Religious Teacher

[Bear MacMillan]

A teacher at my school recently tried to prove that god exists because if his frisbee was in the middle of the classroom, it would not move without any outside force, and that the universe could not have been set into motion without some outside force.

I explained to him that the chemical compounds in the plastic would eventually break down, and would move even slightly because of deterioration. He shrugged the comment off and moved onto a different topic.

After class, I told him that he can't quantifiably proove that a higher being exists because it's a matter of how much you're willing to believe that a sky wizard made everything in 7 days, and not a fact that can be proven with empirical evidence. My teacher then went on a 10 minute rant about how he "chose to believe", and that makes it possible for him to proove god exists or some shit.

Your thoughts?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Your teachers a prick.

[Faction2008]

They are like that, they avoid intelligence.

Remember where intelligence ends, religion begins.

Just tell him to stop wasting his life and read something decent instead of the Bible.

[Bud Struggle]

The guy's job is to make you THINK. And he did just that. Good for him.:thumbup:

[Lord Testicles]

Your thoughts?

People who think that "magicman dun it!" shouldn't be allowed to hold a position with the title "teacher" in it.

[Bud Struggle]

People who think that "magicman dun it!" shouldn't be allowed to hold a position with the title "teacher" in it.

Nope, all thoughts should be allowed to exist and the best will survive.

If you want to be Darwinian--then be DARWINIAN! :lol:

[pusher robot]

A teacher at my school recently tried to prove that god exists because if his frisbee was in the middle of the classroom, it would not move without any outside force, and that the universe could not have been set into motion without some outside force.

I explained to him that the chemical compounds in the plastic would eventually break down, and would move even slightly because of deterioration. He shrugged the comment off and moved onto a different topic.

After class, I told him that he can't quantifiably proove that a higher being exists because it's a matter of how much you're willing to believe that a sky wizard made everything in 7 days, and not a fact that can be proven with empirical evidence. My teacher then went on a 10 minute rant about how he "chose to believe", and that makes it possible for him to proove god exists or some shit.

Your thoughts?

You were wrong in arguing against the truth of his argument, given that it is basically correct, and instead you should have argued against what it proves, accepting it is true.

It is in fact true that we have no real scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and all the matter and energy in it. However, that doesn't actually prove the existence of a God for two reasons:
(1) It may simply be the case that we don't yet know the cause. In ancient times, we didn't know the cause of lightning and it was assumed to be proof of the existence of gods. Today we know the cause and that the assumed proof was incorrect. Such may be the case with the universe.
(2) There is no actual requirement that there be any cause. Causality as a physical law only applies within our universe, and as such, there is no theoretical reason why the universe itself must have a cause, or, for that matter, an existence.

[Dr Mindbender]

The guy's job is to make you THINK. And he did just that. Good for him.:thumbup:

So anyone who can babble any inane nonsense about theories that have no scientific or material grounding could be regarded as a potential teacher?

[Bud Struggle]

So anyone who can babble any inane nonsense about theories that have no scientific or material grounding could be regarded as a potential teacher?

No. He made Bear, think. The teacher gave Bear an excuse to use his mind to form cognative thoughts about the existance of the universe. He was prodded and forced to explain his belief system.

I see nothing wrong in that.

[Dr Mindbender]

No. He made Bear, think. The teacher gave Bear an excuse to use his mind to form cognative thoughts about the existance of the universe. He was prodded and forced to explain his belief system.

I see nothing wrong in that.

I could make a similar argument regarding the teapot theory and i would be quite rightly chastised and sacked by my employer. My point is, by your logic any crackpot could make an equivalent suggestion and make one 'think' to a similar degree.

I dont see why creationist beliefs should hold any greater value in a place of learning.

[Demogorgon]

I could make a similar argument regarding the teapot theory and i would be quite rightly chastised and sacked by my employer. My point is, by your logic any crackpot could make an equivalent suggestion and make one 'think' to a similar degree.

I dont see why creationist beliefs should hold any greater value in a place of learning.

A technique good teachers often use is to take what appears to be an outrageous opinion and use it to force students to think in order to come up with a logical answer to it rather than just an emotive one.

Incidentally, I don't see any evidence that this teacher is a creationist at all. Creationism is different from simply believing that God was the cause of the Universe.

Anyway in order to counter such an argument, you have to say that we do not know what caused the Universe and that it being created by God is simply one plausible explanation. As it is possible to come up with other plausible explanations there is no reason to favour the theory that God was the cause.

The best arguments for God avoid the "God of the gaps" trap and this one clearly strolls right into it, so it is not easy to counter so long as you stop and think about it.

[Bud Struggle]

I could make a similar argument regarding the teapot theory and i would be quite rightly chastised and sacked by my employer. My point is, by your logic any crackpot could make an equivalent suggestion and make one 'think' to a similar degree.

I dont see why creationist beliefs should hold any greater value in a place of learning.

You are VASTLY reading into the the OPs post some sort on crreationism--you are VASTLy reading into the OP's post some sort of plan or direction.

As hysterical as the OP is--you are multiplying it exponently.

As a word of caution--think the BEST of people--you won't be disappointed.

[Red Anarchist of Love]

your teacher had a very intresting statement. it made you think. my teacher in high school tried to tell me that a being of love, truth, and humanity. would supourt the Iraq war and formation of isreal now that a bunch of shit.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Be an ass and get him warned by the administration for preaching to the class.

[Raúl Duke]

Be an ass and get him warned by the administration for preaching to the class.

Actually you should keep a watch at your teacher...there are somethings related to religion that he cannot make the class do if it's a public (in the U.S. sense) school.

But this event ain't one of them.

Interestingly, I fortunately never had a high school teacher that discussed/tried to prove a higher power even if they most likely believed in it.

[Bud Struggle]

I fortunately never had a high school teacher that discussed/tried to prove a higher power even if they most likely believed in it.

Lucky you for never having a teacher to challange your comfortable sytem of thinking.

Public school kid?

[Raúl Duke]

Lucky you for never having a teacher to challange your comfortable sytem of thinking.

Public school kid?

Not exactly. I went to private schools in PR (religious schools in the beginning, especially my middle school, and then a secular high school) and to a (secular) charter school in Miami...but to say I didn't have a teacher to challenge my comfortable system of thinking is a mistake.

My Puerto Rican history teacher made us think critically on current affairs around the world and in PR, when I was living there.

There's also my AP government & economics teacher...but not so much.

Also, sometimes curriculum itself challenges one's way of thought. When in biology class I learned the origin of life on Earth that basically became a part why I became atheist later in life.

[Bud Struggle]

Not exactly. I went to private schools in PR (religious schools in the beginning, especially my middle school, and then a secular high school) and to a (secular) charter school in Miami...but to say I didn't have a teacher to challenge my comfortable system of thinking is a mistake.

My Puerto Rican history teacher made us think critically on current affairs around the world and in PR, when I was living there.

There's also my AP government & economics teacher...but not so much.

Also, sometimes curriculum itself challenges one's way of thought. When in biology class I learned the origin of life on Earth that basically became a part why I became atheist later in life.

Nothing wrong with a little AP--but get yourself into an IB program--that'll make you think.

The rest is crap. Good you had a clallange--hope you have more.

[Comrade B]

I had a biology teacher like this two years ago. She showed us creation videos, I started laughing as loud as I could during the videos. Aside from that, I ignored the first one. After the second one I went to the principle.
I recommend this.


Lucky you for never having a teacher to challange your comfortable sytem of thinking.

Public school kid?

This same teacher also yelled at me for 20 minutes for refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, (for those of you outside of the US, the Pledge of Allegiance is a cult like ritual that students are forced to do at the beginning of every school day in the United States starting in Kindergarten. Check out the Wikipedia article on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance), you can find the pledge and some kids giving a heil to the US flag.)

I go to a public school and am in my senior year. I had the option of going to a private school, but told my parents there was no way in hell I would sit through some nearly equally shitty education with a bunch of rich snobs who think they are better than the other locals.

I am proud of the fact that I endured this shitty system. Public schools are just as Christian ruled as anything else. I have a little bit of information about my school for you. Shirts may not bear any images related to alcohol or tobacco, even if you are 18 and legally allowed to smoke. You may not tape anything to the walls unless it is first shown to the principle. The school newspaper is so heavily censored that the word hemp referring to the material making a bracelet was removed from a poem. It serves as the mouth piece of the administration. The children of the administration receive total trust from the administration creating a lovely hierarchy. A good example of this is my friend Bones, now graduated, who was attacked by the son of one of the security guards and beat the kids ass. He was suspended and semi-forced into a different educational program funded by the city. He was also suspended for threatening the principle's son after the principle's son tried to force himself on a girl. The school funds a Christian Club. The school is working on kicking out the drama teacher from the auditorium, most likely because the man is a devout anti-republican and is known to hate the principle. The schools try as hard as they can to recruit children into the military, starting in the 3rd grade. The school plays the national anthem at the beginning of every event. The school is famous for its well funded JROTC program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Reserve_Officers%27_Training_Corps) (JROTC is a program for children interested in the military, it is very much like the Hitler Youth was for the older HY members.) and has recruiters speak at about 3 assemblies a year. The school only forces its dress code "anti-gang" clothing policy (no bandannas, no chains, no graffiti style writing on anything) on the Hispanic population (for example a metal kid weighed down in chains was walking next to a Mexican student a while ago who had a wallet chain, the Mexican student had their chain taken away, the metal kid walked along happily ever after). The school had a five figure camera system installed over the summer last year. The school suspended a teacher for showing a Michael Moore movie. I could go on and on, but I will stop here.

Don't think that being in a public school is easier for the radical left.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Oh, the pledge of allegiance! I had almost forgotten about that ceremony of jingoism. What's worst is not standing to the national anthem at a sports event. People get ticked off. Hey, maybe I have a cramp. :laugh:

[Decolonize The Left]

A teacher at my school recently tried to prove that god exists because if his frisbee was in the middle of the classroom, it would not move without any outside force, and that the universe could not have been set into motion without some outside force.

Your teacher has illogically assumed that the laws which govern our universe govern that which is 'outside' of our universe. This is pure assumption on his part - and you have a right to call him on it.


I explained to him that the chemical compounds in the plastic would eventually break down, and would move even slightly because of deterioration. He shrugged the comment off and moved onto a different topic.

If you intend on debating religious folks often, get used to this reaction.


After class, I told him that he can't quantifiably proove that a higher being exists because it's a matter of how much you're willing to believe that a sky wizard made everything in 7 days, and not a fact that can be proven with empirical evidence. My teacher then went on a 10 minute rant about how he "chose to believe", and that makes it possible for him to proove god exists or some shit.

Your thoughts?

It's difficult to argue the "can't prove" line with highly religious individuals. The reason for this is that we cannot disprove the existence of God either. The 'existence' of God is a null point - it's entirely irrelevant.

The real point is the actual, tangible, effects of religion. History ought to be enough evidence to argue that unjustified belief in an authoritarian system which advocates racism, sexism, patriarchy, torture, and other cruelties is entirely unacceptable.

- August

[Dr Mindbender]

Oh, the pledge of allegiance! I had almost forgotten about that ceremony of jingoism. What's worst is not standing to the national anthem at a sports event. People get ticked off. Hey, maybe I have a cramp. :laugh:




another reason i'm not moving to america.

At least here in Europe it's only international events you have to endure this ridiculous ritual (even then no-one begrudges you if youd rather sit and enjoy your snacks). Unlike America its every damn game.

[Dean]

A teacher at my school recently tried to prove that god exists because if his frisbee was in the middle of the classroom, it would not move without any outside force, and that the universe could not have been set into motion without some outside force.

I explained to him that the chemical compounds in the plastic would eventually break down, and would move even slightly because of deterioration. He shrugged the comment off and moved onto a different topic.

After class, I told him that he can't quantifiably proove that a higher being exists because it's a matter of how much you're willing to believe that a sky wizard made everything in 7 days, and not a fact that can be proven with empirical evidence. My teacher then went on a 10 minute rant about how he "chose to believe", and that makes it possible for him to proove god exists or some shit.

Your thoughts?

:lol: Great response. He shouldn't be wasting class time on irrelevancies.

[Dean]

Lucky you for never having a teacher to challange your comfortable sytem of thinking.

Public school kid?

Bullshit. I had to hear jingoist, militaristic, anti-communist and Zionist trash throughout public school. College, I found, had a lot more teachers that were willing to speak about their own opinions, which included more leftist adn more right wing stuff. Incidentally, there was a lot less of an authoritarian air about the latter's statements - in college, they gave more of an impression that dissent was not completely irrational.

[Raúl Duke]

but get yourself into an IB program

My school didn't have this...:(


Oh, the pledge of allegiance!

In my school it wasn't that "enforced" (i.e. most teachers didn't get angry much and couldn't do anything. Most students did not stand for the allegiance, due to the school's/area's multi-national population; most students were from Latin America.)

[pusher robot]

My school didn't have this...:(



In my school it wasn't that "enforced" (i.e. most teachers didn't get angry much and couldn't do anything. Most students did not stand for the allegiance, due to the school's/area's multi-national population; most students were from Latin America.)

Public schools are constiutionally prohibited from requiring students to participate in the pledge of allegiance.

[Dean]

Public schools are constiutionally prohibited from requiring students to participate in the pledge of allegiance.

That didn't stop them. I even printed out the federal AND state codes permitting "quiet, respectful sitting" during the pledge - all it got me was a trip outside each day. I actually wrote an essay about it, I may post it later.

[pusher robot]

That didn't stop them. I even printed out the federal AND state codes permitting "quiet, respectful sitting" during the pledge - all it got me was a trip outside each day. I actually wrote an essay about it, I may post it later.

All you had to do was call the ACLU. They would have had a lawyer call up the administration and say the magic words "Barnette, Section, 1983." That would have cleared the problem right up, I promise.

[Raúl Duke]

All you had to do was call the ACLU. They would have had a lawyer call up the administration and say the magic words "Barnette, Section, 1983." That would have cleared the problem right up, I promise.

Interesting...

But I was in a charter school...I heard something that people in charter/private schools don't have as much rights (from an ACLU pamphlet)!

[Comrade B]

I am not so into the idea of suing a school... not unless you give the money back to the school afterwards. The money just destroys the publics education.

[pusher robot]

I am not so into the idea of suing a school... not unless you give the money back to the school afterwards. The money just destroys the publics education.

First of all, no school would be crazy enough to let it get to a lawsuit. Second of all, you wouldn't be suing the school itself but the individuals who violated your civil rights.

[Dean]

All you had to do was call the ACLU. They would have had a lawyer call up the administration and say the magic words "Barnette, Section, 1983." That would have cleared the problem right up, I promise.

I emailed them and got no response.

My mother fought for me, though. My first block teacher in 12th grade was nice enough that she didn't make me sit outside; during that year, I only got shuffled out after the vice principles saw me on a few occassions. By halfway through my senior year, they submitted and let me sit in the class. That was 2 and a half years. By that time, I didn't care.

Besides, its not so simple that you can tell a child that they can sit during the pledge. Even if it were the case, the peer pressure would be too strong. It is very base to judge the treatment of our children only by the most deliberate, distinct actions of the faculty.