Sharia Law in Britain

[Bud Struggle]

I guess you Great Britishers knew about this for a while, but it's news to me.

It seems more than a little step backwards for woman's rights.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

From The Sunday Times

September 14, 2008


Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

Abul Taher

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court...

... There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

[Raúl Duke]

IS this for real?

I wonder which party (labour, conservatives, etc) are mostly responsible for this!

:confused::blink::thumbdown:

[apathy maybe]

Well isn't that bullshit. I thought one of the points of having a "liberal-democratic" state was that everyone should be treated as equal before the law, and the law should apply equally to all. (Both the rich and poor are forbidden to sleep under bridges and to steal bread.)

[progressive_lefty]

I am still a cynic, the British media is known for being agressive towards Arabs and guilty of Islamophobia in the past. One just has to look at the uproar created over the comments made by Rowan Williams that were taken completely out of context.

I am no fan of mistreatment of women or extreme right-wing movements with-in Islam, but I do find it hard to see an accurate criticism of Sharia from mainstream news sources.

[Dean]

This is an attempt to isolate Muslims from the rest of British society. By granting this power to the courts, a segregation is created both legally and socially; different standards start to apply, and Shari'a law becomes more reinforced than its previous existence as a guide for Muslims.

[reddevil]

what if there are muslims who don't want to live under religious opression and or be spoken for by reactionary "community leaders"? what about their rights? i'm all in favour of a multicultural society, but this is the wrong way to go about it, only serving to cause divisions rather than unify the nation. not to mention the threat it might cause to our decadent lifestyles!

[rednordman]

Seriously this has got to be a joke. I mean there is that much islamophobia within the british isles at the moment, there would most likely be riots in the streets (which i am sad to say even though i oppose sharia law). I do not know what things are like for muslims living in the USA, but in the UK, people are so paraniod and ignourant about the islamic faith, it is actually rather embarrasing.

[Killfacer]

Its a disgrace. Like Dean pointed out, it enshrines segregation in law. It infringes womens rights; all inhabitants of the UK should be treated equally whether they like it or not.

[Flash]

That is what happens when you believe your nation can be shared with immigrants who do not follow Western Values? Why is it that multiculturilism is only enforced on Western Civilization? Sharia law NEEDS to be in Europe, yet to question Saudi Arabia's human rights is to question their culture. Britain shouldn't have been so politicall correct, now they are surrendering their ancient country.


The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

Hehe. But keep complaining about Western culture, Europe. Everything that has been accomplished throughout history will be totally reversed if things keep going the way they're going.


what about their rights?

But you see they (muslims) don't view criticism of their leaders is a right. Thats what happens when you accept millions of immigrants from a place like the Middle East and expect them to become Westerners overnight. Welcome to Non-Western Civilization.

[Bud Struggle]

As a Catholic I wouldn't mind if they had a separate legal system for Catholics--for, let's say, speeding instead of paying a $200 fine--I'd just have to say ten Hail Marys. :lol:

[Socialistpenguin]

Dunno why everyone's getting so worked up about this. It's not like it's a new phenomenon with religious groups: the Jewish community in Britain have had the Beth Din for years, and their jurisdiction applies to the same civic cases as these courts.

Granted, I don't think religious groups should have their own judicial apparatus, but we can't say to one group that they can't do it when another group already has.

But alas, this is about Muslims: HEAD FOR THE HILLS, BILLY! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING WITH THEIR SPECIAL COURTS AND THEIR HALAL CHICKEN!

[Qwerty Dvorak]

This might be a bit much to ask but does anyone have any actual information on Sharia Law in Britain? For example, which laws enshrine the legal force of Sharia Law, what are the areas of jurisdiction, what happens in the event of a conflict of laws etc.?

[Demogorgon]

Sharia based arbitration systems have been given official recognition to make the process more efficient. That is all. I don't know what is sadder, the media reporting s if Britain is now under Shari law or people believing it.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I trust I don't need to point out that arbitration is still subject to the law of the land. Also, arbitration is generally only binding on consenting parties.

[Robert]

That is all. I don't know what is sadder, the media reporting s if Britain is now under Shari law or people believing it.

Demo, have you seen those British government vans with the electronic gizmos that can detect a muslim watching TV without a license?

[Sendo]

Ten Hail Marys would be nice, but who's to say you wouldn't get stuck with lashes instead, or fasting.

[Forward Union]

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

http://i.eprci.net/picard-facepalm

[Flash]

In Britain:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/muslim220806_600x400.jpg

Europe:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_02/denmarkG_468x375.jpg


I dont' believe its islamophobia, nor do I really believe theres Islamo-Fascism. However it is insane how there are people who think you can take Non-Western peoples, such as Middle Easterners, and turn them into Westerners overnight. These people are already demanding shariah law, I wonder how long will it be until people notice that there is an elephant in their living room.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The more interesting phenomenon is sharia banking.

[Raúl Duke]

I trust I don't need to point out that arbitration is still subject to the law of the land. Also, arbitration is generally only binding on consenting parties.

Oh, ok.

Then that's fine I guess...?

[Jazzratt]

In Britain:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/muslim220806_600x400.jpg

Europe:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_02/denmarkG_468x375.jpg

Scary, scary people! Although you do realise that, in the UK the scarier group of religious nutters is the one that this bloke:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Stephen_green.jpg

is in charge of. It's called Christian Voice, they campaign to destroy many of the rights people take for granted (like what they do with their genitals), they can get their insidious fundamentalist message to more MPs and other power brokers to greater effect than the people you pictured would ever dream of. WHich kind of makes this rant:



I dont' believe its islamophobia, nor do I really believe theres Islamo-Fascism. However it is insane how there are people who think you can take Non-Western peoples, such as Middle Easterners, and turn them into Westerners overnight. These people are already demanding shariah law, I wonder how long will it be until people notice that there is an elephant in their living room.

stupid. While they may demand Sharia law (and as many people have pointed out, get their demands revoked) and pollute our fine arayn shores or whatever the fuck it is you're talking about but the fact is they currently are, and most likely will remain, far less of a threat than Bigoted Voice and their accomplices in parliment.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Oh, ok.

Then that's fine I guess...?
Are you being sarcastic?

[Flash]

Scary, scary people! Although you do realise that, in the UK the scarier group of religious nutters is the one that this bloke:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Stephen_green.jpg

is in charge of. It's called Christian Voice, they campaign to destroy many of the rights people take for granted (like what they do with their genitals), they can get their insidious fundamentalist message to more MPs and other power brokers to greater effect than the people you pictured would ever dream of. WHich kind of makes this rant:

From reading about them all they seem to be is a small fringe group who opposes homosexuality.

A large Non-Western Middle Eastern population however is more danger and a much more obvious threat to Europe. Do you seriously think that Europe should be multicultural and have shariah law to the muslims? Why is it that these muslims can't just accept British culture? Freedom of speech and the rights of women/children are illusions to most middle eastern societys. These people left those countries because of this, right? And yet they would like to see the same thing in a democratic nation.

[Raúl Duke]

Are you being sarcastic?

IDK...I thought you said that people decide whether they want to decide a civil case by sharia law and even so it's under the "law of the land."

While I don't like it I find it better then what I previously thought: that all muslims had to go through sharia law and it can do things that are against the usual law.

I think I'm confused...

[Jazzratt]

From reading about them all they seem to be is a small fringe group who opposes homosexuality.

...and oppose other fundamental rights, such as abortion. They are also part of a growing trend of disturbingly powerful Christian fundamentalist groups.


A large Non-Western Middle Eastern population however is more danger and a much more obvious threat to Europe.

It really isn't. You're delusional.


Do you seriously think that Europe should be multicultural and have shariah law to the muslims?

That's one fuck of a stupid question. One can have a multicultural society without adding oppressive law structures.


Why is it that these muslims can't just accept British culture?

Because "British culture", like every other culture, changes. The advancement of world culture has been exemplified by the growth of cultures which absorb other cultures - taking from them what is good for the culture, and leaving what is not. British culture, especially, is based on change and on accepting the influence of other cultures.


Freedom of speech and the rights of women/children are illusions to most middle eastern societys.

And?


These people left those countries because of this, right? And yet they would like to see the same thing in a democratic nation.

Do you have any numbers with that or are you just pulling it out of your racist arse, dickhead? You are making the assumption that the majority of the muslim population supports this shit - produce some fucking evidence or fuck off.

[Green Dragon]

...and oppose other fundamental rights, such as abortion. They are also part of a growing trend of disturbingly powerful Christian fundamentalist groups.



It really isn't. You're delusional.



That's one fuck of a stupid question. One can have a multicultural society without adding oppressive law structures.



Because "British culture", like every other culture, changes. The advancement of world culture has been exemplified by the growth of cultures which absorb other cultures - taking from them what is good for the culture, and leaving what is not. British culture, especially, is based on change and on accepting the influence of other cultures.



And?



Do you have any numbers with that or are you just pulling it out of your racist arse, dickhead? You are making the assumption that the majority of the muslim population supports this shit - produce some fucking evidence or fuck off.

Islam is generally against abortion and homosexuality. And as the original note pointed out, the sharia court treated the daughters unequally in the land dispute BECAUSE they were female.

I am assuming you are not a Moslem, so I am wondering why you are not against change as demanded by some of Islam, but are against change as demanded by this "powerful" Christian fundamentalist group.

The comment made was not that the majority of UK moslems support unequal treatment as meted out by sharia justice. But suggesting the majority of Moslems came to the UK to get AWAY from such courts in their home countries.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

IDK...I thought you said that people decide whether they want to decide a civil case by sharia law and even so it's under the "law of the land."

While I don't like it I find it better then what I previously thought: that all muslims had to go through sharia law and it can do things that are against the usual law.

I think I'm confused...
No no, Muslims cannot be subject to Sharia-style arbitration against their will. Generally two parties will enter into arbitration consensually, or it may be included in the clause of a contract. And arbitration usually deals only with civil cases like land ownership etc. Of course if a man subjects his wife to domestic abuse he will still have to answer to the law.

[Robert]

I LOVE how the asshole holding the "behead those who insult Islam" sign is covering his face. I am sure the brothers to his left and right renounce his
violent ideation.

[Colonello Buendia]

HEAD FOR THE HILLS, BILLY! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING WITH THEIR SPECIAL COURTS AND THEIR HALAL CHICKEN! Halal chicken is fucking tasty:) regardless of whether this is true or not, that it's been mentioned will make the BNP very happy bunnies

[Additonal Pylons]

Jews and Christians have had the exact same power, Said before, Don't get worked up folks.
It has NO effect on non-islamic cases

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Hey we got something that some communist and some capitalist can both agree on.

Yeah, fuck sharia law in Europe. This bastards need to take their religion back to the desserts where it belongs.

[apathy maybe]

Hey we got something that some communist and some capitalist can both agree on.

Yeah, fuck sharia law in Europe. This bastards need to take their religion back to the desserts where it belongs.

Sounds like you are on the road to Bansville.

Have a think about that stupid statement you just wrote (the last sentence).

How many Muslims are "white" and, born and raised in Britain? Heard of a fellow called Cat Stevens? He isn't called that any more (hasn't been for years).

Materialist communists (and other materialist revolutionary leftists) don't object to the people practising a religion as such, we object to all religion as being superstitious bullshit, dangerous to the mental health of children etc.

That means we think that Christian laws should not have any part of government or society either. (Incidentally, do you think that Christians should take their religion back to the desert from where it came? What about Jews? All three religions started in the desert.)

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Sounds like you are on the road to Bansville.

Have a think about that stupid statement you just wrote (the last sentence).

How many Muslims are "white" and, born and raised in Britain? Heard of a fellow called Cat Stevens? He isn't called that any more (hasn't been for years).

Materialist communists (and other materialist revolutionary leftists) don't object to the people practising a religion as such, we object to all religion as being superstitious bullshit, dangerous to the mental health of children etc.

That means we think that Christian laws should not have any part of government or society either. (Incidentally, do you think that Christians should take their religion back to the desert from where it came? What about Jews? All three religions started in the desert.)

The Christians have grown out of the dark ages. They no longer burn witches at the stake or massacre Jews. Islam however is still stuck in its dark ages. They still punish and kill women who are dishonorable, homosexuals, witches, blasphemers, and infidels.

Honestly though, Islam considers the greatest man on Earth to be Mohammed. Mohammed also had sex with a 9 year old, had sex with slave girls and even massacred whole villages.

Just recently,an Islamic group tried to pass a law in Europe, which would make criticizing Islam illegal. How are we to fight for freedom if we can't say that their religion is bad?

[apathy maybe]

The Christians have grown out of the dark ages. They no longer burn witches at the stake or massacre Jews. Islam however is still stuck in its dark ages. They still punish and kill women who are dishonorable, homosexuals, witches, blasphemers, and infidels.

Honestly though, Islam considers the greatest man on Earth to be Mohammed. Mohammed also had sex with a 9 year old, had sex with slave girls and even massacred whole villages.

Just recently,an Islamic group tried to pass a law in Europe, which would make criticizing Islam illegal. How are we to fight for freedom if we can't say that their religion is bad?
Funny thing, I've heard this argument before. Also from a capitalist (an atheist).

Christianity has not, as a whole, become a mature, accepting, tolerant religion. Indeed, there are parts of it where having sex with 9 year olds is fine, slaves god said I could have slaves!, and don't forget the Crusades, which certain types would love to see come about again. (Wait, isn't that why America is in Iraq? To bring religion to the heathens? Sorry, "democracy", the belief that picking who rules you is a good thing (as opposed to not having anyone rule you.))

Anyway, let's have a closer look at your list of things Christians do:
"burn witches at the stake" - sorry don't do. Much. Any more.
"massacre Jews" - Certain types of Christian would love to massacre the Jews once more. The KKK was still strong in the USA until the sixties, and hung "blacks" and Jews both. A big part of the Nazi party in Germany was Christian, and had a Christian reason for killing the Jews. (Modern Nazis are often Christian too.)
"They still punish and kill women who are dishonorable" - some Muslims do this. Some also let women walk around without covering their hair.
"homosexuals" - Wait, are you talking about Muslims or Christians here?
"witches" - and here (how many witches have been burnt at the stake recently by anyone?)?
"blasphemers" - here?
"infidels" and here?

I'm not sure if you are talking about crazy Christians or crazy Muslims, it's all blurring for me!

Wait, let's talk about the Jews again for a minute. The religion that "gave birth" to the other two we have been talking about. The religion that says that God gave them a holy land (which was inhabited by another people at the time of course), and ordered them to kill everyone in that land.

Many Jews feel justified in killing all the Palestinians because God said so! God gave them this land! Oh, and don't forget the Christians who support the massacring of all the Palestinians, because when all the Jews are in Israel, the rapture shall come!


Basically, Islam isn't the problem, religion is the problem. And the sooner you realise that, the better it shall be for your brain.

[Killfacer]

Funny thing, I've heard this argument before. Also from a capitalist (an atheist).

Christianity has not, as a whole, become a mature, accepting, tolerant religion. Indeed, there are parts of it where having sex with 9 year olds is fine, slaves god said I could have slaves!, and don't forget the Crusades, which certain types would love to see come about again. (Wait, isn't that why America is in Iraq? To bring religion to the heathens? Sorry, "democracy", the belief that picking who rules you is a good thing (as opposed to not having anyone rule you.))

Anyway, let's have a closer look at your list of things Christians do:
"burn witches at the stake" - sorry don't do. Much. Any more.
"massacre Jews" - Certain types of Christian would love to massacre the Jews once more. The KKK was still strong in the USA until the sixties, and hung "blacks" and Jews both. A big part of the Nazi party in Germany was Christian, and had a Christian reason for killing the Jews. (Modern Nazis are often Christian too.)
"They still punish and kill women who are dishonorable" - some Muslims do this. Some also let women walk around without covering their hair.
"homosexuals" - Wait, are you talking about Muslims or Christians here?
"witches" - and here (how many witches have been burnt at the stake recently by anyone?)?
"blasphemers" - here?
"infidels" and here?

I'm not sure if you are talking about crazy Christians or crazy Muslims, it's all blurring for me!

Wait, let's talk about the Jews again for a minute. The religion that "gave birth" to the other two we have been talking about. The religion that says that God gave them a holy land (which was inhabited by another people at the time of course), and ordered them to kill everyone in that land.

Many Jews feel justified in killing all the Palestinians because God said so! God gave them this land! Oh, and don't forget the Christians who support the massacring of all the Palestinians, because when all the Jews are in Israel, the rapture shall come!


Basically, Islam isn't the problem, religion is the problem. And the sooner you realise that, the better it shall be for your brain.



I agree with you entirely and i think capitaincockfacethecapitalist's comments about muslims fucking off back to the dessert (?) are despicable. B

But you did say "christians have not grown out of the dark ages as much has people think".... "remember the crusades!"

You then went on to list what a small minority USED to do.

Whats the point in trying to defend islam? Islam, at this current time, is a more damaging religion than any other on earth. It has not always been this way, we all know this and we also all know it will not always be this way. But at the moment islam is the most dangerous religion.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

Funny thing, I've heard this argument before. Also from a capitalist (an atheist).

I keep hearing the same thing from communist. Aparently the fault for all the evil int he world comes from Capitalism.



Christianity has not, as a whole, become a mature, accepting, tolerant religion. Indeed, there are parts of it where having sex with 9 year olds is fine, slaves god said I could have slaves!, and don't forget the Crusades, which certain types would love to see come about again. (Wait, isn't that why America is in Iraq? To bring religion to the heathens? Sorry, "democracy", the belief that picking who rules you is a good thing (as opposed to not having anyone rule you.))

If a Christian in this country is caught doign something wrong, like havign sex with a 9 year old or killing in the name of God then he will be tried. In an Islamic countries people get away with having sex with kids and killing in the name of Job.

If this really was a crusade then we would've taken over killed off everyone and stolen all their resources. But on the contrary, the US is using its own money to build Iraq up and we are giving power back to the Iraqi government.






I'm not sure if you are talking about crazy Christians or crazy Muslims, it's all blurring for me!



No Iam saying that Muslim still do those things and many times get away with it. Christians don' do this things any longer.




Wait, let's talk about the Jews again for a minute. The religion that "gave birth" to the other two we have been talking about. The religion that says that God gave them a holy land (which was inhabited by another people at the time of course), and ordered them to kill everyone in that land.

Many Jews feel justified in killing all the Palestinians because God said so! God gave them this land! Oh, and don't forget the Christians who support the massacring of all the Palestinians, because when all the Jews are in Israel, the rapture shall come!


Basically, Islam isn't the problem, religion is the problem. And the sooner you realise that, the better it shall be for your brain.

I totally agree with you in that religion is a problem. Its a big source of hate. However not all desert dogma monotheism are all the same. Some are more evil then others. Its stupid to think that they are all the same.

If I were to make cartoons of Jesus in front of christians in a christian country they probably wouldn't kill many. Hell if they were funny enough they would laugh. And we have made many cartoons about Jesus.

What if I made cartoons about Mohammed in an Islamic Country? I'd probably get stoned to death.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

I agree with you entirely and i think capitaincockfacethecapitalist's comments about muslims fucking off back to the dessert (?) are despicable. B

But you did say "christians have not grown out of the dark ages as much has people think".... "remember the crusades!"

You then went on to list what a small minority USED to do.

Whats the point in trying to defend islam? Islam, at this current time, is a more damaging religion than any other on earth. It has not always been this way, we all know this and we also all know it will not always be this way. But at the moment islam is the most dangerous religion.

If you don't believe in defending Islam then why are you defending it?

You're saying Islam is the most dangerous religion but you don't agree with me when I say Muslims should take their shit back to the dessert?

[Killfacer]

How am i defending islam you fucking cretin? I would never defend any religion, let alone one which has so many right wing tendancies.

Firstly you are clearly and ignortant idiot. Secondly your statement about going back to the "dessert" was plain stupid:

Desert:
http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndp2/namib-desert-air-p-50.2.jpg


Dessert:
http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/3092/images/3092_MEDIUM.jpg


You are evidence that we did descend from monkeys.

[CaptainCapitalist68]

How am i defending islam you fucking cretin? I would never defend any religion, let alone one which has so many right wing tendancies.

Firstly you are clearly and ignortant idiot. Secondly your statement about going back to the "dessert" was plain stupid:




You are evidence that we did descend from monkeys.

I said Muslims need to take their religion back to the desert not take themselves back to the desert.

BTW, in communist society you can kiss all your desserts, luxuries and anything nice good-bye because you won't have any just as long as there is anyone out there that is poor and can't afford them.

[Sendo]

Obviously Mohammed's book is responsible for the fact that Rome over cultivated the breadbasket of the Mediterranean (North Africa and Greater Palestine/Jordan/et.al.) and that it is a desert.

He's also responsible for the US encouraging autocracy in Saudi Arabia and preventing responsible use of oil and nationalization of oil in the Middle East. Mohammed is also responsbile for the havoc that the US and Israel wreak on the area.

So yeah, Muslims just want to take away all of our desserts and luxuries and put the whole Earth into one big Sahara.

[Killfacer]

I said Muslims need to take their religion back to the desert not take themselves back to the desert.

BTW, in communist society you can kiss all your desserts, luxuries and anything nice good-bye because you won't have any just as long as there is anyone out there that is poor and can't afford them.


Do you understand communism? Because i have a very basic understanding of it, not being a communist is probably the main reason for that but even i know that your last statement is just about the most ignorant bullshit ever to have been said in the never ending dank, crappy and dark history of bullshitness.

Are you saying that communism is bad, because without poor people we wont have nice stuff? If so then you are an idiot.