self-victimisation, a disease of leftist

[danyboy27]

i dont think this apply to ALL leftist, but a shitload of guy from the left i seen and met seem to have what i call the self victimization syndrome.

some of them seem to have problem to progress in their own lives, and beccause of that they blame society for everything bad that happening to them, they declare to be the victim of society, that this is beccause the system is wrong that they cant progress. beccause they victimize themself, they feel its ok to not progress anyway, and turn themselve to the left beccause they feel so miserable that they think that the only think that could eventually save them, it give them hope, like god.

i admit i have been like that when i was at school, and when i started to work, i realized a shitload of things about life i didnt realized back then, and i recovered my dignity.

[Sendo]

So you believe that humanity is merely swathes of stupid and lazy and useless masses and that the truly select few will rise to prosperity with hard work? Our system obviously does not accomodate everyones' success.

Remember the mantra of education, education, education. Mortgage everything for a chance to get into that nice Ivy school. Guess what? Everyone else is looking to maximize their education, too. Well, not their education per se, but their certificates, yeah. Hard work will not fix the economy. Even if we had universal college education (which would be great, don't get me wrong) we'd still have to leave most people behind and leave them to wallow in poverty as wage-slaves.

People who "give up" are just apathetic b/c they are not yet revolutionary. Most people don't like the rat race and not everyone thinks it's worth trying from a cost-benefit analysis. It's easy to be white and middle-class and then say that others are simply lazy.

[spice756]

People who "give up" are just apathetic b/c they are not yet revolutionary. Most people don't like the rat race and not everyone thinks it's worth trying from a cost-benefit analysis. It's easy to be white and middle-class and then say that others are simply lazy.



No I think what he was saying is because sociaty is competitive and there is a class strugle some just feel alienated and drop out of sociaty .

By the way what is a rat race ??

[Lynx]

No I think what he was saying is because sociaty is competitive and there is a class strugle some just feel alienated and drop out of sociaty .

By the way what is a rat race ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_race

Negative thinking can be toxic. Best to avoid or at least put into context.
Another pitfall: false self-esteem

Self-empowerment: works for some people

[Robespierre2.0]

I'd say libertarians are far more vulnerable to this thinking.
Seriously, to them, every part of life is an uphill struggle against the evil forces of collectivism.
"How dare the state use my tax money to educate disenfranchised urban children! How dare the police infringe on my constitutional right to run through the streets naked on PCP!"

[PigmerikanMao]

So you believe that humanity is merely swathes of stupid and lazy and useless masses and that the truly select few will rise to prosperity with hard work?

People who "give up" are just apathetic b/c they are not yet revolutionary. Most people don't like the rat race and not everyone thinks it's worth trying from a cost-benefit analysis. It's easy to be white and middle-class and then say that others are simply lazy.

:thumbup:

[danyboy27]

i actually think its true but that dosnt mean i am a libertarian.
So far the only solution for people like that is support from the governement to help them to have a better situation by giving them work and education.

[Sacrificed]

What the OP refers to is clearly bourgeois left-liberalism, and certainly doesn't apply to genuine socialists or anarchists. You will find, I believe, that most working-class activists feel a sense of joie de vivre and life-affirmation when they assert their class interests; there is certainly a Dionysian camaraderie and loss-of-self in their activities. This is essential to the movement.

'Self-victimization' is actually a Christian, i.e. moralistic, specialty: you will find it everywhere in the history of that religion, from the Circumcellions (http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/heresy/circumcellions/) (who would assault wayfarers in the wilderness in the express hope of being martyred) to the more modern practice of self-flagellation amongst the Catholics of the Philippines. This is the result of a spiritualistic, other-worldly nihilism innate to and embraced by the bourgeois-Christian element of society in order that they may more handily ignore the material conditions which they themselves support; it would otherwise grate their rather feeble consciences if they were for one second forced to see the circumstances of the world beyond their subjective boundaries.

[JimmyJazz]

There is something almost dialectical in the criticisms of leftists:

All leftists are self-victimizing; all leftists have a messiah complex

Leftism is the politics of material jealousy; lefties are pie-in-the-sky psuedospiritual dreamers

Socialists are bleeding hearts; socialists are angry, class-obsessed dividers

etc. :lol:

[Sacrificed]

There is something almost dialectical in the criticisms of leftists:

All leftists are self-victimizing; all leftists have a messiah complex

Leftism is the politics of material jealousy; lefties are pie-in-the-sky psuedospiritual dreamers

Socialists are bleeding hearts; socialists are angry class-obsessed divisionaries

etc.

This is because dialectics is a reactionary mode of philosophy, designed with the specific purpose of locating 'contradictions' in a monistic, unified existence. This alone is the failing of Marxism, but so ingrained is dialectical thought in socialist modes of expression because of Marxism that it seems impossible to rid the left of it for the time being. The only answer is to remove any thought of extra-experiential realities from consideration; that is, we know that we are oppressed because it is self-evident.

[JimmyJazz]

Your ability to spot a joke is stunning

[freakazoid]

'Self-victimization' is actually a Christian, i.e. moralistic, specialty: you will find it everywhere in the history of that religion, from the Circumcellions (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/heresy/circumcellions/) (who would assault wayfarers in the wilderness in the express hope of being martyred) to the more modern practice of self-flagellation amongst the Catholics of the Philippines. This is the result of a spiritualistic, other-worldly nihilism innate to and embraced by the bourgeois-Christian element of society in order that they may more handily ignore the material conditions which they themselves support; it would otherwise grate their rather feeble consciences if they were for one second forced to see the circumstances of the world beyond their subjective boundaries.

WTF are you talking about?

[spice756]

You will find, I believe, that most working-class activists feel a sense of joie de vivre and life-affirmation when they assert their class interests; there is certainly a Dionysian camaraderie and loss-of-self in their activities. This is essential to the movement.




What is joie de vivre ? How can you say they are Dionysian ?I don't think rational or not has anything to do why some feel hopeless and drop out of sociaty .



No one knows why they feel like that.

All leftists are self-victimizing; all leftists have a messiah complex

Leftism is the politics of material jealousy; lefties are pie-in-the-sky psuedospiritual dreamers


I don't think you can say they are leftists because they are jealous or day dreamers.

May be some are leftists because they are self-victimizing others not:(

[Sacrificed]

Your ability to spot a joke is stunning

I understand it was a joke, but you've hit on something you don't quite understand: dialectical reasoning falls under the aegis of 'reaction'; it is in fact reaction itself.

Consider the Christian dialectic of "the world, the flesh and the Devil" as against the "kingdom of heaven", in which the two are believed to eventually be unified by means of some eschatological fiat into a "new heaven and a new Earth". This is the central axis about which the wheel of reaction pivots, and yet the left has heretofore seen it fit to chain itself to this yoke of non-logic.

[JimmyJazz]

@spice756:

My post never said "No one know why they feel like that", I think your quote tags are messed up...

[Sacrificed]

WTF are you talking about?

Nothing more and nothing less than the basic fact that 'self-vicimization' is actually a Christian ideal, and hence reactive: consider the lionization of such 'martyrs' as Mother Theresa (in her own right a paragon of reaction) or any other number of self-depreciative figures. This emulates from the Christian worship of the abnegation of life and its embrace of the other-worldly; and it is precisely this emphasis on spiritualism and the 'not-life' which permits the union of seemingly-opposed groups such as the populistic Christian Right and big business - the bourgeois 'good Christian' has no need to even recognize the value of this life, because he has another to worry about. It is certainly not a left-wing ideal, insofar as I understand and embrace the term.

[freakazoid]

lolz

[OI OI OI]

I know what the OP is talking about.
Because of the small intensity of the class struggle in Canada the majority of the activists at the moment are either people on welfare which are not on welfare because of a disability but because they are too lazy to work. They are people divorced from the society and they dare call the workers non-revolutionary because they don't look like them(like bums) and they dont go in protests and fight the police!

They are "proffessional activists" and leftist lifestylists .

Other activists are just rich little brats that have never worked once in their lives.
They are mostly anarchist but NOT anarchist communist. They think that the working class is something "abstract" just because they haven't talked to a worker once in their lives as they live in the rich suburbs:lol:

And of course there are some that are honest concious workers and activists which I respect a lot.
They are to be found both in communist and anarchist organizations, but unfortunately they are not the majority.

But this is of course because of the small intensity of the class struggle

[freakazoid]

Because of the small intensity of the class struggle in Canada the majority of the activists at the moment are either people on welfare which are not on welfare because of a disability but because they are too lazy to work. They are people divorced from the society and they dare call the workers non-revolutionary because they don't look like them(like bums) and they dont go in protests and fight the police!

Welfare benefits the government. It breeds laziness. It causes people to become dependent on the government instead of becomming self liberated.

[Incendiarism]

I come from a modest background and I can assure you that it is not as simplistic as laziness or refusal to better yourself. Some of the things you experience are pretty hosed up and discouraging.

[danyboy27]

I come from a modest background and I can assure you that it is not as simplistic as laziness or refusal to better yourself. Some of the things you experience are pretty hosed up and discouraging.

i have been poor when i was young, piss poor, and seriously, i dont have nothing against the poors, people who dare working on the minimum wage are patriots, and the governement should do something to make their life better.

i dont think the poor are lazy, on the countrary, poor are courageous and strong people, and deserve respect.

someone poor that make his living from a minimum wage job but still continue having hope for a better life, try to improve his life quality, this person is my hero, for real.

what i said earlier about SOME leftist are based on the ones i met, talked to, that i frequented.

not all leftist are like that, but SOME are, and for the right wing, there is a syndrom too, generalization and oversimplification of the situation in general, a refusal to think the governement shouldinterveine.

Not only leftist have bad habit, but right winger too.

[Sacrificed]

i have been poor when i was young, piss poor, and seriously, i dont have nothing against the poors, people who dare working on the minimum wage are patriots,

"Patriots"? I don't think any 'poors' feel 'patriotic' about a government that keeps them perpetually on the brink of personal disaster.

But maybe you can tell me - why is it that having vague nationalistic sentiments automatically makes one 'good'?


and the governement should do something to make their life better.No; the government ought to stay the fuck out of their way while they reclaim the means of production.


i dont think the poor are lazy, on the countrary, poor are courageous and strong people, and deserve respect.

someone poor that make his living from a minimum wage job but still continue having hope for a better life, try to improve his life quality, this person is my hero, for real.How fucking patronizing.

*snip 'Golden Means' bullshit*