wisdom is the problem

[danyboy27]

i was thinking about it, and at the end, neither socialism or capitalism are the real problems of this world, the problem is society itself, its lack of maturity and wisdom.

[Dystisis]

Can you try and explain with some more debth exactly what you mean?

By wisdom, do you mean scientific or philosophical progress? What kind of wisdom are you referring to?

[danyboy27]

what i am trying to say is, that the economical system is not the problem but the maturity of the population. currently in modern countries what making our society evil is not capitalism itself but our lack has a society to take mature decision and to govern ourselve properly.

its beccause of this lack of maturity and social awareness that permitted buisness to act in illegality, to fraud, to exploit children, its our lack of maturity that allow governement to avoid supporting the poor or social program. there is nothing bad in free market, but beccause we are not mature enought has a society, we did nothing to stop the bad thing that happened in that society.

seriously, if society had a better social awarness/maturity , we would stand up against those terribles things that are happening, and there would be not thounsand of people during protest but millions to denounce those terrible things.

go on, chat with the avearge guy, look if he actually care his clothes where made by chinese children, look if he care thousand of buisness dont respect the environnement.

us, has a whole, lack of maturity.

[Socialist18]

People have been taught that "I can't change anything - What do you expect me to do" from birth so its not at all surprising to me than people lack interest and knowledge of whats really going on in the world and the solutions to our problems. People are primarily materialist (not in the Marx sense either) consumers today and have no concern for politics, they are content with their job, family, possessions and don't want to be concerned with anything else. The government, via the media, is to blame for this mentality in my opinion, its mass brain washing on a scale just short of religious delusion. People genuinely believe that most people in government are looking out for our needs and concerns and don't see any reason to worry about it nor take part in it them selves, sure theres the few that see politicians as money hungry self servers, theres those that hate them all and theres those that just don't care either way.
If we ever want to change things and bring about a socialist state we need to educate the masses, we need to swamp them with propaganda (truthful propaganda) to counter the propaganda thats been fed to them their whole life. Propaganda is a powerful weapon and we need to start using it to its fullest extent for the benefit of mankind.

[Dean]

what i am trying to say is, that the economical system is not the problem but the maturity of the population. currently in modern countries what making our society evil is not capitalism itself but our lack has a society to take mature decision and to govern ourselve properly.
You don't think that the shift from an economic mode where production is meant for humanity to one where it is meant for capital has anything to do with this "immaturity"?


its beccause of this lack of maturity and social awareness that permitted buisness to act in illegality, to fraud, to exploit children, its our lack of maturity that allow governement to avoid supporting the poor or social program. there is nothing bad in free market, but beccause we are not mature enought has a society, we did nothing to stop the bad thing that happened in that society.
You can say that, but that doesn't disagree with Marxist theories, specifically those suggesting that revolution is a gradual change (or maturity) in society due to social and economic organization...


seriously, if society had a better social awarness/maturity , we would stand up against those terribles things that are happening, and there would be not thounsand of people during protest but millions to denounce those terrible things.
Social awareness is society looking inward, which is communist. It is the associative mode of social existence that socialists strive for, and with your regard for "social awareness," you describe the conditions and fundamental psychological standards for communism to a 'T.'


go on, chat with the avearge guy, look if he actually care his clothes where made by chinese children, look if he care thousand of buisness dont respect the environnement.
You think people don't care? What does he tell you when you say that to him? A dismissive comment no doubt. And that is precisely because he does care. He feels implicated in the creation of such problems, and also impotent in regard to fixing them. That is a terrible feeling, that something very basic and common that you do is negative, yet you have no recourse. So people shut the information out. It's not disinterest, it is a mechanism by which people attempt to maintain sanity; unfortunately, it creates deep contradictions and neuroses in people.

A lot of people here would say that he shouldn't care, that it's not his problem. My friend Ulster Socialist holds this opinion for instance - the concept is that there are distinct economic forces responsible for that oppression, and since you or I are not directly involved in them, we have no responsibility. I think this is totally wrong and short-sighted, though. We very much should be concerned with what economic activities and disparities we are involved in, and it is fundamental to hold responsibility for the economic consequences of ones' actions as a core value for socialists. We are basically interested in social and economic change, therefore we should embrace and encourage all concern for the equitable reorganization of economic relations.


us, has a whole, lack of maturity.
I think you need to get that attitude out of your head. I don't know exactly what you mean, but I think it is the common insult against someone for lacking "adult-like" traits. But that is irrelevent for any serious psycho-theory. It would be accurate to say that man is not fully actuated in our current conditions, but this opens up more questions than it solves; it points to more complexities than it penetrates. It is fundamental to focus on analysing these issues to find their core, and to say that society's problems are basically "immaturity" is very vague and ineffective.