Are bureaucracy and bureaucrats good or bad

[spice756]

Are bureaucracy and bureaucrats good or bad ? they are just in charge of the administration and are not works or Capitalists ?

Can they be Pro-workers or are they pro-Capitalists or none at all?

The bureaucracy is not the working class or the capitalists.They are just government officials or administrative people.

Do bourgeois allways have to be capitalists ?

[IcarusAngel]

They can be good I guess. I tend to think government bureaucracy is generally less worse than corporate bureaucracy, because with the government, they at least sometimes have people out as an interest, rather than corporate profits. American politicians are all pathetic, though. Of course, governments have also killed far more people than corporations have, but they've been around longer too. The economic system we have has certainly killed a lot of people.

Think of health care, education, etc., those can be bureaucracies that are needed. In a communist or socialist society, I think they would of course be completely different, but there is a chance they are needed. What about the UN? Another bureaucratic organization, but do people in America really want to come to understand international-relations? They really exist because of the "let someone else do it" mentality.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him. - Karl Marx


Can they be Pro-workers or are they pro-Capitalists or none at all?

Most are pro-capitalist, including those who identify as socialist. In the United States there is a vocal minority that likes to label Democrats socialists, but both sides of the aisle have corporations stuck in their pockets.

[RGacky3]

Bureacrats are sometimes people will good intentions, sometimes not, but eitherway they will act the same, because they have to work in a system that only allows them to work one day.

Which is why I really don't care for politics, it does'nt matter the politician, he has to play the game.

That being said, bureaucrats are at least somewhat succeptable to public pressure, so I would prefer bureacrats to have more power than corporations who are 100% succeptable to dollar pressure.

[spice756]

I think that is so true bureacrats don't really care if they are doing some thing right or wrong :(they just have a job in charge of some thing or running some thing like administration or government officials .

But I think the government bureacrats in the US are some how run and control by capitalists .The capitalists give the bureacrats alot of money.

So any administration or government officials may be good or bad just like free medicare or free education..

Some times the bureacrats in charge of medicare or free education want a nice pay check and the money does not go to the healthcare or education.

The capitalists goal is profit and that is controlling the market and the bureacrats does not sale or control the market;) They just want to stay in power and the more they stay in power the more money they get.

[Sprinkles]

Are bureaucracy and bureaucrats good or bad ? they are just in charge of the administration and are not works or Capitalists ?

Can they be Pro-workers or are they pro-Capitalists or none at all?

The bureaucracy is not the working class or the capitalists.They are just government officials or administrative people.

Do bourgeois allways have to be capitalists ?

Perhaps you should specify your question by stating what it is exactly you want to know where bureaucracy and bureaucrats are either good or bad for.

For example in terms of workers self-management a bureaucracy would be negative. Unfortunately for a specialized economy to exist a certain form of bureaucracy is unavoidable. A greater degree of accountability by making the bureaucrats recallable would go a long way in my opinion. The fact that bureaucrats do not constitute a specific class in their relation to the means of production (which is arguable in itself) does not mean they are a disinterested party in the affairs of the state.

On an individual basis you'll have some good and bad apples with different opinions and political beliefs, like everywhere else. A monetary incentive does not necessarily play a direct role in this.

[spice756]

Perhaps you should specify your question by stating what it is exactly you want to know where bureaucracy and bureaucrats are either good or bad for.


Anyone in charge of some thing or running some thing is a bureaucracy .The government, managers, and administration are all bureaucracy or bureaucrats they are in charge of some thing or running some thing .


They don't sale any thing or control the markets and are not capitalists .But are not workers because they are in charge of the some thing or running thing.And anyone in charge of some thing or running thing is called bureaucrats or bureaucracy .


Look you had the USSR bureaucracy ,US bureaucracy , free education or free healthcare bureaucracy and so on.And administration or managers in workplaces or government are bureaucracy .:(:(

But I guess they can be good some times and bad some times.And when they are bad we need to say why are they bad.But they are not workers .The workers are not in charge of some thing or running some thing .

It is too bad it is like that!!

[RGacky3]

One thing I love about the work bureaucracy is its vagueness in general conversation, and its the number 1 excuse Laninists give to the USSR turning into what it did, which is a BS excuse because it does'nt mean anything

[danyboy27]

bureaucrats are like the bones in a human body; the gender and race of the body dosnt matter to them, they have a job to do that need to be done, that it. if you got problem with your femur, it may be required to remove it, but at the end, if you wanna live you need the rest of the bones to be functionnal.

bureaucracy is needed in both socialist and capitalist governements.

[spice756]

My experience of managers and administration have been bad.They do not seem to sympathies with the workers .The like to look good or the power goes to them.

[spice756]

Dam reading this thread and other threads today in this group :(I'm getting conflicting stories on bureaucracy and bureaucrats are they good or bad.The other threads are very anti-bureaucracy and anti-bureaucrats .Here are some of the quotes.




size of the bureaucracy has grown since the emergence of capitalism




state bureaucracy




He simply was more of the same, and another chink in the bureacucratic state.




We cannot have illusions on the bureacracy




soviet-leadership collectively as "the bureacracy", regardless of the era



Ministers by which you mean the bureaucrats do not form a class of its own



ext persyn that uses "bureacracy" as a blanket term




Soviet Union was held to be a bureaucratic caste




and not to the bureaucrats pocket.



The relationship to production had been changed. A bureaucrat is not an owner, he is not a capitalist. He is what is called a "manager" in the capitalist mode of production.


Okay that should be enough.So reading the threads people think the bureaucracy and bureaucrats are bad but not really explaining why.And how we can fix that.

[danyboy27]

bureaucracy is necessary, but if you live in wonderland or somalia you wont see any bureaucrat.

[GPDP]

Pareconist theory gives a special place to the bureaucrat. It actually places them as a distinct professional-managerial class apart from the working class and capitalist class. They are known as the "coordinator class", which is composed of managers and people in professional fields of work with a monopoly on "empowering work", such as doctors and lawyers. It then goes on to claim that Marxism is, indeed, a coordinator class ideology, and the bureaucracy in the USSR was actually composed of these coordinators.

Now, I don't fully agree with this conclusion, but it really gets me wondering if indeed the class system is as fundamentally rooted purely in relation to the means of production as most socialists say it is.

[danyboy27]

the class system is fucked up anyway, drawing line between who the good and who the bad in function of his job and of the salary he have is fucked up.

[Dean]

So we only have one Technocrat so far?

[danyboy27]

So we only have one Technocrat so far?

i know what a technocrat, but who his he?