in response to AK47 sig

[kylie]

ty

[Invader Zim]

the motives for invading Iraq are to gain more power. this is imperialism. so if saddam hussain defends Iraq, he is therefore standing against imperialism.

Really?? What a double standard, you say he stands up to USA imperialism and support him for that, which is true, however as he is the biggest imperialist in the entire middle east as well, like when he invaded Kuwait, to steal their oil. (exactly what the USA is doing now btw.) So he is standing up to imerialism to defend his own.


as for the second part of the quote, that too is correct. in terms of his running of his country he is not a hero, but thats not the point in question. he is a hero in that most leaders would have totally tried to appease the americans, whereas he has stood up for himself and his country.
he is a matyr due to how he is facing death or imprisonment, yet still has stood against western aggresion. Yes this is also true, however you also forget that he is a facist, has commited genocide, destroys the enviroment, has launched chemical weapons, invaded kuwait, broke 17 UN resolutions (i think), stopped free and fair elections, tortures political opponents, set up a extream fudal system, etc (the list goes on and on)

Also as to being a Martyr, you need to be dead for that thas what a martyr is a person translated to glory in death... Saddam is not dead yet... we think.

So a very stupid post from Mazdak.

[kylie]

yk

[Hodgo]

Hitler didnt bow down to Western imperialism either. I suppose this makes him a fucking hero?

[kylie]

yhp'

[Hodgo]

As far as the war goes, he was the aggressor, but he refused to cowtow to Allied imperialism by pissing on the injust Versailles treaty. He was still a fucking monster, and so is Saddam. One isolated incident does not make you a hero. Saddam shouldnt be remembered as a hero, he should be remembered as a rotten prick who's corpse will defile the very dirt its buried in.

[Uhuru na Umoja]

AK-47, it is true that you can only technically be a martyr if you die; however, if you are imprisoned it can fulfil the same purpose. In South Africa Mandela was treated somewhat like a martyr until he was let out. Nonetheless, I do think that too many people in the Middle East will regret the loss of Saddam Hussein. The issue is whether deposing him will actually do anything to restore stability to the region - and of this I have severe doubts.

[Disgustipated]

Quote: from AK47 on 7:06 am on Mar. 25, 2003
the motives for invading Iraq are to gain more power. this is imperialism. so if saddam hussain defends Iraq, he is therefore standing against imperialism.

Really?? What a double standard, you say he stands up to USA imperialism and support him for that, which is true, however as he is the biggest imperialist in the entire middle east as well, like when he invaded Kuwait, to steal their oil. (exactly what the USA is doing now btw.) So he is standing up to imerialism to defend his own.


as for the second part of the quote, that too is correct. in terms of his running of his country he is not a hero, but thats not the point in question. he is a hero in that most leaders would have totally tried to appease the americans, whereas he has stood up for himself and his country.
he is a matyr due to how he is facing death or imprisonment, yet still has stood against western aggresion. Yes this is also true, however you also forget that he is a facist, has commited genocide, destroys the enviroment, has launched chemical weapons, invaded kuwait, broke 17 UN resolutions (i think), stopped free and fair elections, tortures political opponents, set up a extream fudal system, etc (the list goes on and on)

Also as to being a Martyr, you need to be dead for that thas what a martyr is a person translated to glory in death... Saddam is not dead yet... we think.

So a very stupid post from Mazdak.


Iraq went into Kuwait for a bunch of reasons. They went in because they have always maintained that Kuwait was Iraq territory. They went into Kuwait to dispute the border in which the Kuwaits' had built one of the richest oil production facilities on the border, arguably on Iraqi soil. Kuwait was also "slant" drilling into Iraq. Iraq went into Kuwait to dispute a deep water port that they desparately needed and was in dispute.

And finally, they went into Kuwait because the US diplomat told them that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict. While it wasn't a green light for invasion, it certainly wasn't a blinking red light either.

[RedCeltic]

Saddam is not standing against imperialism. He is NOT an anti-imperailist. And, in fact wouldn't be an anti-American if the USA didn't step in against him in 1991.

Do not forget that Saddam himself sent troops to take over a smaller countery. So don't say he's against imperialism, that's far off.

This was said by the so called intelegent Mazdak... lol...

As for Lostsoul... Why you can be happy about death is beyond me, and why people haven't stood up asking for him to rectract his inhumane comments or be banned is also beyond me. I find it disgusting to mock human life in such a way.

The USA is Imperialist... yes true, but Iraq has a policy of Pan-Arabia, and only lacks the resources to carry it out.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 3:32 pm on Mar. 25, 2003
Saddam is not standing against imperialism. He is NOT an anti-imperailist. And, in fact wouldn't be an anti-American if the USA didn't step in against him in 1991.

Do not forget that Saddam himself sent troops to take over a smaller countery. So don't say he's against imperialism, that's far off.

This was said by the so called intelegent Mazdak... lol...

As for Lostsoul... Why you can be happy about death is beyond me, and why people haven't stood up asking for him to rectract his inhumane comments or be banned is also beyond me. I find it disgusting to mock human life in such a way.

The USA is Imperialist... yes true, but Iraq has a policy of Pan-Arabia, and only lacks the resources to carry it out.

Saddam is not standing against imperialism. He is NOT an anti-imperailist. And, in fact wouldn't be an anti-American if the USA didn't step in against him in 1991.

Do not forget that Saddam himself sent troops to take over a smaller countery. So don't say he's against imperialism, that's far off.

This was said by the so called intelegent Mazdak... lol...

My entire argument in a nut shell...

As for Lostsoul... Why you can be happy about death is beyond me, and why people haven't stood up asking for him to rectract his inhumane comments or be banned is also beyond me. I find it disgusting to mock human life in such a way.
erm ive actualy been asking him to take it back and not say such horrid crap since he posted it. I then told him my cousin is currently a techy with the RAF and how he was sent to the gulf, Lostsoul then said. "KKKKAAAAABOOOM AK47 cousin, you've just been liberated

Personally i find this highly offensive and quite upsetting, even more so than before, could you please either ban him or delete that post?

[Moskitto]

Iraq went into Kuwait for a bunch of reasons. They went in because they have always maintained that Kuwait was Iraq territory. They went into Kuwait to dispute the border in which the Kuwaits' had built one of the richest oil production facilities on the border, arguably on Iraqi soil. Kuwait was also "slant" drilling into Iraq. Iraq went into Kuwait to dispute a deep water port that they desparately needed and was in dispute.

And finally, they went into Kuwait because the US diplomat told them that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict. While it wasn't a green light for invasion, it certainly wasn't a blinking red light either.

Hitler started World War 2 for a number of good reasons, France, Denmark and Poland had taken land which actually was German, Germany had it's coal fields run to make a profit for the French, German had to pay money to the allies, It had a large country rearming itself to the east which was making alliances with a traditional enemy to the west, and no one cared that they'd been rearming and reoccupied the Rhineland and united with Austria, so in the same sense it was right for Hitler to invade Europe and it was evil for the US to intervene.

Oh and Israel is imperialist? the last time Israel invaded annother country was in 1967 when all their neighbourghs decided to invade them and they occupied Palestine, Palestine is not a country yet, sure Palestine should be, but considering most middle eastern governments, bar Egypt and Jordan, don't even recognise the right for the Jewish people to even exist and the Israelis offered the Palestinians 90% of what they wanted which most other people thought was a pretty acceptable deal, it's not really surprising that they elected Mr Sharron who, like the Palestinian terrorists, has no intention to solve the problem.

I like the way that gulf war "simulation" shows the hipocracy they have towards this, Iraq uses biological and nuclear weapons on Israel twice, no one cares, US nukes Bhagdad (as they would do) once, and suddenly it's an atrocity and everyone's up in arms.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Moskitto on 9:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2003

Iraq went into Kuwait for a bunch of reasons. They went in because they have always maintained that Kuwait was Iraq territory. They went into Kuwait to dispute the border in which the Kuwaits' had built one of the richest oil production facilities on the border, arguably on Iraqi soil. Kuwait was also "slant" drilling into Iraq. Iraq went into Kuwait to dispute a deep water port that they desparately needed and was in dispute.

And finally, they went into Kuwait because the US diplomat told them that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict. While it wasn't a green light for invasion, it certainly wasn't a blinking red light either.

Hitler started World War 2 for a number of good reasons, France, Denmark and Poland had taken land which actually was German, Germany had it's coal fields run to make a profit for the French, German had to pay money to the allies, It had a large country rearming itself to the east which was making alliances with a traditional enemy to the west, and no one cared that they'd been rearming and reoccupied the Rhineland and united with Austria, so in the same sense it was right for Hitler to invade Europe and it was evil for the US to intervene.

Oh and Israel is imperialist? the last time Israel invaded annother country was in 1967 when all their neighbourghs decided to invade them and they occupied Palestine, Palestine is not a country yet, sure Palestine should be, but considering most middle eastern governments, bar Egypt and Jordan, don't even recognise the right for the Jewish people to even exist and the Israelis offered the Palestinians 90% of what they wanted which most other people thought was a pretty acceptable deal, it's not really surprising that they elected Mr Sharron who, like the Palestinian terrorists, has no intention to solve the problem.

I like the way that gulf war "simulation" shows the hipocracy they have towards this, Iraq uses biological and nuclear weapons on Israel twice, no one cares, US nukes Bhagdad (as they would do) once, and suddenly it's an atrocity and everyone's up in arms.

VIVA MOSKITTO

Moskitto for PRESIDENT.... (no ditch that) CHAIRMAN

[Disgustipated]

There's been shit going back and forth from Iraq and Kuwait for quite some time. I'm not condoning Saddam's behavior or ideals. I am stating that there was some antagonizing on the Kuwaiti's part.

They are not the innocent party you portray them to be. Kuwait was driving the price of oil down against the wishes of OPEC deliberately to hurt the Iraqi economy. This cost Iraq billions.

Comparing Saddam's run into Kuwait and Hitler is not legitimate. Kuwait was part of Iraq and the border has been hotly disputed.

Remember. Britain declared Kuwait independent in 1961. Regardless as to what Iraq thought. One act of imperialism is no better than the other, but I don't think you can compare Nazi Germany to Iraq.

And...when did I say anything about Israel? When did Iraq use nuclear weapons on Israel? I don't understand that paragraph.

[Invader Zim]

And...when did I say anything about Israel? When did Iraq use nuclear weapons on Israel? I don't understand that paragraph.

Its a scenario, it has not really happened.

[RedComrade]

Quote: from Moskitto on 9:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2003

Iraq went into Kuwait for a bunch of reasons. They went in because they have always maintained that Kuwait was Iraq territory. They went into Kuwait to dispute the border in which the Kuwaits' had built one of the richest oil production facilities on the border, arguably on Iraqi soil. Kuwait was also "slant" drilling into Iraq. Iraq went into Kuwait to dispute a deep water port that they desparately needed and was in dispute.

And finally, they went into Kuwait because the US diplomat told them that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict. While it wasn't a green light for invasion, it certainly wasn't a blinking red light either.

Hitler started World War 2 for a number of good reasons, France, Denmark and Poland had taken land which actually was German, Germany had it's coal fields run to make a profit for the French, German had to pay money to the allies, It had a large country rearming itself to the east which was making alliances with a traditional enemy to the west, and no one cared that they'd been rearming and reoccupied the Rhineland and united with Austria, so in the same sense it was right for Hitler to invade Europe and it was evil for the US to intervene.

Oh and Israel is imperialist? the last time Israel invaded annother country was in 1967 when all their neighbourghs decided to invade them and they occupied Palestine, Palestine is not a country yet, sure Palestine should be, but considering most middle eastern governments, bar Egypt and Jordan, don't even recognise the right for the Jewish people to even exist and the Israelis offered the Palestinians 90% of what they wanted which most other people thought was a pretty acceptable deal, it's not really surprising that they elected Mr Sharron who, like the Palestinian terrorists, has no intention to solve the problem.

I like the way that gulf war "simulation" shows the hipocracy they have towards this, Iraq uses biological and nuclear weapons on Israel twice, no one cares, US nukes Bhagdad (as they would do) once, and suddenly it's an atrocity and everyone's up in arms.


Moskitto I beleive the policy of Israeli settlement of Palestinian neighborhoods with Jewish citizens is imperialist, imperialism being the extension of ones power or influence, imperialism does not necessarily at least in my opinion constitute invasions or military expansion...

[Edelweiss]

Saddam Hussein shurely is no anti-imperialist, in the true meaning of it. The CP of Iraq was once the most strong one in the whole middle east, but only until Saddam slaughred them down, and today they are hardly existing.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from RedComrade on 10:38 pm on Mar. 25, 2003

Quote: from Moskitto on 9:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2003

Iraq went into Kuwait for a bunch of reasons. They went in because they have always maintained that Kuwait was Iraq territory. They went into Kuwait to dispute the border in which the Kuwaits' had built one of the richest oil production facilities on the border, arguably on Iraqi soil. Kuwait was also "slant" drilling into Iraq. Iraq went into Kuwait to dispute a deep water port that they desparately needed and was in dispute.

And finally, they went into Kuwait because the US diplomat told them that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict. While it wasn't a green light for invasion, it certainly wasn't a blinking red light either.

Hitler started World War 2 for a number of good reasons, France, Denmark and Poland had taken land which actually was German, Germany had it's coal fields run to make a profit for the French, German had to pay money to the allies, It had a large country rearming itself to the east which was making alliances with a traditional enemy to the west, and no one cared that they'd been rearming and reoccupied the Rhineland and united with Austria, so in the same sense it was right for Hitler to invade Europe and it was evil for the US to intervene.

Oh and Israel is imperialist? the last time Israel invaded annother country was in 1967 when all their neighbourghs decided to invade them and they occupied Palestine, Palestine is not a country yet, sure Palestine should be, but considering most middle eastern governments, bar Egypt and Jordan, don't even recognise the right for the Jewish people to even exist and the Israelis offered the Palestinians 90% of what they wanted which most other people thought was a pretty acceptable deal, it's not really surprising that they elected Mr Sharron who, like the Palestinian terrorists, has no intention to solve the problem.

I like the way that gulf war "simulation" shows the hipocracy they have towards this, Iraq uses biological and nuclear weapons on Israel twice, no one cares, US nukes Bhagdad (as they would do) once, and suddenly it's an atrocity and everyone's up in arms.


Moskitto I beleive the policy of Israeli settlement of Palestinian neighborhoods with Jewish citizens is imperialist, imperialism being the extension of ones power or influence, imperialism does not necessarily at least in my opinion constitute invasions or military expansion...


Israel offered them 90% of what they wanted, most people agreed it was a good compromise, then they started getting suicide bombers, are people actually shocked that the offers they get aren't as good as they were?