A philosopher more renown than Marx?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I'm trying to think of someone who would meet the requirements of being more renown (well-known and supported) than Marx, but I can't think of anyone. Unlike Roman and Greek philosophers, Marx is well known in the Asian and African continents. Some Korean students I was talking with didn't know who Plato was, but they heard of Marx. I think that's pretty interesting, all things considered.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Jesus.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Jesus.

Maybe I should have quantified my question with "non-fictional," or Harry Potter could also give Marx a run for his money.:lol:

[Os Cangaceiros]

Muhammed, as well.

But if you were to say "non-theological philosopher", I'd agree with Marx.

[turquino]

Everyone knows who Aristotle is and i think Confucius is more familiar than Marx.

[pusher robot]

Lennon.

[Winter]

Descarte?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Descarte?

His importance is considerable, but I doubt half of all Westerners could recognize that name, let alone Asians.


Everyone knows who Aristotle is and i think Confucius is more familiar than Marx.Confucius would probably beat out Marx by a mile in China and Korea, but again I'm not sure you can carry this over to Africa, Europe, and the Americas.

Perhaps the Buddha.


Lennon
1980. :crying:

[Gleb]

I'll go for that Jewish carpenter dude, Yeshua from town of Nazareth.

[pusher robot]

Quote:
Lennon

1980. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/crying.gif


Where do the ducks go in the winter?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I like your choice in literature.

[Bud Struggle]

Maybe I should have quantified my question with "non-fictional," or Harry Potter could also give Marx a run for his money.:lol:

Well as a "philosopher" of National Socialism--I guess Hitler is right up there with Marx.

And interesting point: they have about the same number of "real life" followers in today's world.

[Hit The North]

Confucius would probably beat out Marx by a mile in China and Korea, but again I'm not sure you can carry this over to Africa, Europe, and the Americas. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people in China and Korea had not heard of Marx - China and North Korea have claimed to be communist, after all.

[counterblast]

Neitzche
Hitler
Plato


Those are the only non-religious ones that might compare.

[Demogorgon]

Kant maybe?

[Holden Caulfield]

Neitzche
but without knowing it, how many Nietzsche quotes have snuck into every day usage, think about it

there is even a Nietzsche quote at the start of Conan with Arnie in it,

[Hit The North]

Neitzche
Hitler
Plato


Those are the only non-religious ones that might compare.

In what sense was Hitler a philosopher? To identify his paranoid ravings as such debases even the base coin of philosophy.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Well as a "philosopher" of National Socialism--I guess Hitler is right up there with Marx.

And interesting point: they have about the same number of "real life" followers in today's world.

Tom, your ego is showing. Can you demonstrate where Nazism is as relevant as Marxism using some sources? Any one country would do. Marxist parties are first and second powers in many countries around the world, and even in the US you can find millions of socialists. Please show me one successful Nazi party in the past 40 years.

Other than sideline trackers, there are none. But if you look at countries like Nepal, Japan, China, Cyprus, France, Germany, New Zealand, Venezuela, and Russia - there are impressive numbers. When I hear Nazi the only contemporary party I can think of is the BNP, and they don't identify with the Hitler tradition (anymore at least).

Marx has prevailed above all of his critics in terms of popularity. Ayn Rand and Von Mises are taken to be less credible than Marx even by liberal philosophers. Probably because his philosophy is open to the false dichotomy between Western and Eastern philosophy. It invites individualism and cooperation. :crying:

[Socialist18]

Marx certainly put his thoughts down on paper more than Hitler did, Hitler has two books and a few other recorded conversation/thoughts. Marx has a ton of works.
In my opinion, there are more Marxists than Hitlerites. Just about everyone in the 1st,2nd and 3rd world has heard of Marx.
I've been reading a lot of Marx lately and thoroughly enjoying it.

If we are including mythical people I would say Jebus.

[Bud Struggle]

Tom, your ego is showing. Can you demonstrate where Nazism is as relevant as Marxism using some sources? Any one country would do. Marxist parties are first and second powers in many countries around the world, and even in the US you can find millions of socialists. Please show me one successful Nazi party in the past 40 years.

Other than sideline trackers, there are none. But if you look at countries like Nepal, Japan, China, Cyprus, France, Germany, New Zealand, Venezuela, and Russia - there are impressive numbers. When I hear Nazi the only contemporary party I can think of is the BNP, and they don't identify with the Hitler tradition (anymore at least).

My dear Gene, Hitler is much well known that Marx--at this present time Hitler doesn't have that many followers--but you could say the same thing about Marx today as compared with his following in the past.

Also, Marx these days is a strawman--not many actually follow his beliefs, rather they maintain a fluffy affection for what they think he might be should be or might have been.

Hitler in his National Socialism actually WAS that thing, National Socialism. Marxism is what? A kind of share the wealth economic position in the countries where "Communists" participate in National governments and a bogeyman where they don't.

When I came to RevLeft--I probably had the same understanding of Marxism as 95% of Americans if not the world (I was wrong about a great deal of it, of course,) but that's who Marx IS. Not what he wrote, said or believed--but the caricature that his zealots and detractors have portrayed him to be.

Hey, I personally think that if you somehow peal away the Trotskyists, and the Leninists, and the Stalininsts, and the Anarchists, and the Hoxaists and all the other "ists" and let Marx speak for himself--there may be something there.

But till that happy day....:rolleyes:

[bcbm]

Hey, I personally think that if you somehow peal away the Trotskyists, and the Leninists, and the Stalininsts, and the Anarchists, and the Hoxaists and all the other "ists" and let Marx speak for himself--there may be something there.

Anarchists are not a subset of Marxists.

[Bud Struggle]

Anarchists are not a subset of Marxists.

Oops, sorry about that. And I knew that, too. :rolleyes:

[Raúl Duke]

Probably Confucius...

but more in terms of influence. Confucius values influence the Asian nations socio-culturally (at least the far eastern ones) and many people in the west know his name.

Marx would be considered the more controversial (in the sense that people still discuss him and argue about him between the left and right and within the left as well; although mostly in academia one could say.) while Hitler is controversial but more in the negative sense (i.e. most people don't want to be associated with him and they don't say anything positive about him, at least not n public).

[RGacky3]

Most secular historians agree Jesus Existed as a Human, I'd say he's the most popular, but more so as a religious spiritual figure than a philosopher, his philosophies are for hte msot part pretty much ignored by people who regard him as a holy person, so he's more popular but I would say that Marx's philosophies have more actual influence, and Marxes influence is'nt JUST on communists.

I would say practically speaking more people follow Nietches philosophies, and they don't even know it :P.

[Sprinkles]

I'd say Plato is the most influential and Marx the most renown philosopher.


Hitler

Hitler wasn't a philosopher at all... Most ideas associated with National Socialism didn't originate from him but were either appropriated and distorted from reputable philosophers like Nietzsche or were insane drivel like the Vril Society and other pseudoscience occultist bullshit.


Most secular historians agree Jesus Existed as a Human, I'd say he's the most popular, but more so as a religious spiritual figure than a philosopher, his philosophies are for hte msot part pretty much ignored by people who regard him as a holy person, so he's more popular but I would say that Marx's philosophies have more actual influence, and Marxes influence is'nt JUST on communists.


I agree that the notion that Jesus is a myth is not supported by most biblical scholars, secular or otherwise. Since self professed messianic figures were a dime a dozen back then it's pretty likely that there was some guy called Yeshua who was later attributed with magical powers. The real problem with saying that Jesus is a philosopher is that the bible wasn't written by a single person, so who knows what the "real" Jesus thought.

[Bud Struggle]

I'd say Plato is the most influential and Marx the most renown philosopher. Well you are right on Plato. He invented the dialectic--which invented Western culture. As A.N. Whitehead said--"all philosophy is a footnote to Plato."




Hitler wasn't a philosopher at all... Most ideas associated with National Socialism didn't originate from him but were either appropriated and distorted from reputable philosophers like Nietzsche or were insane drivel like the Vril Society and other pseudoscience occultist bullshit. You are right about Hitler--but the same could be said about Marx--they both relied on previous information to build their philosophies.

And "insane drivel" is a two way street. ;):lol:

[Nusocialist]

I think Kropotkin, Lewis Mumford and Leopold Kohr should be. Does that count?

[Nusocialist]

I can't think of anyone really. Maybe Burke, but I doubt it.

Personally I don't think the leftist worship of Marx is particularly helpful though. He's okay but I find the likes of Kropotkin or Tawney much more interesting.

[Socialist18]

If I had to say my favorite "philosopher" it would probably be Mao, I really like his "5 essays on philosophy". I don't really know if Mao is regarded as a "philosopher" per se but I like him nonetheless.

[More Fire for the People]

A lot of religious figures get international renown: Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad. Philosophers: Locke, Hume, Kant, Rousseau, Mao.

[Sendo]

Most renowned (ironically most misunderstood and most wrongly portrayed):
Yeshua ben Yosef of Nazareth, aka Jesus.

For all of you wrote Mohammed: nope! No matter how many Muslims there are, if there is one Christian the numbers go to Jesus. Why?? Because Jesus is in the Koran! Not to mention nearly everyone on Earth has heard of Christianity or some movement that follows the teaching of Jesus. Whether you know him as the Christ, a prophet, a bodhisattva, or just some dude, you've heard about him.

And GeneCosta, I'm operating on the assumption he existed (which I "believe" to be true).

[philosopher84]

hi everybody,yes marx is greater than all,and agora 77 ,mohammads is not philosophy,it is phallacy

[RGacky3]

The real problem with saying that Jesus is a philosopher is that the bible wasn't written by a single person, so who knows what the "real" Jesus thought.

Same thing with Socrates.

[Sprinkles]

You are right about Hitler--but the same could be said about Marx--they both relied on previous information to build their philosophies.


This is such a bland statement that it barely says anything at all, so cite examples or retract. What specific noteworthy philosophical statements did Hitler make to deem him a philosopher?



And "insane drivel" is a two way street. ;):lol:Would you equate the usefulness of the labour theory of value with for example the idea that aryans are a distinct race descended from the mythical society of Atlantis?

[IcarusAngel]

Top Ten Most Highly Cited

1. Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx)
2. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin)
3. William Shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare)
4. Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle)
5. the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible)
6. Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato)
7. Sigmund Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud)
8. Noam Chomsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky)
9. Friedrich Hegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hegel)
10. Cicero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero)

Two very far leftists on there, Chomsky and Marx, and a few other leftists as well, such as Lenin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Humanities_Citation_Index

[IcarusAngel]

You know, I once heard that Mario, the video game character, is more renowned and recognized across the world than Mickey Mouse the American cartoon character.

I believe it.

That said, I don't think a Westerner like Marx is more renowned than someone like Buddha, who WAS a philosopher, by the way. Buddhism is great anyway and it really isn't pro-capitalist, either. Really, a type of a religion for a libertarian-socialist society (I think if such a society were to exist, it'd come up in the East first; of course, it already has existed in the west to some extent in Israel, but only on the small scale).

The list above, though, shows how relevant Marx, and especially Chomsky, the world's leading cited scholar, are to the social sciences?

What do the right-wing loons have to say to that? Keep in my, Chomsky is a Libertarian-Socialist, so, Libertarian-Socialists can claim to be hugely influential in the social sciences.

Chomsky also was voted the world's "number 1 public intellectual (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1018-02.htm)," beating out eco, hitchens, etc. His contributions to linguistics, philosophy, psychology, etc. have been great.

[Hit The North]

Most secular historians agree Jesus Existed as a Human...

Really? Name one.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Top Ten Most Highly Cited

1. Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx)
2. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ilyich_Lenin)
3. William Shakespeare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare)
4. Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle)
5. the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible)
6. Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato)
7. Sigmund Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud)
8. Noam Chomsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky)
9. Friedrich Hegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hegel)
10. Cicero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero)

Two very far leftists on there, Chomsky and Marx, and a few other leftists as well, such as Lenin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Humanities_Citation_Index


Marx coming out ahead of the Bible is pure gold (standard).

[Bud Struggle]

Marx coming out ahead of the Bible is pure gold (standard).

With all thiose splinter groups of Communism quoting Marx at one another--it's what one would expect. :(

:lol:

[counterblast]

In what sense was Hitler a philosopher? To identify his paranoid ravings as such debases even the base coin of philosophy.

I digress -- even philosophy has its low points. Rock bottom even.

[counterblast]

Marx coming out ahead of the Bible is pure gold (standard).

Its not that surprising. How many Christians contribute to "1,000 of the world's leading arts and humanities journals"??? Very few.

If they wanted to be fair, they'd have checked the "1,000 worst arts and humanities journals". The Bible would've won by a landslide...

[Plagueround]

My girlfriend started a sociology class yesterday. The entire first two days were covering Karl Marx, his contributions to sociology, and conflict theory. Marx did make important contributions to numerous fields, no matter how many people try to discredit him.

[Sprinkles]

With all thiose splinter groups of Communism quoting Marx at one another--it's what one would expect. :(

:lol:

You seem to have missed my previous post, so here it is again especially for you.





You are right about Hitler--but the same could be said about Marx--they both relied on previous information to build their philosophies.



This is such a bland statement that it barely says anything at all, so cite examples or retract. What specific noteworthy philosophical statements did Hitler make to deem him a philosopher?


And "insane drivel" is a two way street. ;):lol:


Would you equate the usefulness of the labour theory of value with for example the idea that aryans are a distinct race descended from the mythical society of Atlantis?