Why Socialism?

[Captain Morgan]

Okay, here we go.

I'm a social liberal of sorts. For most of you, I'm just a bourgeois reformist and I understand if you want to restrict me and throw to the deepest holes of the OI, where I can rot. But I ask you, don't do that.

I've been lately rather interested of socialist and communist ideology in general, I've been reading some books on subject, mainly Trotsky and stuff.*However, I'd appreciate if some of you could answer to these couple of basic questions. I'm not here to troll, I'm here to learn. I know some of you people, at least the ones I've been talking with outside the Cyberverse, can get a bit cranky when we cappies are questioning your view of the world, and instead of explaining, they just say that I'm a cappie idiot who doesn't know anything about anything. Yay? So, please be respectful, and use this opportunity to "educate the masses".

I'd appreciate if you explained in your own*words instead of posting some Marx/Trotsky/Bakunin/x quote or recommend some of their books. I know the major theorists of socialism without asking them in a internet forum and I actually know how to use a library, thank you.

So, here we go:

WHY Socialism? HOW is socialism superior to other political system, especially those advocating a market-based economy?
WHY is market-based economy flawed?

How does the dictatorship of the proletarian class work in practice?

And as we all (should) know, believing in complete, utter perfectness of one's own ideology is delusional. Most of us cappies don't do that, quite small bunch of us actually is some kind of Friedmanite worshippers of the Cult of Capital; so, what do YOU consider to be the major faults in the theory of socialism?

Great, great thanks in advance already, comrades :)

[trivas7]

Okay, here we go.

I'm a social liberal of sorts. For most of you, I'm just a bourgeois reformist and I understand if you want to restrict me and throw to the deepest holes of the OI, where I can rot. But I ask you, don't do that.

I've been lately rather interested of socialist and communist ideology in general, I've been reading some books on subject, mainly Trotsky and stuff.*However, I'd appreciate if some of you could answer to these couple of basic questions. I'm not here to troll, I'm here to learn. I know some of you people, at least the ones I've been talking with outside the Cyberverse, can get a bit cranky when we cappies are questioning your view of the world, and instead of explaining, they just say that I'm a cappie idiot who doesn't know anything about anything. Yay? So, please be respectful, and use this opportunity to "educate the masses".

I'd appreciate if you explained in your own*words instead of posting some Marx/Trotsky/Bakunin/x quote or recommend some of their books. I know the major theorists of socialism without asking them in a internet forum and I actually know how to use a library, thank you.

So, here we go:

WHY Socialism? HOW is socialism superior to other political system, especially those advocating a market-based economy?
WHY is market-based economy flawed?

How does the dictatorship of the proletarian class work in practice?

And as we all (should) know, believing in complete, utter perfectness of one's own ideology is delusional. Most of us cappies don't do that, quite small bunch of us actually is some kind of Friedmanite worshippers of the Cult of Capital; so, what do YOU consider to be the major faults in the theory of socialism?

Great, great thanks in advance already, comrades :)
Thanks for you frankness, Cap'n; let me try to reciprocate. If you know something re the theory of socialism you know that it is based on the social justice of workers owning the means of production and thereby owning the product of their labor. Is this what you're asking? If you know the theory of socialism you know that it's an historical analysis that demonstrates that capitalism is the theft of human labor for the monetary aggradizement of those who don't work for their money. Is this what you're asking? This in a nutshell is why capitalism is evil: it rewards greed and selfishness to the detriment of the common good. Is this not enough an endictment against it for you?

Or are you asking re the prospects of socialism? Well, frankly, it's a crapshoot because socialism has never existed and so there's nothing to compare what we have now. But what we have now is just isn't good enough for me and the millions of workers who are responsible for creating the wealth in this world. Do I KNOW it can work? No. But I can imagine what the world can look like, and it isn't anything like the disparity of wealth that now exists. And what are the prospects of capitalism? How long is it sustainable in its present form? If socialism is a pipedream capitalism is surely a road to more of the same: environmental degradation; social inequality on a massive scale, and the immiseration of whole populations. Why do two-thirds of the world's population have to live on $2 a day while a handful of people live beyond the wildest dreams of any king in history?

[Tower of Bebel]

We won't restrict you if you don't interfere with our discussions. Questions like yours are appreciated.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is based on "proletarian" democracy (as opposed to bourgeois "democracy"). Socialism must start with elevating the current production capacities of capitalism to capacities that would allow everyone to participate in political activity. Today's workers, when they come home from work, are not very much interested in politics and don't have sufficient spare time to be actively involved with political decision making. Communism, as the "ultimate" production relation, would make it possible for the population as a whole to rule society, and so it would make the population as a whole a state (actually this means having no state at all. but socialism still needs a state because it is a transitional stage from capitalism to communism).

The reason why this isn't possible today is because accumulation of capital for a few is far more important than well being for the whole of society. Capitalism isn't planned, so it will always be confronted with overproduction. Overproduction is not primarily caused by the fact that workers don't get paid for everything they produced. Overproduction is mainly caused by "anarchy" or chaos in capitalist production. When key-sectors of production suffer from overproduction it will cause capital to evade investments in production and push capitalist towards profits mainly made of financial transactions (like speculation). But since it does not solve the crisis, and since chaos in the financial sector also creates overproduction of (fake) capital, the financial markets will also suffer from crises. We are socialists and we want to control production, we want to be able to democratically decide what happens with the surplus(value) we produce. And communism is our solution.

Proletarian democracy, or the political aspect of communism and socialism, involves free education (which is possible if we free production form any restrictions), free press, permanent recallability, all leading positions are elected, planning of the key sectors of the economy, etc.
Free does not mean poor or insufficient. It must according to everyone's needs.

So the USSR was never communist. It was not a real dictatorship of the proletariat.