Serious questions for supporters of communism

[JohnMcCain2008]

Why were the living standards in West Germany much higher than in their communist counterpart, where people had to wait in line all day for a piece of bread ? Why are the living standards a million times higher in South Korea than in North Korea ? Why did way more people flee East Germany than the other way around ? Why do way more North Koreans flee to the South, rather than the other way around ? Communism has proved throughout its history that it is a diseased system.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I'm sorry, of your examples, none were communist. Perhaps next time you should draw on a different source of information. Fox News and CNN aren't doing you any good. :laugh:

[Ken]

because real communism has never existed, right?

and its never been tried, right? wait!

[Schrödinger's Cat]

because real communism has never existed, right?


It has existed in limited forms, but nice attempt at trying to catch an answer beforehand. The EZLN and parts of Spanish Catalonia are two examples. The growing gift economy in the form of freeware and p2p is another.

[JohnMcCain2008]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !

[Bright Banana Beard]

because real communism has never existed, right?

and its never been tried, right? wait!

Addition to GeneCosta, the only far thing we made is short-lived socialist country before Khrushchev/ Deng turn it around. However, there is many more birth far outright death. The condition is very high compared to decades ago and even today. Communism did exist, as some Native American and Native African had done it before they fucked.

[reddevil]

Why were the living standards in West Germany much higher than in their communist counterpart, where people had to wait in line all day for a piece of bread ? Why are the living standards a million times higher in South Korea than in North Korea ? Why did way more people flee East Germany than the other way around ? Why do way more North Koreans flee to the South, rather than the other way around ? Communism has proved throughout its history that it is a diseased system.
simple. none of these countries were/are communist. in fact if you knew anything whatsoever about communism, you'd know it's impossible for any vountry to be "communist" because communism implies the abolition of the state. what's wrong? isn't the flawless american education system serving you well?

[Bud Struggle]

what's wrong? isn't the flawless american education system serving you well?

Well, you can't only blame the American educational system. You have to blame the East Germans and the North Koreans and the Soviet Union and the Chinese. Those countries actually think (thought) that they were Communist, too. :lol:

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !

Not even mainstream Americans believe that. You're obviously a troll.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Well, you can't only blame the American educational system. You have to blame the East Germans and the North Koreans and the Soviet Union and the Chinese. Those countries actually think (thought) that they were Communist, too. :lol:

No. Not one leader or politician from those respected countries called their models "communist." Some said it was socialist, but they implicitly stated that communism was a future goal.

[shorelinetrance]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !
And I'm the ghost of karl marx.

[Comrade B]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !
You know that isn't true. The fact that you say it is reason enough to know that you don't really believe it.

[Raúl Duke]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !

I prefer BBC then either (and especially more so then FOX)....

Although the people of the british isles might disagree.

[Killfacer]

well his short stay on this site seems to have ended.

[Socialist18]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !Yeah, and brainwashing and capitalist propaganda is good for ya too!

[Le Libérer]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !Sure they are. They do things like report W. really won the election, and theres WMD in Iraq.

[Bud Struggle]

Sure they are. They do things like report W. really won the election, and theres WMD in Iraq.

Well there's always the Daily Worker (now the People's Weekly World) as a great place to get your news from.

http://www.pww.org/

:lol:

[Edit] Even though I jest a bit about the paper, if you go to the NY Public Library and look over the old editions ftom the 20s to the 50s--the Daily Wroker was a FORMABADABLE intellectual newspaper in a lot of respects. A lot of it was stalinist party line--but good sections, especially the letters to the editor were quite brilliant.

[GPDP]

FORMABADABLE

Thanks for rousing my brain from its sleepiness, making me decipher what this meant.

[Robespierre2.0]

Why is it that capitalist nations always have employment problems and under socialism, there is no unemployment?
Why is militarism, sexism, and soulless consumerism so prevalent in Amerikkkan culture?
Why do Amerikkkan living standards depend almost entirely upon the suffering of third-world children working in sweatshops?
Why is it that Amerikkka has consistently financed tin-pot fascist dictators when other countries adopt a system of government they don't like?
Why is it that in Amerikkka, girls have to throw up or starve themselves in order to live up to a non-existant 'standard of beauty' the capitalist media bombards them with?

Admit it. You have a miserable, degrading job, probably in the retail or service industries working for someone else's profit, just like most people in this country, and you can tell that there's something wrong going on, but instead of placing the blame where it belongs like us, you use convenient scapegoats- immigrants, terrorists, the other capitalist party.

Socialist countries might not have flashy consumer goods like Amerikkka, but everyone had a job, access to education and universal health care, and usually pride in their work, because it is for the benefit of themselves and the rest of society instead of the opulent parasites that run Fortune 500 companies and infest congress.

These things- necessities of a fulfilling life, which are usually only enjoyed by the rich in bourgeois society, will be available to working people, and that's far more important than any brand name products or 'Free Speech' bullshit.

Also, despite what others may say, the countries you described WERE socialist, although some adhered more closely to Marxist principles than others.
Nevertheless, I'd take life in the GDR over life here any day of the week.

[Dr Mindbender]

Why were the living standards in West Germany much higher than in their communist counterpart, where people had to wait in line all day for a piece of bread ?
If you ignore the ideological fallacy of your point for a moment, it was in no small part thanks to the fact that the soviet union was hit far worse by the effects of world war 2. America and the UK only lost 6 million men between them while the soviets lost 27 million men and most of it's western land devastated by the nazi onslaught.

Add that to the fact that america and the UK had already managed to carve itself significant allies and satellites of influence pre-war, it is little wonder the eastern bloc was at a significant economic disadvantage.



Why are the living standards a million times higher in South Korea than in North Korea ?
Because North Korea does not practice communism, it practices Juche which more closely resembles state capitalism and has highly reactionary nationalist tennents such as rigidly enforced border controls and centralisation of power that are entirely contradictory to marxism. If you go to North Korea, they do not idolise marx or lenin, they worship the 'great leader'.



Why did way more people flee East Germany than the other way around ?
For the material reasons i have listed and for the ideological reasons that other revleft members have also listed.



Why do way more North Koreans flee to the South, rather than the other way around ? Communism has proved throughout its history that it is a diseased system.

Capitalism has and continues to prove itself every day that it is no good to the developing world.

http://www.fightpoverty.mmbrico.com/facts/poverty.jpg

http://www.borgenproject.org/sitebuilder/images/Africa_poverty-223x270.png

[Bud Struggle]

If you ignore the ideological fallacy of your point for a moment, it was in no small part thanks to the fact that the soviet union was hit far worse by the effects of world war 2. America and the UK only lost 6 million men between them while the soviets lost 27 million men and most of it's western land devastated by the nazi onslaught. Then 50 years later what was their excuse. Sorry--they failed. Litterally failed.


Add that to the fact that america and the UK had already managed to carve itself significant allies and satellites of influence pre-war, it is little wonder the eastern bloc was at a significant economic disadvantage. So you are saying that the Capitalist were brighter and more effecient than the Communiusts?



Because North Korea does not practice communism, it practices Juche which more closely resembles state capitalism and has highly reactionary nationalist tennents such as rigidly enforced border controls and centralisation of power that are entirely contradictory to marxism. If you go to North Korea, they do not idolise marx or lenin, they worship the 'great leader'. North Korea is what Communism LOOKS LIKE in the real world. Or would you prefer Fidelism better? Or maybe Stalinism? How 'bout that guy from Albania?


That's Communism. Indeed.


Capitalism has and continues to prove itself every day that it is no good to the developing world.

http://www.fightpoverty.mmbrico.com/facts/poverty.jpg

http://www.borgenproject.org/sitebuilder/images/Africa_poverty-223x270.png

Greedy asshole leaders--Communism and Capitalism created them equally. Sudan/Darfur isn't created by the Chinese?

[Comrade B]

China is a pure capitalist country

[Bud Struggle]

China is a pure capitalist country

Of late. But the Maoists have had their day--gimmie some Communism that worked. Or some Socialism... Or even a couple of guys shairing some shusi that aren't gay!

The Revolution is history.

Let's build a new world.

[Frost]

TERRORISTS YOUR GAME IS THROUGH... NOW YOU'LL HAVE TO ANSWER TO AMERICA! **** YEAH!

That was one of the crappiest arguments against Communism, yet is heard all the time. I'd answer the OP but it's been done already. I really just wanted to throw in the Team America reference.

Can I ask you, McCain supporter, how are McCain's capitalist policies going to save America from economic ruin?

[Dr Mindbender]

Then 50 years later what was their excuse. Sorry--they failed. Litterally failed.
I mean because of the ensuing material conditions 30-40 years they were still playing catch up. Meanwhile the capitalist nations were enjoying their elitist boys club from which they could boycott the warsaw pact and it's less prominent sphere of influence.


So you are saying that the Capitalist were brighter and more effecient than the Communiusts?
no they were more aggressive and pursued their foreign policies more violently. The british empire in india, being a prime example.

Secondly for the most part the capitalist nations had generations and far more opportunity to pursue their international hegemony. The soviet union had barely existed a few decades at the onset of WW2 and since then had been beseiged by local and foreign counter revolutionary aggression.



North Korea is what Communism LOOKS LIKE in the real world. Or would you prefer Fidelism better? Or maybe Stalinism? How 'bout that guy from Albania?

How about trotskyism for size?



Greedy asshole leaders--Communism and Capitalism created them equally. Sudan/Darfur isn't created by the Chinese?

I'm pretty sure sudan/darfur was poor even before the chinese got there. Nope sorry, that happened on capitalism's watch.

[Comrade B]

I am pretty sure the US actually created more evil greedy leaders than the soviet union ever did. The US also killed/ removed the leaders who were not greedy and decided to start socializing things. Notice that I am also excluding all the other capitalist countries that fucked up the world

[Coffee Mug]

Not even mainstream Americans believe that. You're obviously a troll.

Yeah, only CNN is truly unbiased :D

[Zurdito]

some of the responses to this thread were pretty disappointing. in real life communists have to expect to face these questions, they are reasonable questions, and you won´t get anywhere unless you can answer them. most workers in the world´s opinion of communism is ruined by what Stalinism did, and we have to accept it as part of our mvoements hsitory, because it is, these regimes came to pwoer based on class struggle and anti-imperialist movements.

my answer is that when an isolated and weak country attempts on its own to defy the strongest capitalist nations of the world, then it will be placed under economic seige and not granted access to the advanced means of production which those states monopolise. in such a situation of isolation, in the examples given in the OP, either a bureaucratic caste committed to co-existence and negotiation with imperialism came to power (Soviet Union), or simply had the leadership of the movement upon taking power (N. Korea).

These regimes have an interest in using the revolutionary movements below them and the imperialist pressures from above as the two tools to give them a permanent status as the bureaucrats who on the one hand filter the mass opposition to imperialism at home and rest on it as defenders of the revolutiona gainst the imperialist opposition, and other hand keep their societies in order and prevent the establishment of democratic control by the masses which would be highly dangerous for capitalism as a whole and lead to the spreading of the revolution rather than its isolation. so on the other hand, the bureaucracy works as the vassal for imperialism into their own society, and ensures a certain level of exploitation from abroad of the economy which could otherwise be used for bettering the lives of the masses and building the democratic revolutionary mvoement across borders. of course their return for this role they play for imeprialism is their own bureaucratic priveliges as watchdogs.

stalinist leaders are a lot like trade union leaders, basically. they rest on a gain made and institution set up by the working class and its struggle, but are there to impede, police and ultimately defeat it - as shown byt he fact that rpactically every stalinist brueaucracy restored captialism (Cuba we can take as proven in its bourgeois intentions even if it is not completed yet)

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Why is it that capitalist nations always have employment problems and under socialism, there is no unemployment?
Why is militarism, sexism, and soulless consumerism so prevalent in Amerikkkan culture?
Why do Amerikkkan living standards depend almost entirely upon the suffering of third-world children working in sweatshops?
Why is it that Amerikkka has consistently financed tin-pot fascist dictators when other countries adopt a system of government they don't like?
Why is it that in Amerikkka, girls have to throw up or starve themselves in order to live up to a non-existant 'standard of beauty' the capitalist media bombards them with?

Admit it. You have a miserable, degrading job, probably in the retail or service industries working for someone else's profit, just like most people in this country, and you can tell that there's something wrong going on, but instead of placing the blame where it belongs like us, you use convenient scapegoats- immigrants, terrorists, the other capitalist party.

Socialist countries might not have flashy consumer goods like Amerikkka, but everyone had a job, access to education and universal health care, and usually pride in their work, because it is for the benefit of themselves and the rest of society instead of the opulent parasites that run Fortune 500 companies and infest congress.

These things- necessities of a fulfilling life, which are usually only enjoyed by the rich in bourgeois society, will be available to working people, and that's far more important than any brand name products or 'Free Speech' bullshit.

Also, despite what others may say, the countries you described WERE socialist, although some adhered more closely to Marxist principles than others.
Nevertheless, I'd take life in the GDR over life here any day of the week.

There are plenty of jobs in the help wanted section on the Newspaper. (dont even get me started with all the wasteful governmetn ran employment agencies) For the person who is to lazy to get of his ass to go out and get one well thats his/her fault and not the fault of the capitalist.

Do you have any idea what this kids, who live in third world countries, be doing if they weren't working in sweat shops? They probably be spending their day chasing rats to have something to eat or out toiling in a fields digging though the dirt for some food.

Actually, most American girls are fat and nasty thanks to the capitalist who are selling fat pills (hamburgers) for a dollar. I will welcome skinny girls. No one likes to say it but slim, skinny girls look good. Not skeleton skinny of course.

[Plagueround]

There are plenty of jobs in the help wanted section on the Newspaper. (dont even get me started with all the wasteful governmetn ran employment agencies) For the person who is to lazy to get of his ass to go out and get one well thats his/her fault and not the fault of the capitalist.

Unemployment and underemployment are not sheerly a result of laziness. I have to ask, are you in any sort of a career yet? Ever try competing for jobs above entry level that one can actual live on? There are not enough jobs paying a living wage and the ones that don't are often "saturated" with overskilled laborers who can't find anything else, making the idea of social mobility that capitalist promote a stagnant farce.


Do you have any idea what this kids, who live in third world countries, be doing if they weren't working in sweat shops? They probably be spending their day chasing rats to have something to eat or out toiling in a fields digging though the dirt for some food.

Many "third world" countries had their previous agricultural means of survival destroyed in one way or another by the greed of others. The sweatshop moves in to exploit this. Even if it was the only option, how does that justify keeping them in poverty and exposing them to dangerous environments and long working hours?



Actually, most American girls are fat and nasty thanks to the capitalist who are selling fat pills (hamburgers) for a dollar. I will welcome skinny girls. No one likes to say it but slim, skinny girls look good. Not skeleton skinny of course.

I'm sure the goal of women is solely to impress you.

[Black Dagger]

CaptainCapitalist68, i've deleted your one line post. Please do not post one-liners just to troll communism. If you wanna do that keep it confined to your actual responses.

[Bilan]

because real communism has never existed, right?

and its never been tried, right? wait!

Don't wait! Pull your head out of your ass and read a book now! No time to lose!

But if you think its been tried, please, provide evidence, and I - and plenty of others - will be happy to tear you to pieces for being a complete dolt. :)

[Bud Struggle]

Don't wait! Pull your head out of your ass and read a book now! No time to lose!

But if you think its been tried, please, provide evidence, and I - and plenty of others - will be happy to tear you to pieces for being a complete dolt. :)

Oh come on. It's been tried lots of times. By real first class well meaning Marxists. And each and every time it morphs into the SU or China or some of those other well meaning but flawed Marxist countries. They are "trying" Marxism in Nepal right now. How do you think that's going to turn out?

The problem is that Marxism looks good on paper, but when ACTUALLY put into practive in REAL LIFE it turns into the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact friends.

Now I know the argument--it has to be done through out the entire world for it to work correctly. And maybe, but maybe if it is tried in the entire world the entire would will become the Soviet Union reborn.

I guess we'll never know.

[Killfacer]

I am pretty sure the US actually created more evil greedy leaders than the soviet union ever did. The US also killed/ removed the leaders who were not greedy and decided to start socializing things. Notice that I am also excluding all the other capitalist countries that fucked up the world


That might have something to do with the whole soviet union being a dictatorship thing, most dictatorships have very few leaders.

[GPDP]

The problem is that Marxism looks good on paper, but when ACTUALLY put into practive in REAL LIFE it turns into the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact friends.

You know, a professor of mine actually said something recently that I found very enlightening. The phrase "it looks good in theory but bad in practice" is a completely shittastic work of idiocy. If the theory is good and sound, then it should give you good and sound results in practice!

See where I'm going with this? :D

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Not to much it has worked successfully outside of the Soviet Union. Capitalists just have a very selective thought process. Just like when they argue Marxism "looks good on paper, but doesn't work" and then turn around and vehemently defend the market god.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Unemployment and underemployment are not sheerly a result of laziness. I have to ask, are you in any sort of a career yet? Ever try competing for jobs above entry level that one can actual live on? There are not enough jobs paying a living wage and the ones that don't are often "saturated" with overskilled laborers who can't find anything else, making the idea of social mobility that capitalist promote a stagnant farce.

Wrong

Even a person who doesn't speak any English, has no high school education (50% of illegals don't have a high school education) can come here from another country, get a job and still make enough to support his or her family. Millions of illegals have and many of them are doing good. This totally proves you wrong. Sorry there is no freaking excuse. My proof is in the millions of illegals who have done this and they make enough to make a living otherwise they would be freakign dead.

Even the poor in this country have computers, cell phones, a TV, a DVD player their own cars and many of them are all fat so there is enough for them to survive.

No this people are lazy. Why don't they get at least a 6.50 dollar an hour job? WHy don't they at least sell oranges in the street corner? Why don't they stand in the corner of a hardware store and offer their labor to the public? No fuckign excuse, they need to put down the beer, put down the cock, put down the weed or whatever the hell they are on and get off their ass and find a fucking job. Its that fuckgin simple.

Why did they make a family in the first place if they don't even have a means to support them?

No the fault is there own.

No I don't have a career, I rack in about 10,000 - 25,000 a year. I just don't believe other people should be forced to help me or to give to me.



Many "third world" countries had their previous agricultural means of survival destroyed in one way or another by the greed of others. The sweatshop moves in to exploit this. Even if it was the only option, how does that justify keeping them in poverty and exposing them to dangerous environments and long working hours?

I'm sure the goal of women is solely to impress you.

I am not surprise you're blaming all the poverty int he world on the American Capitalist. How was the world before capitalism even came to exist?

So a person working long hours in this supposed dangerous conditions is not justifiable when the other option is death and starvation?

[bcbm]

Do you have any idea what this kids, who live in third world countries, be doing if they weren't working in sweat shops? They probably be spending their day chasing rats to have something to eat or out toiling in a fields digging though the dirt for some food.

Yeah, before the west invented sweatshops, all third world countries were full of kids rolling around in the dirt and chasing rats.


No this people are lazy. Why don't they get at least a 6.50 dollar an hour job? WHy don't they at least sell oranges in the street corner? Why don't they stand in the corner of a hardware store and offer their labor to the public? No fuckign excuse, they need to put down the beer, put down the cock, put down the weed and get off their ass and find a fucking job. Its that fuckgin simple.

Yeah, you've done it I'm sure. Given that most of the major sociologists (http://web.syr.edu/%7Ecszillma/wilson.html) in the US completely disagree with you...

[Bud Struggle]

Yeah, you've done it I'm sure. Given that most of the major sociologists (http://web.syr.edu/%7Ecszillma/wilson.html) in the US completely disagree with you...

Actually, this one at the bottom of the article agrees with the Captain:

In his review, John J. DiIulio's states that although Wilson does an adequate job at assessing life in the inner-city and sensitizing American to the true struggles of these areas' residents, DiIulio believes that Wilson is way off mark with his "attack poverty first" method. DiIulio believes the reserve of what Wilson says is true; he writes that it is the decline of decency in ghettos that causes joblessness, not the other way around as Wilson suggests. Living in a suburb ten miles west of Chicago that is 85% African-American, that leads the Chicago area in homicides each year, and is often referred to as a "ghetto" (although its levels of poverty do not qualify it as such), I have a personal persepective on what Wilson writes about in this book. Observing the lives of poor blacks everyday has made me aware of how severe the problems facing these people are. However, while their plights are not completely of their own making, I believe that one of the characteristic of being an American is overcoming adversities and obstacles. Some government aid is necessary especially in the education realm where inner-city children are at major disadvantages, but poor African-Americans must be willing to take some personal responsiblity for the progression of their race and economic states. The joblessness that exists in their neighborhoods doesn't give them a free pass to receive aid without working. While I second DiIulio's acceptance of Wilson's assessment of the ghettos and his proposed solutions, the government can only do so much. The responsibility of carrying out these suggestions lies in the hands of the residents; they must take it upon themselves to reverse the recent downward trends and better their lives.

:)

[apathy maybe]

Threads like these are the main reason this forum exists. So that rejects don't pollute the rest of the board with this shit. (The fact that rejects can still pollute the rest of the board under the guise of "communism" doesn't mean shit. At least we don't have to put up with bullshit capitalists who's arguments aren't new and have been addressed probably hundreds of times before.)

See CaptainCapitalist68 (incidentally, what's the number mean?), you aren't being original, your arguments aren't new. I, at least, have seen them all before. And you know what? They are boring.

The fact is, the USSR wasn't paradise, North Korea is a shit hole, and who would want to live in China? (Cuba is still a better place then most of the "capitalist" countries around it though.) But the USSR was never "communist", they never claimed to be providing a communist system, merely (at most) the first stage on the road to the future perfect society.

Oh, and did I hear mention that China is capitalist? Has been for years. Heck, they even joined the WTO!

Anyway, no matter the flaws with the various "socialist" countries (and I for one reject the claim that the USSR was socialist, at least after the first few years), capitalism is shit too!

Oh heck, I was going to compile a long list of leaders and coups and civil wars in the name of capitalism, but considering there is a thread called "Imperialism's Charge Sheet" (http://www.revleft.com/vb/imperialism-39-s-t62702/index.html) that does that, I won't bother repeating it.

Basically, capitalism is a really shit system.

And I, for one, desire something better, a better world. And I'm willing to fight for it.

My better world doesn't include starving children (which obviously your perfect system promotes and supports), nor does it support any rulers.

[Bud Struggle]

And I, for one, desire something better, a better world. And I'm willing to fight for it.

My better world doesn't include starving children

I'm with you there. :thumbup1: Lot's of other stuff we can disagree on--but not there.

[bcbm]

Actually, this one at the bottom of the article agrees with the Captain:

In his review, John J. DiIulio's states that although Wilson does an adequate job at assessing life in the inner-city and sensitizing American to the true struggles of these areas' residents, DiIulio believes that Wilson is way off mark with his "attack poverty first" method. DiIulio believes the reserve of what Wilson says is true; he writes that it is the decline of decency in ghettos that causes joblessness, not the other way around as Wilson suggests. Living in a suburb ten miles west of Chicago that is 85% African-American, that leads the Chicago area in homicides each year, and is often referred to as a "ghetto" (although its levels of poverty do not qualify it as such), I have a personal persepective on what Wilson writes about in this book. Observing the lives of poor blacks everyday has made me aware of how severe the problems facing these people are. However, while their plights are not completely of their own making, I believe that one of the characteristic of being an American is overcoming adversities and obstacles. Some government aid is necessary especially in the education realm where inner-city children are at major disadvantages, but poor African-Americans must be willing to take some personal responsiblity for the progression of their race and economic states. The joblessness that exists in their neighborhoods doesn't give them a free pass to receive aid without working. While I second DiIulio's acceptance of Wilson's assessment of the ghettos and his proposed solutions, the government can only do so much. The responsibility of carrying out these suggestions lies in the hands of the residents; they must take it upon themselves to reverse the recent downward trends and better their lives.



Actually it specifically states the need for government aid, etc which is in line with Wilson's position and really nothing brought up in this "critique" attacks the mountain of evidence Wilson uses to back up his arguments so its pretty easily dismissed. Personal responsibility is important, but the environments we exist in are just as important and have a major role in how our lives develop. Would you blame a soldier on a battlefield for not ducking when he got shot?

[Robert]

At least we don't have to put up with bullshit capitalists who's arguments aren't new and have been addressed probably hundreds of times before.)

I question whether you really want to succeed in this "revolution" when I see posts like this. All the commies here are cheering you on, of course, but you're never going to persuade anyone else by telling them they are just "bullshit capitalists." Even if they are.

I suppose you could forcefully take charge and purge them all. I suspect that's why you've had strong men hijack revolutions in so many other places: nothing else works. How else do you explain the dreary inevitability of ... well, you don't need to be reminded again of the Communist Hall of Fame.

[Killfacer]

hey most of the regular posters here in OI a perfectly sensible and dont come out with idiotic posts like captaincapitalist68 or the weird johnmcain08 bloke.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Threads like these are the main reason this forum exists. So that rejects don't pollute the rest of the board with this shit. (The fact that rejects can still pollute the rest of the board under the guise of "communism" doesn't mean shit. At least we don't have to put up with bullshit capitalists who's arguments aren't new and have been addressed probably hundreds of times before.)







See CaptainCapitalist68 (incidentally, what's the number mean?), you aren't being original, your arguments aren't new. I, at least, have seen them all before. And you know what? They are boring.

Who says that I am trying to be or that i care about being original? Frogive me if you thoguht i was some new Philosopher who was goign to come up with something new and orignal that would blow everyone away... Its just a number, doesn't mean anything. Don't kill yourself over it.




The fact is, the USSR wasn't paradise, North Korea is a shit hole, and who would want to live in China? (Cuba is still a better place then most of the "capitalist" countries around it though.) But the USSR was never "communist", they never claimed to be providing a communist system, merely (at most) the first stage on the road to the future perfect society.

So if cuba is so great then why are many people from Cuba risking their whole lives and the lives of their families in order to come to an evil semi capitalist society like the US?

Did you know that Fidel castro didn't even let his citizens have cell phones, computers or TVs? That alone is enough to make a country shitty.




Oh, and did I hear mention that China is capitalist? Has been for years. Heck, they even joined the WTO!

Main land China is a communist society. hong kong is a captilist city from which main land China gets a lot of wealth and profits from and where life is 10 times better then main land China. IMAGINE THAT!!!




Anyway, no matter the flaws with the various "socialist" countries (and I for one reject the claim that the USSR was socialist, at least after the first few years), capitalism is shit too!

Yeah no kiddin, Nothing good ever came from all those stupid capitalist societies. I wish America and Europe and any other first world capitlaist society would have never existed.





Oh heck, I was going to compile a long list of leaders and coups and civil wars in the name of capitalism, but considering there is a thread called that does that, I won't bother repeating it.





Basically, capitalism is a really shit system.




And I, for one, desire something better, a better world. And I'm willing to fight for it.

I know you believe people shouldnt have the freedom to be rich, or to have more then the other guy, or to not work, or to not help the other guy. I know you are willing to fight for a world where there is a lot less freedom.

i really wish there was a island all you communist would all just go live in that way you'll know when you'r on a blink of death and starvation that your system does not work.





My better world doesn't include starving children (which obviously your perfect system promotes and supports), nor does it support any rulers.

My world is the world where people are free to choose. they can choose how much they want to pay or not pay and who they can hire and not hire. Both parties have to agree upon something before anything gets done.

My world doesn't support any rulers or starving children. All those people who are starving or dieing wouldn't be entitle to any type of free support or help in my world. People are free to die and people are free to help one another too.

BTW no one is dieing of starvation under the American Captitlist society, In fact many poor people are fat.

[Lost In Translation]

Fox News and CNN are the most democratic, and bias-free news stations in the world !
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's going into my list of outrageous quotes.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Dust Bunnies]

BTW no one is dieing of starvation under the American Captitlist society, In fact many poor people are fat.

...

That quote is going in my signature, congratulations!

If you think no one dies of starvation in America you sir need to stop watching Faux News.

[Robert]

If you think no one dies of starvation in America you sir need to stop watching Faux News.

I read the paper and monitor all channels available to me and am unaware of any of them reporting on starvation in the USA, Fox News or otherwise. (Aside from the random innocent child tied up in a closet by one of your fellow citizen wage slaves.)

I hope you're not confusing malnutrition, from which every soda drinking kid in the states admittedly suffers, with starvation.

So who is starving to death in the USA?

[Chapter 24]

Did you know that Fidel castro didn't even let his citizens have cell phones, computers or TVs? That alone is enough to make a country shitty.

The majority of Latin Americans don't even have these things.

Also, why do you base the entire country's domestic policy on these things? Material conditions are different in Cuba than they are here. If you honestly think that the only reason a country would be shitty is for this, think about the domestic policy of the United States and the Patriot Act. Case in point: are you even aware of its existance? Then why, in fact, does the Patriot Act not automatically make this country shitty because of its legalization of various covert tactics in order to hault "terrorist activity" - such as checking out "certain books" at your local library?



Main land China is a communist society.

Erm... no. And this is where your argument falls apart. China is not even SOCIALIST, let alone COMMUNIST. But you just had to go the whole nine yards and say that it was COMMUNIST, when it in fact and has been for quite some time now been a CAPITALIST society.



Yeah no kiddin, Nothing good ever came from all those stupid capitalist societies. I wish America and Europe and any other first world capitlaist society would have never existed.

We are not saying that capitalism has NEVER been good, on the contrary it has made many advances in human history that would have been unheard of in feudal societies. In fact, compared to its former system, feudalism, capitalism is VERY progressive. But it has also been, for quite some time now, overstaying its welcome and evolved into a system of vast exploitation and alienation suffered upon which the workers suffer. We therefore would like to smash this system and replace it with a "better" society.



I know you believe people shouldnt have the freedom to be rich, or to have more then the other guy, or to not work, or to not help the other guy. I know you are willing to fight for a world where there is a lot less freedom.
Ah yes, you caught us!:rolleyes:


i really wish there was a island all you communist would all just go live in that way you'll know when you'r on a blink of death and starvation that your system does not work.

That'd definitely solve the problem. Just keep us on an isolated island and we'll fail. That'll prove it doesn't work. Then everyone can be happy under capitalism!


My world is the world where people are free to choose.

As is ours.


My world doesn't support any rulers

So... market anarchism?


or starving children.

Yikes! Guess the whole Africa thing kinda contradicts that.


All those people who are starving or dieing wouldn't be entitle to any type of free support or help in my world.

Yeah, all those Haitians and Nicaraguans need to stop whining about how they're paid less than a dollar a day to work and live in horrendous conditions! They have just as much opportunity as everyone else to make something of themselves.


People are free to die

So I guess all those Ethiopians suffering through starvation and an AIDS epidemic is just a prime example of consequences of choosing to live such a lifestyle. Well tsk tsk tsk.