Modern Slavery

[hazard]

There is a curious notion that has been troubling myself for some time. That is the fact that I am forced to work, much like a slave, and this is somehow called freedom.

IS freedom really slavery?

Only when one understands capitalism as the system of exploitation that it actually is does this question carry any meaning. For only under capitalism is a person told they are "free" and yet forced to work for the vast majority of their lives. Foolish capitalist supporting morons. You change the name of something, alter a photgraph, say something didn't happen or say something did happen, and your're sold like slaves on the modern auction block.

Slavery was never abolished. It's name was simply changed. And hysterically the word slavery was changed into its EXACT oppositte. Freedom.

Freedom? Yeah, right.

[Ghost Writer]

What a bunch of garbage. Nobody is forcing you to work. You can live as a bum on the street, or you can make enough money to permanently retire. The choice is yours, and I would venture to guess that it is this very freedom that bothers you.

[hazard]

Ghost, time to put your hood back up and start burning crossess. <cough> <cough> FASCIST! <cough>

SO my choice is to become a bum or to work? What kind of a choice is that? That is, by definition, forcing someone to work. Sorta like you do what I say or you die.

Not only am I forced to work, you are too. You just don't realize it. And "ghost"? Come on. Do crossess and kerosene mean anything to you?

[synthesis]

Uh, dude, you wouldn't be able to sit on your ass and do nothing and be rewarded under socialism either.

[hazard]

dyermaker:

not my point

my point is that capitalism calls slavery: freedom

I would assume that communism would not be so vain to call labour, especially FORCED labour, freedom

anyway, the idea of working for reward, as you seem to mean your idea, is extrmely anti communist

you would work to support your fellow citizens and your society, unlike capitalism where you work because you are forced to only so that you can generate capital for the capitalist pigs that already have more than ninety nine percent of the worlds resources. these are the only slobs who sit on their assess and are rewarded for it.

[Ghost Writer]

Call me a fascist for not agreeing with you. That sounds more fascist to me.

Your a fucking idiot, if you think that you should be able to produce nothing, contribute nothing, and have food magically fall into your mouth. Listen to Dyermaker. Even he understands the necessity of work, but he thinks it should be forced. My system allows you the choice of actions, his doesn't. Tell me again which one is slavery. Dumb Fuck.

[Ghost Writer]

I didn't fully read your post before I responded the first time. You call me a KKK guy because I have the word ghost in my name. Jesus, you are a fucking moron! Since you do not know my history here I will tell you the origin of my latest name. I started here as Stormin Norman. Some idiot, much like yourself, started fucking with my work, because he didn't like my message. I went on the offensive, and got myself banned. I then returned as Old Friend, and got banned for attacking someone whose sex appeal convoluted the minds of those who operate this board. Then I was to return as Commie ***** Slapper, where I assume my name alone was reason enough for them to ban me. As you can see I am now a Ghost Writer, for my former manifestations on this site. I would prefer to have my old name, Stormin Norman, but I must settle for now. I never thought about my name as you did. Too me, that speaks more about your character than mine. Dip shit.

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 4:02 pm on Mar. 30, 2003)

[Politrickian]

A capitalist sells a product his worker created for 30 dollars on the market. The resources he needs for this product cost 20 dollars and to pay for the service of the machine that creates this product he pays 4 dollars. The worker needs a whole 8 hour work day to create this product and gets paid 3 dollars for this day. The capitalist gets the other 3 dollars. Seeing as how the worker needs 8 hours to create this machine he only gets paid for 4 hours and the other 4 hours he works for the capitalist for free, as a slave.

This situation(or a similiar one) has to exist in a capitalist society otherwise it wouldn't be profitable for the capitalist and it would make no sence for him to start a company.

That is the exploitation and slavery us leftists whine about.

(Edited by Politrickian at 4:37 pm on Mar. 30, 2003)


(Edited by Politrickian at 5:14 pm on Mar. 30, 2003)

[Pete]

Hazard: Ghostwriter is an old TV show, and also a type of pen that turns invisible after you write wtih it, until it is highlighted.

[Ghost Writer]

Politrician,

I fail to see your logic. Is the "wage-slave" being force to work that job by the whip, or the point of a gun? By attributing slave characteristics to the working class, you are uncutting the the oppression and brutality that the world's actual slaves have been subjected to. You are reducing the hardships of what it means to be a slave, and damaging the importance of the word slave. Much like comparing the meat indudtry to the holocaust, I find this comparison to be disgusting. You should rethink the definition of salavery, and the hardships that they have had to endure. Come on!

[Politrickian]

Well I don't agree with it being slavery as you describe it although in a way you are a slave if you work for free for someone, or a very nice fellow ;) Yes, slaves have had hard lives... At least slaves that didn't live in Roman/Greek society(I recommend you read about their treatment towards slaves, if you already haven't)

There isn't a gun pointed at their head, the simple reason they accept it is because there is little to no alternative and because they are born with the idea that they get paid for all the work they do. A blatant lie.

But lets let the definition slave go. The working class is exploited but not a slave, happy now. And, by the way, during the Industrial Revolution the working class wasn't treated so nicely by the bourgeois.

[Ghost Writer]

Fair enough.

[Ymir]

Slavery is voluntary, it does not require that you are threatened to STAY a slave, but to be afraid of liberating yourself. The proletariat could free themselves and smash the bourgeois system, but would they have a better life?

The slaves in America probably had many chances in their lives to escape from their farms and into the wild, but would it be worth it? The plantation may have been a harsh existence but it was stable and consistent. How could they leave shelter and food to face certain peril in an unknown wilderness? A gun or whip will not make the him enslaved.

[hazard]

Seems maybe I wasn't clear on a number of things.

My main point was that what is called freedom by the fascist capitalist slave supporting clans men is called slavery in every other country in the world, in any time. Its a lie to say that you are free because you can "choose" things. So what if I can choose Irish SPring or Zest or Lever 2000? Thats not freedom, thats bondage.

All that capitalism uses, all that capitalism CAN use to defend itself is equivocation between different meanings of the same word. Thats my big point.

Take ghostwriter as an example. He says his name means one thing. Just like Capitalists say freedom means one thing. However, under careful analysis, it can be determined that the meaning of these words don't actually coincide with one another. Like Capitalism and freedom. Like Ghostwriter and fascism.

Strict definition of the word slavery does not, admittedly, include the idea of wages. So, the blind fascist supporting brain dead coppertop thinks " I m not a slave because slaves don't get paid". Wrong. Slaves do get paid because their owners provide the essentials of living. Food. Clothing. Shelter.

Modern Slavery has owners providing a wage to the slaves. What for? Oh yeah, I almost forget. Food. Clothing. Shelter.

Freedom only means slavery in a capitalist regime

[Chiak47]

Hazard,

Force you too work?Google up gulags and that is what forced work is like.

If you dont want to work starve then be homeless.I'm all for it.Hell let me call your boss and get this rolling.

Looks like another one looking for a handout.

Thanks,
Sick and disgusted

[hazard]

chiak47

gulags are political reeducation centres for selfish, greedy, base level bottom feedersfor like you who strive on self centred, pointless, endless competition between any and everything

forced labour? don't tell me you, as a capitalist, plan on shifing the meaning of this word?

tell me where you got the idea that I don't want to work? What I don't want is to generate capital for a fat pig of a capitalist because I don't want to be homeless, because I don't want to starve.

and what are you thanking me for? you are sick, yes, disgusted, don't know, but stupid - definately.

you have a gripe with laziness. fair enough. but do me a favour and point your gripe at the pigs who are born into a social status that allows them never to have to work. the capitalists. these are the only lazy people anyone should be concerned with. but your're so smart you knew that already.

[Chiak47]

That is the fact that I am forced to work, much like a slave, and this is somehow called freedom.

Yep spoken like a bum..
Next farce please.

Gulags reeducation centers?For millions?WOW alot of people need to be reducated for years and years I guess.
Thanks but no thanks.

Thats why you reds sell your idea's to the mass population of drop out hand out suicidal drug addicts.
They are allways looking for those qualities in government.

[hazard]

I think that you should check your figures. Millions? Try and verify those numbers, chum. Of course, standard propaganda techniques have every figure multiplied by a factor of ten when dealing with an opponent and divided by ten when dealing with an ally. Duh.

get back to me on these figures

how many people, yearly, are forced into Capitalist reeducation centres? you know what Imean, don't you? and don't be so vain to pretend that capitalism doesn't also politically reeducate its people. they just lie about it, like everything else. at least us reds value more than money, more than material. at least we value something called the truth.

[Tkinter1]

Hazard,

You can choose to work, or you can choose to starve. That is freedom of choice.

You can choose to slack off and work a dead end job, or you can choose to work hard, think hard, and get a good job. That is freedom of choice.

Your sophomoric, lazy attitude will get you no closer to success.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 4:44 am on April 2, 2003)

[hazard]

tkinter

you are correct, that is freedom of choice

the problem is that under this banner, this little tid bit of propaganda, NONE OF THE WORDS ARE APPLICABLE

freedom is not freedom at all, it is slavery

choice is not choice at all, there is no choice between working and starving


and thus, we are back at the original point I am trying to establish, that in capitalism, freedom ONLY means slavery

at least admit that you understand that when you use these words that you use that they do not mean what they're supposed to, neither explictly or implicitly. at least do that for once. for me.

[Tkinter1]

"choice is not choice at all, there is no choice between working and starving"

Well, there is a choice, but I see what you're saying. However, there is a choice between working hard(and thinking hard), and living well, and working little and living poorly.

You have to realise that there are people out their that just want to get by, they are comfortable with that. They don't feel that they are enslaved. They like the way the live. Then they're are some people that don't like the way they live, and work to get themselves where they want to be.

You have the choice to get by, or get ahead.

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 5:10 am on April 2, 2003)

[hazard]

fair enough tkinter

only a fool would accept the idea that there is absolutely no choice at all under a capitalist regime. there certainly is an abundance of it. like which brand of toilet paper do I want to buy.

as for the premise that people are comfortable at just getting by, I charge that they are being opiated. by their tv and movies and beer and porno. unfortunately, these very same people who should be revolutionary are too well drugged that unplugging them could prove fatal.

I don't get what you are saying by "get by or ahead". one only gets ahead when their labour generates more capital for their bourgeois masters. its not drive as much as it is subserviance. the only people who get ahead are those who reject a system that rewards subserviance and puishes independent thought.

(Edited by hazard at 5:17 pm on April 2, 2003)

[Tkinter1]

"only a fool would accept the idea that there is absolutely no choice at all under a capitalist regime. there certainly is an abundance of it. like which brand of toilet paper do I want to buy."

Don't forget these
- what kind of life do I want to live.
- What kind of job do I want.
- What kind of money do I want to make.


"as for the premise that people are comfortable at just getting by, I charge that they are being opiated. by their tv and movies and beer and porno."

But you can't prove that can you... And why does this "opiate" only affect certain people? For gods sake what opiate are we talking about exactly? TV, beer, and porno is pretty vague.

"one only gets ahead when their labour generates more capital for their bourgeois masters."

Or perhaps, ones effort?

(Edited by Tkinter1 at 5:34 am on April 2, 2003)

[hazard]

tkinter:

yeah yeah yeah, they're all choices, fine. but since you bring vagueness in, I will now spin it back around upon you. these choices you present are similarly vague. and they are not exclusive to capitalism. but I will answer them for you as they apply to me.

1) one free of exploitation
2) one that does not make somebody else rich
3) I don't want to make money


I don't have to prove that(opiation argument), do I? Isn't it obvious that people are being opiated? Beer is an explicit form of opiation. It is literally the definition of the word. What is TV but something to do when not working? A form of escapism that presents a fantasy world to the viewer more exciting, more sexy, more entertaining than the real one. I need not say any more.

Your final response is inapplicable to the statement you which to attach it to.

Overall, you seem to be saying that choice, as some sort of universal, is an ideal that dictates and dominates an individual's life. That is BS. Especially in a cpaitalist regime. When one strips away all of the illusion, all of the rhetoric, all of the propaganda, very little hasn't already been decided for you under capitalist dogma. You must work in order to survive. The social conditions that limit your alternatives have been stagnant for centuries. If you don't know people, don't readily submit, don't approve of the mass exploitation that defines capitalism, well, according to you, thats just too bad. You infer that as long as the right choices are made all is well. However, once again, in making choices either right or wrong there is no choice. None at all.