How come I only ever see people use the phrase "it sounds good on paper" in regards

[Incendiarism]

to communism

It's driving me insane because there is a 99.5% chance these will be the first words uttered on any given occasion and I'm like "so what asshole that's what they said about capitalism"

[GPDP]

A professor of mine said (not in reference to communism, btw) that this phrase is bollocks, as any sound theory that looks good on paper SHOULD work well in practice as well; if it results otherwise, either the theory was not followed correctly, or the theory is shit. And if you think the theory will lead to disastrous results, then you are being inconsistent in calling the theory good and sound.

So, IMO, in regards to communism, either man up and call both the theory and its supposed practice bad, or if you still like the idea, recognize that the theory may not have been applied as it should've been.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

In my experience it's a substitute for saying "I wish."

The only exceptions I can think of are Ran-droids and Friedmonites who would prefer a nuclear holocaust than functional communism.

While we're on this subject I have a terrible nightmare of Ayn Rand stubbing in for Slim Pickens. While she's riding the bomb she's saying, "Reciprocate this two-ton nuke, motherfucker!"

[pusher robot]

to communism

It's driving me insane because there is a 99.5% chance these will be the first words uttered on any given occasion and I'm like "so what asshole that's what they said about capitalism"

Honestly, it's out of politeness to the committed communists. I'd guess at least 90% of the time you hear that, the other person is thinking, "I doubt this bloke really means to advocate for a system that has proven to be catastrophic to both wealth and human rights almost every time it was attempted - I'll be charitable and assume he has good intentions - how can I disagree without backing him into a corner..."

[BashTheFash]

My mum always says communism is perfect in theory but always fails in practice. Annoys me greatly.

[Ratatosk]

A professor of mine said (not in reference to communism, btw) that this phrase is bollocks, as any sound theory that looks good on paper SHOULD work well in practice as well; if it results otherwise, either the theory was not followed correctly, or the theory is shit.Exactly what I was going to say. It's a retarded cop-out.

[jake williams]

Because you sound like a complete psychopath if argue against communism on moral grounds. No one wants to say that they themselves are completely and utterly self-interested, opposed to workers controlling their own lives and communities, that they believe the wealthiest and most powerful members of the society should be a tiny minority that illegitimately control the means of production and exploit workers for profit, while everyone else almost starves - no one in conversation feels comfortable defending this system, which is "capitalism on paper". So what people argue is, well, you know, communism [which I think is in accord with people's basic beliefs about human decency and sense] sounds good, but it doesn't really "work".

[BashTheFash]

"A professor of mine said (not in reference to communism, btw) that this phrase is bollocks, as any sound theory that looks good on paper SHOULD work well in practice as well; if it results otherwise, either the theory was not followed correctly, or the theory is shit"

We should all use that as a comeback now when told It is good in theory and bad in practice :thumbup1:

[La Comédie Noire]

When someone asks that it's always best to respond with "have you even read what's on the paper??"

[RGacky3]

I find that funny, because everything Capitalism is supposed to be on paper is'nt that way in real life :P. So Capitalism is bad on paper, and much worse in real life.

Communism, real communism (i.e. Anarcho-Communism), has worked in real life every time (I'm not going to make a list for the Capialists, because its been done before and they just ignore it, instead only focusing on the Leninist shams), and really does'nt have much paper dedicated to it, at least much less than Capitalism.

[jake williams]

So Capitalism is bad on paper, and much worse in real life.
This too.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

This too.

RGacky, that was absolutely brilliant. :D

[spice756]

to communism

It's driving me insane because there is a 99.5% chance these will be the first words uttered on any given occasion and I'm like "so what asshole that's what they said about capitalism"

It has nothing to do if it will work or not.It is just propaganda the conservative like to use.

Has there has been no true communit country may be 80% but that is all.Think of it this way a space shuttle is going crash 2 or 3 times to they get it right.So why would communit country work the first 2 or 3 times .This time is to look at history and put laws and protocols in place.To stop other USSR,China or North Korea .

[Incendiarism]

I know, I'm just pointing out the rather unusual consistency that people use the term.

[spice756]

Because you sound like a complete psychopath if argue against communism on moral grounds. No one wants to say that they themselves are completely and utterly self-interested, opposed to workers controlling their own lives and communities, that they believe the wealthiest and most powerful members of the society


Well if they are pro-capitalists or people who want to get rich or start a small businesses yes :(:( but most working class or middle class are not just brainwashed.Thanks to are schools ,TV,radio,books and media so on.

Remember the red scare days that was the hight of brainwashing of people.Just check youtube there lots of old clips from the 50's and 60's like this.






should be a tiny minority that illegitimately control the means of production and exploit workers for profit, while everyone else almost starves -


I believe subconscious they know this.It is just filed away in their brain.



no one in conversation feels comfortable defending this system, which is "capitalism on paper". So what people argue is, well, you know, communism [which I think is in accord with people's basic beliefs about human decency and sense] sounds good, but it doesn't really "work".

Most believe capitalism is democracy and communism is not and is evile.Thanks to US brainwashing going on.What needs to be done is educating the people of what is communism and problems with capitalism .

[spice756]

My mum always says communism is perfect in theory but always fails in practice. Annoys me greatly.

She probably values her house and money and does not like sharing.If she is a middle class she will be counter-revolution.

[RGacky3]

She probably values her house and money and does not like sharing.If she is a middle class she will be counter-revolution.

I guanrantee you most poor people, if they made a bit or money in this system, would'nt like sharing, its human nature to react that way in a hostile Capitalist enviroment.

If your already labeling people as counter-revolution, then I would not want to be any part of your revolution.


should be a tiny minority that illegitimately control the means of production and exploit workers for profit, while everyone else almost starves - I believe subconscious they know this.It is just filed away in their brain.

Most people's concept of Communism is exactly that, only replace the Capitalist with a totalitarian State, which is more scary.

[Bud Struggle]

People say that Communism "sounds good on paper" because "on paper" is the only place Communsim has ever or will ever exist.

It's a fairy tail for grown ups.

I'll admit--it is a lovely thought.

[spice756]

I guanrantee you most poor people, if they made a bit or money in this system, would'nt like sharing, its human nature to react that way in a hostile Capitalist enviroment.

If your already labeling people as counter-revolution, then I would not want to be any part of your revolution.




If you have very little money and a shitty job alway exploited at work you are going be mad.If you have a okay job and a good life a revolution is not that essential.And if you have assets you NOT going to want to give it up to the stae.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

to communism

It's driving me insane because there is a 99.5% chance these will be the first words uttered on any given occasion and I'm like "so what asshole that's what they said about capitalism"

No, no one is saying that about capitalism because capitalism actually works. Everything that we have good on this Earth has come from capitalism.

You system has been tried many times and its done nothign but brought forth destruction and evil. Its been given many chances and 100s of millions have died because of it.

Great idea, wrong species.

[Decolonize The Left]

No, no one is saying that about capitalism because capitalism actually works. Everything that we have good on this Earth has come from capitalism.

That beautiful sunset? You can thank capitalism for those colors...

The joy of loving someone? Not possible without capitalism! Did you know that before capitalism existed, nothing good could be found anywhere? Seriously!

And since God is the ultimate good, God didn't exist before capitalism either!

Tool.

- August

[spice756]

No, no one is saying that about capitalism because capitalism actually works. Everything that we have good on this Earth has come from capitalism.



What? we got depressions and recessions ,imperialism wars , homeless ,poverty ,people starving ,economic problems ,crimes , job exploitation ,market problems ,people that are sick and die ,lack of education and healthcare ,the poor and rich,greed so on.

There is enough food to feed everyone on earth but no the G8-countries keep it all.We exploit most of the world other than the Canada ,US and UK.

Many people die do to lack of free healthcare .There is homeless in one of the richest countries the US and Canada.

[spice756]

You system has been tried many times and its done nothign but brought forth destruction and evil. Its been given many chances and 100s of millions have died because of it.

Great idea, wrong species.


So having black slaves ,torture ,segregation,women not allowed to vote or having job,gays and lesbians in jail,hippies and communist punched and kicked and put in jail ,killing natives,wars and killing :cursing:Sounds totalitarian
to me...And all this happen in the US.

[shorelinetrance]

People say that Communism "sounds good on paper" because "on paper" is the only place Communsim has ever or will ever exist
compelling argument. we all value your input. :rolleyes:

[Bud Struggle]

compelling argument. we all value your input. :rolleyes:

Communism was a 19th Century concept that existed briefly in the late 19th and early 20th Century. It's gone, but there are valuable lessons to be learned for that experiment. Stop waisting time on reactionaries like Stalin and Mao and Trotsky and find a way that Communist ideas can move into the future.

[shorelinetrance]

Communism was a 19th Century concept that existed briefly in the late 19th and early 20th Century. It's gone, but there are valuable lessons to be learned for that experiment. Stop waisting time on reactionaries like Stalin and Mao and Trotsky and find a way that Communist ideas can move into the future.
my head hurts

[Bud Struggle]

my head hurts

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/cmp4105/TR-RodSerling.jpg

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle-ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an economic philosophy we call "Communism.''

[GPDP]

You know, Tom, you have an awful lot to say about Marxists and their regimes, but I don't think I've ever heard you say anything about us anarchists.

What do you think of our take on communism? I mean, we don't uphold Stalin or Trotsky, after all.

[IcarusAngel]

You know, Tom, you have an awful lot to say about Marxists and their regimes, but I don't think I've ever heard you say anything about us anarchists.

TomK has made disparaging remarks about those of us who are anarchists several times, regarding it as a kiddy theory that no serious people believe in.

When it was pointed out that several older people have been anarchist, and were smart people, he shut up.


What do you think of our take on communism? I mean, we don't uphold Stalin or Trotsky, after all.

Anarchism is communism?

I think there are a lot of similarities, but they're different theories.

[GPDP]

There are Marxist communists, and anarcho-communists. But indeed, not all anarchists are communists. My mistake.

[JimmyJazz]

I'm like "so what asshole that's what they said about capitalism"

I'm not sure you want to make this your defense. Making the individual totally sovereign over the collective probably did sound like a good idea at one point in history, and it has turned out shitty.

[RGacky3]

People say that Communism "sounds good on paper" because "on paper" is the only place Communsim has ever or will ever exist.

It's a fairy tail for grown ups.

Ok one more damn time.

Anarchist Spain,
Zapatista Chiapas,
Anarchist Ukriane,
Hungary during the 1950s revolution,
Oaxaca,
Argentine worker takeovers,
Kibbutz,
Many would consider the Pirate communities to be Anarchist,
Many native American tribes,
Many Quaker settlements.

Now that being said Communism and Anarchism are relatively new and have always faced egnormase opposition, so I'm personally amazing that any communist communities have existed at all.


Stop waisting time on reactionaries like Stalin and Mao and Trotsky and find a way that Communist ideas can move into the future.

I agree, thats what we are doing, but the principles (not those of Stalin, Mao and Trotsky, those of Communism) are the same.

[Incendiarism]

I'm not sure you want to make this your defense. Making the individual totally sovereign over the collective probably did sound like a good idea at one point in history, and it has turned out shitty.

Agreed, it's just funny to see them cringe about it because they almost always are under the impression capitalism has been the only system we have ever used. Feudalism? No way, the capitalists have always been around.

It's just nice to refresh their memory that the fight for capitalism wasn't an easy one, therefore the assertion that socialism is impossible is an absurd claim.

[GPDP]

Perhaps these people are of the mind that we are at the "end of history" concerning politico-economic systems, that liberal capitalism is the end-all be-all, the best system that humans can ever achieve as long as they are humans as we know them.

[JimmyJazz]

Agreed, it's just funny to see them cringe about it because they almost always are under the impression capitalism has been the only system we have ever used. Feudalism? No way, the capitalists have always been around.

Yeah, true. It's frustrating as hell when libertarian types do that. The truth is they are defining capitalism simply by the presence of free exchange, but that's obviously dumb because in that case capitalism includes Native American barter systems and the word loses all usefulness. Capitalism is defined more by social relations in production than by the existence of a market, in fact, there's such a thing as "market socialism" and it is not a contradiction in terms. I once encountered a guy online who insisted that capitalism goes back 10,000 years, so I asked him why people spontaneously decided to organize into unions and go on strikes starting around 1820, and he really didn't have an answer.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Because it looks damn sexy on paper.

You know what look's horrible when a written explanation of it is given? Capitalism.

[spice756]

Because it looks damn sexy on paper.

You know what look's horrible when a written explanation of it is given? Capitalism.

So if that is the case why do you support Capitalism?

[Bud Struggle]

Many would consider the Pirate communities to be Anarchist,
I kinda look like a Pirate, Arrrr! :lol:

[Bud Struggle]

You know, Tom, you have an awful lot to say about Marxists and their regimes, but I don't think I've ever heard you say anything about us anarchists.

What do you think of our take on communism? I mean, we don't uphold Stalin or Trotsky, after all.

First of all, I actually kind of like a lot of what Comminists have to say. I mostly poke fun of Communists because that's what a OI Capitalist dog is supposed to do. I'm keeping up appearances. Hopefully my jabs are more funny than pointed. It's not my intention to cause anyone any discomfort.

And Anarchists: not a bad idea--but honestly I can't see it working more than a couple of days in some out of the way backwater where everyone is related--Kentucky for example. Again--I think you guys mean well so I have nothing personally bad to say about you.

I will try to think up a few jokes next time a discussion about Anarchism comes up.:thumbup1::reda: ;)

I can see that Pirate thing being kind of humorous. :)

[RGacky3]

. I mostly poke fun of Communists because that's what a OI Capitalist dog is supposed to do.

nope an OI Capitalist dog is supposed to challenge our viewpoints and engage our minds.


And Anarchists: not a bad idea--but honestly I can't see it working more than a couple of days in some out of the way backwater where everyone is related--Kentucky for example. Again--I think you guys mean well so I have nothing personally bad to say about you.

but it HAS WORKED, for longer periods of time, in larger areas, you can't just keep ignoring history.


I can see that Pirate thing being kind of humorous.

Yeah, but its true, historically.