Marx predicted US revolution?

[Black Sheep]

Just a quickie.. i was reading ABC on anarchism, and Berkman says
(quote in free translation):


The more intense the exploitation,the larger is the indignation of the people [...].That explains why the flames of the social revolution swept over Russia,the most tyrannical and backwards country,and not the US, where the industrial development had reached its peak -despite the well-documented proof of Marx for the opposite.edit:
Oh,damn- maybe he means that Marx had proved that US's industrial development had not reached its peak,and not the revolution part?But that doesn't make sense..
I'm confused!Any help from someone that has read it?

[JimmyJazz]

I can't off the top of my head remember any of them, but Marx made a few comments about the working class, slavery and racism in the U.S., and Engels repeatedly predicted that it would be the first country to have a socialist revolution because he believed it had the most advanced capitalist economy.

Assuming no one replies to this thread with an answer, you might try looking up "united states" in the index of the Marx-Engels Reader or Karl Marx: Selected Writings or related book. Or, check out It Didn't Happen Here: Why Socialism Failed in the United States (http://books.google.com/books?id=3y1cAMsYzmQC&dq=it+didn%27t+happen+here+socialism+united+states&pg=PP1&ots=RuJB0ZRKEN&sig=5ABySwrNDbDEvV0JUhNdhkcn6Xw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result), which is where I read most of the Engels quotes I just mentioned. (But you should know that the authors are comparative political scientists, not Marxists).

[KurtFF8]

There's actually a quote of Marx saying that he didn't believe that violent revolution was necessary in England or the US (I believe he also said US). I've heard someone explain this quote by claiming he was just saying this (It may have been from a speech) because he was in England and didn't want the authorities to get on him, but then again, maybe he truly didn't think violent revolution was necessary.

Obviously either way, socialism hasn't happened in either country yet though of course.

[The Douche]

I'm pretty sure berkman's comment is in relation the marxist (well, at least, orthodox marxist) idea that the nations with the most advanced industry will have the most advanced proletariat and will therefor be the first to have socialist revolution.

But really, its kind of a vulgar interpretation of Marx in my opinion as a non-marxist.

[Yehuda Stern]

cmoney is quite correct. I would be very hard pressed to believe, without a quote, that Marx or Engels said that the US would have a revolution first because they are more advanced (truth is, if we factor in the South, the US at the time was far more backwards than most advanced capitalist nations, nevermind Britain).

About a non-violent revolution - the explanation given here is false. Marx and Engels said that the revolution in Britain and the USA might not be violent because the state was still not as heavily armed as other capitalist states. However, since the interwar period, that has obviously changed.

[KurtFF8]

Well the quite I was talking about, he even said they might be able to do it democratically. I think he would have a little different view of that if he had the ability to have seen how capitalism actually progressed since he said that though of course.

[robot lenin]

It depends what kinda democracy you mean, cuz parliamentary democracy is controlled by the bourgeoisie, but I think that Marx hoped that a revolution would be 'democratic', since the majority of the working class would want it, and revolting would be a form of direct democracy. Lenin and the Bolsheviks were different tho, what with the vanguard party etc etc.

Well thats my way of thinking anyways :cool:

[BIG BROTHER]

Well Marx though that in the US the democracy would make a peaceful transition to socialism possible, but then again during Marx's time the notion of imperialism hadn't developed yet. And imperialism lets the bourgeoisie of the imperialist country to "buy off" the working class according to Lenin.