how would you call that system???

[danyboy27]

a fully democratic system, with free market, and individual right, that devote a part of his economy to help the poor and the helpless, and that system could now and then conscript his own population in order to build badly needed infrastructure, that governement would pay them for their job of course, but at the end stuff like hospital and road would be build in a matter of months.

how would you call that system???

[EvigLidelse]

It's a combination of many systems, hard to tell.

[danyboy27]

how you find it?

[Bud Struggle]

a fully democratic system, with free market, and individual right, that devote a part of his economy to help the poor and the helpless, and that system could now and then conscript his own population in order to build badly needed infrastructure, that governement would pay them for their job of course, but at the end stuff like hospital and road would be build in a matter of months.

how would you call that system???

It sounds like something FDR did to get America out of the Depression.

[Killfacer]

Thats what we have now, but with a more active government.

[pusher robot]

I agree, that's basically the status quo.

[Jazzratt]

Impossible. The concept of a free market is specifically against government doing anything "to help the poor and the helpless". That misanthropia is its very basis.

[danyboy27]

I agree, that's basically the status quo.


is it good??

[Bud Struggle]

Impossible. The concept of a free market is specifically against government doing anything "to help the poor and the helpless". That misanthropia is its very basis.

You have been reading too many out of date books on Economics by way too hairy authors that have been dead over 100 years. :)

[Dean]

You have been reading too many out of date books on Economics by wat too hairy authors that have been dead over 100 years. :)

You've been watching too much CNN, Fox, CBS and NBC.

[Bud Struggle]

You've been watching too much CNN, Fox, CBS and NBC.

You have to admit my joke was pretty funny. :lol:

[danyboy27]

did rousvelt conscripted worker to build hospital and stuff??

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Impossible. The concept of a free market is specifically against government doing anything "to help the poor and the helpless". That misanthropia is its very basis.

Correction, the government doesn't do anything to help the poor. Better put, the government FORCES sucessful people to help the poor and the worthless. It punishes the successful and rewards the unsuccessful. And rewarded behavior is learnt behavior. That is why people are poor here. Its what you get when you feed the parasites and leeches of society.

Why not a system where people are free to choose whether they want to help the poor or not on an indiviual bases?

[Plagueround]

Correction, the government doesn't do anything to help the poor. Better put, the government FORCES sucessful people to help the poor and the worthless. It punishes the successful and rewards the unsuccessful. And rewarded behavior is learnt behavior. That is why people are poor here. Its what you get when you feed the parasites and leeches of society.

Funny, what class is it that's getting a record breaking bailout on taxpayer money to "fix" the market and keep it from crashing to the ground? Leeches and parasites indeed.


Why not a system where people are free to choose whether they want to help the poor or not on an indiviual bases?

Because history has demonstrated the poor would revolt and kill people like you. :laugh:

[Dean]

a fully democratic system, with free market
Paradoxical.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

What constitutes a "free market" in this envisioned system? A "free market" could be mutualist/socialist, or can be authoritarian (capitalist).

[Jazzratt]

A "free market" could be mutualist/socialist, or can be authoritarian (capitalist).

Only in the (highly specialised) vocabulary of mutualiststs. Most people understand "free market" to mean a market with no (or minimal) state interference. Most people also know it is utterly unworkable.


You have been reading too many out of date books on Economics by way too hairy authors that have been dead over 100 years. :)

Friedman died only recently and I don't think he was hairy, Rand died a little bit longer back (but not quite 100 years) and certainly wasn't hairy [nor did she, really, write any serious works]. These are the kind of people I get my opinions about the free market from; the people who are its proponents.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

a fully democratic system, with free market, and individual right, that devote a part of his economy to help the poor and the helpless, and that system could now and then conscript his own population in order to build badly needed infrastructure, that governement would pay them for their job of course, but at the end stuff like hospital and road would be build in a matter of months.

how would you call that system???

Contradictory. The level of government involvement you describe precludes a truly "free" market.

[danyboy27]

seriously i think this is what make democracy weak, is that for often bureaucratic and democratic complication avoid rapid neede change to happen.

I know its inhumane and shit, but i think that if we could have a dictator like in rome, lets say 3 month a year to shake thing up, it would rock.
BUT it would end up that someday some assole will do it hitler or stalin style and keep power to do bad stuff.

so has an alternative, i was thinking that perhaps giving to the governement some kind of building conscription power, in order to now and then make real schange in the society, change like hospital and road.

[EvigLidelse]

Okay, I'll try it then.

"Mixed economy democracy"?
Give me a better example :P

[#FF0000]

Correction, the government doesn't do anything to help the poor. Better put, the government FORCES sucessful people to help the poor and the worthless. It punishes the successful and rewards the unsuccessful. And rewarded behavior is learnt behavior. That is why people are poor here. Its what you get when you feed the parasites and leeches of society.


Wait a second. Are you suggesting that poor people are poor because they only know how to be poor?

Then are you, by extension, suggesting that it is possible for everyone on Earth, if they were to work hard enough, to earn however much one needs to earn to be at least middle class?

Are you crazy?

[danyboy27]

Wait a second. Are you suggesting that poor people are poor because they only know how to be poor?

Then are you, by extension, suggesting that it is possible for everyone on Earth, if they were to work hard enough, to earn however much one needs to earn to be at least middle class?

Are you crazy?
captain may been a little harsh in his way to explain his point of view.

i dont think he meant all the poor of the world, he was i think talking about the north american poor.
i am not really in agreement with his point, but i can understand his frustration somehow, i for myself seen a certain number of people who really hacked the welfare system here, and its fucking sick, people that are selling hash AND having welfare money, seriously, when you are overtaxed like in canada, when you look at those fool, you kinda feel revolted. Then again u supporet the existance of a welfare system, with tight regulation and a good reinsertion program.

[#FF0000]

captain may been a little harsh in his way to explain his point of view.

i dont think he meant all the poor of the world, he was i think talking about the north american poor.
i am not really in agreement with his point, but i can understand his frustration somehow, i for myself seen a certain number of people who really hacked the welfare system here, and its fucking sick, people that are selling hash AND having welfare money, seriously, when you are overtaxed like in canada, when you look at those fool, you kinda feel revolted. Then again u supporet the existance of a welfare system, with tight regulation and a good reinsertion program.

Welfare does not give you a terribly great amount of money. I know people who work two jobs at the least and receive welfare and still barely make ends meet for themselves and their family. In this situation, I would resort to selling drugs in a heartbeat.

[the questionist]

a fully democratic system, with free market, and individual right, that devote a part of his economy to help the poor and the helpless, and that system could now and then conscript his own population in order to build badly needed infrastructure, that governement would pay them for their job of course, but at the end stuff like hospital and road would be build in a matter of months.

how would you call that system???

Sounds like possibly a social democracy or Democratic Socialism.

Democratic system - Do you mean representative democracy or a more direct/participatory democracy?

Free Market- In this system the market would have to necessarily be mixed. Anything short of laissez fair disqualifies it as a free market however free market elements may be present to certain degrees.

Individual Rights- Only to a degree. Full individual rights seem to be only compatible with a laissez fair ( free market) system and no political democracy.

Helping the poor - Yes, but who foots the bill? Forced cooperation would do it. This comes into conflict with individual rights and free markets.

Conscript of population- Definitely in conflict with individual rights. Sounds a bit authoritarian.

This seems like Dem. Socialism or Extreme Social Democracy to me.