An American's Perspecive

[Bud Struggle]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/10f20a6de5.jpg

[Dust Bunnies]

Yeah I was just looking at the date and seeing that the 11 did look like towers.

The attack on the World Trade Center is this generation's (post-Soviet/late 80s) Pearl Harbor. Well, on this 7th anniversary, it seems they have destroyed not only towers and lives but our military too.

[Socialist18]

Whats almost worse than the attacks them self is that most people still believe "terrorists" are responsible.

[danyboy27]

Whats almost worse than the attacks them self is that most people still believe "terrorists" are responsible.

humm, who did it then? snow white and the drarf?

[Socialist18]

The US government stupid.

[danyboy27]

The US government stupid.

i am not gonna answer nothing to that.
seriously.

[JimmyJazz]

http://freshptt.ytmnd.com/

[Socialist18]

i am not gonna answer nothing to that.
seriously.I'm not going to turn this thread into a this versus that but I will say open your eyes and see whats right in front of you.

[JimmyJazz]

It's hilarious to hear someone invoke the work "perspective" in a discussion of 9/11, btw.

It took less than six months (http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm) of U.S. bombing for the number of civilian casualties in Afghanistan to surpass the number of American deaths on 9/11.

I wonder how many brown children die each day due to U.S. food speculators, and U.S. government subsidies which divert corn from food into ethanol, raising world food prices to help "struggling" American farmers (as though anyone in the U.S. is "struggling" compared to the third world).

How long do you think it takes for the number of innocent people killed in the twin towers to be matched in Iraq today?--turns out to be just about a month (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/world/middleeast/18cnd-iraq.html?hp&ex=1153281600&en=e287e7238c3e06e0&ei=5094&partner=homepage).

Many of the 9/11 victims had a quicker death than those tortured at the hands of fascist governments in U.S. client states. ALL of them had quicker deaths than the kids and women who died of malnourishment because their country conformed to the Washington Consensus.

Fuck 9/11. It isn't important whatsoever unless you are a nationalist who values American lives more than others'. The U.S. and its policies probably contribute to more deaths every day. I am fucking sick of 9/11 and I don't ever want to hear about it again.

[spice756]

humm, who did it then? snow white and the drarf?

9/11 Truth Movement
www.prisonplanet.com (http://www.prisonplanet.com)

Well most 90% of his stuff is way off but some stuff are true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisonplanet

[Plagueround]

Forget 9/11. It isn't important or worth remembering whatsoever unless you are a nationalist.

I disagree. It's not as if every person killed in those towers was an unquestioning imperialist, they were human beings just as much as the people we kill in Afghanistan. Both situations are cases of civilian death due to the actions of the world's "elites"; playing a careless game of chess with human lives. Situations like this should not be forgotten simply because you don't agree with American policy. We should not, however, elevate 9/11 above other such tragedies, and we especially should not use it as a rallying beacon for more hatred and war.


9/11 Truth Movement
www.prisonplanet.com (http://www.prisonplanet.com/)

Well most 90% of his stuff is way off but some stuff are true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisonplanet

The best source anyone can come up with for the ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories being truth is a nationalist neo-con radio show host?

[JimmyJazz]

s^I didn't say that the Americans in the twin towers were guilty of anything. Numerically speaking, 3,000 is non-significant.

And frankly, the fact that you picked that one sentence out of my post and replied to it out of context is just the kind of thing that has me so fucking sick of 9/11. It's the from-birth American nationalism that makes even the most progressive Americans constantly on the defense against perceived "anti-Americanism". Charges of anti-Americanism are almost 100% total bullshit, and I think you made my case for that fact rather well. I lashed out against anti-the rest of the world ism, and you thought you somehow saw me to be advocating anti-Americanism. Yet from my post it's obvious that all I did was say that American lives are worth the same and not more.

As for this part:


we especially should not use it as a rallying beacon for more hatred and war.

...of course you know that it will be used for that purpose, since that is in fact the one and only purpose that our corporate government and corporate media relentlessly beat us over the head with 9/11 sentimentality. It is to create public support for their continued accumulation of every last bit of the world's wealth, from us and from everyone else on the globe as well. There is simply no other reason to commemorate those particular 3000 lives (out of the 396 million people who have died worldwide since then) than to serve as a symbolic justification and defense of imperialism.

[Plagueround]

^I didn't that the Americans in the twin towers were guilty of anything. Numerically speaking, 3,000 is non-significant.

And frankly, the fact that you picked that one sentence out of my post and replied to it out of context is just the kind of thing that has me fucking sick of 9/11. It's the from-birth American nationalism that makes even the most progressive Americans constantly on the defense against perceived "anti-Americanism". Charges of anti-Americanism are almost 100% total bullshit, and I think you made my case for that fact rather well. I lashed out against anti-the rest of the world ism, and you thought you somehow saw me to be advocating anti-Americanism. Yet from my post it's obvious that all I did was say that American lives are worth the same and not more.

You'll find no nationalism here, good sir. I picked that one line out of your post because it was the one thing that I disagreed with, or at the very least thought wasn't worded very well...apparently you felt it needed something as well because you edited it for clarification.

The rest I can sympathize with and it wasn't my intent to ruin the context of your post. I was simply pointing out and explaining my reasoning behind what I believe, not intending a direct rebuttal to everything you said.

Forgetting about it is not something I agree with, but neither is parading the event around once a year like it is more important than any other such tragedies, especially when most of them are glossed over, marginalized, or forgotten about.




...of course you know that it will be used for that purpose, since that is in fact the one and only purpose that our corporate government and corporate media relentlessly beat us over the head with 9/11 sentimentality. It is to create public support for their continued accumulation of every last bit of the world's wealth, from us and from everyone else on the globe as well. There is simply no other reason to commemorate those particular 3000 lives (out of the 396 million people who have died worldwide since then) than to serve as a symbolic justification and defense of imperialism.

I know, and it angers me to no end.

[Dean]

I am fucking sick of 9/11 and I don't ever want to hear about it again.

IT is important to put it in context. But it is also damaging to let it lose its character as a result of U.S. nationalism. It was a shameful, useless loss of 2998 lives. Belittling the tragedy serves the reinforce its image as a U.S. issue, when it is really just a human issue.

[JimmyJazz]

You'll find no nationalism here, good sir.

I am not accusing you of anything conscious. However, saying that we should remember 9/11 can only be for one of two reasons:

1. You care about the nationalistic symbolism of that day
2. You value the lives lost as you would value any 3000 lives lost, and think we should equally remember everyone else who dies prematurely

Number 1 is moral bullshit. Probably no one here agrees with it. But, number 2 is completely impractical, and I'm sure that neither you nor I is actually doing it. So the only practical route is, well, to forget 9/11.

I promise I'm not trying to be a belligerent dickwad here. But the gulf between the importance given to those 3000 lives and their actual importance in global terms can't help but give rise to a little incredulity and indignation. And it's precisely that difference--between the attributed importance of 3000 premature deaths, and the actual importance of 3000 premature deaths--that I refer to as "nationalism". Or more precisely, the result of nationalism.


I picked that one line out of your post because it was the one thing that I disagreed with, or at the very least thought wasn't worded very well...apparently you felt it needed something as well because you edited it for clarification.

I added something to make it less ambiguous, not because I ever thought it said what you took it to say. I still don't see how it did...


Forgetting about it is not something I agree with

I'm gonna have to disagree, for reasons already stated.


Belittling the tragedy serves the reinforce its image as a U.S. issue, when it is really just a human issue.

Calling the premature loss of 3000 relatively insignificant isn't belittling it, it is putting it in perspective. It might be "belittling" it from it's sacred place of grossly inflated importance, but it certainly isn't making it any littler than it really deserves to be. At least, I'm attempting to put it into human perspective, devoid of political considerations. If you think I'm failing at that, I welcome corrections to my analysis. But addressing any supposed political subtext to my posts is arguing against a strawman: I am strictly playing a numbers game at the moment.

I would like anyone replying to my first post in this thread to reply to the numbers I gave there. What justification can they give for flying the American flag every 9/11 and not for flying the Afghan flag every March, when the number of civilians killed there surpassed the number of civilians killed here on 9/11? Or just a generic "flag for civilians killed in the conflicts of the world", or something.

And remember, this is still just a numbers game. I am not at all ddressing the fact that it was U.S. bombs which caused those Afghan deaths. I am merely talking about equivalence in terms of the number of deaths (~3000), and the nature of the deaths (violent and premature), between 9/11 and the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.




Edit: 9/11 remembrance really bothers me, so I apologize for any outbursts--but here is my position simply stated:

1. The 3000 particular lives lost on 9/11 are only remembered for political reasons.
2. If you reject the political significance of those events and insist that 9/11 be put into a strictly numerical/human perspective, you will be accused of political motivation.

The first point, I can stomach. It's #2 that makes me a bit insane.

[JazzRemington]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/10f20a6de5.jpg

Never forget what? The day a giant egg attacked the Twin Towers?

[Dros]

The US government stupid.

:lol:

http://www.linenoiz.com/pics/funny/its_a_conspiracy.jpg

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Ignoring the "9/11 truthers..."

I don't think many would disagree with the statement that September 11th was a tragic event perpetrated by religious fundamentalists. All Americans have a memory of that day; however, I want to discuss the way a radical approaches September 11th.

I think we should talk about the lead up to September 11th. Unfortunately too many people think the day existed in a vacuum, that Osama did it just because some Muslims disagree with our "freedom." This is blatantly false, and the actions undertaken by our government and industry in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s need to be brought to the attention of everyone. There are two criminals, the terrorists who killed innocent civilians on 9/11 and the terrorists who supported the death of innocents for economic gain.

[La Comédie Noire]

A tragedy amongst a world of tragedies. The footage they are showing on the history channel is heart breaking. Now if only they showed footage of what U.S. imperialism has done to Iraq and Afghanastan.

The 9/11 truth movement is bull shit btw.

[Faux Real]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f2/Nevar4get.jpg

[redSHARP]

remember, if you don't wave an american flag, you are nothing but a dirty and filthy commie.:rolleyes:

[Sendo]

9/11 what?

Oh yeah, that's when Nixon put Pinochet in power and blew up Allende's pres offices.

[Publius]

The US government stupid.

Wouldn't that, then, make the US government terrorists, meaning terrorists were in fact responsible?

[JimmyJazz]

9/11 what?

Oh yeah, that's when Nixon put Pinochet in power and blew up Allende's pres offices.

Heh, that reminds me of something I should have posted in the "favorite political images" thread.

http://vinpon.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/windowslivewritersomeofthemostpowerfulimagesfromar oundthe-1266a000995-windowslivewritersomeofthemos2.jpg

Don't ask me why, but I have always been intensely curious about the fate and/or background of that bodyguard on the right. Something about the way he looks I guess. (I'm sure he was probably killed in the Estadio Nacional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_de_Chile#Use_during_the_coup) if he didn't die during the coup itself.) :(

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Too bad it happened.

Thankfully, American Imperialism has the means to take the fight to their part of the world in order to prevent them from striking again here.

[bcbm]

Thankfully, American Imperialism has the means to take the fight to their part of the world in order to prevent them from striking again here.

I doubt it. They haven't struck here again because they haven't completed the planning for it yet, if nothing else. If you look at their patterns of attack it seems clear striking at the US is only to be done in a spectacular way, with lots of casualties, booms, etc. If they were actually interested in bringing war here in a less dramatic way, it would be absurdly easy. The wars elsewhere have nothing to do with it. None of the operatives involved in 9-11 would've been affected by such wars and its a safe bet any other sleeper cells around aren't either.

[Plagueround]

Too bad it happened.

Thankfully, American Imperialism has the means to take the fight to their part of the world in order to prevent them from striking again here.

In that they no longer need to travel such a long distance to kill Americans?

[Dean]

Calling the premature loss of 3000 relatively insignificant isn't belittling it, it is putting it in perspective. It might be "belittling" it from it's sacred place of grossly inflated importance, but it certainly isn't making it any littler than it really deserves to be. At least, I'm attempting to put it into human perspective, devoid of political considerations. If you think I'm failing at that, I welcome corrections to my analysis. But addressing any supposed political subtext to my posts is arguing against a strawman: I am strictly playing a numbers game at the moment.

First off, to talk of human life as "insignificant" is wrong, plain and simple. I don't care if we're just talking of 1 person - we should never belittle tragedies that befall others.


I would like anyone replying to my first post in this thread to reply to the numbers I gave there. What justification can they give for flying the American flag every 9/11 and not for flying the Afghan flag every March, when the number of civilians killed there surpassed the number of civilians killed here on 9/11? Or just a generic "flag for civilians killed in the conflicts of the world", or something.

And remember, this is still just a numbers game. I am not at all ddressing the fact that it was U.S. bombs which caused those Afghan deaths. I am merely talking about equivalence in terms of the number of deaths (~3000), and the nature of the deaths (violent and premature), between 9/11 and the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.
I think it is more important to focus on those deaths; they are more current and deal with policies that can be shifted. But that is no reason to shrug off the other deaths, that value judgment is not relevant here.


Edit: 9/11 remembrance really bothers me, so I apologize for any outbursts--but here is my position simply stated:

1. The 3000 particular lives lost on 9/11 are only remembered for political reasons.
2. If you reject the political significance of those events and insist that 9/11 be put into a strictly numerical/human perspective, you will be accused of political motivation.

The first point, I can stomach. It's #2 that makes me a bit insane.
But you are being politically motived. The point is not about putting the attacks in perspective or anything. The point is that they should be removed from politics. The kidnappings by the FARC should be considered bad in an of themselves, regardless of political rationale which may or may not justify the action.

By turning the deaths into an issue which should be compared to greater, more insidious atrocities is to cede the power over the tragedy to the nationalists. It should be said it was a tragedy and further bombings wont help, not it was a tragedy but not as bad as X. There isn't any basis for belittling the tragedy, but we can and should measure the response for its validity.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Too bad it happened.

Thankfully, American Imperialism has the means to take the fight to their part of the world in order to prevent them from striking again here.

Or - more likely - enrage them even further for privatizing their resources and installing puppet governments.

[Mindtoaster]

Or - more likely - enrage them even further for privatizing their resources and installing puppet governments.

Yup, no al-qaeda in iraq before the US invasion....

[Mindtoaster]

First off, to talk of human life as "insignificant" is wrong, plain and simple. I don't care if we're just talking of 1 person - we should never belittle tragedies that befall others.



Just wondering, would the people in the twin towers have been considered workers, middle-class, petite-bourgeois, or just straight up bourgeois?

Does working in a WTC imply that you work for the World Trade Organization? :confused:

[Flash]

It's hilarious to hear someone invoke the work "perspective" in a discussion of 9/11, btw.


I wonder how many brown children die each day due to U.S. food speculators, and U.S. government subsidies which divert corn from food into ethanol, raising world food prices to help "struggling" American farmers (as though anyone in the U.S. is "struggling" compared to the third world).

How long do you think it takes for the number of innocent people killed in the twin towers to be matched in Iraq today?--turns out to be just about a month[/URL].

Many of the 9/11 victims had a quicker death than those tortured at the hands of fascist governments in U.S. client states. ALL of them had quicker deaths than the kids and women who died of malnourishment because their country conformed to the Washington Consensus.

Fuck 9/11. It isn't important whatsoever unless you are a nationalist who values American lives more than others'. The U.S. and its policies probably contribute to more deaths every day. I am fucking sick of 9/11 and I don't ever want to hear about it again.



9/11 was response for our support over the illegal state of Israel over the indigineous Palestinian people, the Gulf War, installation of the Shah dictatorship in Iran, etc..
Basically all our little interventions and support for "Freedom-Fighting" dictators (look at Musharraf) came back to haunt us.
Then the Average Dumbed-down America sits there in front of the Tv saying, "Why do they hate us for our freedom? Islam must be evil". Not realizing what really happened. Having an empire will always has its negative effects.




The best source anyone can come up with for the ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories being truth is a nationalist neo-con radio show host?

Alex Jones is no Neo-Conservative. I have been listening to him forever. Paleo-Conservatism is an opposite of Neo-Conservatism. Just read any of Pat Buchanan's books to find that out.

Paleos = Minority in Republican Party, against Imperialism.
Neos = ruling class that accepts globalization and Imperialism.

And if you're really interested in learning about Osama Bin Laden or 9/11 conspiracy theories, I advise you to go to Google Video and type in "Fabled Enemies". Its about an hour long and will make you re-think what you know about 9/11.

[RGacky3]

911 was a horrible loss of life, but the fetishizing of it and using it as a political tool is discusting and disrespectful. It is like any other tradgedy, horrible. It does'nt effect my daily life really, I did'nt loose any loved ones, so pretty much I've forgoten it, the same way I forgot the earthquake in China that killed more than 60,000 or the Tsumani in Indonesia. The Sad thing about 911 is it should have woken everyone up to what Imperialism and American Foreign policy produces, but it did'nt.

to anyone that believes in any 911 conspiracy theories, and think the American government could pull that off, your idiots, bill could'nt even pull off getting a secret blowjob. I've seen the videos, and they are rediculous, competely ignoring common sense, and should be laughed at.


Just wondering, would the people in the twin towers have been considered workers, middle-class, petite-bourgeois, or just straight up bourgeois?

All three, and that should'nt matter.


9/11 what?

Oh yeah, that's when Nixon put Pinochet in power and blew up Allende's pres offices.

Something that almost every American History book conveniontly ignores.


Thankfully, American Imperialism has the means to take the fight to their part of the world in order to prevent them from striking again here.

They do have the means to stop them from striking again ... LEAVE THEIR COUNTRIES ALONE!!! If you pull a dogs ear eventually he's gonna bite you, an the answer is'nt pulling it harder.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/10f20a6de5.jpg
I'm confused. Who is the target audience of this image? The American military, or Al-Qaeda?

'Cause, you know, both groups agree that 9/11 is an important date which inspires them to "Never forget - never surrender."

[Robespierre2.0]

I don't care who perpretrated the 9/11 attacks; it is irrelevant.
Our government was rotten to the core before then, and it's still rotten now.
Now, civilian casualties are almost never a good thing, but I think Ward Churchill was spot on when he called the occupants 'Little Eichmanns'.

[Pawn Power]

The patriotic importance around "9/11" is not an "American" perspective but a white, middle class American perspective. What is this to the downtrodden living withing the US? For example, what does this attack on American "homeland" mean to American Indians who view the land as stolen to begin with? Or do poor blacks living who are basically under attack by their "America" daily? Do we think that all people within the US view that attack as directed towards them?

[Bud Struggle]

I don't care who perpretrated the 9/11 attacks; it is irrelevant.
Our government was rotten to the core before then, and it's still rotten now.
Now, civilian casualties are almost never a good thing, but I think Ward Churchill was spot on when he called the occupants 'Little Eichmanns'.

As equally spot on as when I say the occupants of Ward Churchill's are "Little Eichmanns."

Everyone has to be judged for themselves--not in mass.

[RGacky3]

I think Ward Churchill was spot on when he called the occupants 'Little Eichmanns'.

If thats your perspective, don't ***** when Americans kill innocent civilians in Afghanistan, they are just little Osamas.

It does'nt matter what class they come from, life is life.


The patriotic importance around "9/11" is not an "American" perspective but a white, middle class American perspective.

Not even that, more like an elite perspective, for most people, poor and rich, its an emotional thing, proded on by the elite.

[Bud Struggle]

If thats your perspective, don't ***** when Americans kill innocent civilians in Afghanistan, they are just little Osamas.

It does'nt matter what class they come from, life is life.


The point you made RGacky was the point I was trying to make--I just kind of make it a bit too snarky. :rolleyes:

Life is life.

[Comrade Looter]

Terrorism isn't a group nor an entity, it is an act of causing terror on a population. "Terrorist" simply refers to someone who prefers to utilize Terrorism as a means of a weapon, and Terrorism is a very effective weapon at that (See Iraq War). Now, when it comes to WHO utilized Terrorism as a weapon against the United States on 9/11/01 - Some believe it was our government, to sway the population into going to a war in a foreign country (See Vietnam), or if it was "Osama Bin Laden" (Mythical Figure) and his gang of Rag-Tag "Terrorists" that attacked us.

[Oneironaut]

... or if it was "Osama Bin Laden" (Mythical Figure) and his gang of Rag-Tag "Terrorists" that attacked us.

wait Osama Bin Laden doesn't really exist? I am sort of confused that you reference him as a mythical figure.

[Socialist18]

Wouldn't that, then, make the US government terrorists, meaning terrorists were in fact responsible?Yes it does, but that doesn't make them Muslim terrorists with box cutters.

Its important we see who really done 911 because the US has declared war on Afghanistan and Iraq because of the alleged Muslim terrorist attacks. They have used it as a precept to war against innocent people in the name of the almighty dollar/oil in the guise of "bringing democracy to these lands."

I really don't get it, a lot of you people see how evil the US government is in lots of other areas and topics but you fail to see that they are not only capable of doing 911, they in fact did.

Google "operation northwoods" to see that they are capable of killing innocent lives for a precept to war with another country, its de-classified these days but it speaks volumes about the capabilities of the US government.

When I told my family that 911 was an inside job they called we a nut job, a wacko etc but after showing them a bunch of documentaries on it and presenting verifiable facts to them they were awakened to the fact that it was in deed an inside job, it wasn't easy to convince them but I just showed them the evidence and they came around to it.

I don't mind at all being called a wacko because I am standing up for the truth and if its unpopular to believe the truth then so be it, I shall walk alone.

[Robert]

Were the planes' pilots in on the conspiracy?

[RGacky3]

I really don't get it, a lot of you people see how evil the US government is in lots of other areas and topics but you fail to see that they are not only capable of doing 911, they in fact did.

OF COARSE THEY ARE CAPABLE OF TAKING INNOCENT LIFE, but not like that, not the way 911 did, it would take secrecy in so many sectors, it would be almost impossible to covor up, and there are much much easier to make a precept some other way. If you believe that the US did all that, just to make a precept for war, your WAY WAY WAY over estimating the US government, no one could do that and keep it secret, and WAY WAY underestimating the US governments judgement.

Not only are you a wacko for believing that stuff, you lack common sense.

THe US government (and any government for that matter) is capable of huge amounts of evil, but they arn't that stupid.

[Socialist18]

were the planes' pilots? I don't get it. how can planes be pilots?

[Socialist18]

OF COARSE THEY ARE CAPABLE OF TAKING INNOCENT LIFE, but not like that, not the way 911 did, it would take secrecy in so many sectors, it would be almost impossible to covor up, and there are much much easier to make a precept some other way. If you believe that the US did all that, just to make a precept for war, your WAY WAY WAY over estimating the US government, no one could do that and keep it secret, and WAY WAY underestimating the US governments judgement.

Not only are you a wacko for believing that stuff, you lack common sense.

THe US government (and any government for that matter) is capable of huge amounts of evil, but they arn't that stupid.This is a typical narrow minded response.

[RGacky3]

It may be typical, because typically people use common sense. If the US government did that, they are retarded for trying it (pretty much killing a mosquito with a cannon), and ingenious for keeping it secret, apart from a few renegade collage students, who are still alive .... hmmm .... Interesting, I guess the government can pull that off, but they can't out the college students, looks like they are more catious than the black panther leaders.


were the planes' pilots? I don't get it. how can planes be pilots?

HE MEANS THE PLANES PILOTS, meaning the pilots that fly the planes, idiot.

[JimmyJazz]

Life is life.

An easy slogan to repeat. I await your thread about Afghani civilians.

[Comrade Looter]

wait Osama Bin Laden doesn't really exist? I am sort of confused that you reference him as a mythical figure.
There is alot of widespread controversy over Osama Bin Laden actually existing, especially since one of the key Post-9/11 videos was called out to be false, because the Osama Bin Laden in that video had darker skin, a wider nose, and was slightly shorter - It was a proposed CIA cover-up, so maybe he did infact exist at one point in time, but he doesn't any longer. I believe he was just a Martyr the United States uses to justify it's initial invasion of Afghanistan / Military actions against the Taliban.

[Flash]

It was a proposed CIA cover-up, so maybe he did infact exist at one point in time, but he doesn't any longer.

Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan claimed Bin Laden died by assasination from Omar Sheikh.
Others say Bin Laden has always been a CIA agent and thats why he can never be 'caught'.

[Socialist18]

HE MEANS THE PLANES PILOTS, meaning the pilots that fly the planes, idiot.No shit wanker!:rolleyes:

[Red Anarchist of Love]

that's the bullshit they used to get Americans to supourt the creation of a police state and the invasion of Iraq and afganistan
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f2/Nevar4get.jpg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/10f20a6de5.jpg

[Red Anarchist of Love]

and don't get me started on the formantion of the Department of Homeland Security

[Red Anarchist of Love]

although in my 6th grade class when i herd about the attack i was happy they they hit the pentagon

[valientejv]

A death is a death equally important and sad. What truely sickens me is how people make money selling things that say "remember" and "a nation of one" because it isn't the people who make these things for themselves. IT basically seemed and still seems to be "fashion" buying twin tower things and being partiotic.:(

[Socialist18]

I know why you are restricted your fucking bat shit insane.
Yeah, and you're Mr. open minded revolutionary right? Sure thing!



A death is a death equally important and sad. What truely sickens me is how people make money selling things that say "remember" and "a nation of one" because it isn't the people who make these things for themselves. IT basically seemed and still seems to be "fashion" buying twin tower things and being partiotic.:(Thats true, although in the 911 truth movement all the information and documentaries are provided free of charge, as in downloadable films and flyers to print.

[Socialist18]

Theres a diffrence between being open minded and needing mental help.
You're the same as everyone else who believes the official story, you are very quick to attack the messenger rather than trying to debunk the message. Its a tactic of diversion, to make the messenger out to be a fool or a loonie rather than pay attention to the message itself.

The alternative version of 911 can't be debunked because it is the truth and a truth is a truth, if something happened a certain way then something happened a certain way.

But never mind, you just go right ahead with believing lies if you like.

[Red Anarchist of Love]

can people please stop attaching each other it dosen't make you look any better to put some one else down

[Socialist18]

Right........................ You are fucking nuts.
You just proved my point once again.

[Jazzratt]

9/11 conspiracy theories are stupid. Really fucking stupid and I refuse to even entertain them until they produce some sort of evidence for the following claims that are present (explicitly and implicitly) in their arguments:



Given that the US government is made up of more than just the very tip top echelons but also the various statesmen, deputies and other hangers-on how was it that the entire conspiracy has managed to remain within this one group with not one person involvedsaying anything?
Related to the above - how is it that a a conspiracy that has been kept secret from the people, the media (independent and mainstream, worldwide), government officials who have spoken out against the war (including, recently, one of Bush's own ex-advisors) and just about every other person under the sun has been unveiled by certifiable right-wing loonies who make grainy films using stock footage?
Given that the majority of scientific opinion is against them, what makes the "physicists" that are occasionally quoted (if that, often it's just "scientists") actually trustworthy?
Similarly, why is it generally that these theories come from basement-dwelling jackasses and not, for example, trained mechanical or structural engineers?

Beyond that I'd love to know why such a conspiracy is necessary. Capitalism can perpetuate itself openly thanks to the years of indoctrination it has behind it - the bourgeoisie have no use for these conspiracies when they can be just as successful in boardrooms. Taking full advantage of the effects of this attack (jingoism, shock and so on) is not evidence of being the cause - there are, after all opportunists. I'd also like to know what conspiracy theorists find unbelievable about the actual events given that a lot of previous american actions (the first Gulf War, for example) had already enraged many islamic communities, Bin Laden was already rolling about in CIA money (and he was rich and well connected anyway), that highjackings are not unprecedented and that the planes flerw into the buildings.

So tell me, go on. Answer all of the above reasonably and logically and then we can have the discussion. Until then you're on par with the loonies that believe that the NWO is on the brink of taking over.