LAUGH OF THE DAY - Iraqi Exile takes on 'Peace' Activist

[Liberty Lover]

A download must for EVERYONE!

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3

[Tkinter1]

lol.

[Boris Moskovitz]

LMAO! I love Ping Pong... Good job LL! :biggrin:

[Anonymous]

WOW......ya' know she really is just a little girl. LOL

[abstractmentality]

do any of you know where the 2,000,000 death toll by Saddam came from? from all that i have read, i have never heard a number close to this, besides the 1,500,000 caused by sanctions, not Saddam.

[Boris Moskovitz]

Actually, that interview was more of a joke than political XD

[peaccenicked]

little boys, What a patronising propagandist for the war
and you are so gullible that you accept what the ignorant fool says. That is the laugh of the day very funny little boys.

[Zombie]

definitely a joke.
on one side, you got some pissed out dude (not getting enuf sex are we dude?)who kept barking like it was full moon, and on the other side, you have a little ignorant fucked up chick who, imo was under the influence.
debate? seems more like a good ol' pissing contest to me.
really that was a real waste of time.

[peaccenicked]

http://www.swans.com/library/art9/2003pics/freedom.jpg

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 3:00 am on April 9, 2003
do any of you know where the 2,000,000 death toll by Saddam came from? from all that i have read, i have never heard a number close to this, besides the 1,500,000 caused by sanctions, not Saddam.


Apart from the one million that died in his invasion of Iran, Saddam is also responsible for a long history of internal repression against the Iraqi people. Mass murder, execution, torture, "disappearances," rape, and forced deportation are all used against real or imagined enemies to the state. In 1975, the Baathists waged their first war against the Kurdish citizens of Iraq, and in 1987, the regime carried out the notorious "Anfal" campaign that killed thousands of Kurds, with 100,000-180,000 more deemed "disappeared". In 1988 the regime used chemical weapons against the Kurdish town of Halabja, killing over 5,000 civilians and wounding thousands more.

In March 1991, immediately following the Gulf war, the Iraqi regime turned its Republican Guard units against citizens who had risen in rebellion against the regime - partly at the urging of the Allies. But without support form Allied forces, most of these people were massacered by Saddam's forces. In the south, the regime's defense minister bragged that the Republican Guard had killed 300,000 people.

I would like to know where that 1, 500, 000 number came from regarding Iraqi deaths due to sanctions. Saddam himself has put the number at only 500, 000.

[Boris Moskovitz]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 8:58 am on April 9, 2003
little boys, What a patronising propagandist for the war
and you are so gullible that you accept what the ignorant fool says. That is the laugh of the day very funny little boys.


Actually, I don't like that guy, I just think all the interrupting is funny.

[abstractmentality]

LL:

"The total cost in lives directly resulting from U.N. sanctions is now 1,500,00 deaths over the normal death rate." -Ramsey Clark's report on the Impact of UN Sanctions on the civilian population of Iraq to the Members of the UN Security Council. Published in The Children Are Dying, reports by UN Food and Agriculture Organization, 1998. ISBN: 0-9656916-3-2

Human Rights Watch puts the Anfal death toll between 50,000 and 100,000 (http://hrw.org/reports/world/iraq-pubs.php). Im wondering where the difference in statistics comes from. maybe im looking at the wrong thing. could you provide a realiable link to that death toll? im not trying to down play the brutalness of Saddam, nor am i trying to make it more "nice" by proposing a lower number. rather, just trying to get the facts straight.

[peaccenicked]

Sorry Boris I was not meaning to get at you but I did not find it funny. I wont argue sense of humour just politics, and I like yours. :smile:

[Liberty Lover]

AM,

The US State dept. has put the death count between 70-150,000. It dosen't really matter.

I think the only people who could possibly know the number of deaths resulting from sanctions are the Baathsts.

True, The sanctions have killed many people. But if they were not in place Saddam would be killing many people (even more than he currently does). The only humane solution to this dilema is...regime change.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 7:02 am on April 9, 2003)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Liberty Loather
Sanctions on a country don't hurt the leadership, they just starve the people who are being oppressed by the leadership.
How would you like to be 'liberated' by a tank shell?

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from NoXion on 11:19 am on April 9, 2003
Liberty Loather
Sanctions on a country don't hurt the leadership, they just starve the people who are being oppressed by the leadership.


Not true. The sanctions have prevented Saddam from acquiring weapons grade uranium that would allow him to construct nuclear devices. They have also destroyed his ability to wage another war of expansion.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 11:24 am on April 9, 2003)

[Xvall]

Woo! Yeah! Awsome!

Iraqis in support of the war: 1
Iraqis in opposition to war: 24,001,815 (Some have probably died by now; oh well.)

Other than the fact that the guy is a jerk for interrupting her every three seconds, he continuously refers to her as a little girl. So I suppose if I ever encounter a young conservative or republican, I can simply say that they are nothing but a little boy/girl who doesn't know anything; and that is alright.

[Anonymous]

She didn't answer his question though.

[Moskitto]

sanctions have in general been shown to only work where the oppressed people in the country support them, for example South Africa, no where else have sanctions really brought about change on their own.

[Liberty Lover]

Iraqis in support of the war: 1
Iraqis in opposition to war: 24,001,815 (Some have probably died by now; oh well.)

I suppose that is why the streets of Baghdad are filled with Iraqi's cheering the results of war.

[canikickit]

I suppose that is why the streets of Baghdad are filled with Iraqi's cheering the results of war.

A week ago the streets were filled with people cheering for Saddam.

Peacce, that cartoon is great.

[truthaddict11]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 10:00 pm on April 8, 2003
do any of you know where the 2,000,000 death toll by Saddam came from? from all that i have read, i have never heard a number close to this, besides the 1,500,000 caused by sanctions, not Saddam.


I hear from classmates how saddam apparently killed millions of people every year. yet i have read NO newspaper that states these facts.

I am worried what will happen to the Iraqi people now that Saddam is out. Will the Fundalmentalists gain power? We can almost guarantee civil war there and millions will starve again.

[HankMorgan]

What was her answer?

[HankMorgan]

I listened to the whole clip and I missed her answer. What was her answer?

[Liberty Lover]

There wasn't one.

[abstractmentality]

i heard an Iraqi talk today to a large lecture hall. He has a phd from UCBerkeley, and just this semester resigned as a professor from there. he was born in iraq 2 years before Saddam took power, and lived there until 1991-1992. he was a member of the iraqis that went against saddam after the gulf war, taking 14 of the major 18 cities in Iraq, with the thinking that the US would help them overthrow Saddam. he is a shi'ite muslim, and also lived in kurdistan for a few years in his life. he is anti-war.

one of the better speaches i have heard. what was interesting is his talking about the silencing that the media has done to him. he told about how he had done so many interviews, some a few hours long, only to see the news misrepresent his interview out of context and/or not use his interview at all. interesting.

[Liberty Lover]

The People who are celebrating on the streets of every city in Iraq right know obviously disagree with him.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 3:00 am on April 9, 2003
do any of you know where the 2,000,000 death toll by Saddam came from? from all that i have read, i have never heard a number close to this, besides the 1,500,000 caused by sanctions, not Saddam.


its actualy closer to 3,000,000 when you take into acount when he launched chemical weapons an Iranian troops.

[Anti communist]

LL, great clip. It shows the mentality of the MAJORITY of the anti war (anti American really) crowd. The question was real simple and all she could say was "give peace a chance". The guy could have showed her the video of the dead Kurds after the gasing, including babies, or the video on 20/20 a few weeks ago where they tied guys to poles and shot them in the south after the '91 uprising. I hate these fucking peace lovers. They preech peace even when we are potentially saving millions of Iraqis from dying in the future from another gasing. We might have killed some civilians and I have no doubt we did. But it was all by accident, not intentionaly. And the price paid by those few civilians killed, even if they number in the thousands which they don't, is well worth it for freeing 25 million Iraqis.

I had a great feeling yesterday when I saw the statue coming down and the Iraqis in Baghdad and in Dearborn, MI thanking the troops and the President as they were flying the American flag. I had such a great pride in being an American and knowing that we had done a good and honorable thing and that the people that we are helping (the Iraqis) knew that our intentions are good and honorable.

[abstractmentality]

The People who are celebrating on the streets of every city in Iraq right know obviously disagree with him.

"No Iraqi will support what the Americans are doing here," a Nasiriya man named Nawaf told the New York Times. "If they want to go to Baghdad, that’s one thing, but now they’ve come into our cities, and all Iraqis will fight them." Another man, Sayid Yahia, had to secure the release of his son from the Marines, who had arrested him for possession of a rifle. "Is this your liberation?" he demanded of reporters (http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/446/446_03_LiberationOfOil.shtml)

the population of baghdad is around 4834773 (http://populations.com/Country.asp?ID=78&CityID=3401), and the accounts of CNN estimated the crowd pulling down the statue at 1500. a small difference? im sure that the majority of the country is against Saddam, i have no doubt of that. but, notice that when they were pulling the Saddam statue down, and the americans put up the american flag, the crowd didnt like that much. a professor said that on arabic tv you could see and hear the crowd not like the flag. thus, they took it down quickly. these people are cheering for the downfall of iraq, not the future occupation of iraq by the US.

you want to know how much the US cares about the future of Iraq? when i was at the talk last night, the professor from Iraq mentioned the name of Sayed Abdul Majid al-Khoei (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/10/sprj.irq.assassination/index.html), and talked about how if you go to iraqi shi'ites in iraq right now, many people never have heard of him, or when asked about him, the people say they want to puke because they dont like him. this, he told us, is what the CIA has reported. in fact, he is a convicted embezzler in Jordan, and was suspected of embezzling in the US. but, he was very much for the Shi'ites working with coalition forces, so, thats why you have him back in Iraq, after living in London for many years, attempting to "re-establish" himself, even though he never really was established for anything good. In the words of the professor last night, "he was blessed with a good name, but it ends there."

here is a nice section of an article about a certain US marines thoughts:
In a revolting interview in the New York Times, Schrumpf, a sharpshooter with the Fifth Marine Regiment, bragged openly about having killed Iraqis. "We had a great day," Schrumpf said to his partner as the reporter listened. "We killed a lot of people."

He shrugged off the civilian toll: "We dropped a few civilians, but what do you do?" More than once, according to Schrumpf, he has faced the choice of whether to take a shot at an Iraqi soldier standing among civilians.

As the Times reported: "He recalled one such incident, in which he and other men in his unit opened fire. He recalled watching one of the women standing near the Iraqi soldier go down. "‘I’m sorry,’ the sergeant said. ‘But the chick was in the way.’" (http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/447/447_05_IraqiVictims.shtml)

Anti communist: as far as your thoughts on "anti-american-ism," see my signature.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 11:46 am on April 10, 2003)

[Xvall]

Dark Capitalist:

She didn't answer his question though.

I know. However, I don't know about her; but most of the anti-war protestors don't believe that Saddam Hussein's regime should stay, simply that invading the country was not the correct way to go about crushing it.

Liberty Lover:

I suppose that is why the streets of Baghdad are filled with Iraqi's cheering the results of war.

Iraq is a country of some twenty-four million people. You are exaggerating your statements. There are no huge anti-Hussein parades throughout the streets of Bagdhad. Everyone is not out in the street cheering. Some are; yes, most are not. You media has provided us with a few videos of 15-30 Iraqi's tearing down a statue, running out of buildings with potted plants, etc. They continue to use the same videos over and over. It's not like everyone is out in the street waving American flags in the middle of Bagdhad.

There wasn't one.

Maybe if the guy wasn't interrupting her to call her a little girl every five seconds; she could have possibly gotten past the first three words of her sentence. It was kind of like this:
" I think that the war .. "
" No, No, No little girl! You are not an adult, you do not understand! "

The People who are celebrating on the streets of every city in Iraq right know obviously disagree with him.

Wishful thinking and asinine speculation. Aside from the fact that is is impossible for you or anyone to monitor every single city, town, and village in Iraq; if everyone was in the streets, no one would be working, farming, cooking, sleeping, etc. Essentially; everyone would die with that kind of attitutde.

AK-47:

its actualy closer to 3,000,000 when you take into acount when he launched chemical weapons an Iranian troops.

Yep. How horrible! Oh wait, I forgot! The United States was supporting him in that conflict. It's A-OK!

Anti-Communist:

It shows the mentality of the MAJORITY of the anti war (anti American really) crowd.

That's right. One person's opinion obviously reflects that of millions. You know the nazis are considered right-wing. Can I take on of their opinions and claim that this is the opinion of all right-wingers? Would you like that, Monty?

The question was real simple and all she could say was "give peace a chance".

Actually; all she could say was 'I think that..' before getting interrupted and eventually, cut off.

The guy could have showed her the video of the dead Kurds after the gasing, including babies, or the video on 20/20 a few weeks ago where they tied guys to poles and shot them in the south after the '91 uprising.

And I can show you videos of Afghan, Vietnamese, and Iraqi children with their heads blown to pieced by American artillery shells. What's your point?

I hate these fucking peace lovers.

Good; we hate you too. Maybe one day we can just all get guns and try to kill each other off. Sound like fun?

They preech peace even when we are potentially saving millions of Iraqis from dying in the future from another gasing.

They preach an alternate solution to the Hussein problem. You are a liar. I know you don't give a shit about the Iraqis; just like you don't give a shit about the people of Colombia, El Salvador, Vietnam, Indonesia, North Korea, and Africa. Hell; Americans don't even want to help each other. I will never believe that you are doing this to help others.

We might have killed some civilians and I have no doubt we did. But it was all by accident, not intentionaly. And the price paid by those few civilians killed, even if they number in the thousands which they don't, is well worth it for freeing 25 million Iraqis.

Oh. I see. So you are freeing people from bad regimes? Why don't you free Saudia Arabia then? They are just as tyrannic and probably even more religiously fundamentalist than Iraq.

I had a great feeling yesterday when I saw the statue coming down and the Iraqis in Baghdad and in Dearborn, MI thanking the troops and the President as they were flying the American flag. I had such a great pride in being an American and knowing that we had done a good and honorable thing and that the people that we are helping (the Iraqis) knew that our intentions are good and honorable.

No reply. Simply your expression.

You are not being nice. If you disagree with peace activists; fine. But don't talk about hating them. They don't want anything to do with hurting you.

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 9:51 pm on April 10, 2003)