Austria grants 16 year olds the right to vote

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Very good.


TEENAGERS get plenty of flak for the demise of civilisation, blamed for undercutting everything from good manners to proper dress sense. But one European country is ready to give more of them a voice in politics. On Sunday, Austria will become the first country in the European Union to give 16-year-olds the right to vote in national elections.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/09/sweet_16_and_old_enough_to_vot.cfm

[jake williams]

That's great.

[OI OI OI]

How is it great?:confused:

16 year olds voting in the bourgeois elections....

Is anything going to change?

[jake williams]

How is it great?:confused:

16 year olds voting in the bourgeois elections....

Is anything going to change?
Would you say that about women? There's a good argument that giving women the vote just invested them in the bourgeois system and in a way deradicalized a lot of women pushing back a real workers' revolution for decades or centuries. Do you oppose women's suffrage?

[spartan]

I don't really see this as good or bad.

Personally I don't think it will really make any difference, and I doubt alot of 16 year olds will even bother voting (most adults don't so why would teenagers be any different?) except for those who go to college and university and don't want to pay tuition fees and shit.

Either way prepare for a dumbing down of politics where the president will be releasing rap singles to get the new "young vote" becuase he/she thinks that's what young people regard as "cool".:lol::(

The chances are the governing party are probably only doing this because they have seen polls which shows they are popular with young voters, so to stay in power they lower the age limit for voting so they can potentially get more people to vote for them and keep them in power in the next elections.

Politicians never do anything out of the good of their hearts unless they gain from it somehow, and this is no different.

[Hiero]

The positive side is that many teenagers will see that by a major institution recognising their vote as valid that they are able to understand politics and that political outcomes affect their lives.

No more can teenagers say "I am just a teenager, politics doesn't matter to me" when the bourgeoisie state recgonises their opinion in the formal voting system.

jammoe compare this to woman's sufferage because by giving woman the vote it recgonises their opinions and their destiny affect by political action.

[JimmyJazz]

I don't really see this as good or bad.

this.

[Magdalen]

Cuba have allowed sixteen-year-olds to vote for over 30 years, the Austrian government's decision, while not a bad one, is not exactly a revolutionary step.

[OI OI OI]

Would you say that about women? There's a good argument that giving women the vote just invested them in the bourgeois system and in a way deradicalized a lot of women pushing back a real workers' revolution for decades or centuries. Do you oppose women's suffrage?

Bad analogy.

Teenagers are not an opressed group like women are.

Of course I support women voting.

But I don't have a very good opinion about the teens of the first world. Most of them are spoiled little brats who only care about themselves.

So stop making stupid analogies and understand that those teenagers would be 99% influenced by their conservative parents in the ellections or abstain.

[jake williams]

Teenagers are not an opressed group...
False!


...like women are.
True. For one thing, ignorant folks like yourself absolutely refuse to acknowledge their oppression. Also, everyone is a teenager for awhile and then moves on, whereas only half the population is female but they are so for the rest of their lives, in general. There are major differences in the functioning of the oppression, but both groups are oppressed.


Of course I support women voting.
That's great!


But I don't have a very good opinion about the teens of the first world. Most of them are spoiled little brats who only care about themselves.
I don't have a very good opinion of the working class in the first world. They're ignorant, uneducated, short-sighted and self-interested.


So stop making stupid analogies and understand that those teenagers would be 99% influenced by their conservative parents in the ellections or abstain.
This is false too. If you knew anything about the political reality of the demographic you'd know that.

[OI OI OI]

Ok I won't waste my time arguing with a Maoist that thinks that the First World proletariat is stupid and ignorant.

Neither I will waste my time arguing about whether or not teens are an oppressed group or if its good that they vote in bourgeois ellections.

You seem to have a lot of illusions in the borugeois system.

Also how are teens opressed? They feed of their parents , most of them are spoiled with a computer and video games, etc etc, most of them do not even work part time!

They are spoiled ignorant brats .

[#FF0000]

Ok I won't waste my time arguing with a Maoist that thinks that the First World proletariat is stupid and ignorant.

Neither I will waste my time arguing about whether or not teens are an oppressed group or if its good that they vote in bourgeois ellections.

You seem to have a lot of illusions in the borugeois system.

Also how are teens opressed? They feed of their parents , most of them are spoiled with a computer and video games, etc etc, most of them do not even work part time!

They are spoiled ignorant brats .

That's funny since people under the age of 18 in the United States have traditionally been the most likely demographic to be living in poverty., at 21%, with black youth on the far end of that bell curve, with 30% living in poverty.

In the UK, 21% live under the median income. That statistic rises to 28% when one factors in housing cost.

In Germany, the percentage of children that receive welfare varies from state to state. I calculated the average to be 18.25, with the median being 18.6, and the modes being 14.0 and 20.8. The data rages from 6.6 (In Bavaria) to 30.7 (in Berlin).

Across the board, if one looked at the statistics and the trends, one will see under 18's are consistently among the poorest demographics. It makes sense, since the poorest demographics usually also have more children, due to backward religious belief, inadequate schooling and education...etc. Even if under 18s don't work, they are still among the most impoverished demographics in the industrialized world.

EDIT: These statistics are a bit out of date. 2006 for the U.S. numbers, and 2003-04 for the UK numbers. 2005 for the German numbers

[#FF0000]

The positive side is that many teenagers will see that by a major institution recognising their vote as valid that they are able to understand politics and that political outcomes affect their lives.

No more can teenagers say "I am just a teenager, politics doesn't matter to me" when the bourgeoisie state recgonises their opinion in the formal voting system.

Exactly. I'm sort of disappointed that more people don't seem to understand this. How near-sighted (or far-sighted?) some people are. This is making it easier for 16 year olds to develop a political consciousness. Just because they aren't radicals now doesn't mean this is not a progressive step.

[Q]

A progressive step, let the rest of Europe take an example of this!

[Devrim]

How is it great?:confused:

16 year olds voting in the bourgeois elections....

Is anything going to change?

Quite amusing from a supporter of a party whose main focus is on supporting bourgeois parties in elections.

Devrim

[Wanted Man]

I was just thinking that. Something about a glass house and stones. Oi should be happy. Now his group can coax more impressionable teenagers into reinforcing the social-democrats. Thereby perpetuating (well, only slightly, it's not as if they are important or anything) the bourgeois political system by improving turnout rates* and support for the old social-democrats.

*What kind of effect will this actually have on the turnout rates? You'd get a bigger electorate, but how many 16-18-year-olds will actually vote?

[spartan]

I think it should be pointed out that, according to BBC news, in the Austrian elections the far-right parties got a much bigger share of the vote then the two traditional parties, who saw a sharp decline.:(

Were 16-17 year olds allowed to vote in this election?

[Wanted Man]

I think it should be pointed out that, according to BBC news, in the Austrian elections the far-right parties got a much bigger share of the vote then the two traditional parties, who saw a sharp decline.:(

Were 16-17 year olds allowed to vote in this election?

Yup. Although that's probably not the reason why the FPÖ stands to gain. It's just the social-democrats reaping the reward for participating in a horribly failed 'grand coalition' with the conservatives.

[Sam_b]

Neither I will waste my time arguing about whether or not teens are an oppressed group or if its good that they vote in bourgeois ellections.

You're a fool. Talking of my experience as a youth organiser for a leftist youth group a couple of years ago, the rise of the Youth Crime Bill in Scotland being a great example of such things we organised against; I can safely say that you're either being completely flippant or ignorant of the argument.

Of course teens aren't oppressed as much as women are, but does that, for example, stop teenage women from being oppressed on both or either front?

But I guess your tirade in participating in bourgeois elections has no relevance to your British section working in the Labour party, does it?:rolleyes: