The Illuminati

[gilhyle]

I need help. I gotta friend who spends her time on the net reading up on alien abductions and the Illuminati and how starbucks is part of some weird conspiracy and bush & co go to some place to wear bufallo heads and sacrifice kids...whatever, I've stopped listening.....I need a good debunker website, someone who takes all this stuff seriously enough to prove it wrong....cos listening to all this crap is driving me crazy.....oh and the world is gonna end in 2012 cos thats when the Mayan calender runs out. Its all right wing survivalist, anti-semitic, anti-UN crap, but pointing that out is not enough, I need facts.......did you know JT Kirk in Star Trek is a backwards reference to the Knights of the Temple of Jerusalem...help

[Winter]

All I know is that Starbucks does donate a large portion of their profits to Israel. So, whether or not that can be labled a conspiracy is debatable. I just see it as the outcome of corporate interests. As for a debunking site, I'm not too sure. Hopefully somebody here knows of one, because I too would like to check it out.

[Pirate Utopian]

Dont they kinda debunk themself?:)

There are plenty of movies debunking the 9/11-conspiracy.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

I have the same problem with an equally whacko theory, dialectics.

But try here:

http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html

[GPDP]

See, that's the thing about conspiracy theorists. They're usually right-wingers that believe that our current society is basically and fundamentally good, were it not for a group of shadowy elites working and scheming behind the scenes, shaping society to their own designs, infringing on our liberty. The key to regaining our "freedom", then, is to expose these conspirators, and take them down.

Of course, I need not tell you how ridiculous this entire notion is. They basically mistake systematic political and economic injustices, and attribute them to some distant and invisible organization bent on creating a police state. It's not the system that's bad, it's just being corrupted by the Illuminanti. That kind of stuff.

Obviously, we as leftists have no need for conspiracy theories, because we recognize that the problems we face have systematic, rather than conspiratorial, roots. But if you're a libertarian capitalist that finds capitalism to be the best thing since sliced bread, and the USA to be the greatest country in the world and a beacon of freedom worldwide, and you see all sorts of infringement on our livelihoods, then you're bound to look elsewhere for causes rather than what's right below your nose.

[spice756]

Well it comes down to it that people don't want to put the blame on capitalism.And will not understand that capitalism creates a elite of rich people that rule. They claim this new world order of elite people called globalist are doing evile stuff.When it is just imperialism.And top businessman that want to maximize profits.

They don't understand communism ,socialism,working class,imperialism ,class struggle ,ruling class.They don't even understand what liberal and conservative means.

They think the devil is controlling the world a one world government :lol:Welll people are talking about greed,poverty and corruption .Long work time and low pay,police state and police and government corruption.But the people belive it is the elite the shadow government


A devil working in banks ,government,police,,businesses so on.That wants a one world government and decrease the population of the world.They worship the devil and drinking blood.Giving deadly vaccine and getting into top positions to control the world


They are very pro revolution and for the working class and anti-imperialism , anti-police state , anti- rich , anti- ruling class so on !!!

But with a conspiracy take.Yes Prisonplanet and Alex joes is one of them.If we can just explain to them what is really going on.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php (http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php)

[gilhyle]

Rosa

thanks for the link....among their targets is Marxism, said to be a front manipulated by the illuminati to help in their conspiracy.

Spice756, the prisonplanet link didnt work.

[spice756]

Okay it is up and working now.They believe the US is fascism now.

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[GPDP]

Geez, they're just a bit bigger than us.

[spice756]

Wow They seem to talk about lots and I meen lots of conspiracy and believe the US government and other elite rich thugs are implementing fascism.All I can say is wow.


artbell and coast to coast AM was into some of this stuff too


so how do we convert them?

They seem to be anti-imperialism , anti-police state , anti- rich, anti-fascism ,anti-ruling class.

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Looks like the goverment tried to close that web sit it is saying..

:lol:

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[Dystisis]

A lot of their theories are unbelievable, like that regarding aliens and reptilians and what-not. Some of the things about secret societies are true, but only in the sense that they do exist.

There exists two different types of secret societies.

1. Societies that were formed as guilds. Guilds were important in certain places not too long ago, yet largely disappeared today. Free masons, free gardeners, etc. These focus on promoting their members and furthering their course, etc. Often with a lot of moral and ethics thrown in, some religion. They are wannabe number 2's.

2. Societies that were formed as the first schools. These have existed since long before Jesus came along and they were originally formed as academies grown men and women (yes) would go to and learn about, what today is considered, occult and "metaphysical" ideas and alchemy. The precursor to what today is considered normal science. Example is the school of Pythagoras, many societies now claim they are directly related to it.

Common among them both is that they exist and that they profit from keeping it a "secret". Not really a secret but something that not alot of people know a whole deal about. Personally I bet one reason is quite frankly that the areas of interest usually is beyond the acceptance/understanding of popular culture.

[Dystisis]

Double posts are bad, mmkay.



Obviously, we as leftists have no need for conspiracy theories, because we recognize that the problems we face have systematic, rather than conspiratorial, roots. But if you're a libertarian capitalist that finds capitalism to be the best thing since sliced bread, and the USA to be the greatest country in the world and a beacon of freedom worldwide, and you see all sorts of infringement on our livelihoods, then you're bound to look elsewhere for causes rather than what's right below your nose.Indeed, indeed. However, not needing something as an argument doesn't mean there is no such thing. There is a fact, which is that several low-profile organizations do exist and that influential people are members. Some of these are out in the open, others are not. However, do these secret societies control the markets and the governments? Well, their members do to an extent do just that, being capitalists. There is nothing inherently right-wing about recognizing this. What is ignorant is to only mention this and not recognize the all-encompassing system that lies beneath and sucks people into classes.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Gil:


thanks for the link....among their targets is Marxism, said to be a front manipulated by the illuminati to help in their conspiracy.

Indeed, and chief of the Illuminists, Herr 60 Watt Light Bulb, personally helped finance my project...

[ComradeG1967]

The Illuminati is a load of pish. Rampant capitalism is the cause of most of the worlds ills (along with religion and nationalism/fascism).

[mykittyhasaboner]

conspiracy theorists are a good laugh. get a load of Alex Jones, what a dumbass.:laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDMpZC_WPc&feature=related

the puppeteer is hilarious! :lol:

[GPDP]

Double posts are bad, mmkay.

Indeed, indeed. However, not needing something as an argument doesn't mean there is no such thing. There is a fact, which is that several low-profile organizations do exist and that influential people are members. Some of these are out in the open, others are not. However, do these secret societies control the markets and the governments? Well, their members do to an extent do just that, being capitalists. There is nothing inherently right-wing about recognizing this. What is ignorant is to only mention this and not recognize the all-encompassing system that lies beneath and sucks people into classes.

Yes, I did not mean to imply otherwise, though I certainly came across as such.

There are plenty of organizations, like the World Bank, that operate in secret, scheming plans that affect the entire world, and yet face absolutely no accountability and no input from the masses. So in a sense, they are a conspiracy. But we must stress that the problems stem not from the shady dealings of corporate fat cats, but from the system that allows, tolerates, and even encourages this type of thing. That is what we must put forth against conspiracy theorists.

[spice756]

Alex Jones is a fruit cake.I just can't stop laughing :lol:

But that communist girl and those youth should have stand up for their rights.Than allowing him to be in charge and maniuplating them.

May be they where novice.

[ComradeAmir]

the 9/11 conspiracy is not that hard to believe actually. bin laden was funded by the cia throughout the soviet invasion of Afghanistan. he was on the top 10 most wanted list in 1998 when the cia saw bin laden on dialysis. the fake video of the osama impersonator is the only proof the cia has other than audio tapes where bin laden claims responsibility for the 911 attacks. there are plenty more facts but im just focusing on bin laden for now. i am trying to post the video but i can't because i am new to revleft. if you want to view the video just type in 911 conspiracy on youtube and its the 2nd video.