Battle of Democracy - New Rage Album or old Marx quote?

[hazard]

"... the first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy." MARX, Communist Manifesto

I would like the crappies, er, I mean cappies to confront this statement. Head on.

marx is saying that a communist revolution is necessary in order for democracy to be achieved

is he a hypocrite? is he deranged? is he correct?

his stance is that communism IS NOT against democracy, despite what all of the capitalist "democracies" say about it. naturally, all admitted socialists and communists will agree with his position

what do you have to say about it? how is communism in opposition to democracy? or is it simply that the capitalists want their slaves to think that their version of democracy is the only model out there.

[Liberty Lover]

Karl Marx believed that capitalism would destroy itself through spiraling competition. The owners of the means of production would eventually be swallowed up by the mass of workers. The "dictatorship of the proletariat" would arise and eliminate the last remnants of capitalism. Industry and government would be run entirely by this group of workers. Marx believed that a Communist utopia would arise once the dictatorship was no longer needed and the state withered away. In his vision of utopia, Marx predicted that each person would give according to their means and receive according to their needs. Failed communist experiments have proven that Marx's theory is impractical and cannot evolve beyond the proletariat dictatorship.

[Pete]

L.L. you must remember it took 900 years for capitalism to take hold as it has today. You cannot expect that in 150 years communism will have done the same. Capitalism failed horribly in its first experiments, the people where not ready. Remember the Fugers? But as time progressed their financing of empires, combined with the second agricultural revolution allowed the middle class to take hold. We are still waiting for the correct environment, and you only spout defeatism because you are afraid that what I say is true. I think that the capitalists are afraid of communism, and that is why they oppose it, what other reason do they have?

It will come. Patience LL. Justice will be met.

[hazard]

ll:

thanks for not answerng my main question

thanks for not answering any of my guiding questions

thanks for the unnecessary summary of the rest of Marx's position

thanks, in other words, for nothing

as it stands, the pro capitlaist factions have been annhilated by this single question

[synthesis]

The dictatorship of the proletariat, both when semantically analyzed and in theory, is democracy.

The word 'dictatorship' implies that it is not a democracy, when in fact, it is the entire proletariat which establishes hegemony over the bourgeoisie, much as the bourgeoisie usurped power from the feudal nobility, and controls the state as a single entity.

Lenin believed that to put this theory into practice, this dictatorship needed an elite vanguard. It seems to me, though, that the interests of this vanguard have been inimical to the interests of the proletariat in every Leninist state that has existed.

I think the first order of any burgeoning socialist movement is to develop a new method of establishing Marxism.

(Edited by DyerMaker at 2:00 am on April 7, 2003)

[Blibblob]

Nice, I said that a while ago. Like back when I said we needed to rewrite the Communist Manefiesto. Communism needs to be completely rethought. We are doing that now, but slowly. These capitalists here are helping, at the same time they are hampening. They question things, we find flaws and fix them. But at times new ones come and ask old questions. We have to repeat ourselves, slowing us down. I think that we need to scan through almost every thread and post in the database of this site, and pick out good points and rethought ideas. Mass them all together we must. Create the super book, a rewritten view of communism.

[hazard]

Bilbllo:

sounds like a plan

what do you think the focus of a modernized communist manifesto should be?

I would focus on the controls used by capitalism to prevent revolution. that would really be the only way to modernize the manifesto, for the original never touched upon any ideas like this. the original also is perfectly functional in every other regard, despite the fact that it is so old.