What do you think about a peaceful communist revolution - ca

[englandsgay]

My understanding is that Marx thought that you couldnt have a revolution that would work through reform only through violence. what do modern communists think about that now a days? Is it still true or have things changed. Im intrested in what you think.

[peaccenicked]

Most modern leftists look at people power in the old Soviet bloc and that was relatively peaceful transfer of power.
If people power had been left to develop in Iraq instead of being shafted by the US since 1991, then the US/UK/aus coalition would not be shitting their pants right now.

[englandsgay]

yea, but what I'm talking about is how you get an industrailized capitalist country to become a communist one. Because I'm pretty convinced that the culture would never permit one of these, like the US, to become truly communist.. the farthest it would go would to be capitalist with a thick socialist overlay like in Europe. Is it logically possible at all? someone out theres got to know what the up and budding communist theory is about that.. if there is one i mean.

[peaccenicked]

The consensus on the left among most who write editorials for left papers is that in the west we are objectively weak, that boils down to about 5% support of the population of the advanced capitalist counties. We are not for painting rosy pictures where there are none, though oficial optimism sometimes creeps in.
The ability of the revolutionary left to win over hearts and minds is also dependent on the rate of decay of all alternatives. Most of the left see that decay happening and it will take the form of a series of events, each one bringing the people closer to a socialist solution. This war can be considered event one. The world is seeing what 'spin' is and what it can lead to and most in the West outside the US dont like it.

[redstar2000]

My opinion is that it will be quite a long while before there is a chance of communist revolution in the United States...perhaps the last decades of this century at the earliest.

The prospects are much brighter in Germany, France and Italy (just to name three); they could "go communist" as early as, say, 2030...and even take the rest of the EU with them.

In any case, the "classical" model of armed insurrection is probably obsolete. It arose, one must remember, when there was very little military difference between the trained soldier and the civilian with a rifle...it was once pretty close to an "even match."

That being no longer the case, I expect very little deadly violence in the course of a 21st century communist revolution...but rather an enormous upsurge of popular revulsion at "the old regime" that is far too wide-spread and determined to crush militarily. This would include general strikes and workplace occupations, massive and repeated street demonstrations, spontaneous public assemblies--"soviets"--and so forth.

It would still be revolution...not a matter of some political party calling itself socialist or communist, winning a national election and taking over in an orderly fashion. That option is just as obsolete, in my opinion, as armed insurrection.

But, as you must know, the future cannot really be predicted in useful detail and there may be many surprises ahead.

:cool:

[mentalbunny]

Well it looks like the totally peaceful route isn't going to happen, but there aren't enough people who would consider picking up a gun, for a violent revolution that englandsgay seems to be thinking of. It's more likely to come through strikes, etc, as redstar said, but as he also said, it's impossible to predict the future in any great detail.

[ELComandante]

I think nowadays it still is the same, You cant accomplish it in peace... yet. Once you have taken over the state, you must make sure that the country will stay communistic. By educating the children about the marxism, you can ensure it. So the future generations will have the "right"thoughts. But who am i, just a 16 years old student.

[Wolfie]

Well, as marx said, a revolution is required to smash the capitalist system and indead whole concept, if not it will fail like other reactionary incidents.

[Umoja]

You shouldn't force Marxism on kids in school, that's brainwashing. That's why I oppose violent revolution, because the creators will force the new system down the next generations throats, and they will not like that despite how good the system is. From an objective standpoint, we'd not be much better off forcing people to believe in Marxism.

I'd say, teach kids both economic systems as objectively as possible, and show the faults of each.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from englandsgay on 8:17 am on April 1, 2003
yea, but what I'm talking about is how you get an industrailized capitalist country to become a communist one. Because I'm pretty convinced that the culture would never permit one of these, like the US, to become truly communist.. the farthest it would go would to be capitalist with a thick socialist overlay like in Europe. Is it logically possible at all? someone out theres got to know what the up and budding communist theory is about that.. if there is one i mean.


It depends on the circumstances. Fascist regimes have arisen in developed countries, although to some extent as a last line of defence for the bourgeoisie. If the class struggle elevated itself significantly I am sure it could happen if the movement could gain support over a number of years.

[US Shockrule2000]

europe is full of socialist whimps.. our capitalist system supports their needs.. they're just a bunch of self-centrered, counter-revolutionary(yes.. even they barely tolerate you.. suckers.) fucks..

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

sr2000

[Anti communist]

There can't be a peaceful communist revolution because the citizens already in place know the lies of communism....all for one, one for all.....but they leave the part out about very little or no food as in N Korea, no freedom of speech, etc.

If a peaceful communist revolution is possible it would probably take at least 100 yrs of the comminist party making more and more gains each yr until finally the majority of the law makers are commies.

[Chiak47]

Anti,
Your asking too many questions,friend.The ones who keep a list for the day of cleansing will have some questions for you if you keep asking.
You can put all the facts and sources down here and they will still say its all fake.Ever wonder why ex-commies from the ussr that are here in this great land of ours have no desire to return to a commie/socialist/plain red state?They spit on the ideals.Thats proof enough for me.

I have a very good old family friend that was a Colonel in the Czech army back during to 70's and 80's.His family owned several apartment buildings in Praha(Prague) before the takeover.They lost them all.He was poor there.After the breakup he recieved the buildings back.He recently sold them and now is living good here in Chicago.

Thanks,
Eric

[hazard]

By definition there cannot be a peaceful revolution. As for peaceful change, yes that is possible. That is the goal of all socialist movements worldwide; to replace the capitalist mode of production through slow implementtaion of communist modes.

[Anonymous]

a peacefull socialist revolution cannot happen, this becuase the bourgeouse, or church, nobles, any ruling class, will after loosing theyr handwork and property fight back with all weapons they have...
being the worst and by far the most dangerous, the propaganda...

[Anti communist]

Chiak, have you been reading my posts? I'm another one of those who'll never go back. I came from Che's and Castro's "paradise" and will never return. God Bless America, The greatest country in the history of the world.

As Several of us have stated here in the past few days. How many are ridking their lives to go BACK to Cuba or back to Mexico.......none!!!!

[hazard]

anti

I hate to break this to you, brother, but no matter how hard you try to fit in with the so called free nation you've entered, you never will. the red necks will think of you as a commie no matter what. your employer will see you as a cheap source of exploitable labour, unless they give you a token promotion to appease us sensible types. people will laugh at the way you look, or talk, or dress, or at the car you drive or house you live in. by bathing yourself in the stench of americanda you only prove to these people that they are somehow right. please, brother, reconsider your position. america is not what you think it is. just look beneath its shiny surface and you'll find that the core is so rotten that you'll feel stupid for EVER thinking otherwise.

[Show me the Money]

a completely peacefull revolution is impossibel, imo-- those revolutions are just mere changes which can never be good for the cause, imo.

ShoMo.