Canadian Election Set For October 14th

[The Intransigent Faction]

Canada's prime minister calls early election

By ROB GILLIES – 3 hours ago

TORONTO (Associated Press) — Canada's prime minister dissolved Parliament on Sunday and called an early election next month in hopes of strengthening his Conservative minority government's hold on power.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's party needs to win an additional 28 seats to have a majority in Parliament. Although he has played down that possibility, polls in recent days indicate his right wing party has a chance to do so.

The Oct. 14 election will be Canada's third ballot in four years.

The Conservatives unseated the Liberal Party in 2006 after nearly 13 years in power, but as a minority government the Conservatives have been forced to rely on opposition lawmakers to pass legislation and adopt budgets.

With Harper signaling in recent weeks that he was leaning toward calling early elections, analysts said the Conservatives had a better shot of winning now than if they waited until being forced by the opposition into a vote later, when the Canadian economy might be worse off.

On Sunday, Harper visited Governor General Michaelle Jean and asked her to dissolve Parliament. The governor general is the representative of Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, who is Canada's head of state, but the position is purely ceremonial and obeys the wishes of the prime minister.

"Between now and Oct. 14, Canadians will choose a government to look out for their interests at a time of global economic trouble," Harper said after the meeting.

"They will choose between direction or uncertainty; between common sense or risky experiments; between steadiness or recklessness."

Liberal leader Stephane Dion acknowledged his party faced an uphill battle in the election campaign.

"I love it. I love to be the underdog. I love being underestimated," Dion said.

Harper has said he is running on economic issues and stresses his opposition to an energy tax proposed by the Liberals.

But Robert Bothwell, director of the international relations program at the University of Toronto argued the move was political.

"Harper is going for a majority government. That's really the only issue," he said.

Observers also say Harper wanted a ballot ahead of the U.S. election. Bothwell said if Democrat Barack Obama surges in the next month in the United States, it will help Canada's opposition Liberal party.

"It will be bad for Harper. Canadian politics don't exactly mirror those of the United States but if something happens in the United States it will find an echo in Canada," Bothwell said.

Electoral legislation that Harper helped enact after he came to power in 2006 fixed the date for the next election in October 2009, but a loophole allows the prime minister to ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament.

The Conservatives now fill 127 of the 308 seats in Parliament. The Liberals have 95, Bloc Quebecois 48, the New Democrats 30 and the Greens have one seat. Three seats are held by independents, and four are vacant.

Recent polls indicate the Conservatives are leading and have a chance to win a majority.

An Environics Research survey said 38 percent of Canadians would vote for the Conservatives and 28 percent for the Liberals. Some 19 percent backed the New Democrats, 8 percent the Bloc Quebecois and 7 percent the Green party. A total of 2,505 people were surveyed by telephone from Aug. 29 to Sept. 4. The poll had a margin of error of 2 percentage points.

Harper has said he expects an election to produce another minority government, but Bothwell argued that the prime minister is saying that because he does not want to stir up Canadians who worry a majority Conservative government would move the country further right with policies similar to those of the U.S. Republican Party.

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Saturday that if the Conservatives win the next election, the government will lower personal taxes to make them more competitive with rates in the U.S. over the next few years.

Since becoming prime minister, Harper has extended Canada's military mission in Afghanistan. Canada has lost 96 soldiers and as the death toll approaches 100 the mission could become an issue in the campaign.

Harper also pulled Canada out of the Kyoto Protocol, which commits industrialized nations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Dion, a former environment minister who named his dog Kyoto, wants to increase taxes on greenhouse gas emitters. Dion has moved his party to the crowded left in Canada by staking his leadership on a "Green Shift" tax plan.

The Conservatives have been targeting Dion's plan in television and radio ads, saying it would kill jobs and drive up energy costs even higher than the current high levels. Dion has said he would offset the higher energy prices by cutting income taxes.

Dion hasn't had much success selling the plan to Canadians, many of whom have viewed him as a weak leader ever since he surprisingly won leadership of the party in late 2006.

Many expect Dion to be removed as leader if he loses the election. The Liberals have traditionally been the party in power in Canada. Analysts say Harper is intent on destroying the Liberal brand and wants to instill conservative values in Canada.

Dion said the election offers a stark choice between his party and the "most Conservative government in our history."

Dion was a part of Canada's Liberal government that opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 and turned down Washington's request to send troops. Harper supported the Iraq war when he was in the opposition.I think the article covers enough space, but I'd like to add a few key things:

1. Harper had passed a law, Bill C-6, that called for fixed election dates. He violated his own principle by calling for an election. Whether this was illegal or not is still subject to debate, but he used the method that was meant not to be used after this bill was passed by requesting that the Governor General dissolve parliament (representative of the Queen, as we are still officially a "constitutional monarchy").

2. Dion is an unpopular leader here. For those who are unfamiliar with our situation, our Liberal Party in general has faced scorn after the "Sponsorship Scandal" which was essentially an illegal diverting of tax dollars to industries and other areas in the lone french province of Québec, intended to neutralize support for separatists. Harper has campaigned on "accountability", beginning with an act meant to ensure transparency and discourage illicit activity by governments for their benefit.

3. As the article said, he supported the invasion of Iraq. Here are some other positions of his:

-The Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006 was a "measured response" (said only a day after a Canadian family was killed by an Israeli air strike).
~http://www.marxist.ca/content/view/199/45/

-"I believe that all taxes are bad."
~CTV.ca news, December 1, 2005, "Tory tax cut promise dominates campaign"
"Kyoto is essentially a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nations."

~The Star, January 30, 2007

Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status.
~National Post, Dec. 8 2000 p. A18

Same sex marriage is not a human right. ... [u]ndermining the traditional definition of marriage is an assault on multiculturalism and the practices in those communities.
~Hansard, February 16, 2005

Some basic facts about Canada that are relevant to my talk... Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.
~-From a speech to the Council for National Policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy), a conservative American lobby group, June 1997

Last but not least:

"In terms of the unemployed... don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance."
~(same as above).

I think that I've made my point. The Liberals are bourgeois and our "New Democratic Party" is reformist..but they at least kept us out of Iraq (although they put us in Afghanistan).

Sorry about the length, just thought I'd give people an idea of what to expect. They say he's more moderate now..but he's shown serious aggression and a lack of concern for workers, and one main reason that's been kept in check so far is our multi-party system that has kept them in need of support from at least some members of opposing parties.

[leftist manson]

Awesome post.
Almost all the polls i've seen show conservatives leading liberals by at least 5% votes and NDP lesser than 20% :(:(

[leftist manson]

Just wanted to add that Harper and the whole 'calgary school' people are as perverse as mainstream right can be. One person from this group (i forget his name) has been campaigning against multi-lingualism. He brought up an argument against having punjabi and mandarin being included in the Road tests (ARe you ..ucking kidding me?). Moreover they are hard-core strausserites which puts them squarely in the Bush camp.:(

[OI OI OI]

and NDP lesser than 20% http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/sad.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/sad.gif
Who cares about the percentage of the NDP?

The only thing that is good about the NDP is that a lot of activists are attracted by it so by working in the NDP a marxist organization can "recruit" those activists and play a role in transforming the NDP to a revolutionary party.

Even if the latter is not achieved the gains of working inside the NDP are enormous.
The IMT had huge successes with recruits from the NDP and also they managed to pass some stuff in their constitution which are pretty progressive such as the nationalization of all big industries under workers control , I believe that was in Yukon and BC.

Other than that we as revolutionary left , we couldn't care less if the NDP gets 20%. 10% or 5% . It simply doesn't change anything. Although yes, I would prefer an NDP governnment which would follow the principles of the NDP compared to the liberals or the conservatives.
But the thing is that under these objective conditions if the NDP gets ellected it would follow the line of the liberals.

It has happened to all the Social-Democratic Parties in Europe and it will happen here.

We cannot rely on the bourgeois political system for change.
We need to smash it!

That being said I will vote for the marijuana party:lol::)

[The Intransigent Faction]

Just wanted to add that Harper and the whole 'calgary school' people are as perverse as mainstream right can be. One person from this group (i forget his name) has been campaigning against multi-lingualism. He brought up an argument against having punjabi and mandarin being included in the Road tests (ARe you ..ucking kidding me?). Moreover they are hard-core strausserites which puts them squarely in the Bush camp.:(

Thanks. Yeah..they tried to say on the channel CPAC that Harper and Bush had different stances on abortion..funny trhen that he so disapproved of putting Morgentaler on the Order of Canada.
They also mentioned gay marriage..see the quote above.
He "hasn't touched these issues" because of the inevitable effect on his popularity. They let very few calls through pointing any of this out.

Yeah, I have family in Calgary so I don't want anyone to think that I hate everyone from Alberta..but it's been called "Canada's Texas", and they've tended to whine about left-wingers ever since Trudeau decided they shouldn't hog their oil/oil profits.

Hopefully the polls are wrong.. It is a short campaign season ahead..but there should be enough time for a change in public opinion.

[spice756]

There is more here.


Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office has confirmed he will call an early general election.

Dimitri Soudas, a spokesman for the prime minister, said voting would be held on 14 October.

Mr Harper had hinted in recent weeks that elections were inevitable to break a deadlock with opposition parties on several key issues.
His Conservative Party was elected in 2006, but does not have an overall majority in parliament.

The prime minister will meet with Governor-General Michaelle Jean on Sunday morning to ask for parliament's dissolution - which would lead to the third national election in just over three years.
The Governor-General represents Canada's head of state, Queen Elizabeth II, whose formal approval is needed to dissolve parliament.
The call for elections comes days after a poll which showed the Conservative government to be leading in the polls after a surge in popularity.

They need to win an additional 28 seats to have a majority in parliament, and analysts say they have a better chance of doing so now rather than waiting until the opposition decides to call a vote.
Mr Harper's Conservatives ended 12 years of Liberal government after elections in 2006.

His party claimed 36% of the popular vote by promising to cut taxes, fight crime, boost military spending and to repair relations with the US. He went on to form a minority administration, but has been dogged by clashes with opposition parties, whose agreement he needed to pass legislation.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7601391.stm

[The Intransigent Faction]

Who cares about the percentage of the NDP?

The only thing that is good about the NDP is that a lot of activists are attracted by it so by working in the NDP a marxist organization can "recruit" those activists and play a role in transforming the NDP to a revolutionary party.

Even if the latter is not achieved the gains of working inside the NDP are enormous.
The IMT had huge successes with recruits from the NDP and also they managed to pass some stuff in their constitution which are pretty progressive such as the nationalization of all big industries under workers control , I believe that was in Yukon and BC.

Other than that we as revolutionary left , we couldn't care less if the NDP gets 20%. 10% or 5% . It simply doesn't change anything. Although yes, I would prefer an NDP governnment which would follow the principles of the NDP compared to the liberals or the conservatives.
But the thing is that under these objective conditions if the NDP gets ellected it would follow the line of the liberals.

It has happened to all the Social-Democratic Parties in Europe and it will happen here.

We cannot rely on the bourgeois political system for change.
We need to smash it!

That being said I will vote for the marijuana party:lol::)

I agree that we cannot rely on the bourgeois system.
Nevertheless, an alarming level of support for the Conservatives is a bad sign.
It's too bad the Rhinoceros Party died out. :(

[The Intransigent Faction]

There is more here.


Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office has confirmed he will call an early general election.

Dimitri Soudas, a spokesman for the prime minister, said voting would be held on 14 October.

Mr Harper had hinted in recent weeks that elections were inevitable to break a deadlock with opposition parties on several key issues.
His Conservative Party was elected in 2006, but does not have an overall majority in parliament.

The prime minister will meet with Governor-General Michaelle Jean on Sunday morning to ask for parliament's dissolution - which would lead to the third national election in just over three years.
The Governor-General represents Canada's head of state, Queen Elizabeth II, whose formal approval is needed to dissolve parliament.
The call for elections comes days after a poll which showed the Conservative government to be leading in the polls after a surge in popularity.

They need to win an additional 28 seats to have a majority in parliament, and analysts say they have a better chance of doing so now rather than waiting until the opposition decides to call a vote.
Mr Harper's Conservatives ended 12 years of Liberal government after elections in 2006.

His party claimed 36% of the popular vote by promising to cut taxes, fight crime, boost military spending and to repair relations with the US. He went on to form a minority administration, but has been dogged by clashes with opposition parties, whose agreement he needed to pass legislation.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7601391.stm

Thanks for that.
I could have registered to vote if only they waited a few months..Not that a serious difference would come out of that, but I'd at least vote NDP because they're preferable to the Conservatives by far. The more split parliament is, the less they can act and make things worse..I hope.
EDIT: Oh, interesting fact..he cut roughly seventeen million dollars from literacy programs and more from the arts..and put that into icebreakers in the arctic.

[OI OI OI]

Nevertheless, an alarming level of support for the Conservatives is a bad sign.

I think they should get ellected , continue their anti-worker politics(especialy with this economic crisis) and when the people of Canada feel the policies in their pockets(which will be empty) , they will move to more radical solutions, hopefully more radical than the NDP.

I don't think that under these objective conditions we should give a fuck about who is going to be voted in.
They are all the same anyways(liberals, conservatives etc)



It's too bad the Rhinoceros Party died out. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/sad.gif

Ya its a pity indeed.:lol: Their policies are pretty amusing. I read some on wikipedia and I couln't stop laughing.

But I find the Marijuana Partys platform pretty interesting .
Who doesn't wanna be able to smoke pot in a public place without fear of being caught?
Also they have a second (and last ) policy , of legalizing prostitution which I think it is progressive under capitalism as it will improe the working conditions of these women and men.

Marijuana Party FTW

[spice756]

Other than that we as revolutionary left , we couldn't care less if the NDP gets 20%. 10% or 5% . It simply doesn't change anything. Although yes, I would prefer an NDP governnment which would follow the principles of the NDP compared to the liberals or the conservatives.

But the thing is that under these objective conditions if the NDP gets ellected it would follow the line of the liberals.


The NDP is better than the liberals and conservative , it has more social programs and more stuff for the poor and working class.Any thing left than the NDP will not happen with the economy the way it is.

The liberals have moved more to the right and are neoliberalism.If the conservative get in it will not be long to we are like the US.They are pro-wars ,Pro-US ,Pro-military,pro-pollice ,pro-prisons,anti-liberty rights , anti-working class ,anti-social programs.


The conservative aimed at the middle class.

[OI OI OI]

The NDP is better than the liberals and conservative , it has more social programs and more stuff for the poor and working class.Any thing left than the NDP will not happen with the economy the way it is.

The liberals have moved more to the right and are neoliberalism.If the conservative get in it will not be long to we are like the US.They are pro-wars ,Pro-US ,Pro-military,pro-pollice ,pro-prisons,anti-liberty rights , anti-working class ,anti-social programs.


The conservative aimed at the middle class.

This is your mistake.
You think that politics and political changes influence economy and economic changes.
This is very wrong.
It is the system itself(the market economy) which influences political changes and economic changes.
Do you think that if the NDP gets ellected it will follow their platform?

No , they won't.
They will continue under this bourgeois system what the conservatives did not finish.
All these concessions (healthcare etc) where made because the economy could sustain it due to the capitalist boom after the Second World War.
Now the economy is falling so they have to be pro-war, anti-worker etc.
The thing is that all these policies will transform peoples conciousness and will create conditions for radical change. More radical than the NDP platform.
To support the NDP and think that the NDP will make concrete changes is senseless.
It is like thinking that Obama will be better than Bush and will make concrete changes.

That is why I ll vote for the MArijuana Party:lol:
I have no illusions on the capitalist system.

[spice756]

This is your mistake.
You think that politics and political changes influence economy and economic changes.
This is very wrong.
It is the system itself(the market economy) which influences political changes and economic changes.
Do you think that if the NDP gets ellected it will follow their platform?


no the stae of the economy will for the most part dictate who gets in.The political people will try to influence people for their platform.

The type of conservative in the US is alot like fascism not logic.That is the reason they have not change.The conservative will try to use propaganda to brainwash people.Remember conservative and fascism is faith.

Marx did it in a scientific way.Well liberal is just progressive.That see Harper run for 15 years and we will be like the US .

[The Intransigent Faction]

Whilst I still agree and see the logic behind advocating a system that encourages revolutionary thought amongst the proletariat..I've seen this same line of logic used to justify "support" for the Iraq war, claims that America has found WMD and should stay there, etc., all in the name of encouraging a mobilized opposition from the proletariat.
However, I would digress in that I believe that advocacy of this method could only turn potential revolutionaries away with a misunderstanding of our politics.
When a Marxist goes to protest against, not in favour, of wars and systems which divide the masses, this distorts our true intentions and we could be branded as misleading and opportunistic. It's not the best publicity for a Communist movement, and could in fact drive people to the NDP by, in the minds of the more politically passive proletariat, justifying a resort to reformism on the basis that we are too radical, to the extent that we would advocate ideas that hurt the proletariat itself for some sort of revolutionary gain.
Put more simply--somebody approaching Communist sympathies may be quite perplexed if they get the impression that we are opportunists looking to worsen the world's situation in order to be able to jump in with our solutions.

[OI OI OI]

Marx did it in a scientific way.Well liberal is just progressive

No the bourgeoisie has ceased to be progressive 100 years now. Either the liberals or the conservatives


That see Harper run for 15 years and we will be like the US .

Do you think we wouldn't be like the US in 15 years with a liberal or NDP government:lol:



-somebody approaching Communist sympathies may be quite perplexed if they get the impression that we are opportunists looking to worsen the world's situation in order to be able to jump in with our solutions.


Oh no I never meant that.Of course as communists we always fight for the betterment of the situation of the proletariat. Read the transitional program by Trotsky if you want(available at www.marxists.org and its only 50 pages). But how did you get the impression that I want conditions to be worsened? I would never want that especialy because of the fact that I will be affected by them as I am a member of the working class. Communists do not stand above society as "revolutionaries" on welfare or with a rich dad do:)

[jake williams]

There's a whole lot I could get into. It's especially lame in Guelph where he did it right before the bielection. It is good though because the only registered Communist in Guelph who can legally run is back from Poland and he can run here.

It is really aggravating that Harper won a slim minority on the basis of his supposed non-sleaziness, his honest politics free from manoeuvring as juxtaposed with the Liberals. He may well now be in the process of combining that "victory" with the blatant hypocrisy of going against his word, and legislation, to coast into a majority government, one in which he would be far more aggressive in, well, doing the sorts of things we wish he wouldn't.

Dion is depressing. He actually came to my high school and gave a talk, and I was very unimpressed. Apparently he's only mildly competent at French - and he's tanking in Quebec. Basically he's DOA. I think he is sincerely interested in helping the environment, but he's doing a terrible job of it, and naturally for a number of reasons he and I would not see eye to eye, even given or especially given I'm a little more environmentalist than a lot of comrades I talk to.

Greens are sort of interesting. And terrifying and depressing. You can learn a lot about modern mainstream (ie. non-radical) environmentalism, and modern capitalism, from the Canadian Green Party.

The NDP - I have a lot of sympathies with, and close friends in, the NDP. I was a party member when I was 14. I quit. I have reasons. There are likeable things and people involved. I happen to really like the candidate in this riding.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Do you think we wouldn't be like the US in 15 years with a liberal or NDP government:lol:

To an extent. Not seriously, but to an extent.



Oh no I never meant that.Of course as communists we always fight for the betterment of the situation of the proletariat. Read the transitional program by Trotsky if you want(available at www.marxists.org (http://www.marxists.org) and its only 50 pages). But how did you get the impression that I want conditions to be worsened? I would never want that especialy because of the fact that I will be affected by them as I am a member of the working class. Communists do not stand above society as "revolutionaries" on welfare or with a rich dad do:)



Yeah, alright. Sorry if I offended you there. I never meant to accuse you of that..but I have in fact run into "revolutionaries" who openly claim to support the atrocities in Iraq on the basis that they turn the public and the tide of global power more against the United States.

Also, as long as I'm typing here: I've got a great opportunity at school, over the next little while to make many revolutionary allies--or counter-revolutionary enemies. One of my assignments will be a seminar on whether equal pay is a workable system. Any ideas of good sources to start with for that?

Certainly I've read arguments on RevLeft..but for obvious reasons I can't source this forum in an academic paper.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Put more simply--somebody approaching Communist sympathies may be quite perplexed if they get the impression that we are opportunists looking to worsen the world's situation in order to be able to jump in with our solutions.

Yeah, that's called Narodism. :(

[spice756]

Quote:
Marx did it in a scientific way.Well liberal is just progressive

No the bourgeoisie has ceased to be progressive 100 years now. Either the liberals or the conservatives

So you saying the liberal are not progressive ?




Quote:
That see Harper run for 15 years and we will be like the US .


Do you think we wouldn't be like the US in 15 years with a liberal or NDP government:lol:



I don't think they would go to wars or have a big army.Or have neoconservative or fascism views.

I believe under the NDP we still would have social programs.Has for liberal I say not.

[OI OI OI]

So you saying the liberal are not progressive ?
Yes!
So are you saying that the liberals (capitalism) is progressive? :confused:



I don't think they would go to wars or have a big army.Or have neoconservative or fascism views.

Who fought in Serbia? But of course the liberal Clinton.
Who sent an army of reactionaries to the bay of pigs? But of course Kenedy.
No I don't think that the NDP or the liberals would make lesss wars or have a smaller army if they were in power.
The Liberals were the ones to send us to Afganistan for god's sake!


The NDP - I have a lot of sympathies with, and close friends in, the NDP. I was a party member when I was 14. I quit.

So do you think its a better tactic to reach people with the ideas of communism by running your own party and getting 100 votes or working inside the NDP and getting activists familiar with the ideas of socialism and building your own organization in that way?

Check out the website of the IMT www.marxist.com

you should get in contact with them

[Guerrilla22]

Harper is wasting his time, there's no way in hell they gain an additional 28 seats.

[jake williams]

So do you think its a better tactic to reach people with the ideas of communism by running your own party and getting 100 votes or working inside the NDP and getting activists familiar with the ideas of socialism and building your own organization in that way?
Should we split off a thread as to strategizing around the NDP? Because it's very complex, and important, and I don't want to hijack the thread.

[OI OI OI]

Should we split off a thread as to strategizing around the NDP? Because it's very complex, and important, and I don't want to hijack the thread.

Yes that would be fine
Ill make a new thread on the politics section so we can discuss about it there

[spice756]

Who fought in Serbia? But of course the liberal Clinton.
Who sent an army of reactionaries to the bay of pigs? But of course Kenedy.
No I don't think that the NDP or the liberals would make lesss wars or have a smaller army if they were in power.
The Liberals were the ones to send us to Afganistan for god's sake!


Well first the liberals and the people in Canada are not war happy like the US .And patriotism is not that high in Canada than the US.

Canadians are more caring and gentle than the US that is very patriotism ,war happy ,big army , big police state so on.

And Canadians are more left.



Harper is wasting his time, there's no way in hell they gain an additional 28 seats.


If it does ,than that means Canada is not like it use to and is policitally changing.

One of the conservative goal is a bigger army , Pro-US ,more jails , pro-police.

[OI OI OI]

Well first the liberals and the people in Canada are not war happy like the US .And patriotism is not that high in Canada than the US.

Canadians are more caring and gentle than the US that is very patriotism ,war happy ,big army , big police state so on.

And Canadians are more left.

So the liberals in your opinion would not go to war?
So why did they sent the army to Afganistan?
It is capitalism and it crisis and imperialist interests that create war. Not the liberals or the conservatives.
So the political parties just excecute the wishes of capitalism.
OR do you have the illusion that the liberals do not serve capitalism?

Also the its not the Canadians who are caring and happy in contrast to the "bad americans" that invaded Afganistan.
It is the capitalist government and the Canadian bourgeoisie who invaded Afganistan.
And I don't think that the Canadian bourgeoisie is more gentle , loving and caring than the American bourgeoisie

[spice756]

So the liberals in your opinion would not go to war?
So why did they sent the army to Afganistan?


The mass base in the US is more war like and that's go after enemies.If there was ww3 or other 911 yes.

But no way Canada is going to go to war with Cuba ,Iran or North Korea, Venezuela .And I'm sure if the Canadian government would not have gone to Afganistan with the information we have now.

Do not forget the US lied about WMD .And we know now it is about oil.

[The Intransigent Faction]

And I don't think that the Canadian bourgeoisie is more gentle , loving and caring than the American bourgeoisie

100% agreed.
Actually, just as I type this, a thought:
Perhaps they have simply been more subdued throughout the past decade.
Historically, though, the Canadian bourgeoisie is brutal to its workers too.
Have to cut this short and sleep now.
EDIT: One more thought for tonight. In some ways our Liberals have embraced reformism as well.

[spice756]

EDIT: One more thought for tonight. In some ways our Liberals have embraced reformism as well.


That is true that they have move to the right .That is why I hope liberals do not get in.They have been in too long and are neoliberal.

If the NDP does not get in , well it will not be long to the conservative mentality use the media to move away from semi welfare state to shuffle that money into police ,army ,tough on crime,jails and pro-wars .

And adopt a more conservative moral base country and less separation of church and state.

[The Intransigent Faction]

That is true that they have move to the right .That is why I hope liberals do not get in.They have been in too long and are neoliberal.

If the NDP does not get in , well it will not be long to the conservative mentality use the media to move away from semi welfare state to shuffle that money into police ,army ,tough on crime,jails and pro-wars .

And adopt a more conservative moral base country and less separation of church and state.

Actually I said that they've historically embraced reformism..not that they moved to the right, but in the past few years, yes, they've moved to the right.

I don't support welfare states as they allow a bourgeois system to continue while simply trying to neutralize the proletariat..on the other hand, we all know what class has done the fighting in the bloodiest wars.

EDIT: By the way, though, I would argue to "OI OI OI" that it's absurd to compare Canada's Liberals to America's Republicans/Democrats in terms of warmongering. As I may have already said, the Canadian bourgeoisie has at least been more subdued over the pat decade, if nothing else. It is also true that the average Canadian is much less hostile to Socialism than the average American.

The Canada Health Act, and the fact that we were kept out of the war in Iraq, demonstrate this. Most of us here seemed to draw some huge distinction between the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, there may still very well be sufficient pressure to get us back out of Afghanistan by 2009.

[spice756]

I don't support welfare states as they allow a bourgeois system to continue while simply trying to neutralize the proletariat..on the other hand, we all know what class has done the fighting in the bloodiest wars



Well a welfare states is better than noting .But removng capitalism is better it will remove the competition ,class struggle ,exploitation ,class alienation.

But looking at economy it does not look like Canada is going to be going to socialism or communism in next 5 or 10 years but remain capitalism .If so a welfare states and good MDP is better than the evile US system .


I think if there was going to be a revolution in Canada it would have happen in the 60's or 70's .

[Charles Xavier]

I think a number of you are forgetting that the elections is not meant to be a contest of non-propertied groups and propertied groups, but those with property against others with property.

[Charles Xavier]

Well a welfare states is better than noting .But removng capitalism is better it will remove the competition ,class struggle ,exploitation ,class alienation.

But looking at economy it does not look like Canada is going to be going to socialism or communism in next 5 or 10 years but remain capitalism .If so a welfare states and good MDP is better than the evile US system .


I think if there was going to be a revolution in Canada it would have happen in the 60's or 70's .
You greatly overestimate the strength of the left in the 1960s and 1970s.

[spice756]

You greatly overestimate the strength of the left in the 1960s and 1970s.


That is the reason capitalists up the wages and made a middle class to counter left party.




I think a number of you are forgetting that the elections is not meant to be a contest of non-propertied groups and propertied groups, but those with property against others with property


No the conservative is for the middle class and upper class.One of the goals is less taxes and there is even talk of gas subsidized by the conservative party.The social programs like ESL ,upgrading school ,housing projects ,government welfare get cutbacks or dropped .

One of the goals the conservative is having a hard time passing are tough on crime , more jails ,pro-police ,pro-military and pro-US.

With the minority government they are having a hard time passing those laws. And want to have a election and hope they do not get a minority government .

The liberals are for middle class too and like to fake they are for the working class.The NDP is the only one for the working class.Do to middle class made to counter left party the NDP or other left party are having a hard time to get votes.