The Iraqi's dont want to remove Saddam, really? - I think so

[Invader Zim]

Many people on this site have been saying how the Iraqi's all hate the Evil USA and dont want to be liberated...

Then why did Basra Rise up aginst the Facists Troops???

Newspaper Report (non crappy Tabloid to) (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-624002,00.html)

Another just to prove its not just a one off source (http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/news/iraq/article.html?in_page_id=1625&in_article_id=173612)

And one more a bit less detailed one though (http://www.express.co.uk/story.html?story=1&r=31315253653365761)

The Loyalists faithful to Saddam turned the guns on them then and murdered loads of them, apparently.

Out of interest as many of you say that the US/Brit troops diserve to die, do these civillian revolutionarys?

PS i think many of you may need to do a little rethinking on your policys towards Saddam and his government after this.

PPS. I dont support the goddammed imperialist Bush war government, before you say it.

[Just Joe]

i would hardly call it an 'uprising'. and most of us who know the history and situation in Iraq would have expected this sort of thing in Basra a long time ago.

the facts are, the mass surrernders expected have not happened. the mass uprisings expected have not happened. i don't know if its fear of reprisal, or a situation similar to the Soviet Union in 1941; where the people had a choice between a dictator, and an occupying force, and chose the first one.

and this:-

Many people on this site have been saying how the Iraqi's all hate the Evil USA and dont want to be liberated...

Then why did Basra Rise up aginst the Facists Troops???

is actually one of the dumbest statements ever. for all we know, in a country of millions, the 'uprising' could have only been a small number of people.

[Pete]

People are saying it is a popular uprising, but read the whole articles.

A British officer says (of the uprising)

"We really don't have quite enough evidence to be absolutely sure, but this could be the beginning of something."

They have no clue what it is, and are not supporting it as of yet. The Brits do not know what it is, but calling it a popular uprising seems to be wishful thinking.

Source (http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/03/25/uprising/index.html)

[sc4r]

Quote: from Just Joe on 12:29 pm on Mar. 26, 2003
i would hardly call it an 'uprising'. and most of us who know the history and situation in Iraq would have expected this sort of thing in Basra a long time ago.

the facts are, the mass surrernders expected have not happened. the mass uprisings expected have not happened. i don't know if its fear of reprisal, or a situation similar to the Soviet Union in 1941; where the people had a choice between a dictator, and an occupying force, and chose the first one.

and this:-

Many people on this site have been saying how the Iraqi's all hate the Evil USA and dont want to be liberated...

Then why did Basra Rise up aginst the Facists Troops???

is actually one of the dumbest statements ever. for all we know, in a country of millions, the 'uprising' could have only been a small number of people.

It seems very clear from what almost all Iraqi's outside are saying - They do not support Saddam at all but they bitterly resent a foreign invader bombing them. So they have mixed feeling caught between two bad choices.

I'd guess there is also an element of the west overstating how oppressed (and why ) the average Iraqi feels. Life under Saddam for most is probably no different in any material way from life under anyone else; few of us really feel the difference between governments. Sure thay are poorer than they might be without Saddam and sactions but A) you dont really miss what you have never had and B) inside Iraq it is almost ceryainly an accepted truth that the villain of the sanctions situation is not Saddam.

So - Some will rebel, some will not, some will fight americans and then rebel, some will do nothing. Because its an ambivalent situation for them.

I would guess that amost all non shia's will be grateful Saddam has gone in some measure and I would guess that many will nevertheless harbour some anti american feeling especially if they have any personal loss.

If the coalition can persuade those in baghdad that it is safe to rebel my guess is they will. But I doubt there will be such an enthusiasm for it that they will rebel even if it is not relatively safe to do so.

[Just Joe]

latest news.

Iraqi Shi'ite Opposition Says No Uprising in Basra

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...iraq_basra_dc_7 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=574&ncid=574&e=1&u=/nm/20030326/wl_nm/iraq_basra_dc_7)

[Invader Zim]

Of course their is no way of knowing the complete truth, but the reports of the British troops and media would suggest that there was a large uprising (some say massive) and we do know that the Iraqi military opened fire on a large croud of protestors.

Deserts Rats of the 7th Armoured Brigade shelled Saddam loyalists yesterday after reports that they had opened fire on civilians with mortars and "horrific" horizontal artillery fire, according to journalists with British forces on the edge of the city.

Thats all i have to say as Leftits surely we should support this uprising.

(Edited by AK47 at 6:06 pm on Mar. 26, 2003)

[Pete]

Support it, yes. But if it turns pro-America no.

[Just Joe]

AK, i wouldn't take too much notice of what the Brit media or army tells you. its not that the media is too biased, its that they get there information from biased sources.

i tend to believe an opposition group in Iraq to the British Army.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

So typicall rightwinged to act before knowing the full story, take Iraq, has it ever been proofen that that country has ABC-weapons?

Has it ever been proofen that the US has ABC-weapons, yes!, so thinking the views of freedom, democracy and liberty you're pointing your guns the wrong way.

[honest intellectual]

I don't think anyone has said the Iraqis "don't want to be liberated". More like the Iraqis don't want to be bombed. Everyone know Hussein isn't supported by most Iraqis. He represents the Sunni Arabs, who make up only 20% of Iraq's population
Besides, there was not a popular uprising in Basra. I wish there had been, but that was a false report

[Xvall]

As much as I see what you are trying to argue for, Joe; is it nececarry to have Saddam Hussein in your avatar? Just curious.

[Just Joe]

yes it is. to show the stupidity of Nationalism. i'll explain when i have more time.

[Xvall]

No need to. I understand well enough. The fact that at the same time many people will have avatars of George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Etc. Simply because they represent the country that they support.

[hawarameen]

Just Joe, can i ask you if your left or right braincell engaged you to use a picture of saddam as your avatar?

in short - WTF!

[Just Joe]

i did write a long reply totally justifying it, but it got wiped. i've put it elsewhere but to summarise:-

the majority of people in England are against this war. but polls taken last week now say the majority are in favour. the reason for this is this stupid human creation of Nationalism. the Brits are 'rallying round' Blair and the troops just because they have the same passport. i ask you, what message does this send to the Iraqi population? it tells them to do the exact same thing. it draws a line of us vs them. as someone who supports the Iraqi people in there struggle against imperialism, i am using the exact same moronic logic that the population of England is using; rallying round a figure out of blind obidiance. a figure i hate and detest as a racist, inhumane dictator. that is how stupid blind obediance to a nation is.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I think you're being a bit harsh on Mr. Blair. I respect the man as leader of this country. I don't agree with many of his policies, but as a leader I think he is due respect. With this war, I find it much easier to get behind Mr. Blair than I do to get behind Dubya. And Mr. Blair being a good leader is reflected in what you said about the country getting behind him. His speech in the Commons could've swayed even the most stubborn person onto his side. And you could tell all along that Mr. Blair wanted to go the UN route, but with Dubya pushing him with all his power he really didn't have any choice. Even now, it is Mr. Blair who is trying to get the UN back onto the side of the coalition and to get the UN to participate more. I think what Mr. Blair is saying about the humanitarian aid, oil for food, wanting UN involvement etc. is true. I trust him on this one.

Back to the original point, does anyone actually know any Iraqis? If you do, then you'd know that the Iraqi people do indeed want Saddam out. Liklehood is, however, that if the Iraqi you know is living in Iraq, they are only saying they don't want him out because they have to. Comparing the regime to Hitler's Nazi's is no overstatment. Not at all. The people who say they want Saddam are either too scared to say they dont, understandbly, or they have just been indoctinated. When the Iraqi people are freed and their lives changed, any of them who said that they wanted Saddam will have changed their minds. We have some Kurds on the forum, they are the people to ask. A bit biased maybe, but only because they know what Saddam does. I'm waffling now. But my point is the Iraqi people do want him out and those who say they dont are scared or have been indoctrinated.