WWPD?

[Chiak47]

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/18415WWPD.jpg

"There isn't any defense that can't be overcome somehow or other. Every day something happens to remind me of it. Hell, even though armor-piercing shell just bounce off some of its steel-domes pillboxes, we still managed to get through the Siegfried Line. The whole Trier battle ought to give the pacifists something to think about. They ought to remember that Troy fell and so did the walls of Rome [six times]. The Great Wall of China was a near perfect example of futility, just as has been every damned defensive fortress up to and including the Maginot Line, the German West Wall, and now this one. A leadership that takes a defense mentality is dooming its own people to extinction (206)."

"We've got a President who's a great politician and who pulled things together, when they had to be. But God damn it, the man has never read history. He doesn't understand the Russians and he never will. They're Mongols, and they're Slavs and a lot of them used to be ruled by Byzantium. From Ghengis Khan to Stalin, they haven't changed. They never will and we, we'll never learn, not anyway until it's too damned late. (209)"

Patton's nephew asked him this question one night, "Why do you do it, Uncle George? I just heard you admit that you swagger around and rant and swear and wave pistols, but the effect on morale doesn't sound like a good enough reason. Why do you get off such god-awful statements that get repeated and quoted in the press?"
"Ok Freddy, you asked, so I'll tell you. In any war, a commander, no matter what his rank, has to send to sure death, nearly every day, by his own orders, a certain number of men. Some are his personal friends. All are his personal responsibility, to them as his troops and to their families. Any man with a heart would, then, like to sit down and bawl like a baby, but he can't. So he sticks out his jaw, and swaggers and swears. I wish some of those pious sonofa***** sisters at home could understand something as basic as that." Then he smiled. "And as for the kind of remarks I make, why sometimes, I just, by God, get carried away by my own eloquence (207)."

"You have to turn around and know who she is when she (Fate) taps you on the shoulder, because she will. It happens to every man, but damned few times in his life. Then you must decide to follow where she points (210)"

Ayer, Fred Jr. Before the Colors Fade. The Riverside Press. Cambridge. 1964

[Dirty Jersey]

ya gotta love patton but i think id be pretty scared if we followed his example. he hated the russians and im pretty sure he was a major advocate for the use of nuclear weapons. whether thats true or not i still admire him. gotta love a man with the balls to slap another soldier and then give an obviously bullshit apology.

[Chiak47]

We need more men like him.

I often wonder if editorials in newspapers during WW2
ever had anti-war comments.

WWPD?
When he was hit and before he died on scene he said it's not the drivers fault.Meaning the driver of the US truck.
Old blood and Guts we need you back SIR...

[redstar2000]

When faced with the problem of appointing new commanders, Napoleon is said to have always asked, "Is he lucky?"

Patton's reputation was made against exhausted second-line German soldiers on the western front; Germany's best troops were desperately fighting (and losing) on the eastern front.

It helped, of course, that he was a superior commander to that peabrain Montgomery; when your competition is grossly incompetent, it's really hard not to look good.

And Patton is quite right about "defensive" strategies; they almost never work. (Engels made the same observation back in the 1840s with regards to revolutionaries.)

Napoleon would definitely have appointed Patton a general.

:cool:

[Chiak47]

Really?The troops in North Africa led by the nazi's best General were 2nd rate?
The push through Italy and all that bad terrain?
The rush through europe and into Berlin was all moot also?

Battle of the bulge took 4 weeks and cost the US 19,000 men for a country and a front that was not ours to begin with.

Wow....Please great war tactician,give details how you would have done any better.

Shit you brushed shoulders with revolutionaries and ever since you thought you were one.LOL

Have you ever fired a firearm?Do you believe in the private ownership of them?What about after your fabled revolution?
Do tell.

[Disgustipated]

About the only things I remember of Patton's famous quotes was when he was walking up and down an assembled line and said to a soldier, something to the effect of " are you ready?" to which the soldier replied "I'm ready to die for my country sir!", to which Patton replied "son...the idea is not for you to die for your country...the idea is to make some other poor son of a ***** die for his!". No question the man was a leader of men and a great motivator. A bit of a warmonger, but I guess that's what you'd expect from a general. :biggrin:

The other troubling thing I remember reading was something about Patton believing he was re-incarnated from Peter the Great or Alexander the Great or someone like that. (People here will probably remember), and near the end of his life he had become quite delusional and transfixed with the notion. Maybe the stress of seeing so much death and destruction was getting to him. I know it happens. Beauregard for the Conferderate Army lost his marbles after seeing so many dead 10-13 year old soldiers dead after the battle of Shiloh. Kind of retired a crazy old man. Maybe the same fate awaited Patton.

[Dirty Jersey]

1 it wasnt just patton in north africa. and if i remember my history correctly we got beat down at kasserine our first real battle in africa. 2 italy was kind of bad for patton because he was used as a decoy for the normandy invasion. im sure he would have loved to be involved from the get go. 3 the russians beat us to berlin. some say we let them beat us because of their tremendous losses in the war. im sure patton would have hated this no matter what really happened. 4 the battle of the bulge was mostly fought by the 101st airborne. patton was merely the cavalry and its debatable whether or not he was needed. in my opinion rommel was the better general even if he didnt win. had they had the same amount of resources i am sure rommel would have decimated pattons forces.

[Chiak47]

Thousands and thousands of hip particles and ripped open rib cages tend to drive men a little crazy.
Regardless.

I give Rommel all kinds of credit.Even though I hate nazi's with a passion.Socialist fucks.
I also give Hitler credit even though I can't stand his visions...He was a great revolutionary.
Won the hearts of the poor.He lost it bad in the mind also.Terrible war tactician..Thought he knew it all..

Hell why I'm on a roll even Stalin was a great war horse.
Hell he lost it also..

I see a pattern...
Anyways.
I'm the type of man that gives credit where credit is due.

[Just Joe]

Patton was an unashamed anti-semite.

[Chiak47]

He was a damn fine warrior/leader.

[Dirty Jersey]

it wouldnt surprise me. by the way rommel wasnt a really nazi.

[Hampton]

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. ---Major General Smedley Butler, USMC awarded two Congressional Medals of Honor

[redstar2000]

Chiak47, I'll pass over your ignorance of World War II history--you might want to read at least one or two books on the subject before you spout off--and instead I'll just answer your questions.

Have I ever fired a firearm? yes

Do I believe in the private ownership of firearms? yes

What about after my revolution? An armed working class is the fundamental guarantee of the communist revolution!

:cool:

[Chiak47]

Mr Ambrose,
If I made a mistake please correct me.By all means.

Thanks,
ME

[kelvin90701]

Quote: from Dirty Jersey on 10:30 am on Mar. 28, 2003
ya gotta love patton but i think id be pretty scared if we followed his example. he hated the russians and im pretty sure he was a major advocate for the use of nuclear weapons. whether thats true or not i still admire him. gotta love a man with the balls to slap another soldier and then give an obviously bullshit apology.


There were two slapping incidents, both of them received apologies. One soldier got a bullshit apology 3 months later. The other soldier got a true and heartfelt apology 15 minutes later.

[Just Joe]

just to put beyond any doubt that Socialists don't want ownership of firearms for the people, i'll refer you to point 4 of the demands of the Communist Party written by Karl Marx:-

Universal arming of the people. In future the armies shall be simultaneously labour armies, so that the troops shall not, as formerly, merely consume, but shall produce more than is necessary for their upkeep.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works.../1848/03/24.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm)