What will I value?

[KJSeltzer]

I'm 18 and I registered for my first time . My parents registered me as a Republican . But I wanted to look into Communism . My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?
I dont to start a bad conversation , just trying to have a nice convo

[Lynx]

Ha, is this question handled by one of the sticky threads in Learning?

[BraneMatter]

Well, you have to start with educating yourself. Have you read The Communist Manifesto, for starters?

You have to have some idea of what the nature and aims of communism are, i.e. what it is trying to accomplish and how.

Arriving at a revolutionary consciousness is not something you can always put into an exact set of steps for a given individual. Everyone's experience and circumstances are different, but there are some general forces at work as well.

The benefit is a more equitable distribution of wealth and a more just society, free from war and racism, exploitation and slavery.

[apathy maybe]

I'm 18 and I registered for my first time . My parents registered me as a Republican . But I wanted to look into Communism . My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?
I dont to start a bad conversation , just trying to have a nice convo

Your parents registered you as a Republican! Whatever happened to personal autonomy!

I would suggest not bothering to read the Communist Manifesto. At least, not now. It isn't worth it for beginners (and I don't know why people keep suggesting it...).

Instead, I'll point you to http://www.revleft.com/vb/high-school-commie-t22370/index.html which should answer many of the questions you might have (it's long, don't bother reading it all, but at least read the first post).

After you've looked through that, examine http://www.revleft.com/vb/making-sense-anarchism-t6416/index.html which looks at anarchism. (Most "Communists" want to bring about a society that most anarchists would not object to at all.)

Anyway, here goes the debunking myths time. Firstly, China isn't communist, not only do they not say they are communist, they are actually basically capitalist (they even joined the WTO!). Cuba isn't communist, the USSR wasn't communist, North Korea isn't communist either!

Why does the media keep saying that all these countries are/were communist? Ignorance mainly, but laziness also. The most these countries have ever claimed is that they were "moving towards communism". Communism as defined by Marx was the end result, the society after capitalism, where the state had withered away. Because there was still a state (government etc.), these countries were not communist by definition.

On to your question:
"My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?"

Are your parents rich? Are they millionaires? Are they billionaires? Well, under capitalism you are doing pretty well. You'll make a lot of money without having to ever work. You can sit back, relax and don't bother getting a job. That's capitalism for you. (Of course, if you are poor, it's the opposite, you'll have to work hard almost every day of your life.)

Under a class-less society, without the profit incentive, no one will have to work very much at all. All the useless jobs that don't actually produce anything (mortgage brokers spring to mind for some reason) will not exist. Instead, those people can do productive work, meaning, enough is still being produced, but by more people, less work all around! (Sounds good to me anyway.)

You'll have greater freedom to do what you want to do. You won't have to worry about money. You won't have to be scared that the economy will tank and you'll lose your house. You won't have to scream at the stupidity of politicians (there won't be any need for any).

There are some of the things you will get, whether you are rich or poor.

[KJSeltzer]

Thanks man i'll have to read up on that in a second . But yeah my father owns a business and I will be owning it soon hopefully . But I dont understand why everyone dislikes communism . When I tryed to talk to my mom about it she got really freaked out :(

[Colonello Buendia]

similar reaction from my folks but they're center left ( Labour Supporters) and the own a small business

[Sprinkles]

Thanks man i'll have to read up on that in a second . But yeah my father owns a business and I will be owning it soon hopefully . But I dont understand why everyone dislikes communism . When I tryed to talk to my mom about it she got really freaked out :(

Not to be an ass and others will probably disagree with me, but when you own a factory chances are low you'll eventually want to give it away unless you're a really generous person. Since communism seeks to abolish the private ownership of the means of production, in other words take your factory and make it collective property by giving it to the people who work there. The upside it you'll still get to work there, the downside well...

So to answer your question it might not have that much to offer in that respect and if you aren't fervently against nationalism, sexism or income equality maybe this Republican thing isn't so bad of a choice.

[KJSeltzer]

But I have alot of questions about this topic.

I saw a quote on the CPusa.org website and it said "People before profit " or something related to that .

My question is . Communism is when everyone gets payed all the same wages ? And people disagree with that . Please dont not make fun of me if I made a stupid remark

[revolution inaction]

But I have alot of questions about this topic.

I saw a quote on the CPusa.org website and it said "People before profit " or something related to that .

My question is . Communism is when everyone gets payed all the same wages ? And people disagree with that . Please dont not make fun of me if I made a stupid remark


I know nothing about the cpusa.org websight, if this is the communst party usa I would probably say they are not really communists, that sounds like a liberal slogan to me.
Communism is not when people get paid the same wages, communism is when the workers have control over the means of production, there is no government and the principle "from each according to ability, to each according to need" is put into practice. In communism there is no money.

[mikelepore]

Communism is when everyone gets payed all the same wages ?

No, it's collective ownership and democratic control by the people of the factories, farms, mines, mills, railroads, and all other industries and services. Beyond that starting point, we all have hundreds of different opinions about what other details would be necessary to make collective ownership and democratic control into a workable plan.

Personally (I've been a marxist since the 1960s), I would prefer a system in which all workers' incomes are approximately equal except for small multipliers according to how stressful each kind of work is; for example, one hour of work for an office worker might be the same contribution of personal sacrifice, and therefore compensated with the same income, as forty minutes of work for a coal miner. In my opinion, that would be a genuine kind of classless society.

Many other people are going to tell you that the ultimate goal is to have no incomes at all, no existence of money, all the products being free. The fact is, that suggestion is something that Marx merely speculated about for a moment, in just one private correspondence which he didn't even want to be published. Some Marxists like the suggestion and some don't. As for me, I don't like that idea.

Recommended reading: this very short excerpt, about two pages, copied out of Marx's pamphlet ...
http://www.deleonism.org/cgi-bin/text.cgi?j=lv000016

[KJSeltzer]

This is such a good idea man . I dont understand why people dont like this ? I also plan to buy the book by Karl Marx

[Q]

I'm 18 and I registered for my first time . My parents registered me as a Republican . But I wanted to look into Communism . My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?
I dont to start a bad conversation , just trying to have a nice convo

Welcome to the boards!
I personally recommend The Transitional Program (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/index.htm), written by Leon Trotsky, to get an idea of what we try to achieve. It was written in 1938, in a different historical epoch, but much of it still holds value.

Also, for this election campaign, we (our American comrades at Socialist Alternative (http://socialistalternative.org/)) call for a vote on Nader. Here you can read some articles on why:
A Tale of Two Conventions — Where is the presidential election going? (http://socialistalternative.org/news/article10.php?id=925)
Break with the Two Parties of War and Big Business - Vote Nader! (http://socialistalternative.org/news/article10.php?id=901)
Is a Nader Vote a Wasted Vote? — The Case Against Lesser-Evilism (http://socialistalternative.org/news/article10.php?id=902)

Again, welcome! :)

[KJSeltzer]

Ok man i'll have to check that out after im done looking at " The Communist Manifesto " went on Google Books and im reading that now . But what is the difference between the types of Marxism ?

[Comrade B]

But what is the difference between the types of Marxism ?
Bit difficult of a question, you should acquaint yourself with the history of communism and those that call themselves communists before you decide what you define yourself as.

[The Something]

Ok man i'll have to check that out after im done looking at " The Communist Manifesto " went on Google Books and im reading that now . But what is the difference between the types of Marxism ?

I'll try a short answer and people can fix it if they wish.

The different forms of marxism can best be defined(in my opinion) as different interpretations of what Marx has said or expansions on his ideas: i.e. leninism maoism ect.

Before you even think about trying to research these other "forms", it is imperative you read about marx's ideas, as that is the foundation for so many other "forms of marxism".

I would go ahead and recommend buying the International Socialist Review magazine. This is (I think) one of the best marxist/socialist magazines you can get that will help you understand a lot of the positions most communists take on things ranging from current issues to the russian revolution and beyond. It can usually be found at any bookstore. Allthough, depending on your community, it may be harder to get.

[KJSeltzer]

Alright so i'm going to Borders books today . To try to look for Karl Marx book and the socialist magazine , anything else .

[The Something]

Alright so i'm going to Borders books today . To try to look for Karl Marx book and the socialist magazine , anything else .

Have an open mind and read as much as you can! Look at the world for what it really is and not for what others say it is.

Most importantly than all of this: get involved. I think i cannot stress this enough people spend their whole lives devoted to understanding revolution and Marx and ect ect.... yet they have done nothing to progress any sort of revolution let alone an issue that affects people in a real way. You can read and argue with people over the internet all you like yet this will get no one anywhere.

I am not suggesting that expanding your knowledge on any subject is bad, but rather be mindful of what it is you are doing and what you say. To argue about the horrors of capitalism and how wastefull consumerism is bad and then go out and buy a hummer or if there is local injustice to stay silent and "let other people fight this battle". Well if everyone thinks this way, who will fight?

I know, I know I ranted a bit, but all I can say is don't be silent any longer. Learn all that you can, education of the flaws of capitalism and society are nessecary to understand how to go about fixing them, but don't be silent any longer.

Take anything on here or anywhere for that matter with a grain of salt don't accept it as true(including anything I say) free thinking is the cornerstone of a true revolution.

With that I say good luck with your searches and welcome to the board. :D

[Knight of Cydonia]

. My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?
i don't want to persuade you to join communism or anarchism, because no one should controling your destiny and no one has the right to tell you which political ideas should you choose. my suggestion is, read, learn, and then try to understand everything about communism, after that, you were free to choose your political ideology destination, wether it's republican, democrat, communist, socialist or anarchist or any other political ideology.

read,learn and understand it:)

[Drace]

As of why do people hate communism...

They don't, haha! Corporations sure hate communism since its very anti - buisness, and their interests are reflected to the people through mass media :) So most who hate 'communism' don't even know what it really is.

There was many fears of the US going under communist rule because of the uprising of the Soviet Union. It was the bourgeoisie's role to make everyone think badly of communism. Theres much anti - communist propeganda films from the 1950s you can find on Youtube. There quite hilarious..

They also labeled all non - pure capitalist states as "Communist". Well actually only those associated with bloody events...

They also binded the term 'leftist' with liberals and also "communism" to have the public have a negative look on anything anti - republican. The 'left' is a term that originated in France revolution. Those who opposed their system sat on the left side in the assemblies. The US really messed up the term of it. The left is suppose be the ideology of communism, socialism, anarchism, etc.
But hell, the other day, I heard a women in Congress say that the bailout plan was a major leap downwards to socialism. ???? lol.

Btw, Revleft - The Revolutionary Left

Well I suppose I got a bit off topic there.
The whole time period of which this happened is known as Mc...ehh what was the term, comrades?

You can probably find a good link on Google if you search "Cold war propaganda" .

Oh and if you could, ask your mom to define 'communism'.


My question is what will I benefit from Communism ?

I'm not sure what you mean by this o.O

[Panda Tse Tung]

Dude, since everybody is pulling on this guy I'll give him a list as well:

I personally think Marx is too difficult to start with. So I'll just give my set of advice (since everyone is specifically promoting their ideology i will do the same :p)

The basic principles of Communism - Friedrich Engels
Addicted to war - Joel Andreas
Anything you find by Michael Parenti (but specifically blackskirts and reds)
On practise - Mao Zedong
On contradiction - Mao Zedong
Combat Liberalism - Mao Zedong
Anything else by Mao
Another view of Stalin - Ludo Martens
USSR, the velvet counter-revolution - Ludo Martens
The basic principles of Leninism - Stalin

[ckaihatsu]

KJSeltzer,

I came around socialist politics after jumping into some anti-Gulf War marches when I was on campus as a freshman. I became impressed with materialism in general, and have since found Marxism to be the most macro, most objective tool with which to examine human society.

I have recently created some one-page illustrations that you might find useful. Please feel free to take a look, if you like:


This one is derived from an essay from 1907 by Jack London, in which he explains why the interests of labor are irreconcilably opposed to those of capital:


Labor & Capital, Wages & Dividends
http://tinyurl.com/6bs6va


Here's one that puts all social institutions on a vertical axis, from micro to macro:


History, Macro-Micro
http://tinyurl.com/2dafgr


This is my most recent one, a depiction of how we don't ultimately need money in circulation if we can re-organize global society on a political basis:


Supply prioritization in a socialist transitional economy
http://tinyurl.com/5mjhhh


Hope it helps -- all the best!


Chris




--


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___

RevLeft.com -- Home of the Revolutionary Left
www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=16162

Photoillustrations, Political Diagrams by Chris Kaihatsu
community.webshots.com/user/ckaihatsu/

3D Design Communications - Let Your Design Do Your Footwork
ckaihatsu.elance.com

MySpace:
myspace.com/ckaihatsu

CouchSurfing:
tinyurl.com/yoh74u

[KJSeltzer]

Thanks alot guys . You have alot of advice for me . I wish there was everything combined into one book. Like Communism for Dummies . Haha

[ckaihatsu]

Whoa -- the mixture of capitalism and anti-capitalism in that statement just made my head explode...! Whoa.............!

= )

[KJSeltzer]

Haha Sorry I didnt mean to hurt you

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah, I don't know which hurts more: Not thinking of it in the first place, and losing out on all those book sales, or not thinking of it in the first place so that I can wave it in front of me at the head of the revolution...!

Hahahahaha!

Thanx fer th' laff -- all the best, KJ...!

[KJSeltzer]

Can I ask where you can find out information on some marches ?

[ckaihatsu]

Well, if you're serious, KJ, check out the 'Events and Propaganda' section at the main board -- and leave the books at home...!

[Comrade B]

Should warn you man, everyone here is going to also try to pull you into the direction of their form of communism. There are a variety of different types of radical lefties here, including anarchists (left, but not communist), Marxist Anarchists, Trotskyists (and their subdivisions), Stalinists, and Maoists. Most of them really disagree with each other.

All the Marxists share the Manifesto, but for the other material, don't assume it represents all communists.

[al8]

Agh! It's too much of a hassle to register on the site. If it weren't I would've saved two of the illustrations. The first and second are good ones. The middle one is a bit obscure.

[KJSeltzer]

What are the differences between them all just different studies ?

If someone could just post/PM/Email little notes on what the different types are I would be very happy . I'm also looking at the different types of communism on Wikipedia . I just went past Stalinism and now reading about Trotskyism