Whats the point of Democracy - if you can't have an opinion

[Lardlad95]

Recently I've seen a lot of pro war people saying this.

"Those soldiers are out there fighting for your freedom so that you can live in a country where you can protest"


another more harsh said


"If you disagree with us and Bush we'll do to you what we are doing to saddam"


Now I ask you whats the point of a "land of the free"

if you can't have an opinion.

America makes this huge point of being so free, freedom of speech and all.

But suddenly if you disagree with war your anti American, your a terrorist, etc.


The fuck?

I just don't want people to die.

Sure I'm a socialsit but I don't hate america, it's my home.

So why is it that when you disagree your suddenly labeled as being hateful to America?

People act like I want saddam to win or something.

They are like how can you not support the war my (insert family member here) is out there fighting


Hey if it was up to me they would be at home with you.

It's the war that made them leave.


I don't support the troops because they are fighting a war I don't approve of

that doesn't mena I want them all to be killed.

I don't wish harm on them

I just disagree with the war.

[Dhul Fiqar]

You just don't get it do you?

America has loads of bombs, Iraq has loads of oil. If we just bomb a bunch of nameless brown people it won't cost so much to run SUVs!

Seriously, I know what you mean, but don't worry about it, it will drive you insane if you try to figure out the ignorance of other people.

--- G.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I guess its freedom of choice, THEIR choice.

Luckily I live in an island that is anti-war, but I am getting sick of trying to explain my views using words of less than 5 letters.

I am sick of the feeling of helplessness, I just want the Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam, then kick the invadors out.

[El Barbudo]

In America, you must be republican, or at least democrat... Socialist are not welcome because of stupids rednecks that cant do the difference between socialist and ''fucking bastards of soviet''. Hopefully, I live in Canada where everybody lives happy, even our terrorists... :s Seriously, in Quebec, its politicaly correct to be antiamerican, but people dont understand we dont have to be antiamerican to be antibush...

[Blibblob]

I am getting sick and tired of being called "un-american", and a traitor. Something does need to be done. But what? All I can think of is that the average american needs to get a brain and think before spewing.

[Pete]

I was told that I was being a hypocrite for criticizing the Canadian government on something they did a month back.

[Blibblob]

Well, you can insult another country as much as you want, and most would laugh. But lay one damaging word on your country, and into the pits you go. They'll never forget you said it. That comes from personal experience...;)

[Pete]

I don't care. They can be flag waving nationalists all they want. All it means is that they are even more against America then I am. They don't even give the people a chance.

[Hayduke]

The fact that scares me even more is that a country can keep doing there plans even when the majority of its people disagree with it.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from D DAY on 12:50 am on April 6, 2003
The fact that scares me even more is that a country can keep doing there plans even when the majority of its people disagree with it.



the majority of Americans agree with Dubaya, and according to some screwed-up poll, so does the majority of the Brittish.

[Anti communist]

D Day, are you talking about the Americans' support of the Iraq war? 70% of the American public agrees with it, including many democrats.

[Blibblob]

Oh, but out of that poll, how many of that 70% actually knew what is going on? How many actually know what this war is, what its doing to the people, and why it's happening? LARGE American flaw, the average American will debate, even if they know nothing of the topic.

And onto the reality of this war for the Average American. To Americans, this war is a game. They see no real life aspect in it, they wont see the dead body of an Iraqi staring back at them. They will morn over the death of an American, but never realize how many Iraqis that one American killed. They will see the one sided aspect of it, an American died. That is the only part that pertains to real life. "He isn't dead mommy, he's playing a game."
I posted that in another forum, full of wannabe capitalists.

[smith196]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 6:54 pm on April 5, 2003

Quote: from D DAY on 12:50 am on April 6, 2003
The fact that scares me even more is that a country can keep doing there plans even when the majority of its people disagree with it.



the majority of Americans agree with Dubaya, and according to some screwed-up poll, so does the majority of the Brittish.


The majority of British people disagree with the war before it started by about to two to one. Now that its started and our troops are risking their lifes about 55-60% support it.

[Pete]

Is it that they support the troops, or that they support the war? There is a difference. Many Americans here, I think, support their troops, in hopes that they will comehome very soon and not in body bags while they are against the war.

[Tkinter1]

I think they assume that if you are not "pro-liberation"(not war) then you are anti-liberation, which would make you a very hypocritical American.

No one is arresting you for your opinion.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 6:21 am on April 6, 2003)

[Boris Moskovitz]

Actually I support the Americans, in their illegal invasion on Iraq and kiddie-bombing [/sarcasm]

Anyways, this website is for you people against the war, that is what the major public is going to say against you...
Right there:
http://www.politicalstrikes.com/.images/ps830.jpg

And if you want the description.... its the second strip from the top...
http://www.politicalstrikes.com/i00.html

If you are against the illegal, civilian-slaughtering war, then you are not patriotic! You just hate America! You hypocrite!

[synthesis]

With regards to the accusations flying about regarding "anti-Americanism", I created a "stock post" a few weeks ago which I use to rebuke such ignorant claims. The quotes took me a while to collect. Just insert it when replying to any such line of reasoning. Be sure to remember to replace the 'xxx' near the bottom with the person's name.

________________________________




“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world — no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”
-Woodrow Wilson

“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today.”
-Theodore Roosevelt

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”
-Abraham Lincoln

“The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. ... From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it.”
-Henry Adams

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power.”
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

“We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both.”
-Louis Brandeis (Supreme Court Justice 1916-39)

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, from those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”
-Dwight Eisenhower

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it.”
-Abraham Lincoln


This final link that I will provide you, xxx, differs from the rest in that it comes from the pen of not an American president, founding father or other official figure, but from a man named John Locke - a man on whose ideals this country was founded.

“Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate; we are all qualified, entitled, and morally obliged to evaluate the conduct of our rulers.

This political judgment, moreover, is not simply or primarily a right, but like self-preservation, a duty to God. As such it is a judgment that men cannot part with according to the God of Nature.

It is the first and foremost of our inalienable rights without which we can preserve no other.”

[Boris Moskovitz]

Nice... where did you find all those? And to think they are all, well, at least most of them, are American presidents.

[peaccenicked]

Prowar ignorance is a sickness gnawing away at the heart of imperialism, everyday the case for war is weakened, the propaganda war is so screwed up. It becomes harder and harder for them to defend the indefensible. Once the US oil companies have the oil, and their army is still in place, they only ones left to argue with will be laughed off the public arena........
They might find their only refuge is here.......
LOL

[hazard]

i never get sick of pointing this out

freedom only means
FREE ENTERPIRZE

freedom of speech only means
FREE ENTERPRIZE PRESS


this little "word game" has been played for so long that MARX himself refers to it in the Communist Manifesto

everybody realizes this is true in the quotes made in the original post. freedom really only means slavery.

(Edited by hazard at 5:39 pm on April 7, 2003)

[Chiak47]

To all the reds,

I support the Gulags.

Thanks,
Purged before

[notyetacommie]

No wonder! It is there where YOU belong.

[Invader Zim]

I would just like to point out that very few civillians are dying... and many of those that are is because of Saddam either placing military targits nex to hospitals, schools and homes etc. There is also evidence to suggest that he also fired rockets at his own people and blame it on the USA to get more support from his people.

Also to say that the USA is diliberatly striking the civillians is simply rubbish... "The bombs hit Bagdad the lights stayed on." They are making a huge effort to save civillians. But no operation is perfect, and civillians will die. But how many thousands/hundreds of thousands will die if they do not remove saddam from power.

A few 100 to hundreds of thousands... Which is more morraly correct....

AK47

[Pete]

I have read that if the war lasts another 2 weeks more will be dead from American/British soldiers than from Saddam over the last 20 years. The is discluding wars.

[Klondike]

I know this has probably been said in here before, but America doesn't have democracy, ITS A FUCKING REPUBLIC. A democracy is where all citizens get together and decide all they're issues involving the country. America is obviously a republic because the country is obvioulsy too friggen big to do that.

I know that America isn't really the subject, just thought I'd bring that to the attention of the right-wingers in here.