If capitalism is so bad, then what is up with China?

[kelvin90701]

More specifically what is up with Hong Kong and China? Hong Kong just keeps producing profit. What does a party member do with Hong Kong? Maybe it is time to brutally repress those evil capitalist in Hong Kong, how dare they produce so much profit.

[Mazdak]

Go away. No one wants to answer your dimwitted questions. You can find out anywhere. stop SPAMMING.

[kelvin90701]

Quote: from Mazdak on 8:34 pm on Mar. 28, 2003
Go away. No one wants to answer your dimwitted questions. You can find out anywhere. stop SPAMMING.

Does that mean you are going to ban me? I am asking the tough questions here that I am not allowed to ask in the Theory section.

[Just Joe]

Hong Kong is an autonomous area of China. it has a different political and economic system.

[Mazdak]

Quote: from kelvin90701 on 8:44 pm on Mar. 28, 2003

Quote: from Mazdak on 8:34 pm on Mar. 28, 2003
Go away. No one wants to answer your dimwitted questions. You can find out anywhere. stop SPAMMING.

Does that mean you are going to ban me? I am asking the tough questions here that I am not allowed to ask in the Theory section.


Yes, i am warning you just once. One more time and i will make sure to ban you.

[Anonymous]

Don't worry, Mazdak has no more power than you or I.

[kelvin90701]

Yes, i am warning you just once. One more time and i will make sure to ban you.



I am sorry, but come post your opinion of Lincoln Electric at These People Work Hard thread.

[kelvin90701]

Quote: from Just Joe on 8:44 pm on Mar. 28, 2003
Hong Kong is an autonomous area of China. it has a different political and economic system.


Thanks Joe, but who is changing who? Is Hong Kong going to become Communist and adopt a 5 year plan? Or is China going to become a free market? How does a faithful Party Member allow Hong Kong to continue with a different economic system? If your a faithful Communist, then Hong Kong has got it all wrong and needs to change. Mao must be turning over in his grave.

[synthesis]

What's with your fixation with Five Year Plans? I thought Stalin was the only guy who used them.


Mao must be turning over in his grave. I'm sure he is.

[kelvin90701]

Quote: from DyerMaker on 10:24 am on Mar. 30, 2003
What's with your fixation with Five Year Plans? I thought Stalin was the only guy who used them.


Mao must be turning over in his grave. I'm sure he is.

Sorry, I mix Stalinism and Maoism to make a point. You seem to got the point good enough. Come by and share your thoughts on Lincoln Electric at These People Work Hard thread anyhow.

[hazard]

More specifically what is up with Hong Kong and China? Hong Kong just keeps producing profit. What does a party member do with Hong Kong? Maybe it is time to brutally repress those evil capitalist in Hong Kong, how dare they produce so much profit.


is there a question here? I am unsure if "what is up" qualifies.

you seem to imply that china should "repress" hong kong so as not to seem like hypocrites. I agree. however, you must consider a number of factors.

the first is the treaty that allowed china rule of hong kong. what do you know about it? get up to date and THEN ask your feeble minded, propaganda driven hate mongering questions.

the second is world opinion. the only country allowed to repress not only foreign countries but also its own citizens is america. could you imagine the global outcry if china actually liberated the slaves of hong kong? I could.

finally, china knows what it is doing. keeping hong kong in bondage for the first two reasons alone are good enough, but keeping them in bondage for another, unknown and hidden purpose is probable. and this final reason has little to nothing to do with the generation of capital, or, as u call it, profit.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Actually the situation in Hong Kong is turning for the worse quite rapidly, people I know there are becoming deeply worried.

At the same time everyone here on the the mainland at least believes that they are doing a lot better than they used to, and most have some pretty high hopes for the future.

So the characterisation is out of date by about five years at least.

BTW, not only did Mao have five year plans, there are still five year plans issued here. Every five years or so ;)

--- G.
p.s. most of China is just open countryside full of peasants, and China has of course never been a Communist society, but that goes without saying

[kelvin90701]

Quote: from hazard on 10:44 am on Mar. 30, 2003
More specifically what is up with Hong Kong and China? Hong Kong just keeps producing profit. What does a party member do with Hong Kong? Maybe it is time to brutally repress those evil capitalist in Hong Kong, how dare they produce so much profit.


is there a question here? I am unsure if "what is up" qualifies.

you seem to imply that china should "repress" hong kong so as not to seem like hypocrites. I agree. however, you must consider a number of factors.

the first is the treaty that allowed china rule of hong kong. what do you know about it? get up to date and THEN ask your feeble minded, propaganda driven hate mongering questions.

the second is world opinion. the only country allowed to repress not only foreign countries but also its own citizens is america. could you imagine the global outcry if china actually liberated the slaves of hong kong? I could.

finally, china knows what it is doing. keeping hong kong in bondage for the first two reasons alone are good enough, but keeping them in bondage for another, unknown and hidden purpose is probable. and this final reason has little to nothing to do with the generation of capital, or, as u call it, profit.


You have quite skilly fully defeated my question about the relationship between China and Hong Kong. I can not argue with a secret plan for bondage.

So, who where is China going? Are they going to become more like Hong Kong? This is what someone said at a conference sponsered by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Trade:

"The secret of success of China's economic reform is to allow the non-state sectors to develop in the setting of a market economy."

http://www.oycf.org/Perspectives/7_083100/china.htm

I ask you the question too, do you think Mao is turning over in his grave?

[lifetrnal]

Exuse me for a second. First, to answer the question first possed, as I see it. China has fallen victim to what MAO was deathly affraid... the Communist party has been hijacked by Capitalist roaders. These people that are now in power care very little about the people, what they care about is personal power and furthering THEIR own wealth... thus they institute, "Capitalist" reforms which will maximize THEIR wealth, and continue to grip tightly to the reigns of power.
As for the insinuation that Stalinism and Maoism are AT ALL similar. Thats a very uneducated view point. They are nothing alike... I don't really want to get into it.. but perhaps you should pick up a political theory reader.

BTW.. I am NOT a Maoist.. just needed to make that clear

[kelvin90701]

The corrpution you point out is true, but the Capitalist did not introduce it to China. The Communist in China were able to invent corruption on thier own without any help from the west.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Corruption has always been endemic in China, for complicated socio-political reasons. Basically the "guangxi" system means that using bribes and undue influence and leverage are accepted business practices (this can be traced going back to Imperial times, but I digress).

In any case, just looking out the window I have no doubt that Hong Kong took over China in '97, and not the other way around. There are new swanky apartmendbuildings rising everywhere, they've opened about a dozen new Subways and ten new Dominos in the past year.

I saw an add for a swanky new apartmentbuilding the other day, calling itself the "Aristocracy's Playground" or something to that effect. People have truly begun to worship money.

The only thing left now is "Capitalist Bourgeouis Mansions"

;)

--- G.

[kelvin90701]

Cool. How about Baywatch? Do they get Baywatch? I am of the firm belief that MTV and Baywatch has done more than anyone or anything to spread free markets around the world.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Unfortunately we do get Baywatch, both the Hawaii and original versions. I wish we didn't ;)

--- G.

[kelvin90701]

Do you think that the Maoist in the Forbiden City watch Baywatch?

[hazard]

Its all exagerations. Try exercising some damage control for a minute or two.

China is simply allowing some very minor, some very TOKEN capitalist influence into their country. That is all. If you ask me, these so called influences are about as real as a two dollar american bill. There is no need to panic. Communism is still reigning true in the chinese paradise.

[kelvin90701]

The paradise is suffering from hunger:

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/books/brown.htm

In another thread I argue that communism can never achive or beat a free market system in production in any industry. Pro-communist arguments cite measurement of production is unimportant, but rather the overall benefit to society as a whole is important. The human toll on to achieve explosive production is too much. There are other measures, such as free time to persue other interestes, to measure quality of life. I argue that a free market system is the only way to grow enough food to feed the world. If you don't have enough food to eat, then what good is it to have "spare time" for a better quality of life.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Quote: from kelvin90701 on 11:16 am on April 3, 2003
Do you think that the Maoist in the Forbiden City watch Baywatch?


LOL, wtf are you talking about? The Forbidden City is a tourist attraction, the only people that go there apart from the tourists are selling Kodak disposable cameras, little stuffed panda dolls and overpriced soda. Same thing on the Great Wall, concession stalls everywhere (yes, ON the wall).

I assume you were referring to the Zhongnanhai compound, where the leaders live (not far from here actually), and I'm sure they get all the satellite channels there.


Hazard: I'm afraid you are very badly mistaken.

Kelvin: what does that have to do with politics? It's pure demographics/economics, not much can be done about it. And in any case, China is capitalist today.

--- G.