth of real capital, it constitutes the symbol of confidence in the future. It is a necessary but costly fiction, and sooner or later it crashes to earth.

--- end excerpt ---

[peaccenicked]

There is no doubt an overwhelming amount of fictitious capital in the economy. Some commentaries talk of a blackhole sucking up values. Whatever,the bubble is bursting and the left ought to be behind the working class, who are going to feel this coming depression. Has the left gone into hiding? Afterall they did lead the antiwar movement. What is going on?

[Psy]

There is no doubt an overwhelming amount of fictitious capital in the economy. Some commentaries talk of a blackhole sucking up values. Whatever,the bubble is bursting and the left ought to be behind the working class, who are going to feel this coming depression. Has the left gone into hiding? Afterall they did lead the antiwar movement. What is going on?
We are looking at a worse crash then in 1929 but for some reason the fallout of the crash is happening at a slower rate. Basically many are waiting for the other shoe to drop meaning watching for the effects to reach workers in the form of their wages and commodity prices.

[peaccenicked]

The left should be offering solutions to the banking crisis. Even if they are regarded as reformist. Chavez is calling for a multipolar world. Not strictly socialist but is aimed at reducing US power in the world. I know that is good for socialists, considering the case of Allende alone. When the pundits call for transparency. Should we not support that, who does not want to look at the crimes they have committed. We should be telling people that the bailout is throwing "good" money after bad.
Nationalizing the banks is just another form of bailout, if they are not under a democratic regulation that puts main street first.
The idea of waiting is a delay of communist duty, our job is to accellerate the development of the political consciousness of the working class.
We should not be waiting for the working class to get our maximum programme but try to say useful and meaningful things now.
How many tent cities? How much unemployment? How big does inflation have to get?

[peaccenicked]

Found this video response. The only real thing the matter with it is a reference to the meaningless oxymoron "Casino socialism" from Kuciniche.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH7KH2OTIqU&eurl=http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/

[BraneMatter]

Ok, so the FED, under emergency powers, has now apparently set up a blank check vehicle at the New York Federal Reserve Bank, to buy up commercial paper, and has increased its auctions to banks to $900 billion dollars. See Bloomberg, HERE (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAyx4qPsKSZk&refer=home)

Does this now mean we are on the hook for several more trillion in addition to the bailout bill money? I gotta admit, I no longer understand what is going on, as this has gone into areas of banking and Wall Street I don't fully umderstand.

Can someone give an explanation of what our glorious Bush administration has now done???

Quite frankly, to me this looks not only like class warfare, but just plain WAR on the people -- as in rape and plunder by a conquerer.

(Peacenicked: Love the video!)

[peaccenicked]

Here is Wiki s definition of commercial paper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_paper) As far as I can see it is a short term security, based on mortgage based assets. It is A graded loan so defaults would not be expected. It is therefore issued to shore up a companies debt.

The main thing that is going on is described by Mike Whitney here
"Listen up, Congress: This massive trillion dollar deleveraging process cannot be stopped. The system is purging credit excesses which are unsustainable. The levies you’re building with this $700 billion bill may plug a few holes, but it won’t stop the flood. Economist Ludwig von Mises put it like this:

“There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought on by credit expansion. The question is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.”"

Whole article (http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/06/french-premier-francois-fillon-were-on-the-edge-of-the-abyss”/)


This video gives a good if not over simplified picture of what is going on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dpJL6ANnV0


The devaluation of the dollar. A tax on everybody that affects the poor the most.

[Psy]

The left should be offering solutions to the banking crisis. Even if they are regarded as reformist. Chavez is calling for a multipolar world. Not strictly socialist but is aimed at reducing US power in the world. I know that is good for socialists, considering the case of Allende alone. When the pundits call for transparency. Should we not support that, who does not want to look at the crimes they have committed. We should be telling people that the bailout is throwing "good" money after bad.
Nationalizing the banks is just another form of bailout, if they are not under a democratic regulation that puts main street first.
The idea of waiting is a delay of communist duty, our job is to accellerate the development of the political consciousness of the working class.
We should not be waiting for the working class to get our maximum programme but try to say useful and meaningful things now.
How many tent cities? How much unemployment? How big does inflation have to get?
The thing is that this is the crisis is more deeper then the bourgeoisie media currently is letting on. The cycle of Money->Commodities->More Money is breaking down, and capitalism is going to crash, this is not the crash this is just the engines of capitalism blowing up causing it to spiral downward. That is not to say capitalism's days are numbered just that the current crash it pretty much inevitable so the question Marxist are asking is what happens after the crash as capitalists will try to get capitalism going again.

[peaccenicked]

We can only hope democratically, that the system of boom and bust is utterly exposed as being irrational to the majority of people and that our forces can muster up a rational alternative. We have to build on what capitalism has achieved and show that it can be surpassed and surpass anything that a return to the boom and bust business cycle can achieve. Not an easy task but it is the task on hand.

[ckaihatsu]

Peaccenicked,

We should *not* be calling for "reformist solutions" to the banking crisis, because there is no such thing. Capitalism cannot be reformed -- it must be overthrown by labor.

Please see the article from The Organizer newspaper (Oct. 1), below.


Chris





The left should be offering solutions to the banking crisis. Even if they are regarded as reformist. Chavez is calling for a multipolar world. Not strictly socialist but is aimed at reducing US power in the world. I know that is good for socialists, considering the case of Allende alone. When the pundits call for transparency. Should we not support that, who does not want to look at the crimes they have committed. We should be telling people that the bailout is throwing "good" money after bad.

Nationalizing the banks is just another form of bailout, if they are not under a democratic regulation that puts main street first.

The idea of waiting is a delay of communist duty, our job is to accellerate the development of the political consciousness of the working class.

We should not be waiting for the working class to get our maximum programme but try to say useful and meaningful things now.

How many tent cities? How much unemployment? How big does inflation have to get?



Labor MUST Take to the Streets to Stop Wall St. Bailout!

THE ORGANIZER NEWSPAPER
P.O. Box 40009, San Francisco, CA 94140.
Tel. (415) 641-8616; fax: (415) 626-1217.
To UNSUBSCRIBE, contact <[email protected]>
PLEASE EXCUSE DUPLICATE POSTINGS
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Labor Can and MUST Stop Giveaways to Wall St. Bankers!

Labor Must Take to the Streets Across the Country
To Demand Bailout of Main Street -- Not Wall Street!

By the Editorial Board of The Organizer Newspaper

The massive rebellion by the American people against Wall Street's $1.3 Trillion "Grand Theft Bailout" forced a majority of members of Congress this past Monday to vote against this corporate heist.

Working people across the country were heartened by this defeat; with their millions of protest letters to Congress (one Congressman from South Carolina reported that 99% of the letters urged him to vote "NO" on the bankers' bailout), they had compelled the politicians in Washington to heed the massive outcry.

But now the politicians are gearing up their offensive to overturn this vote. The Senate is expected to vote a slightly amended version of the bill that was defeated in the House of Representatives. (The media reported that a few "sweeteners" were added to lure both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate and House into supporting this new bill.)
The ruling rich are hoping that a "YES" vote in the Senate will in turn compel the House to do the same when they reconvene on Thursday.

Across the country, unionists have continued to express their anger over this corporate welfare plan in demonstrations such as the one in New York City on Sept. 25, with letters to their members of Congress, and with letters to their union publications.

One such letter, posted to the ILWU members' listserv, captures this anger. It was written by the former ILWU Local 142 Contract Administrator. It states:

"I am outraged! The U.S. Senate is now scheduled to vote on the same Wall Street bailout package -- with minor modifications -- that was rejected by the House. According to news reports, the package is receiving bipartisan support, including that of Barack Obama.

"The modifications, as reported, include raising FDIC insurance for your bank accounts from $100,000 to $250,000 Š

"I am dumbfounded that everyone regards this situation as a crisis of immense proportions when 40 million Americans lack health insurance. Not a crisis? A public education system in collapse. Not a crisis? Deteriorating infrastructure. Not a crisis? An illogical and insane war in Iraq. Not a crisis? And the list goes on. ...

"I urge each and every one of you to write your Senators and implore them to oppose the Wall Street bail-out provisions."
More and more workers also realize that this Wall St. financial crisis won't go away even if $700 billion of our taxpayers' money is used to rescue the speculators who got us into this message. The press reports that more than 110 major financial institutions are facing bankruptcies. Meanwhile, 10 million families face foreclosure (mortgages amount to $14 trillion, according to reports earlier today on MSNBC). Where is the protection for them in the giveaway bill?

Nor are workers buying the idea that once bailed out, these banks will recapitalize and provide more low-interest loans and credits to consumers and businesses in this slumping economy. For too long, they have seen these speculators off-load their fraudulent securitieså and useless paper on the government, while shoveling the giveaways they get (with our tax money) into foreign currencies, gold, and Swiss bank accounts. To expect that the people who swindled us will help get the economy out of the slump is not only a pipedream, it's a cruel hoax.

And in the meantime, where will the funding come from to help those threatened with home foreclosures? Where will the money come from to stimulate the economy and provide jobs to the millions out of work or on the brink of losing their jobs?

You can't bail out Wall Street and Main Street at the same time. Those who say it can be done are lying through their teeth.

Unions across the country have demanded an economic stimulus package; money for jobs, not war; a moratorium on home foreclosures and evictions; public works' programs to put the country back to work and to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.

They're not going to get any of this from the deal worked out by Pelosi, Bush and Paulson.

The trade unions need to issue a call TODAY to mobilize their members in the streets in front of Federal Buildings or other appropriate sites across the country on Thursday and Friday (leading members of Congress have announced that no vote will be taken Thursday in the House on the new bailout plan). They need to hold press conferences immediately to let their representatives in Congress know that they will not be bullied or coerced into accepting a slightly warmed over version of the same slop.

The trade unions have the numbers and the potential power to stop this corporate theft once and for all -- and to demand a packet that bails out working people and the economy. Now is the time to reach out to labor's friends and allies and to the public as a whole. This is a moment for leadership, and masses of people will be gratified if labor provides it.

The time to act is NOW!

[BraneMatter]

I guess what I was asking is this: Have not the actions of the Fed last night at least tripled the original trillion in the bailout bill? In fact, given them a BLANK check under emergency powers?

It looks to me like that is what the Bloomberg story is saying. Under emergency powers, the FED now has two ADDITIONAL instruments or powers: a BLANK CHECK to deal with commercial paper, and a $900 billion check for auctions involving banks.

[BraneMatter]

Can you believe it??? Bush just said the U.S. is the most DYNAMIC economy in the world!!! WOW!!!

Dynamic as in "on the way DOWN" like a falling rock??? :laugh:

Oh, I know, it's not funny, but it damned sure would be if were weren't all drowning in Bush's BS.

Next thing you know they will be telling us the "fundamentals" are strong.

Oh, wait, that was last week, except for those warnings of an apocalyptic crash if the bailout was not passed...

Talk about not getting your story striaght. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!

[peaccenicked]

We should *not* be calling for "reformist solutions" to the banking crisis, because there is no such thing. Capitalism cannot be reformed -- it must be overthrown by labor. ckaihatsu

I agree that there is no reformist solution but traditionally our movement has supported reformist measures such as wage increases and price decreases, reemployment of sacked workers, abolition of taxes etc. It is not a negation of the socialist project at all.
Asking for transparency, for instance, is hardly a reform at all, what it does do if it is done properly is help show the working class, the recklessness of the capitalist class. That is in our interest.
Sure socialism is in our interest but to win socialism we have to be consisitently for working class interest in the here and now.


The left should be offering solutions to the banking crisis. Even if they are regarded as reformist.from my earlier post

The key word here is "regarded'. Even the operative word.
Merely offering the maximum programme and thus revolution is rushing in blind. We have to asses the situation and see what measures being proposed are in our interest. The bailout is not, is there anything that is. Transparency is one thing, anything that is a bailout of main street is another.



Unions across the country have demanded an economic stimulus package; money for jobs, not war; a moratorium on home foreclosures and evictions; public works' programs to put the country back to work and to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.ckaihatsu

This is reformist. Not a bad reform but it hardly has the working class as the agency of change, or does it tackle property relations at the systemic level.


This a good article on the whole. It offers a fightback.


Branematter as to the FED, is doing a lot behind closed doors that is not open to public scrutiny. The ''oversight'' promised by Congress is hogwash,
it will be presented with fait accompli reports.


Finally there is an interesting debate emerging on the US and Europe on the website I am helping to run
http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/mary-dejevsky-amid-the-chaos-we-should-hail-the-triumph-of-europe/
(http://inthesenewtimes.com/2008/10/03/mary-dejevsky-amid-the-chaos-we-should-hail-the-triumph-of-europe/)

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah, peaccenicked, agreed. Thanks!


Chris

[BraneMatter]

After an $85 billion dollar bailout, AIG executives went on a $440,000 spa junket (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gKGBkg4DguI_k2NcQm5JemW44fcA) at the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, Calif., running up the tab with massages, facials, petticures, and sipping margaritas by the pool!

Bush, Obama, and McCain all expressed outrage over the spa junket, and the ultimate insult to taxpayers, and said AIG should repay the money. Far as I know, no effort has been made to make AIG do that.

Then, the Treasury Secretary today announced an ADDITIONAL $37 1/2 billion dollars (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/government_to_give_aig_more.html?hpid=topnews)for the bailout of AIG subsidiaries!!!

Oh yeah, and AIG has ANOTHER executive junket scheduled for next week.

Talk about open contempt for the people! They don't even bother to hide it anymore...

[peaccenicked]

more explanation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4IcNbfPMA&eurl=http://inthesenewtimes.com/

[Jay Rothermel]

Cleveland activists launch moratorium campaign

By Martha Grevatt
Cleveland

Published Nov 24, 2008 5:17 PM

Activists in Cleveland have formed the Ohio Moratorium Now! Coalition to Stop Evictions, Foreclosures and Shutoffs using the Moratorium NOW! Coalition in Michigan as a model.

The Nov. 18 founding meeting was called by the Peoples Fightback Center, the Cleveland Chapter of the New Black Panther Party, the Lucasville Uprising Freedom Network (formerly the Cleveland Lucasville Five Defense Committee) and the Baldwin Wallace College Chapter of Fight Imperialism, Stand Together (FIST).

The call to "join a nationwide movement that is keeping people in their homes and keeping their utilities from being shut off" drew additional community activists from outside the original sponsoring groups.

Those present were inspired by a reading from the classic book "Labor’s Untold Story." The passage told the story of Peter Grossup, a cabinetmaker laid off in 1930 who eighteen months later faced foreclosure.

When the sheriffs finally came and threw the Grossup family’s possessions on the street, the Unemployed Council came and moved everything back in. Grossup, who until that day dismissed the Council as "a bunch of Communists," was lifted from despondency, and subsequently became a Council activist in his own right.

The initial Moratorium Now! meeting was held in the Glenville neighborhood, a predominantly African-American community on Cleveland’s east side where the foreclosure crisis is the most severe. The group agreed to hold the second meeting in the west side suburb of Lakewood, which has a large lesbian, gay, bi and trans population and where a Lutheran minister asked the coalition to come to her church.

By going to different neighborhoods, Ohio Moratorium Now! plans to launch a countywide and eventually a statewide campaign to save people’s homes and prevent utility shutoffs.

Organizers will employ a two-pronged approach and push for a moratorium through legislative or other governmental action while at the same time building a rapid-response strike force to keep people from being thrown out on the street.

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