Fascism is not evil, says mayor of Rome

[Chapaev]

The remarks by this public official are reprehensible. For the mayor of Italy's largest city to express sympathy towards a morally bankrupt and discredited ideology is a treasonous act that besmirches modern Italy's anti-fascist heritage. Fascism has been responsible for unleashing an unprecedented catastrophe in Italy. Neo-fascist scum have perpetrated deadly terrorist attacks including the Piazza Fontana bombing and the massacre at the Bologna train station.


http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-09-08_108261650.html

Rome Mayor Gianni Alemanno on Monday failed to quell polemics over his statement that though Fascism's racial laws were an ''absolute evil'', the movement itself was not.

Alemanno made his remarks at the end of a five-day visit to the Holy Land and on his return to the capital said the polemics had been overblown by the press.

Speaking at a ceremony marking the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Rome, Alemanno tried to explain his position by observing that while he condemned ''without hesitation'' the antidemocratic and repressive nature of Fascism, this did not stop him from ''paying homage to those who fought and died for that cause in good faith''.

The mayor's explanation was not enough for the head of the Rome Jewish Community, Riccardo Pacifici, who pointed out that ''in Alemanno's speech there was no explicit condemnation of Fascism. I think we will be talking about this for some time''.

''I believe that this polemic should be approached in a constructive way. I think it should be made clear that there is no such thing as good Fascism and bad Fascism. This ideology was directly responsible for the racial laws,'' he added.

This view was echoed by many center-left critics who claimed that with his stance Alemanno had remained faithful to his neo-Fascist roots.

Alemanno once was a leader of the Italian Social Movement (MSI) youth federation. The MSI later became the National Alliance when it moved into the political mainstream and is now part of the fledgling People of Freedom Party of Premier Silvio Berlusconi. Pacifici also expressed his hope that former Rome mayor Walter Veltroni, now head of the opposition Democratic Party (PD), would reconsider his decision to quit the city-sponsored foundation to create a Shoah museum in Rome. Veltroni, who helped set up the foundation while in office and because of this was allowed to remain even though his post on the board was taken by the current mayor, said he would leave in protest over Alemanno's remarks.

Alemanno had also expressed his hope that Veltroni would stay in the association.

The former Rome mayor, however, made his resignation official with a letter to Pacifici in which he said that it was ''impossible'' for him to remain because of Alemanno's ''extremely grave'' statements and his successor's ''attempt to use a double standard in evaluating Fascism''.

[Holden Caulfield]

not suprising at all, Berlusconi said that Di Canio's nazi salute to nazi flag waving lazio fans wasn't a fascist gesture in the slightest

[Vendetta]

Good bloody god.

[JimmyJazz]

This story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7506609.stm) makes a bit more sense now:


Prosecutors said those [G8 protesters] arrested were beaten, made to sing fascist songs, and that some women were stripped naked, had their heads shaved and were threatened with rape.I wonder if Italy as a whole is veering right or if it is just a movement?

[Comrade B]

This is why I said that I support political officials executions in the discussion of if killing can be justified.

[Ismail]

Italy has never really thrown off fascism from collective consciousness. A lot of people in Italy praise Mussolini for the massive economic development and 'independent' foreign policy (they ignore the Italian Social Republic, of course) that Mussolini had. Hell, back in the early 30's, fascism across the world was popular. FDR was impressed with Mussolini's economic gains used by merging the state and corporations, so he imitated them in lesser ways.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/understanding_fascism.htm
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm
(The latter one ends in the 1950's, so it isn't like "ZOMG BUSH IS A FASCIST" or whatever)

Both should be read IMO.

[Zurdito]

this doesn't surprise me seeing as thisis the same mayor who gave the fascist salute on the stairs pf the town hall when he was elected. berluscon is reported to have exclaimed " we are the new falange"

[apathy maybe]

While I too am generally disgusted by fascists and by idiots who think that it is a good thing, I am going to veer off into philosophy land for a bit.

What is "evil"? Haven't we moved (collectively, as materialists), beyond notions of "good" and "evil"?

[Abluegreen7]

While I too am generally disgusted by fascists and by idiots who think that it is a good thing, I am going to veer off into philosophy land for a bit.

What is "evil"? Haven't we moved (collectively, as materialists), beyond notions of "good" and "evil"?

Let them think it is a good thing. We murdered the Facist regieme once and we can do it again. Rally your fellow Communist and create some more Communists.

We will show these up coming facists who we are.

[communard resolution]

Aside from this mayor's being a complete scumbag, is Pacifici correct in stating that Italy's racial laws directly grew out of the Fascist ideology?

I thought Italian Fascism had no racial agenda and the racial laws were a concession to Nazi Germany when Mussolini allied with Hitler? Correct me if I'm wrong here, it's just that I keep getting mixed messages about Italian Fascist ideology.

[Incendiarism]

Don't fascists tend to look for scapegoats to justify rule?

In any case, that's fucked. Did anybody even reproach him about it, or is it all fine and dandy to the italian people?

[communard resolution]

I'm sure it isn't. There's still a lot more communists in Italy than in most European countries.

[Ismail]

I'm sure it isn't. There's still a lot more communists in Italy than in most European countries.This is true. This is why Eurocommunism ("Revolution is outdated, parliamentary road to socialism is the way to go") started first in Italy (thanks to Palmiro Togliatti with support from Khrushchev) before any place else and there have been plenty of Communists in Italian cabinets from 1945-1990's. The partisans who executed Mussolini were Communists.

Of course modern 'Communists' in Italy are more populist social democrats and not actually the real thing.

[dread...]

So a fascist refuses to condemn fascism as evil?! Hold the front page!:D

[Coggeh]

While I too am generally disgusted by fascists and by idiots who think that it is a good thing, I am going to veer off into philosophy land for a bit.

What is "evil"? Haven't we moved (collectively, as materialists), beyond notions of "good" and "evil"?
True , however on a scientific basis away from morals to judge whats good and bad basically we must ask whats best for society as a whole ,putting it simply socialism good fascism bad .

[Colonello Buendia]

not suprising at all, Berlusconi said that Di Canio's nazi salute to nazi flag waving lazio fans wasn't a fascist gesture in the slightest
thank christ i support Roma then :P this doesn't surprise me at all. Berlusconi was quoted saying that all in all Mussolini wasn't bad. the neo fascists are destroying italy from the inside, it tears me up.

[Colonello Buendia]

Aside from this mayor's being a complete scumbag, is Pacifici correct in stating that Italy's racial laws directly grew out of the Fascist ideology?

I thought Italian Fascism had no racial agenda and the racial laws were a concession to Nazi Germany when Mussolini allied with Hitler? Correct me if I'm wrong here, it's just that I keep getting mixed messages about Italian Fascist ideology. pretty much right. mussolini believed italians were the best race, but he didn't care about religion

[Abluegreen7]

pretty much right. mussolini believed italians were the best race, but he didn't care about religion

And do we remmember what happened to Mussolini? Inverted Hanging.

[jaffe]

pretty much right. mussolini believed italians were the best race, but he didn't care about religion

Italian = not a race.

however there a few boneheads who believe that northern italians are more white than southern italians. :laugh:

[RadioRaheem84]

Italian Fascism had good characteristics but its negative ones overshadowed it. I am not as reactionary when I hear people talk about the history of fascism. Fascism means "bundle", which was meant to be a collective of workers, bosses and revolutionaries into a single union. Fascism was an off shoot of syndicalism, only it incorporated nationalism into its doctrine.

The nationalist, mildly racist, violent aspects of Fascism are what I despise. But it's economic model was pretty successful and popular with the people.

Fascism, in its original context, (not the Pinochet right wing banana republic dictator fashion) was a very revolutionary movement that attracted hundreds of intellectuals and economists from the left.

It was a natural extension of people not wanting liberalism or communism to operate in their nation. It was the anger people felt from being ignored by their government in favor of rich industrialists, foreign investors and immigrants.

It was obviously an angered version of right wing populism that wanted neither free market liberalism nor communism/socialism. I mean I think we can see a resurgence of it soon in the West. It's already happening with some Islamic movements in the East.

[JimmyJazz]

this doesn't surprise me seeing as thisis the same mayor who gave the fascist salute on the stairs pf the town hall when he was elected.

Meh, that's pretty much universal according to Songun Blog (http://songun-blog.blogspot.com/).

http://bp1.blogger.com/_LT0cq3F-biU/Rj5rszbOeII/AAAAAAAAABE/cVzo1IyKlSE/s320/japnazi.jpg

[Sendo]

Italian = not a race.

however there a few boneheads who believe that northern italians are more white than southern italians. :laugh:

Ummm a race is whatever you want it to be.

You could say Indo-European, Semites, Austro-nesians, Far Easterners, Amerindians,

Or you could say Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid

OR you could say Hispanic, white, black, Pacific Islander, Asian (like Turkish/Arab/Hindi/Korean??)

IT's all bullshit.


Also, Southern Italians (Siciliy area) are "more black". My father is only 50% but he is really really dark. Sicilians have Phoenician and Arab and African blood mixed in. All Euros have traces of Negro blood, but I'd assume Southern Italians have more.

[RadioRaheem84]

Hispanic is not a race. It is an ethnicity. A Hispanic of Dominican origin like Sammy Sosa is not the same race as an Argentinan like Alexis Bledel. One is black, the other is white. Hispanic is their ethnic background. It's more of a cultural term. Only in the US is it wrongly used as a racial description.



Also, Southern Italians (Siciliy area) are "more black". My father is only 50% but he is really really dark. Sicilians have Phoenician and Arab and African blood mixed in. All Euros have traces of Negro blood, but I'd assume Southern Italians have more.



Oh come on, not the Moor myth thing! Sicilians and Souther Europeans are not mixed with African blood. If you want to get technical, there might be a North African Berber admixture, but then again Berbers were caucasian too. In fact many people in the Western Arab world were caucasians before invaded by Arabs (real Arabs come from the Arabian peninsula). The Phoenicians and the Assyrians were white people. That is why there are a lot of white Arabs in the Lebanon/Syria area.