US election is a scam!

[RadioRaheem84]

After years of supporting de-regulation and his last economic advisor being the front man for the sub prime scam bill, McCain is recanting his once limited interventionist ways. WHAT A SCAM ARTIST! http://forum.protestwarrior.com/images/smilies/icon_hyper.gif

What pisses me off is that Obama is staying quiet about this! He is actually taking it up the rear and agreeing with McCain that this issue should remain non-partisan and we should work together as Americans to solve the crisis. HORSESHIT!

Obama should strike now. McCain was a big promoter of these de-regulation bills and a Wall Street favorite. He had to dump his prime economic advisor because of the meltdown!

I swear this election is nothing but a game. It's a fraud.

[counterblast]

After years of supporting de-regulation and his last economic advisor being the front man for the sub prime scam bill, McCain is recanting his once limited interventionist ways. WHAT A SCAM ARTIST! http://forum.protestwarrior.com/images/smilies/icon_hyper.gif

What pisses me off is that Obama is staying quiet about this! He is actually taking it up the rear and agreeing with McCain that this issue should remain non-partisan and we should work together as Americans to solve the crisis. HORSESHIT!

Obama should strike now. McCain was a big promoter of these de-regulation bills and a Wall Street favorite. He had to dump his prime economic advisor because of the meltdown!

I swear this election is nothing but a game. It's a fraud.

I agree that the election is just one big game...

But you could've made your point without using blatently homophobic/sexist references.

[spice756]

No from reading the conservative groups they blame economic problems on the left and government intervention not capitalism.This is why I hope they have no government intervention .Than we can prove to the conservative that capitalism does not work.Or they just going to play this game over and over.

So hope McCain or Obama have no government intervention than we can use that has proof.Why because no matter want the left does or try to have government intervention the conservative will blame the problem on the left and government intervention .Than capitalism.

I'm sick of this conservative game playing.

[RadioRaheem84]

to deny that their ideals caused this? It makes no sense. This is the same thing that happened before the great depression and these clowns are still fighting as if they did nothing wrong. They are either totally mad or totally stupid or both.

And again, what more proof do Americans need that a full blown de-regulated market is better? They cannot possibly really believe that we need MORE de-regulation.

And what government intervention are they talking about when it came to the crisis itself? The government stepped back and let the firms eat themselves. How could they pin this problem on government intervention?

[RadioRaheem84]

Some responses I recieved from some conservatives:


Homeownership is NOT an investment. A home is a liability. Most people can't pay cash so you are going to pay huge mortgage interest. Then homeowners insurance. The multitude of bills. Property taxes. And the neverending costs of maintaining a home. I assure you, there is always SOMETHING that needs to be done.

Lower income people would actually be better off renting during their entire lives. The cost of lifetime renting is far lower than the total cost to own of a home. Homeownership should be considered a luxury to be indulged in by those who are able and willing to bear the costs.


Government spending from 2002 to 2006 producing excessive deficits contributed significantly to the problem. That's the government component. De-regulation in 2000 with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act helped to lubricate the environment for the creation of an extremely large amount of derivatives with inflated values. And government constantly promoting home ownership as an American "right" is another contributing factor. Owning a home is not a right to everyone, it's a privilege afforded to those who can afford it.

I think that sums up my feeling on the government side of the problem.

UNBELIEVABLE! Apparently, its all the governments fault. Wall Street was just tempted by the government to over flood the market with junk. :laugh: These people just wont stop.

[Q]

US election is a scam!
Oh, the shock!

[( R )evolution]

All bourgeois controlled elections are frauds... Obama may seem as a better option then McCain but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because the bourgeois will still be in control. Workers around the world will still be oppressed and America will continue to be front runner for oppressive "democratic" regimes across the world. This election is completely useless just as all electoral processes in the world. I believe Karl Marx put it best

"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them."

[Wake Up]

In away I almost wan't McCain to win. Obama winning would restore many Americans faith in government and push back the chance of a revolution.

plus I am convinced that McCain would immediately shut down Guantanemo. I've never met a proper veteran that will go along with something like Guantanemo. Someone who's been through what McCain did tend to never talk about their experiences and oppose all measures that would make other go through the same thing.

[Psy]

In away I almost wan't McCain to win. Obama winning would restore many Americans faith in government and push back the chance of a revolution.

plus I am convinced that McCain would immediately shut down Guantanemo. I've never met a proper veteran that will go along with something like Guantanemo. Someone who's been through what McCain did tend to never talk about their experiences and oppose all measures that would make other go through the same thing.
Then you'd have the argument "If Obama won things would be better".

[RadioRaheem84]

As usual, the right wing media is blaming minorities, the government and bleeding heart leftists for this mess:

According to Mark Levin (a right wing radio shock jock) the real culprit is not Wall Street but the CRA, a bill that was passed back in the Carter Administration to "force" mortage companies to hand out loans to low income people, i.e. minorities. Their argument is that because the government intervened in the marketplace and commanded the mortage companies to hand out loans to low interest people that we're in this situation. The bill was pushed even further during the Clinton years when the Glass-Stegal act was introduced.

So there you have it folks. The real culprit in this sad tale is the lowly working class people of the barrios and the projects. Not the greedy bankers who lusted after junk bonds and rogue schemes! Not the Fed who artificially lowered interest rates! Not the de-regulators in D.C.! It was the poor people and the liberals in Washington.

Pathetic, I know. But what else can you expect from right wingers?

[Sendo]

You know it's a scam, too, because neither Gore nor Kerry gave a damn that the election was rigged. Tehy'd rather mumble about bush not playing fair than dare unleash a rebellion

[Comrade B]

In away I almost wan't McCain to win. Obama winning would restore many Americans faith in government and push back the chance of a revolution.
You overestimate the courage and ethical standards of Americans.
The only things they will ever fight are taxes and drafts.

[spice756]

In away I almost wan't McCain to win. Obama winning would restore many Americans faith in government and push back the chance of a revolution.

So vote and get McCain in and have more problems with the economy and more wars or get Obama in and less wars :( and a band aid to the problem and stall the downfall of the big recession coming.

Than when the recession comes blame it on Obama and the poor .Or have McCain in and have a free-market no government intervention and may be blame it on capitalism .

But one proplem you got to deal with here are those dreadful social views from the conservative.

[bcbm]

In away I almost wan't McCain to win. Obama winning would restore many Americans faith in government and push back the chance of a revolution.

Neither will mean shit if the workers aren't organized. And they aren't. So it is irrelevant who wins. The idea that making things worse will improve the situation is absolutely false and reactionary.


plus I am convinced that McCain would immediately shut down Guantanemo. I've never met a proper veteran that will go along with something like Guantanemo. Someone who's been through what McCain did tend to never talk about their experiences and oppose all measures that would make other go through the same thing.

You don't have a clue.

[GPDP]

You don't have a clue.

I second this. McCain completely reversed his views (or rather position) on torture. Why wouldn't he "flip-flop" on Gitmo?

The bourgeois, when it comes to attaining power, have no problem letting go of any internal principles they may have once held strongly. McCain is absolutely no exception.

[spice756]

The idea that making things worse will improve the situation is absolutely false and reactionary.



If the middle class gets f-ck and the American dream collapsing (and is happing now but will happen more later on ) you can sure say people will get mad at the capitalists or government.The only thing keeping US together now is the middle class :cursing: But every year there is less middle class.

Than we educate the people.Look get McCain in and a recession in 5 or 10 years or get Obama and a recession in 10 or 15 years.

The problem you got to live with those dreadful social views from the conservative that is some thing I'm having a hard time to gamble with.

[bcbm]

If the middle class gets f-ck and the American dream collapsing (and is happing now but will happen more later on ) you can sure say people will get mad at the capitalists or government.The only thing keeping US together now is the middle class http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/cursing.gif But every year there is less middle class.


The government has weathered far worse economic crises than this during times when class anger was much, much higher. Why would four more years of Republicans tip the balance now? In short- it wouldn't. Whatever candidate is elected we will see more or less the same economic changes and probably similar policy changes within the government. A or B is almost completely meaningless in the US anymore, especially on a national level.

[spice756]

The government has weathered far worse economic crises than this during times when class anger was much, much higher. Why would four more years of Republicans tip the balance now? In short- it wouldn't. Whatever candidate is elected we will see more or less the same economic changes and probably similar policy changes within the government. A or B is almost completely meaningless in the US anymore, especially on a national level.

The last time the US had a problem like this was the depression.Post ww2 was economic boom than the IT and housing boom to now , now IT and housing are collapsing.The US is going from a manufactoring to service economy

There is alot of offshoring and downzing now and big chain stores.The US is much more higher stage of capitalism now than before.The shop owners and small businesses are almost gone now.Every thing is big businesses and big chain stores like Wal-Mart, Target ,Home Depot ,Barnes ,Noble, Circuit Cit ,k-mart,zellers so on.All have a natural monopoly.The small shop owners/shopkeepers are are almost gone.And the same for small businesses are almost gone now.I would say in the next 10 to 15 yaers you going see more of this and more monopoly effect.

[RHIZOMES]

US election is a scam! Thank you Captain Obvious! Next up, gravity makes things fall, the sky is blue, 2+2=4 and we currently live on a planet named "Earth".

[Sendo]

the difference between then and now, fundamentally, is that we're already at war. In WW2 we won many imperialist gains, had a state-directed economy get jump started in a world of material and fuel abundance, and had an actual economy.

Now we're slogged down in disastrous imperial campaigns, a hollowed out govt, a hollowed out economy, and an extreme crisis. This will unfold more slowly than the Great Depression, but it will be worse; have no bones about it. An economy with too much consumerism and minor debt coupled with struggling wage workers and farmers is far better than an economy Kevin Philips warned us was fundamentally flawed with its "GDP" being composed so greatly of speculation, an economy that does nothing but service, no sustainable/family-based agriculture base (if factory farming becomes unprofitable, they close, and so does our food supply), oil running lower, etc etc etc.

It will be very bad. The state has gotten better at delaying this stuff, but this had been a long time in the making. Nothing can cover this debt. The USA will wither.

[Gleb]

Can't be so! Can't... My world, my precious world, it's falling apart!

[RadioRaheem84]

How long do you guys think we have? Anyways, I really believe that we will have an Argentinan like collapse, some chaos and then resort to being a nation similar to Chile. Still having a 'vibrant' economy but one where the middle class is small and meaningless. We will be able to afford some things but the ''trickle down system'' will really turn into a trickle-down -ystem where we will literally be scrounging for stuff, cheap stuff to get buy. Jobs will be scarce and won't pay jack.

[spice756]

How long do you guys think we have?


Does it matter? Every day is getting worse.May be it will not crash but slowing go down hill.