Smells Like Jewish Domination..... - Greatly Disproportionat

[CheGuevara]

In a nutshell, one Democratic Party regional whip, Jim Moran, was forced to resign over saying that the Jews were largely responsible for the US's upcoming war on Iraq. Not pretty, but it's the truth. Not that I really care, I already knew it, and I've never had any faith in electoral politics anyway. Imagine if Mexicans had 1/10th of the influence Jews have.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...mocrats_moran_5 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030314/ap_on_go_co/democrats_moran_5)

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:34 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Kapitan Andrey]

Hey, change your nick-name!!! This is reserved!!!

No one could name his self - CHE!!!(Only his truely son!)

[CheGuevara]

Bah, fuck yourself, I've been around this forum since it was restarted in July 2001.

[Edelweiss]

CG, back again, no even openly anti-semitic, just trying to piss any serious leftists here off.
Fuck you, CG, please go back were you came from, I didn't have missed you.
Oh wait, now you'll yell out again your pathetic phantasies about Che-Lives being part of a Jewish conpiracy. But don't hesitate, I'm alredy eager to read them!

[Kapitan Andrey]

>Bah, fuck yourself, I've been around this forum since it was restarted in July 2001.<

ha-ha-ha!!! I can't see IT in your rank, ass hole!!!

Malte, BANN HIM OUT!!!!!

[CheGuevara]

Ah, my old friend, Malt Liquor. Did you even read the story to which I made a link? You can label me as 'anti-semitic' as much as you want, you foolishly guilt-trapped German, but the truth is the truth; American politics are dominated by Jews.

And as for my Russian friend, I don't personally give a shit about my 'rank' in a silly online forum, especially considering the fact that I tried to edit my posts whenever possible so as to keep down the number of posts, and that I never made silly, worthless posts such as your own. Hahahaha, I love it when people learning another language don't even learn how to spell the curse words correctly; asshole is one word, not two.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 7:10 am on Mar. 15, 2003)


(Edited by CheGuevara at 7:11 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Political Suicide]

CheG, its okay to refute Kapitan's argument, but isn't it a bit childish to go and attack his lack of skill in english? If you want to fucking talk about some "jewish conspiracy" and all these bogus fucking claims, go to fucking OI and debate it there. Or better yet, go to Stormfront, or one of those forums, you'll get much less opposition.

[CheGuevara]

I'm only being as childish as he's being. He has no argument. I don't believe in a "Jewish Conspiracy." It's right out there in the open, it's just that not many people say much about it. There's no mysterious, cigar-smoking Jews in a backroom, they're all on the 6 o'clock network news.

There are two reasons for this war:
1.) Oil profits
2.) Israel

(Edited by CheGuevara at 7:33 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Political Suicide]

Similar to those sneaky aliens who live in my toilet.

[Reuben]

How many jews are there in BUsh's cabinet (not ministers just cabinet ministers)


let me think...
0
Piss off CheGuevara, i know you have personal problems and wish to take out your anger by making nasty comments about jews. you should blame american capitalism rather scapegoating a particular ethnic group.

What is significant is the political leanings of those in powernot whether they are jewish.

[CheGuevara]

Did you read the article, Reuben? Yes or no?

[Reuben]

I have read it.

The fact that he was not necessarily indicative of Jewish influence. His actual comments were 'If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq we would not be doing this.'

In other he was not attacking individuals or a political grouping, instead he was collectively blaming the jewish community for the impending war on Iraq. This is unnacceptable. If somebody was sacked for collectively attacking or blaming the black community for something, itheir sacking would not be indicative of 'Black Domination' , simply of legitimate disgust at the scapegoating of a whole community.

[peaccenicked]

There is a "jewish lobby'', but for me that has always been the Zionist lobby, and not all jews in the USA are Zionist by any means.
Cheg seems to me to be utterly ignoring this and ipso facto has aligned himself with the anti-semites.
http://southafrica.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/2398.php
Read the reply to the article.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:33 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Corvus Corax]

CG, your open anti-semitism disgusts me. Please take it to a Nazi forum. Its only right that the Jewish Community have there place in the government, after all, they are the same as the rest of us and deserve a say in what is a largly white christian government.

C.C

[CheGuevara]

Sure, they deserve a place. But let's keep in mind they only make up 2% of the population. Meanwhile, Latinos make up over 13% of the population (that general population statistic does not include many undocumented immigrants), and we don't have 1/10th the fucking influence that Jews do in the US federal govt. When the numbers are this disproportionate, you can't just fucking ignore them. Unless you're racist....

As for you, Reuben, I'll display a little part of our AIM chit-chat....

Itsik Feffer: its not our fault that we do so well in meritocratic conditions

See, Reuben's willing to accept the positive generalizations, but not the negative ones. Ah, I love the smell ofa contradiction in the morning....

(Edited by CheGuevara at 10:58 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Reuben]

As you know Che Guevara that was simply to wind ou up. I even told you it was in jest. Do you really think id be on this site if i cgenuinely considered america a meritocracy, i just knew how much it wouldannoy you as a a response to your anti-semitic *****ings/

the fact is that your an anti-semitic little freak. You openly said that AIM conversation that you place alot of blame on 'the jews' for the war.

This is an a community that does not accept people who collectively blame whole communities.

Stop scapegoating the jews and piss off. Che lives doesnt want you.

[Reuben]

your obviously not a marxist, otherwise you would be focusing your attention on those individuals who are your political and class enemies, rather scapegoating the jews for the fact that the American government is fucking over the world

[CheGuevara]

You said that you said that only to wind me up well after I called you on your contradiction. If anyone doesn't believe me, I'll e-mail you the AIM conversation.

Boo hoo hoo, whip out your facts, instead of whining about Che-Lives namby-pamby-slightly-left of center radicalism. When you're hit in the stomach in a fight, you can either lie on the floor whining and/or gasping for air, or you can get up and fight like a man. Which is it going to be?

Yeah, sorry, I forgot, a Marxist's first duty is to be politically correct, ending economic exploitation in all its forms comes second. Silly me.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 11:30 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Reuben]

if i could decode your cryptic macho post i might be able to respond.

As i said, the best way to wind up a racist is to be complementary about the group their attacking. Thats why i said it. As i said earlier it was in jest.
I am for revolutionary action but action against the class enem not against the jews as you obviously are.


PS, since when were you latino i thought you were a quater mexican and a bit hungarian

(Edited by Reuben at 11:34 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Reuben]

PS, i am quite happy to apologise if my (completely non-serious and out of character) comments gave the impression that thought that jews were generally better than others. As i said they were in jest and aimed at winding you up.

Now will you apologise for collectively attacking the jewish community

[CheGuevara]

Don't make fun of my machismo, and I won't make fun of your little hat ;)

No, I will never apologize to the Jewish community until they stop throwing their money around in order to gain a disproportionate influence in the American federal government.

I'm a quarter Mexican, and a no more than a quarter of my other three nationalities, so I basically choose to identify myself as Latino.





(Edited by CheGuevara at 11:44 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Reuben]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 11:42 am on Mar. 15, 2003
Don't make fun of my machismo, and I won't make fun of your little hat ;)




ROFL, regarding your other points, when will you realise that the jewish community is not homogeneous in the same way that the latino community is not homogeeonous.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I must say that I do see some truth in your posts, CheG, but I see more misenterpretation due to nationalist feelings.

Yes it's right that a few zionists have a lot of power, backed with a few powerfull christian-fundamentalists who think "that it's their duty to help their jew brothers".

But judging al jews on just a few fundamentalists isn't fair. Like I would judge you for par example a rapist who is Latino.

And then, you consider yourself a marxist, which is very strange, considering marx was jew and marx didn't care of nationalities. He was an internationalist and you're nationalistic. His interprentation was that he was above everything a human and not jew.

So I would strongley suggest that you take a deep look at yourself, maybe you'rent so marxist, leftist and internationalist as you thougt you were.

[CheGuevara]

I make my comments based on believing that the majority of the Jews in the US support Israel, and that the majority make more than the average per capita income, or even more telling, more than the average per capita income for other whites. The majority of Latino men are not rapists (not even close to a majority). However, if you would like to make a generalization about Latinos, a far more accurate one would be that they're against abortion. Not every single one, obviously, as is the case with all generalizations, but at the very least a majority.

[Reuben]

Maybe so, but the fact that the majority of any community behave in a particular way is not in itself sufficient to justify attacks on all of them. THs principle is very dangerous.

I would not say 'i dislike latino's for their stance on abortion'.

[redstar2000]

Let's suppose, CG, that you were right, that the "Jewish Community" had an excess of wealth and political influence in American politics...so what?

Would that have any measurable effect on the class nature of capitalist politics?

Would that have any measurable effect on the U.S. drive towards world empire?

Suppose all American "Jews" suddenly packed up and went to Israel and took their money with them...would anything of substance change?

Or suppose all American "Jews" spontaneously became "born-again Christians"...would anything change?

If there were not and had never been a single "Jew" in the United States, Israel would still be a key ally of U.S. imperialism and there would still be a forthcoming war of conquest in the Middle East.

Blaming the "Jews" for the outrages of capitalism is an old trick...of those who wish to take capitalism "off the hook". It's the same as blaming African-Americans and Hispanic Americans for violent crime and illegal drugs. It is, and has always been, a lie.

Why anyone with any sense should believe it is beyond me.

:cool:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I still can't understand how he can think so racial and consider himself to be a leftist.

[MJM]

Class war, not race war.
As others have said, blame capitalism, not a race for the world as it stands today.

[Zombie]

the only jews who are fucking things up in the ME are part of the fundamentalist Zionist lobby along with that fuckface of Sharon.
CheG you just shouldn't generalise something and blame it on a whole religion/culture. Those jews are neighboring my country and i can tell u i'm just sick of all that racism between christians/jews/muslims in the region. and that racism ain't helpin' noone.

[Pete]

I read this entire thread, and the article. I have this to say.

The Class of the Wealthy Zionists are just as responisble for this war as the Class of Wealthy Born Again Christians or the Class of Wealthy Whitemen or the Class of Wealthy Black Men. Quit breaking it down by race! The Class struggle is that, a struggle between the classes. It is the entire Upper class that is responsible, not one sect of it.

(Edited by CrazyPete at 7:59 pm on Mar. 15, 2003)

[Kapitan Andrey]

Hey, dumb ass with nick of great man!!! CHANGE YOUR NICK!!! I say again CHANGE YOUR NICK!!!

Che wansn't atnisimit,but you are!!!

[CheGuevara]

It is true, many times the USA's foreign policy is not strongly influenced by those of the same ethnic groups as those within a country. However, many times it is, such as with Cuba and Israel. If all the American Jews moved to Israel, Israel would gain in the short-term over having an influx of Jews, especially in their struggle in internally subjugating the Palestinians, but would lose out in the long-term as there would no longer be such vociferous lobbying for them in Washington. Basically, the only thing currently propping up the Israel government and economy is US aid. If that dried up, the Israelis would be forced to cooperate with the Palestinianians instead of exploiting them. The US no longer needs Israel as a staunch ally against 'communism', or Soviet influence in general, in the Middle East.


Hey, dumbass (notice, dumbass is one word, not two, DUMBASS!) fuck off, you have not posted a single message of content in this thread.
By the way, one is not "in the revolutionary mood". You're either revolutionary or you're not. There's no 'on/off' switch.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:29 am on Mar. 16, 2003)


(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:31 am on Mar. 16, 2003)

[Reuben]

If you dislke U.S. support for Israel then by all means oppose zionism whether its espoused by scum like the ADL or scum like Pat Robertson.


(Edited by Reuben at 9:37 am on Mar. 16, 2003)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

CheG you're nationalist feelings cause a subjective view on this matter.

Let's not forgot what Ernesto "Che" Guevera and Karl Marx were fighting for, they were not fighting for the rights of the latins, jews or whites. NO, they gave everything up for the human in general.

Yes, you're right zionists are real bastards, but that doesn't give you the right hate all other jews. There are loads of jews who are helping palestinians. With your generalization you're blaming them too. That is far from fair.

I hope you listen to this and don't waste your life on fighting race differences, but rather on fighting captalism.

- CCCP

[mentalbunny]

Ok, I've skim-read this thread, but I skipped out the article at the beginning and I'm going to offer my 2 cents' worth, or whatever the expression is:

The reason there are so many Jews in politics, etc is because they are the main group who can look outside themselves. Look at Madeline Albrite (sp?), the thing with her is she looks beyond America.

Ok, so the jews affect the relationship with Israel but they aren't the only influence and the president is perfectly capable of screwing them all over, if that's what it is, by refusing to help Sharon. Bear in mind that not all the Jews in the US are in favour of Sharon, that makes a huge difference.

So there are a lot of Jews? Does it matter? There are even more "stupid white men".

[Zombie]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 11:04 am on Mar. 16, 2003
the president is perfectly capable of screwing them all over, if that's what it is, by refusing to help Sharon.

if only that was so simple. first Sharon is much much more intelligent than that stupid fuck of a president i'll give u that.
and second, the Jewish lobby has too much of a strong hold in terms of investments and politics in the us gov... to screw Sharon, would be political suicide for GWB and his administration...
i just can't stop thinking of all those U.N sanctions on Israel that the US has vetoed against... pure coincidence or just flagrant conspiracy... who knows :confused:

[Blasphemy]

yes, the jewish lobby is extremely powerful, considering that jews make up 2 percent of the population. but, surprisignly, most jews in the states are not filthy rich. most of them are just people, just like most people. they don't have huge mansions, and they don't own large factories. amazing, is it not?

the fact that the jewish lobby is strong is the fault of the degenerated US capitalist system. you want to fight it, fight capitalism, not the jewish people. ultimately, they are you allies. in russia, one quarter of all members of the revolutionary movements before october were jews. a lot of people considering the percent they make up in the population. jews are the greatest capitalists, but also the greatest revolutionaries.

[Reuben]

Quote: from Zombie on 4:15 pm on Mar. 16,

if only that was so simple. first Sharon is much much more intelligent than that stupid fuck of a president i'll give u that.
and second, the Jewish lobby has too much of a strong hold in terms of investments and politics in the us gov... to screw Sharon, would be political suicide for GWB and his administration...
i just can't stop thinking of all those U.N sanctions on Israel that the US has vetoed against... pure coincidence or just flagrant conspiracy... who knows :confused:


I would be critical of the term 'jewish lobby' as it assumes that all politically active jews and jewish oranisations are workin together as a political organisation.They are not, like blasphemy said they are just people. I would talk in terms of Bush suppoting Israel de to the zionist lobby, a this grouping would include chistian fundamentalist supporters of Israel but excludes those jews who are not zionists or sharonites. To blame the 'Jewish Lobby' is an indictment of all jews or organisaion that are jewish in character and thus inaacurate.

[mentalbunny]

I know, Zombie, I came over a bit naïve, didn't I?

Can anyone list the Jews in important positions and say just how pro-Sharon, etc, they are? it would be really good if we could look at some facts.

[Zombie]

Quote: from Reuben on 12:14 pm on Mar. 16, 2003

I would be critical of the term 'jewish lobby' as it assumes that all politically active jews and jewish oranisations are workin together as a political organisation.They are not, like blasphemy said they are just people. I would talk in terms of Bush suppoting Israel de to the zionist lobby, a this grouping would include chistian fundamentalist supporters of Israel but excludes those jews who are not zionists or sharonites. To blame the 'Jewish Lobby' is an indictment of all jews or organisaion that are jewish in character and thus inaacurate.

agreed, using the term Zionist lobby is more exact, as i said in an earlier post. thx for reminding:)

[Larissa]

"Word is made flesh as God reveals himself... as a fish"

Edward Helmore New York
Sunday March 16, 2003
The Observer

An obscure Jewish sect in New York has been gripped in awe by what it believes to be a mystical visitation by a 20lb carp that was heard shouting in Hebrew, in what many Jews worldwide are hailing as a modern miracle.
Many of the 7,000-member Skver sect of Hasidim in New Square, 30 miles north of Manhattan, believe God has revealed himself in fish form.

According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew.

Many believe the carp was channelling the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died; others say it was God. The only witnesses to the mystical show were Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker, Luis Nivelo. They say that on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.

Nivelo, a Gentile who does not understand Hebrew, was so shocked at the sight of a fish talking in any language that he fell over. He ran into the front of the store screaming: 'It's the Devil! The Devil is here!' Then the shop owner heard it shouting warnings and commands too.

'It said "Tzaruch shemirah" and "Hasof bah",' he told the New York Times, 'which essentially means that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is near.'

The animated carp commanded Rosen to pray and study the Torah. Rosen tried to kill the fish but injured himself. It was finally butchered by Nivelo and sold.

However, word spread far and wide and Nivelo complains he has been plagued by phone calls from as far away as London and Israel. The story has since
been amplified by repetition and some now believe the fish's outburst was a warning about the dangers of the impending war in Iraq.

Some say they fear the born-again President Bush believes he is preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ, and war in Iraq is just the opening salvo in the battle of Armageddon.

Full article:

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/st...,915125,00.html (http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,915125,00.html)

[Political Suicide]

Why the fuck don't my fish ever speak hebrew and reveal apocalyptic prophecies to me? I think mine might be retarded.. maybe they remove a chromosone or two at the pet store. maybe its a catholic conspiracy to stop us from hearing the fish's true voice. the voice of god. Or maybe not.

On a second note. I once thought i heard my dog say "fuck you". but i was a little drunk and he was choking on something.

[Pete]

Lara is this to say not to believe everything? or that LL is posting bullshit? I do not see the point if it is not one of those tow.

:EDIT: as always I will elave the stupid comment I have written. I though tthise was a different post apologies. I understand now.

(Edited by CrazyPete at 6:42 pm on Mar. 16, 2003)

[Zombie]

A FISH... GOD ALMIGHTY, and he turned out as a fish. not even a pretty fish... just an ugly big fat fish...

may i add i found it most bizarre, seeing that this savant talking fish had BEEN SOLD after a thing like that happened.. they sold it as if nothing happened?!?! wtf???? YOU DON'T SELL A TALKING FISH!!! :biggrin: these people amuse me and piss me off at the same time... lol

[Eastside Revolt]

"....AND ALMIGHTY GOD, BEAT HIS FISH"

[ChiTown Lady]

CheGuevara points out: But let's keep in mind they only make up 2% of the population.

However the 2% that they make up seem to also make up the controlling influence of our media – no lie, pay attention.

And Shut UP Reuben Anti-Semitic INDEED!!! The Palestinians are ALSO Semitic by race, so as far as I can see – the Israeli Government is Anti-Semitic in what they are doing to their brothers there.

I have just about all I can take with this Anti-Semitic rhetoric - Fuck That SHIT Specifically – Genocide is Genocide – and outright murder is murder 0 plain and simple. You got that???

The State of Israel is acting no better than Hitler’s Germany in their conduct and treatment of their non-Jewish neighbors – who I might again point out to you all are also Semitic in race even though they happen to be Muslim by religion.

HOW DARE ISRAEL try to make this an Anti-Semitic issue against them – even for one fucking minute. WTF!!!

And again SHUT the FUCK up Reuben. Start thinking from the other side of the fence – just for one fucking second of having this totalitarian supremacist attitude against your brothers. This is what it is all about.

If the Israeli Government would accept the FACT then EVERYONE in this whole world – particularly their immediate neighbors = not Jewish by religion, and if they would decode to accept that FACT and live in peace with their brothers instead of insisting on dominating them and also imposing genocidal acts upon them – I would accept that they are trying to act somewhat human – BUT that has NOT been the case for some time now.

Face the facts – The Israeli Government and the Zionist movement is no better than that of the Nazi’s

The Israeli Government is a party to the biggest totalitarian Imperialist movement known to mankind today. They are part of the problem – NOT part of the solution.

This is what I see. And I am neither Jewish nor Muslim – I am an outside observer from that perspective.

[Reuben]

What the fuck are you talking about ChiTown.

Have i ever defended Israel. Why are you ranting on too me about whaty the fascist state of Israel has done?

Why are u assuming im a zionist?

I find your message completely infuriating. I have made clear on this board and elsewhere my feelings towards Israel. In london I have been extremely involved in Youth Action for Palestine and campagn for Palestine Rights.

So do not accusing me of having a 'totalitarian supremacist attitude' and telling me to start thinking from the other side of the fence. Instead withdraw your accusation that im a supremacist.

Earlier in this topic i did express my hatred for zionist forces in america. What i completely legitimately objected to was the WHOLE AMERICAN JEWISH COMMUNITY being COLLECTIVELY BLAMED for the war. It is never legitimate to scapegoat a whole ethnic group.
I hope ive cleared some stuff up about my own opinions. Not that i should have to, It should be clear from my posts what i think of zionism.


pissed off,

Reuben

[Zombie]

Hey relax chitown, go take a smoke outside it'll calm u down :)
no seriously, as reuben said we're all accusing the Israeli State ran by Adolph Sharon, and the Zionist lobby there's no question about that.
nobody's defending the Israelis for what they're doing.
Fuck, I for one will never defend them, after what they did to my country.
But, I will never defend the actions of the Palestinian authority either.
they're no better believe me. still today, they occupy large portions of Lebanese territories illegaly and the gov can't do shit about it... cos they got the connections with Syria and Iran (i.e Hezbollah) and other Arab states...
u should get to know the region's history, if u haven't already.
u think the Palestinian authority cares bout the land taken from Israel so much? they just want a land and that's freaking me out. cos' if nobody does something soon to end this conflict and give them what's rightfully theirs, they're not gonna think twice bout taking more and more territories from my country and that, my friend, I can't tolerate.
they also played a destructive role in Lebanon's 15 year war, they used our country for their playground and they weren't so innocent as for the killing of civilians (lebanese and others).
I'm extremely summing things up here, but just to tell u I regard the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli State as same kind of shit.
They fucked up my country, and for that I'll never take sides with any of them.
I just hope that one day maybe we'll have the chance of having rest and peace in the region.
But thinking of what is gonna happen with Iraq and subsequentely..... fuck it's nearly impossible. thx bush, thx alot. :angry:

[Kapitan Andrey]

Hey, moron with nick of Great Revolutioneer!!!

>By the way, one is not "in the revolutionary mood". You're either revolutionary or you're not. There's no 'on/off' switch. <
Fuck off from my sigmature!!! Make your, fuck on/off!!! :biggrin:
Sometimes my POWER increases so much...I just want to do something HEROIC...or CRUSH somethin'...like your stupid,anti-semitic head!!!
Now that's what I call Revolutionary Mood!!!

[Political Suicide]

ChiTown Lady,

Try to stay away from making fucking stupid posts, as i seem to remember you doing in a post i moved. Your assumptions are rather retarded. If you knew Reuben AT ALL or even knew the slightest bit about his beleifs, you would shut the fuck up. He is anti-zionism and anti-Israel, just not anti-jewish. There is a difference. I don't give a shit if anyone is jewish, catholic, pagan, blue, red, green, tall, short, fat, skinny, ugly, martian or plutoniun, i just don't give a fucking shit. I hate all capitalists, i don't prejudice based on religion. On the same token, i fight for the working class, regardless of religion.

[Kapitan Andrey]

About topic:

I'm not against the jevs!
I'm not support the jevs!
I don't care of the jews!

[CheGuevara]

Ok, Mr Weekend Revolutionary. I hope that when the fight with the capitalists comes, you'll be "in the revolutionary mood" and won't look the other way. But hey, if you're not in the mood, you're not in the mood.

¡Qué pinche pendejo!

[Kapitan Andrey]

Ok, mr Plagiat(or)!!!

Don't worry about me! I'm always ready to fight!!!

[Sinistra]

Fuck you Cheguevara , your a "anti-semitic" . the jews this , the jews that , i thought we were all born equal .
And belive me , as an israely i tell you that Israel doesnt rule the US , but the opesite is right , the US rules Israel .
Please stop your racsist , all zions protocals, shit . the US isnr contraled by jews . i cant believe that racists like you exist even beyong socialists .

[Angie]

Quotes from Kapitan Andrey (slightly altered for some corrections, sorry!):

"I'm not against the jews!" - Good to hear.

"I don't support the jews!" - Personal choice, I respect that.

"I don't care for the jews!" - The Israeli government, the IDF, and the Zionist movement have a lot to answer for, granted, so most of us accept that you don't care for them (most of us probably feel the same), but to say that you don't care for the Jews in general is silly. They're not all bad.

Myself, I can't stand the Israeli government, the IDF or Zionism. I'm not ashamed of saying that, they all have shown themselves to provide a very negative effect upon the planet in one way or another, a fact that literally leaves me feeling like my blood's boiling. But I can't say I'm against all Jews, there's just no point.

An old school friend of mine was Jewish and I remember ringing her home number one day and talking to her grandmother who had this strong, Jewish accent. She was a lovely lady with a wicked sense of humour, who sounded all the more funny with that accent of hers. It's one of those things that reminds me that the anger people have shouldn't be all encompassing.

[Zombie]

tell you that Israel doesnt rule the US , but the opesite is right , the US rules Israel

The Israeli state always had the strong support and sympathy of the american gov. It is backed up 200% by the latter ok? i dont see the fuckin point in the US ruling Israel, on the contrary i tend to see the opposite. The US vetoed on ~30 UN resolutions concerning Israel for the past decades, who's ruling who?
Sharon and his zionist ppl are having a firm grasp at Bush's balls and they well damn know it.
so please, the fact of u being an Israeli doesn't impress me i got lots of good Israeli friends aight?
I'll go and say one more time, FUCK nazi Sharon and the Zionist lobby. but if u call me anti-semitic cos i think the israeli state isn't all that peaceful (apart from Yitzhak Rabin and such, to an extent..) and that i don't respect it a bit, then get lost.

(Edited by Zombie at 11:16 am on Mar. 18, 2003)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

A nation which is based on race and religion is a nation set to fail.

[Zombie]

Quote: from CCCP on 11:36 am on Mar. 18, 2003
A nation which is based on race and religion is a nation set to fail.

amen. very true.
and would all those here who insult CG as being anti-semitic please explain to me why the israeli gov only respects and recognises as citizens those who are jewish or born in the state of israel (except the occupied territories)? in israel, if u ain't jewish or israeli, u have no rights. u r not one of them. ISN'T THAT RACISM?? am i wrong? AM I?
i'm getting pissed off here.

[Reuben]

Zombie i very much agree with you. I do condemn the anti-semtism of CG in blaming and scapegoating the whole jewish community in America but i also condemn the racism upon which Israel is based and was founded, IE the ethnic cleansing of 700,000 palestinians.

[CheGuevara]

Wow, Sinastra, I'm amazed you have time to spare from hunting Palestinians to share your worthless Israeli thoughts with us. O, I forgot, the Palestinians do most of the work in Israel, so I guess your work is just subjugating them, and then you do this for leisure. Silly me.

If you need any current proof about Israel's domination of the US, look at the death of the activist over there, run over repeatedly with a bulldozer. Israel wears the pants and *****slaps us all over, and the American Jews are our gag and chains. We Americans aren't nearly as stupid as you Israelis think, we know what you're doing, we just can't do anything about it....yet.

[Kapitan Andrey]

Angie...
>They're not all bad.<
I know that.

Am I said:"Kill, kill em' all !!!" No...
Then what are you talking about!?
Conflict between arabs and jews is immortal...
War will be(oh...it is) bloody and violent...side, which eliminate enemy as a Nation, will win...I think!

(Edited by Kapitan Andrey at 7:46 am on Mar. 19, 2003)

[Reuben]

Quote from cheGuevara - 'American Jews are our gag and chains'

Your racist terminology disgusts me.

[CheGuevara]

Disclaimer: Except for the very small percentage of American Jews who don't support Israel.

Happy now, Captain Political Correctness?

[Sinistra]

Again i am amazed from yuor lak of knowledge . righting all of oyr theories when you know shit .

You all blame Israel for being racsist , when it's not , i am not Jewish , and still i dont feel the racsisism your all talking about , i dont know maybe you know better ... ignorants.

And for all of you who are saying that israel rules the us , Israel cant breath without the us agreeing .

PLEASE YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING , SO STOP JUDGING ISRAEL .

one more thing that i cant understand is why you all hate zionism .

[ChiTown Lady]

I will admit that I spoke out of turn where Reuben is concerned, as he is one of us and not an Imperialist or a Zionist, as I previously thought. My fault was in only reading part of this topic and not the entire topic in full – before I replied. I apologize to you specifically Reuben, for having preconceived misconception due to not reading the entire topic before posting my previous reply.

However I have NOW read it in full and am responding point by point accordingly:

As El Commondonte nicknamed by himself said: “but the truth is the truth; American politics are dominated by Jews.” This statement is MOST certainly TRUE – make no mistake about that fact.

There are two reasons for this war:
1.) Oil profits
2.) Israel


Per Rueben: How many Jews are there in Bush’s cabinet (not ministers just cabinet ministers)….

My comment NOW:

Not to say that The Jewish People are about this specifically (here in the US) However, the fact remains that the US media is in fact controlled and owned mainly by Jewish conglomerates – hence forth public opinion here has been swayed in the direction of the Zionist cause (in this country) - Like it or not - accept it or not – here this is FACT. I am here in the US, and I am seeing it first hand – believe it to be true, as I say it to be true.

To elaborate on a further point that Reuben makes: “In other he was not attacking individuals or a political grouping, instead he was collectively blaming the Jewish community for the impending war on Iraq.”

My comments: Of course this is not ultimately a Jewish front being staged against the Iraqi people or any other peoples Globally – this is certainly an Imperialistic aggression, however the Jewish owned and controlled media here in the United States does play a VERY BIG roll in the forming of public opinion here in that realm. Why do you think that so much of the real news has been withheld from the American people, and so much of the news that has been reported has been either skewed or censored to date? The only reason that I personally know as much as I do about the real deal is because I have been reading the UK and Canadian press reports. Helloooooooo!!!

All right – that’s it – having talked to Reuben “real time” – I know he is from the UK, and also knowing “I think” that CheGuevara is from the US….. I can say THIS SHIT:

And I am truly trying to make peace between you guys who should by rights be brothers in the name of the real cause… I can see both sides, as I am a Libra and as such trying to be diplomatic in my efforts…. I will now point out to both of my Communist Brothers here today:

CheGuevara who I think is in the ‘us can see the media influence insofar as the Israeli situation is concerned – and make no mistake about it – it s there (the influence I mean)…. And Reuben who is in the UK cannot see that specifically.

Without a doubt – it is clearly an Imperialist front driving the aggression, and it is also true that many of the Imperialists that are a party to this aggression are NOT other than Jewish – however it is also true that the state of Israel (which is the main propagator of this Zionist movement) has been endowed with the utmost in diplomatic Immunity insofar as war crimes are concerned - as well has been the US (not having to do wiht any Zionist movement whatsoever - but becaue the Us has decoded by law to call war on The Hague court in the case of any Us military peronsal held for war crimes.........and that at the hands the US Government, which I deplor specifically.

I am now going to address what Larissa said regarding “The Fish”: Whether you think this story is true, fiction, fairy tale or whatever – I believe this could in fact have happened as stated and should be headed as warned. Atheist brothers not withstanding, take head of this message, for it is probably very real.

Political Suicide: It may be that the Fish do not speak to you, because you do not speak to the fish – as it
Were. Call it “Political Suicide” and/or Spiritual suicide – if you will.

ALSO Hail what Crazy Pete said, as it also has the utmost bearing on this case: “The Class of the Wealthy Zionists are just as responsible for this war as the Class of Wealthy Born Again Christians or the Class of Wealthy Whitemen or the Class of Wealthy Black Men. Quit breaking it down by race! The Class struggle is that, a struggle between the classes. It is the entire Upper class that is responsible, not one sect of it.”

The fact still remain that the media here in the US is skewed, and the government policy here is backing Israel and the Zionist movement -–so this is what we see – here. Reuben is in the UK – maybe he does not see it as we Socialist/Communists here in the US see it – from that perspective.

I here you CheGuevara – and yet I know various foreign peoples from Germany, Italy, the UK etc. - I can also see how those who are NOT from here may not be able to here you as I do.

Word!!!

But the real word is to WALK OUT upon any act of military aggression on the Iraqi people I do HOPE we all agree on that point.

Solidarity on that specific front – this is what I am looking for specifically!!!

Regarding the post the: Political Suicide” referred that was moved to the practice forum – this was a post that called for UK WALK OUTS against the Imperialist aggression and bombings being proposed against the Iraqi people -------- “Political Suicide” claimed that THIS particular posting was not a political post and therefore belonged in the practice forum -------- I disagreed at that time and STILL disagree – the case of War on The Iraqi People and protests against such action are clearly political in my eyes. How dare you call my opinion in that regard retarded!

And I d hope that you wll all stage massive walkouts from schools/jobs etc. if and when the shit goes down.




(Edited by ChiTown Lady at 6:21 am on Mar. 19, 2003)

[Reuben]

Thankyou Chitown Lady,

I still think that some clarity needs to come about as to whether it is Jews or zionists who we oppose as the propenents of America's current war drive. IF you simply identify your problem as *jewish* (rather than zionist) influence in the media, then you have just as much reason to be oppositional to Chomsky writing an article as Madeline Albright. This way of looking at the world obviously does not work. I believe i was COMPLETELY right to be disgusted by CheGuevara attacking the whole jewish community, and by CheGuevaramaking sweeping statements about what jews do and why he dislikes them as a whole. His disclaimer means nothing. He is still, regardless of whatever exceptions, defining his opponents in terms of their jewish rather than making a cross cultural attack on ZIonists - a political grouping who include christian fundamentalists such as Pat Robertson.

It is very nice of ChiTownlady to try and make peace between us but some of what CheGuevara said was fundmentally unacceptable to an anti-racist. describing a whole community as 'our gag and chains' ius despicable. Try replacing the word Jew with black and see how some of CHeG s comments turn out. I dont believe that collectively attacking one ethnic community is ever anymore legitimate than attacking another. It doesnt matter if 'alot of jews' are zionists, an ethnic attack remains illegitimate and unsocialistic. In the same way that if the figures for black crime rose it would nott make racism against black at all better. I do not go round saying 'i hate american whites except for the minority who arent backing the war' i say 'i hate the class enemy and those who oppose the war'

Unlike CheG my hate is not ethnic

[Just Joe]

Quote: from Sinistra on 11:31 am on Mar. 19, 2003

one more thing that i cant understand is why you all hate zionism .

gotta spare century on your hands?

[redstar2000]

"We Americans aren't nearly as stupid as you Israelis think, we know what you're doing, we just can't do anything about it...yet."

What do you have in mind, CG?

Come on, don't be shy. Let's hear how you want to deal with that "world-wide secret Jewish conspiracy"? What's your "final solution" to the "Jewish Problem"?

:cool:

[CheGuevara]

Get as many Jews out of powerful positions in the US government.

[Reuben]

So if Nader or Chomsky was gained political power your position would be 'get rid of them?

[redstar2000]

"Get as many Jews [as possible] out of powerful positions in the U.S. government."

Okaaaay...now, how would that work? A quota system or just a flat prohibition?

And then there is the thorny problem "who exactly is a Jew"?

Do you mean an observant (orthodox) Jew? Or one that practices any variant of Judaism? Or one who was raised as an "ethnic" Jew? Or someone who was descended from any or all of the above, even though s/he no longer identifies with Judaism or Jewish culture?

What about "Jews" who have converted to some variant of Christianity...or Islam? What about atheist "Jews"?

What about the children of "mixed marriages"? "Half-Jews"? "One-Quarter Jews"? "One-Eighth Jews"? Etc.?

What about fundamentalist Christians who strongly and publicly commit themselves to support of Israel? You know, sort of "honorary Jews"?

See what a morass this outlook leads you into, CG? Even the Nazis could never pin down a "rational" definition of the category "Jew" and they really tried. Toward the end of World War II, "Ayran Certificates" were actually on sale in the German black market...you can easily imagine what would happen to your scheme now.

Oh yes, I forgot. What exactly is a "powerful position" in the U.S. Government? If you had any idea of how a government bureaucracy actually works, you'd be quite surprised at how far down the civil servant grades your measures would have to proceed.

If you want to condemn the U.S.-Israel axis in the Middle East, a lot of people here and elsewhere would agree with you.

If you think some kind of up-dated version of the 1935 Nuremburg Laws will solve the problem, your only support will come from neo-Nazi nutballs.

Is that really what you want?

:cool:

[mentalbunny]

CG, why can't you see the mistakes you are making? What has given you this mindset? Why must you generalise in this manner? Why are you so ignorant?

[Totalitarian]

The fact that Jews are virtually immune to criticism in the US, the fact that speaking out about Jewish power is decried as antisemitism, is perhaps the best indiciation of the extent of their collective influence.

Most of you should already know of the vast zionist influence in the USA, are you not aware that zionism is Jewish?

According to the US census, Jews make up 2.5% of the American population. Yet 10% of Congressional representatives are Jewish.

www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/
Continuing government deregulation of the telecommunications industry has resulted, not in the touted increased competition, but rather in an accelerating wave of corporate mergers and acquisitions that have produced a handful of multi-billion-dollar media conglomerates. The largest of these conglomerates are rapidly growing even bigger by consuming their competition, almost tripling in size during the 1990s. Whenever you watch television, whether from a local broadcasting station or via a cable or a satellite dish; whenever you see a feature film in a theater or at home; whenever you listen to the radio or to recorded music; whenever you read a newspaper, book, or magazine -- it is very likely that the information or entertainment you receive was produced and/or distributed by one of these megamedia companies.

The largest media conglomerate today is AOL-Time Warner, created when AOL bought Time Warner for $160 billion in 2000. The merger brought together Steve Case, a Gentile, as chairman of AOL-TW, and Time Warner chairman Gerald Levin, a Jew, as the CEO. Although AOL-TW isn't (yet) run entirely by Jews, the effect of this blend of leadership between a White capitalist whose biggest concern is money and a racially conscious Jew will be gradually to increase the Jewish influence within AOL. Steve Case won't complain when Gerald Levin begins hiring mostly Jews to fill key positions beneath him because Case's own profits won't be affected. After Case dies or retires, the Jews will have complete control at AOL.

Before the merger, AOL was the largest Internet service provider in America, and it will now be used as an online platform for the Jewish content from Time Warner.

Time Warner, Inc., with 1997 revenues of more than $13 billion, was the second largest of the international media leviathans when it was bought by AOL. Levin, chairman and CEO of Time Warner, had bought Turner Broadcasting Systems in 1996 from Ted Turner, who had been one of the few Gentile entrepreneurs in the media business. Ted Turner, as the company president, became the number three man at AOL-TW, after Case and Levin.

When Ted Turner, the Gentile media maverick, made a bid to buy CBS in 1985, there was panic in media boardrooms across the nation. Turner had made a fortune in advertising and then had built a successful cable-TV news network, CNN, with over 70 million subscribers. Although Turner employed a number of Jews in key executive positions in CNN and had never taken public positions contrary to Jewish interests, he is a man with a large ego and a strong personality and was regarded by Chairman William Paley and the other Jews at CBS as uncontrollable: a loose cannon who might at some time in the future turn against them. Furthermore, Jewish newsman Daniel Schorr, who had worked for Turner, publicly charged that his former boss held a personal dislike for Jews.

To block Turner's bid, CBS executives invited billionaire Jewish theater, hotel, insurance, and cigarette magnate Laurence Tisch to launch a "friendly" takeover of the company, and from 1986 until 1995 Tisch was the chairman and CEO of CBS, removing any threat of non-Jewish influence there. Subsequent efforts by Turner to acquire a major network were obstructed by Levin's Time Warner, which owns nearly 20 percent of CBS stock and has veto power over major deals. When his fellow Jew Sumner Redstone offered to buy CBS for $34.8 billion in 1999, Levin had no objection.

Thus, despite being an innovator and garnering headlines, Turner never commanded the "connections" necessary for being a true media master. He finally decided if you can't lick 'em, join 'em, and he sold out to Levin. Ted Turner is in one respect a reflection of Steve Case. Both of these White men are capitalists with no discernible degree of racial consciousness or responsibility. In July 2001, AOL Time Warner announced that yet another Jew, Walter Isaacson, formerly the editorial director of Time, Inc., will become the new chairman and CEO of CNN News Group, which oversees the news empire that Ted Turner built.

Time Warner's subsidiary HBO is the country's largest pay-TV cable network. Until the purchase in May 1998 of PolyGram by Edgar Bronfman, Jr., Warner Music was America's largest record company, with 50 labels, the biggest of which is Warner Brothers Records. Warner Music was an early promoter of "gangsta rap." Through its involvement with Interscope Records (prior to Interscope's acquisition by MCA), it helped to popularize a genre whose graphic lyrics explicitly urge Blacks to commit acts of violence against Whites.

In addition to cable and music, Time Warner is heavily involved in the production of feature films (Warner Brothers Studio, Castle Rock Entertainment, and New Line Cinema) and in publishing. Time Warner's publishing division (editor-in-chief Norman Pearlstine, a Jew) is the largest magazine publisher in the country (Time, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune).

The second-largest media conglomerate today, with 1997 revenues of $23 billion, is the Walt Disney Company. Its chairman and CEO, Michael Eisner, is a Jew. The Disney empire, headed by a man described by one media analyst as "a control freak," includes several television production companies (Walt Disney Television, Touchstone Television, Buena Vista Television) and cable networks with more than 100 million subscribers altogether.

As for feature films, the Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group, under Walt Disney Studios, headed by Joseph E. Roth (also a Jew), includes Walt Disney Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, and Caravan Pictures. Roth founded Caravan Pictures in January 1993, and it is now headed by his fellow Jew Roger Birnbaum. Disney also owns Miramax Films, run by the Weinstein brothers, Bob and Harvey, who have produced such ultra-raunchy movies as The Crying Game, Priest, and Kids.

When the Disney Company was run by the Gentile Disney family, prior to its takeover by Eisner in 1984, it epitomized wholesome, family entertainment. While it still holds the rights to Snow White, the company under Eisner has expanded into the production of a great deal of so-called "adult" material.

In August 1995, Eisner acquired Capital Cities/ABC, Inc., which owns the ABC Television Network, which in turn owns ten TV stations outright in such big markets as New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Houston. In addition, it has 225 affiliated stations in the United States and is part owner of several European TV companies.

ABC's cable subsidiary, ESPN, is headed by president and CEO Steven Bornstein, who is a Jew. The corporation also has a controlling share of Lifetime Television and A & E Television Networks cable companies, with 67 million subscribers each. ABC Radio Network owns 26 AM and FM stations, again in major cities such as New York, Washington, and Los Angeles, and has over 3,400 affiliates.

Although primarily a telecommunications company, Capital Cities/ABC earned over $1 billion in publishing in 1997. It owns seven daily newspapers, Fairchild Publications (Women's Wear Daily), Chilton Publications (automotive manuals), and the Diversified Publishing Group.

Number three on the list, with 1997 revenues of just over $13 billion, is Viacom, Inc., headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein). Viacom, which produces and distributes TV programs for the three largest networks, owns 13 television stations and 12 radio stations. It produces feature films through Paramount Pictures, headed by Jewess Sherry Lansing. Redstone acquired CBS following the December 1999 stockholders' votes at CBS and Viacom.

Working for Redstone as CBS's chief executive is a Jew named Melvin A. Karmazin. He is the boss and biggest individual shareholder of the company that owns the CBS Television Network, 14 major-market TV stations, 160 radio stations, the Country Music Television and the Nashville Network cable channels, and a large number of outdoor advertising assets.

Viacom's publishing division includes Simon & Schuster, Scribner, The Free Press, and Pocket Books. It distributes videos through over 4,000 Blockbuster stores. It is also involved in satellite broadcasting, theme parks, and video games.

Viacom's chief claim to fame, however, is as the world's largest provider of cable programming, through its Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon, and other networks. Since 1989 MTV and Nickelodeon have acquired larger and larger shares of the juvenile television audience. The first quarter of 2001 was the 16th consecutive quarter in which MTV was rated as the #1 cable network for viewers between the ages of 12 and 24. Redstone, who actually owns 76 per cent of the shares of Viacom, has offered Beavis and Butthead as teen role models and currently is the largest single purveyor of race-mixing propaganda to White teenagers and sub-teens in America and in Europe. MTV Networks plans to acquire The Music Factory (TMF) from the Dutch media and marketing group Wegener. TMF distributes music to almost 10 million homes in Holland and Belgium. MTV is expanding its presence in Europe through new channels, including MTV Dance (Britain) and MTV Live (Scandinavia). MTV Italy is active through Cecchi Gori Communications. MTV pumps its racially mixed rock and rap videos into 210 million homes in 71 countries and is the dominant cultural influence on White teenagers around the world.

Nickelodeon, with about 65 million subscribers, has by far the largest share of the four-to-11-year-old TV audience in America and also is expanding rapidly into Europe. Most of its shows do not yet display the blatant degeneracy that is MTV's trademark, but Redstone is gradually nudging the fare presented to his kiddie viewers toward the same poison purveyed by MTV. As of early 2001, Nickelodeon was continuing a nine-year streak as the top cable network for children and younger teenagers.

Another Jewish media mogul is Edgar Bronfman, Jr. He headed Seagram Company, Ltd., the liquor giant, until its recent merger with Vivendi. His father, Edgar Bronfman, Sr., is president of the World Jewish Congress. Seagram owned Universal Studios and Interscope Records, the foremost promoter of "gangsta rap." These companies now belong to Vivendi Universal.

Bronfman became the biggest man in the record business in May 1998 when he also acquired control of PolyGram, the European record giant, by paying $10.6 billion to the Dutch electronics manufacturer Philips. With the revenue from PolyGram added to that from MCA and Universal, Bronfman became master of the fourth largest media empire, with annual revenues around $12 billion. One especially unfortunate aspect of the PolyGram acquisition was that it gave Bronfman control of the world's largest producer of classical music CDs: PolyGram owns the Deutsche Grammophon, Decca-London, and Philips record companies.

In June 2000, the Bronfman family sold Seagram to Vivendi, a French utilities company led by gentile Jean-Marie Messier. The combined company, Vivendi Universal, will retain Edgar Bronfman, Jr., as the vice chairman of the new company, and he will continue to be in charge of its entertainment division. The strategy for this merger seems to mirror that of AOL-Time Warner: infect and wait. Vivendi Universal will pay off the debts it assumed in the merger by selling Seagram's alcohol business, retaining its media empire.

With two of the top four media conglomerates in the hands of Jews, and with Jews in executive charge of the remaining two, it is difficult to believe that such an overwhelming degree of control came about without a deliberate, concerted effort on their part.

What about the other big media companies?

Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, which owns Fox Television Network, 20th Century Fox Films, and Fox 2000, is the fifth largest megamedia corporation in the country, with 1997 revenues of over $11 billion. It is the only other media company that comes even close to the top four. Murdoch is a Gentile Australian, but Peter Chernin, who is president and CEO of Fox Group, which includes all of News Corporation's film, television, and publishing operations in the United States, is a Jew. Under Chernin, as president of 20th Century Fox, is Laura Ziskin, a Jewess who formerly headed Fox 2000. Jew Peter Roth works under Chernin as president of Fox Entertainment. News Corporation also owns the New York Post and TV Guide, and they are published under Chernin's supervision. Murdoch told Newsweek magazine (July 12, 1999) that he would probably elevate Chernin to CEO of News Corporation, rather than allow the company to fall into the hands of his own children, none of whom are younger than their late twenties. It is hard to imagine a Jew giving a major media corporation to a Gentile underling when he has children waiting in the wings. For his part, Chernin was quite candid: "I get to control movies seen all over the world. . . . What could be more fun?"

Most of the television and movie production companies that are not owned by the largest corporations are also controlled by Jews. For example, New World Entertainment, proclaimed by one media analyst as "the premier independent TV program producer in the United States," is owned by Ronald Perelman, a Jew who also owns Revlon cosmetics and who offered a job to Monica Lewinsky when Bill Clinton was trying to keep her quiet.

The best known of the smaller media companies, DreamWorks SKG, is a strictly kosher affair. DreamWorks was formed in 1994 amid great media hype by recording industry mogul David Geffen, former Disney Pictures chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg, and film director Steven Spielberg, all three of whom are Jews. The company produces movies, animated films, television programs, and recorded music. Considering the cash and connections that Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg have, DreamWorks may soon be in the same league as the big four.

It is well known that Jews have controlled most of the production and distribution of films since shortly after the inception of the movie industry in the early decades of the 20th century. When Walt Disney died in 1966, the last barrier to the total Jewish domination of Hollywood was gone, and Jews were able to grab ownership of the company that Walt built. Since then they have had everything their way in the movie industry.

Films produced by just the four largest motion picture companies mentioned above -- Disney, Warner Brothers, Paramount (Viacom), and Universal (Seagram) -- accounted for two-thirds of the total box-office receipts for the year 1997.

As for the war on iraq, the only country which would benefit from this invasion is the state of israel.

Alot of people realise that it is "neoconservatives" who have been lobbying hardest for this war, way before 9/11.

What most people don't realise however is that almost all of these "neoconservative" intellectuals (a combination of pro-war academics, media folk & government officials) are Jewish, or pro-israel Gentiles of some description.

Justin Raimondo has written extensively on the zionist connection to the coming war. His articles called "Behind the Headlines" can be found on the site below.

http://www.antiwar.com

[Reuben]

Are you a complete idiot.

The source for that article was the NATIONAL ALLIANCE - a fascist/nazi grop in America.

That is why it was basically outlining the jewish conspiracy theory. No this article was not simply commenting on Jewish power, it was talking about a 'concerted effort by jews. There is no concerted effort by the jews of america, no conspiracy. And the fact that someone on this site would align themselves with one of the most danerous racial myths of the twentieth century is beyond me

[Reuben]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 2:17 am on Mar. 21, 2003
.

Most of you should already know of the vast zionist influence in the USA, are you not aware that zionism is Jewish?



This has to be the most flawed argument I have seen. Does the fact that modern conservatism was initiated by whites mean that whie influnce is synonymous with conservative influence.

Just because zionism was initiated by jews DOES NOT mean that you can equate jew with zionist, evn if a majority of jews support zionism. Zionism is a political movemenet, which some jews oppose and which many christians support. The fact that zionism was initiated by jews does not justify attacking equating jews with zionists. You should not be looking at how man jews are influential. You should be looking at whether they are zionist.

The article yo posted treated jews as one homogeneous mass - ie saying 'The jews made aa grab for power, the jews did this, the jews did that...' I would not talk about the whit agnlo-saxon community in those terms, so why is it accetable to attack the jews collectively as if they are all the same doing the same thing.

Respond

[redstar2000]

This thread gets worse and worse. Why isn't it in Opposing Idelogies?

Indeed, why is this NAZI SHIT on this board at all?

:angry:

[Reuben]

#Moderation Mode

Topic moved to opposing ideologies.

Moved here (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1854)

[Totalitarian]

Reuben:

Yes i am aware of the racialist source of that article, and apart from the ethnic generalisations it simply lists the major media organisations with jewish bosses. It appears that the mass media is dominated by jews, and this would help explain the biased support for zionism in the media.

Jews are highly successful and rich as a group, representing a significant and disproportionate part of the bourgeoisie.

I also was not claiming that zionist was synonomous with jew, and yes most zionists are actually christian. But zionism has its basis in judaism.

Judaism is a racially based religion, and jewish DNA is said to be 'holy' in the torah.

If jews have disproportionate power over the capitalist system, this needs to be made clear does it not?

Of course this does not mean that all jews think alike.

[redstar2000]

"Judaism is a racially based religion and jewish DNA is said to be 'holy' in the Torah."

Yes, that bunch of semi-literate superstitious nutballs who couldn't even put together a coherent "holy book" nevertheless knew all about DNA 2,500 years before it was discovered and figured out which base-pairs were "jewish" and declared them "holy".

And Judaism is a "racial" religion; why you can tell just by looking at them. They only come in every damn "color" of the human species.

You, Totalitarian, are a total ass!

:angry:

[synthesis]

the fact that speaking out about Jewish power is decried as antisemitism, is perhaps the best indiciation of the extent of their collective influence. Or the best indication that there are actually some decent people out there.

[Ymir]

Redstar, Judaism is a racist religion because the Jews believe themselves superior to all other people. I think that was what Totalitarian was referring to.

The reason why people refer to Jews as an almost collective whole is because they have such a small population in the USA but much of that population has high positions in society, and much of them are in the media business. It would make sense if they were the majority of the population but they are not, they are a very slim minority (who happens to control the majority of the media).

[Totalitarian]

RedStar2000:

They didn't know about DNA of course, but any primitive human tribe has some conception of genetic material and matrilineal descent.



'the people of Israel, and the priests and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands, doing according to their abominations.... For they have taken of their daughters for themselves and for their sons; so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the peoples of the lands' (Ezra 9:2).

The reason i say judaism is a racial religion, is not only the obsession with blood purity evident throughout the torah, but the rules regarding who exacly is a jew.

A jew, according to judaism, is someone who has at least one jewish grandmother. The reason for using matrilineal descent is so that one can tell with certainty that the person has jewish ancestry. The state of israel also uses these rules to determine israeli nationality.

The definition has nothing to do with religion, but it is to do with descent, although atheist jews are encouraged to follow judaic religious law and goyim occassionally convert to become proselyte jews.

Although jews come from a variety of racial backgrounds, 90% are part of the ashkenazi ethnic group, which is very genetically homogenous.

Another 8-9% are sephardic jews, who are from a different racial background than the ashkenazim but are still more closely related to them than they are to arabs.

So most jews are actually of very similar race.

[CheGuevara]

Isn't that very clever of you, Reuben? Throwing your moderator balls around, and moving this topic to the nazi forum?

Just face it, thousands of people are dying in Iraq this very minute because of the Jews in America and the oil men.

[synthesis]

Throwing your moderator balls around, and moving this topic to the nazi forum? Astute observation you've got there.

[CheGuevara]

It's a very touchy subject for him...he's jewish, and he has great difficulty discussing it in a logical manner, so he shoves it off here, to be ignored by the majority of leftist forum members who don't frequent this pit, such as myself, the realm of illogical conversation.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:33 am on Mar. 22, 2003)

[Anonymous]

He does have a point.

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=22&topic=1792 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1792)

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 10:55 am on Mar. 15, 2003
Sure, they deserve a place. But let's keep in mind they only make up 2% of the population. Meanwhile, Latinos make up over 13% of the population (that general population statistic does not include many undocumented immigrants), and we don't have 1/10th the fucking influence that Jews do in the US federal govt. When the numbers are this disproportionate, you can't just fucking ignore them. Unless you're racist....

As for you, Reuben, I'll display a little part of our AIM chit-chat....

Itsik Feffer: its not our fault that we do so well in meritocratic conditions

See, Reuben's willing to accept the positive generalizations, but not the negative ones. Ah, I love the smell ofa contradiction in the morning....

(Edited by CheGuevara at 10:58 am on Mar. 15, 2003)


Who cares if Jews run the government as long as its not ass holes like you!!!

Any way surely they are elected to government...

[Reuben]

I wanted to keep it where it was CheG but moved it here after requests from other members and after articles from the nationalist alliance, that went way further thean CheGs claim by actaully indicting jews of being part of a conspiracy (this word was not used but it did talk of a 'concerted effort by jews' and 'the jews making a grab' in other words collective indictmentss)

The rules clearly state that anti-semitism is not legitimate on this site. Given the overtly anti-semitic statements on this thread and in the articles posted (ethnic preferences about who should be in governement, the jews being described as our gag and chains) here have been understandable calls in the CC for certain members to be banned. I have just moved the thread.

[Reuben]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 1:34 am on Mar. 22, 2003
Reuben:

Yes i am aware of the racialist source of that article, and apart from the ethnic generalisations it simply lists the major media organisations with jewish bosses. It appears that the mass media is dominated by jews, and this would help explain the biased support for zionism in the media.

Jews are highly successful and rich as a group, representing a significant and disproportionate part of the bourgeoisie.

I also was not claiming that zionist was synonomous with jew, and yes most zionists are actually christian. But zionism has its basis in judaism.

Judaism is a racially based religion, and jewish DNA is said to be 'holy' in the torah.

If jews have disproportionate power over the capitalist system, this needs to be made clear does it not?

Of course this does not mean that all jews think alike.


I recognize that a diproportionate amount of the media is owned by jews. Yet this does not in an way justify the overtly anti-jewish remarks made by CheG and those made in the article you posted which attack and indict jews as a collective. I feel that you should distance yourself from these remarks. Similarly if i was was arguing a point aboutdisproportionate black involvement in any area of US life i would be more responsiblethan to illustrat my argument with a disgustingly racist article such as the one you posted.


As i said before, i have political and economic preferences about who should enjoy political power but not ETHNIC preferences, you evidently do.

I am a jew and a socialist and do have family in america, some of who are active socialsis and anti-war activists. I find it incredibly offensive that a so called socialist such as CheG would bmake such viscious attacks on the jewish community and that you, totalitarian, would uncritically post an article accusing jews of a concerted effort and saying that 'the jews (not an individual jew but th 'the jews') have made a grab for power.

I urge you totalitarian to distance yourself from these comments and those of CheG

[Cassius Clay]

Jesus what a fucking thread.

I wonder why so many people have such a 'dislike' of the Jews. Not just here but in real life to, people who are otherwise fairly intelligent and decent people I know will often speak of the Jewish people with language that well isn't very pleasant.

Obviously the situation in Isreal has something to do with it, the fact that the Jews weren't the only people to die in the war let alone the holocaust and ofcourse the fact that like it or not Jews (or should I say supporters of the state of Isreal) have a disproptionate infulence in the American government.

This is not to say that all Jews should suddenly be expelled or whatever, far from it. The Cubans in Miami also have a big infulence over American policy in regard to Cuba than they really should have if America is a democracy (where the hell did that idea come from?). Does that mean all Cubans are bad? Ofcourse it doesn't.

Reuban you say that you as a Jew and alot of your relatives are against the Isreali crimes in Palestine. I don't doubt that and all credit to you. However this is not what people see, on British TV and media all I see is Jews young or old, women or men not only defending Isreal but almost allowing no criticisms of it's policy's. Hell I get infuriate by one programme I saw (Question time I think) where the stupid statements coming from these particular people were so full of ignorance and blindness that you would think they KKK folks explaining how 'Niggers' were inferior.

But comeon guys, what have you lot got against the Jews pacificly? I hate Judaism probably as much as you, but I also hate Christianity and Islam infact all religion is bad.

There's a old saying 'Not all Nazis are Germans and not all Germans are Nazis'. Get the point.

For those ignorant supporters of Isreal we solve it through education and debate. For those folks who actively supply Isreal with it's weapons and tools of rascism a firing squard or a period of labour in prison will do. Whether they be ehthnic Jews who are Zionists or Fundamentalist Christians.

[Totalitarian]

Reuben:

I do not think there is a collective plan by "the Jews" to grab onto power, or to control the populace. Just as there is no conspiracy by "the Whites" to impose "white racism" on people of colour.

I also personally know many jewish people and get on with them well, and do not think they are plotting against me.

The jews that i distrust and sometimes dislike are jewish zionist politicians/lobbyists, supremacist rabbis, and the many jews involved in usury capitalism.

It appears to me that jews tend to have very cohesive group loyalty, they will help their own as the saying goes "is it good for the Jews?"

The effect of this is that the bastards and fanatics in the group often get away with alot of deception, because they use the power of the group to brand those who expose them as antisemitic.

My main problem with the jewish people (not all individuals) is the separatist and supremacist nature of many of their religious teachings. Many rabbis claim that non-jews are subhuman, or as one put it "a million arabs aren't worth one jewish fingernail".

I don't mind people wanting to preserve their race/ethnicity and have self-determination, because i'm in favour of human biodiversity, but i think with judaism it just goes a little too far sometimes and right now we can see this increased conflict emerging mainly because of zionism.

I do think there is a jewish problem, but it needs to be solved through love and understanding, not irrational means like genocide and hatred (the Nazi solution)

There's a site below with articles and essays about jewish power, its a left-wing site and has mostly jewish sources.

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org

[Edelweiss]

This thread is making me really sick. Full of anti-semitic clichés and blatant stupidities.
Totalitarian, this is a last warning: If you'll post Nazi propagandha here one more time, I'll ban you right away. For now I have restricted you to OI, along with CG.

[Totalitarian]

Are you referring to the link i posted from National Alliance?

[redstar2000]

For the record, I was one of the people who requested that this thread be moved to Opposing Ideologies and I am not "Jewish"...no matter what weird definition you want to use for that.

In fact, I think threads like this should be deleted upon the initial posting...because there is no rational debate possible with anti-semites any more than there is rational debate possible with any other kind of racist.

Imagine, for a moment, a reverse version of this thread. What would be the reaction if an Israeli ideologue started a thread "Jews Rule--Goyim Suck!" Suppose it went on to point out in detail how non-Jews control 90 or more per cent of the world's wealth...even though the biological superiority of Jews over non-Jews was "obvious". Etc. Etc.

What could be the "rational" response to such assertions? What can be the rational response to any form of biological racism?

Racist "ideas" are not really ideas at all in the sense that communism or capitalism are ideas. It's rare to have a rational debate with capitalists...it is at least theoretically possible.

How do you rationally debate someone who thinks the "Jews" are a "race"? I suspect that if someone were to go to the enormous trouble of DNA-profiling every "Jew" in Israel and every "Jew" in the United States, what you'd get is a range close to or exceeding 80 per cent of the human species. If you want to look at it in the fucked-up way that CG and Totalitarian look at things, 80 per cent plus of the human species share "Jewish genes" and thus are "biological Jews"...almost certainly including them!

See what a morass of stupidity this is?

Some conservative rabbis have argued that Judaism is a "tribal religion" and that conversion to Judaism is "adoption into the tribe" (very conservative rabbis won't do conversions for that reason). The social cohesion among Jews that non-Jews observe and anti-semites are so frightened of may be a product of this conflation of tribalism and religion.

But, so what? Does anyone believe that a modern secular Jewish capitalist would hire an incompetent Jew over a competent non-Jew? One of the progressive aspects of capitalism is that it eats away at pre-capitalist mind-sets--like quasi-tribalism--the way acid eats metals. Capitalist ideologues find racism useful as a method of social control of the working class--you can see how well it's worked with CG and Totalitarian--but they don't, for a second, allow racism to interfere with their own plans for profit. In the end, they must hire on the basis of how productive a worker potentially is...or some other capitalist will do it and the racist will be a dead duck. They like it when workers are racist, just like they like it when workers are patriotic or religious...they just don't allow those kinds of stupidity to interfere with their own plans.

Why, therefore, should we allow such stupidities to interfere with our plans?

:cool:

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 2:53 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
For the record, I was one of the people who requested that this thread be moved to Opposing Ideologies and I am not "Jewish"...no matter what weird definition you want to use for that.

In fact, I think threads like this should be deleted upon the initial posting...because there is no rational debate possible with anti-semites any more than there is rational debate possible with any other kind of racist.

Imagine, for a moment, a reverse version of this thread. What would be the reaction if an Israeli ideologue started a thread "Jews Rule--Goyim Suck!" Suppose it went on to point out in detail how non-Jews control 90 or more per cent of the world's wealth...even though the biological superiority of Jews over non-Jews was "obvious". Etc. Etc.

What could be the "rational" response to such assertions? What can be the rational response to any form of biological racism?

Racist "ideas" are not really ideas at all in the sense that communism or capitalism are ideas. It's rare to have a rational debate with capitalists...it is at least theoretically possible.

How do you rationally debate someone who thinks the "Jews" are a "race"? I suspect that if someone were to go to the enormous trouble of DNA-profiling every "Jew" in Israel and every "Jew" in the United States, what you'd get is a range close to or exceeding 80 per cent of the human species. If you want to look at it in the fucked-up way that CG and Totalitarian look at things, 80 per cent plus of the human species share "Jewish genes" and thus are "biological Jews"...almost certainly including them!

See what a morass of stupidity this is?

Some conservative rabbis have argued that Judaism is a "tribal religion" and that conversion to Judaism is "adoption into the tribe" (very conservative rabbis won't do conversions for that reason). The social cohesion among Jews that non-Jews observe and anti-semites are so frightened of may be a product of this conflation of tribalism and religion.

But, so what? Does anyone believe that a modern secular Jewish capitalist would hire an incompetent Jew over a competent non-Jew? One of the progressive aspects of capitalism is that it eats away at pre-capitalist mind-sets--like quasi-tribalism--the way acid eats metals. Capitalist ideologues find racism useful as a method of social control of the working class--you can see how well it's worked with CG and Totalitarian--but they don't, for a second, allow racism to interfere with their own plans for profit. In the end, they must hire on the basis of how productive a worker potentially is...or some other capitalist will do it and the racist will be a dead duck. They like it when workers are racist, just like they like it when workers are patriotic or religious...they just don't allow those kinds of stupidity to interfere with their own plans.

Why, therefore, should we allow such stupidities to interfere with our plans?

:cool:

I agree with Redstar2000

CheGuevara Please leave i dont think anyone on this board wants to talk to you as you are a racist. In fact i am amazed Malte has not banned you!

[Ymir]

I don't recall anyone making a 'biological superiority' argument against Jews in this thread so far. The anti-Jewish arguments have had more facts than Malte, redstar, and reuben.

One idea is that racial conflict only seperate the proletariat, so he can be kept from uniting against the bourgeoisie. Most Jews are not proletariat, they are bourgeois. You can not argue against it,
MOST JEWS ARE BOURGEOIS

By attacking Jews, you are attacking some of the most powerful bourgeoisie.

That is my argument, from a Marxist perspective.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Ymir on 3:21 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
I don't recall anyone making a 'biological superiority' argument against Jews in this thread so far. The anti-Jewish arguments have had more facts than Malte, redstar, and reuben.

One idea is that racial conflict only seperate the proletariat, so he can be kept from uniting against the bourgeoisie. Most Jews are not proletariat, they are bourgeois. You can not argue against it,
MOST JEWS ARE BOURGEOIS

By attacking Jews, you are attacking some of the most powerful bourgeoisie.

That is my argument, from a Marxist perspective.

Yes but by that view you could attack most white anglo saxon protestants because make up most of the upper classes and a large preportion of the middle classes.

That is truly a stupid argument to put social classes into race segregation. Come on with pathetic posts like that do you expect to be taken seriously.

[Ymir]

The anglo saxons as a racial group are more diffused within the economic system, Jews are not.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 12:13 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
Are you referring to the link i posted from National Alliance?


Yes, I am.

[Mazdak]

Join the club Totalitarian.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Ymir on 5:01 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
The anglo saxons as a racial group are more diffused within the economic system, Jews are not.


possibly...

[Reuben]

Ymir, you attack may fall on some members of the jewish bourgoirsie, yor attack will also fall on me and my family all of whom are activists wh odo what we an to suport socialsm and justice.

please do not advocate 'attacking the jews' on the basis this simply constitutes an attack on the jews you anti-semitic little shit

[Just Joe]

Quote: from Ymir on 3:21 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
I don't recall anyone making a 'biological superiority' argument against Jews in this thread so far. The anti-Jewish arguments have had more facts than Malte, redstar, and reuben.

One idea is that racial conflict only seperate the proletariat, so he can be kept from uniting against the bourgeoisie. Most Jews are not proletariat, they are bourgeois. You can not argue against it,
MOST JEWS ARE BOURGEOIS

By attacking Jews, you are attacking some of the most powerful bourgeoisie.

That is my argument, from a Marxist perspective.


this has to be the dumbest argument i've seen in a long time. the reason there are few 'prolaterian' jews is that they were virtually all fucking wiped out by people with the same anti-semitic attitude as yourself.

and you trying to justify it from a Marxist perspective only adds to your stupidity. you joke.

[Ymir]

I advocate attacking the bourgeois, if a good portion of the Jewish population is a part of the bourgeois, then they will be attacked. But then I suppose most local socialists do not understand the necessity of violence.

Just Joe-
"the reason there are few 'prolaterian' jews is that they were virtually all fucking wiped out by people with the same anti-semitic attitude as yourself. "

I would not kill proletarians because they are Jewish.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 2:53 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
How do you rationally debate someone who thinks the "Jews" are a "race"? I suspect that if someone were to go to the enormous trouble of DNA-profiling every "Jew" in Israel and every "Jew" in the United States, what you'd get is a range close to or exceeding 80 per cent of the human species.

I didn't actually say that Jews are a race. There are two main "races" (or tribal ethnicities if you like) within judaism, these are the ashkenazim and sephardim who together make up about 99% of judaism.

Genetic studies have found that ashkenazi jews are a genetically homogenous group, there is even a genetic disease known as Tay-Sachs disease, which is only found to any significant degree amongst the ashkenazi jews.

Jewish blood is considered to be holy according to the torah, and the definition of a jew is to be found in judaic law, and the Law of Return used by the state of israel. They use a racial distinction (based on ancestry) although there are also occasionally conversions, but these are not encouraged by orthodox rabbis as you pointed out.

"Racial" to me simply means based on a certain line of descent/common ancestry.

In my opinion, you have hysterically over-reacted to what i said. You say that i am racist for pointing out that jews use mainly a racial distinction to determine who is and isn't part of their group, judaism is itself based on a concept of racial superiority.

Observe the quote below by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. There is lots more as well.

The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: "Let us differentiate." Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of "let us differentiate" between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world. [...] The Jewish body "looks as if it were in substance similar to bodies of non-Jews," but the meaning ... is that the bodies only seem to be similar in material substance, outward look and superficial quality. The difference of inner quality, however, is so great that the bodies should be considered as completely different species. [...] A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews. [...] A non-Jew's entire reality is only vanity. It is written, "And the strangers shall stand and feed your flocks" [Isaiah 61:5]. The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson quoted in Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky, Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, Pluto Press, London and Sterling Virginia, 1999, pp. 59-60.
http://www.ukar.org/levant/levant03.html

[Zombie]

The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: "Let us differentiate." Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of "let us differentiate" between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world. [...] The Jewish body "looks as if it were in substance similar to bodies of non-Jews," but the meaning ... is that the bodies only seem to be similar in material substance, outward look and superficial quality. The difference of inner quality, however, is so great that the bodies should be considered as completely different species. [...] A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews. [...] A non-Jew's entire reality is only vanity. It is written, "And the strangers shall stand and feed your flocks" [Isaiah 61:5]. The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews
this is pure racial sickness. fuck that rabbi.
but noticing he's a fundamentalist, why do u want to generalise cases such as his, to the entire jew community? every religion has fanatism and fundamentalism and whatever name u can call them... so?

[CheGuevara]

Damn, even old Malte Liquor is controlled by the Jews and their sympathizers. Another guilt-stricken German, tsk tsk tsk...If you want to mope around in the sin's of your father, Malte, go ahead, but keep it out of the forum, you fucking politically correct pussy.......no me importa, me puedo escapar este agujero por usar otros apodos. Pero, desgraciadamente, no tengo tantas computadoras como hay judíos que se meten los dedos arriba el culo de Malte.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from Zombie on 4:36 am on Mar. 23, 2003
[quote][b]this is pure racial sickness. fuck that rabbi.
but noticing he's a fundamentalist, why do u want to generalise cases such as his, to the entire jew community? every religion has fanatism and fundamentalism and whatever name u can call them... so?

I wasn't claiming that all jews hold the same belief, but this guy has gleaned his interpretation from jewish religious texts, and he is definitely not the only one to do so. There are many rabbis who say similar things, especially in israel, and they inspire thousands of jews.

There is clearly a supremacist strain running through aspects of judaism, one that is rarely denounced in the public arena. In fact, jews like Schneerson enjoy a fair bit of prestige.

Perhaps Schneerson is simply more overt than most religious jews.....

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 7:13 pm on Mar. 22, 2003

Quote: from Ymir on 3:21 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
I don't recall anyone making a 'biological superiority' argument against Jews in this thread so far. The anti-Jewish arguments have had more facts than Malte, redstar, and reuben.

One idea is that racial conflict only seperate the proletariat, so he can be kept from uniting against the bourgeoisie. Most Jews are not proletariat, they are bourgeois. You can not argue against it,
MOST JEWS ARE BOURGEOIS

By attacking Jews, you are attacking some of the most powerful bourgeoisie.

That is my argument, from a Marxist perspective.


this has to be the dumbest argument i've seen in a long time. the reason there are few 'prolaterian' jews is that they were virtually all fucking wiped out by people with the same anti-semitic attitude as yourself.

and you trying to justify it from a Marxist perspective only adds to your stupidity. you joke.


My god we are in agreement again i thought we decided not to let it happen again...

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:01 am on Mar. 23, 2003
Damn, even old Malte Liquor is controlled by the Jews and their sympathizers. Another guilt-stricken German, tsk tsk tsk...If you want to mope around in the sin's of your father, Malte, go ahead, but keep it out of the forum, you fucking politically correct pussy.......no me importa, me puedo escapar este agujero por usar otros apodos. Pero, desgraciadamente, no tengo tantas computadoras como hay judíos que se meten los dedos arriba el culo de Malte.


Che-Lives, part of the "Jewish conspiarcy". LOL

CG, du kleines lächerliches Arschloch, verpiss dich aus dem Forum, und komme nie wieder! Am besten zu Foren wie ***************, dort wirst du viele Gleichgesinnte finden, du Pseudolinker antisemitischer Haufen Scheiße!

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Malte on 11:09 am on Mar. 23, 2003

Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:01 am on Mar. 23, 2003
Damn, even old Malte Liquor is controlled by the Jews and their sympathizers. Another guilt-stricken German, tsk tsk tsk...If you want to mope around in the sin's of your father, Malte, go ahead, but keep it out of the forum, you fucking politically correct pussy.......no me importa, me puedo escapar este agujero por usar otros apodos. Pero, desgraciadamente, no tengo tantas computadoras como hay judíos que se meten los dedos arriba el culo de Malte.


Che-Lives, part of the "Jewish conspiarcy". LOL

CG, du kleines lächerliches Arschoch, verpiss dich aus dem Forum, und komme nie wieder! Am besten zu Foren wie ***************, dort wirst du viele Gleichgesinnte finden, du Pseudolinker anti-semitischer Haufen Scheiße!

err can some one translate???

[mentalbunny]

The bourgeoisie are not the problem, it's the fat cats, the CEO's, the corporate top dogs who need sorting out, the borgeoisie can think for themselves when given all the info, at least that's my opinion.

it's all about morals and ethics really, I've been brought up to be ethical, my parents are both Christians and I hold the values of loving your enemy and giving, etc, without having faith in God, so in a way I'm a bit Buddhist.

We don't really need to attack anyone, just support smaller, ethical organisations so they can grow but continue to be ethical (eg fair trade and organic produce, non-sweat shop clothes and the co-operative bank).

[Edelweiss]

And let me add this: Being a German, born more than 30 years after Auschwitz, I don't feel any guilt for what had happened during Hitler's rule in Germany.
Howver, I think as a German I still have a responsibility, the responsibility to not allow that it never happens again. And it belongs to that responibility that I will stand up against anti-semitism whereever I see it, especially in my own Internet forum, and if peudo-leftist fuckheads like CG, Ymir and Totalitarian are repeating Nazi propaganda and stupid anti-semitic clishes here, I have to do something aginst it.

Wehret den Anfängen!

[synthesis]

Quote: from Malte on 11:09 am on Mar. 23, 2003
...du Pseudolinker antisemitischer Haufen Scheiße!Heh, heh, I don't need to translate this one :biggrin: It's definately a keeper. I'm going to use this sometime, believe you me ;)

[Just Joe]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 11:40 am on Mar. 23, 2003
The bourgeoisie are not the problem, it's the fat cats, the CEO's, the corporate top dogs who need sorting out, the borgeoisie can think for themselves when given all the info, at least that's my opinion.

they are the bourgeisie. youre thinking bourgeisie are middle class, which they aren't.

[synthesis]

youre thinking bourgeisie are middle class, which they aren't.

Yeah, they are. They're not, however, middle class in the same sense as we see it today - lower-middle-upper class.

Little history lesson for you. The bourgeoisie were the original inhabitants of the bourg - the town, operating independantly of the feudal system. That's what it means, really. The guildsmen and the usurers are fine examples of early bourgeoisie.

This bourgeoisie has come to mean middle class in much the same way that Bolshevik has come to mean socialist. It's not what it means when directly translated, but it's what it means today. Obviously the National Bolsheviks are not the national majority ;)

They were called the middle class, of course, because they were lodged in between the power structure of the feudal serf and the nobility. Eventually, the bourgeoisie gained in strength; Venetian merchants were basically the sole agitators for the Fourth Crusade. They gained even more wealth because they lent money to colonialists operating independantly of the throne, and gained money if the colonialists succeeded. Almost a sort of a morbid proto-stock market, if you ask me.

Moving on, when the Industrial Revolution came along, the bourgeoisie was the class with both the resources (from usury and joint ventures) and the location (they lived in towns, which is where the factories were) to take advantage of the inventions.

Anyways, the bourgeoisie eventually subjugated the aristocratic landowning class (see: Hidalgo, the French Revolution, the American Civil War) and now owns the means of production.

Tidy, ain't it?


The bourgeoisie are not the problem, it's the fat cats, the CEO's, the corporate top dogs who need sorting out, the borgeoisie can think for themselves when given all the infoJoe, she's thinking of the petty-bourgeois, the lawyers, the bankers, the stock brokers. Those who do not directly own the means of production but whose interests it is in to repress the proletariat.

[Ymir]

One of my Jewish friend's parents are both Lawyers. I think I knew another Jewish person whose dad was a lawyer, I don't know his mother's occupation though. They definetly support Israel because a year ago their oldest son went there for a long time. BOURGEOIS!

Time and Time again the forum moderators ( and some lower ranking people) type insults and refer to ***************, most have shown little or no evidence against our accusations of the Jewish people!

and I quote,
"du kleines lächerliches Arschoch, verpiss dich aus dem Forum, und komme nie wieder! Am besten zu Foren wie ***************, dort wirst du viele Gleichgesinnte finden, du Pseudolinker antisemitischer Haufen Scheiße!"
Translated:
"you small ridiculous __?__, __?__ you from the forum, and never come back! To forums as ***************, there you will find many __?__ best, you to pseudoleft anti-Semitic heap of shit!"

~MALTE


"and you trying to justify it from a Marxist perspective only adds to your stupidity. you joke."

~JUST JOE

"you anti-semitic little shit"
~REUBEN

The "pseudoleftists" have given solid facts but Malte, Reuben, and Just Joe apparently want to have a flame war instead of an actual debate.

[Moskitto]

have any of you "Jews control the world" people thought that maybe Jews have got to the top of Media corporations because they don't whinge about a non-existant "White Conspiricy" all the time?

and Redstar is right, removing Jews from powerful positions in government is stupid. How the hell are you going to define what a Jew is? are you going to do a genetic test on everyone who's elected to congress or enters the civil service to see if they've got "Jew Genes"? or are you going to search everyone's DNA for similarities with Jews? yeah, 98% of human DNA is identical, so you'll get a lot of people with lots of similarities.

[Just Joe]

DyerMaker, this is one of the reasons i never use these silly outdated terms like 'bourgeois' or 'prolaterian'. because they can't be defined.

the Bourgeoise in todays terms are those who own the means of production. in other words, there are the very fat cats mentalbunny was talking about. they are the stockholders who own the companies we work for.

without sounding like an arse, i tend to define terms in todays sense, not in the sense of hundreds of years ago. the middle class hundreds of years ago was the Bourgeosie, but not anymore. they ceased to be the middle class once 'Bourgeois' revolutions took place in America and France, and then they consolodated there power during the industrial revolution.

the middle class today are those in a middle income bracket.

Ymir, you aint give any facts. the reason you get flamed is because youre views are racist. there is no point really trying to argue with racists because they have a mindset so distanced from sane people.

in fact it seems your 'evidence', is that you know a couple of Jews, and they happen to have comfortable jobs. well, lets break out the Zyklon then. we can't have people being lawyers now can we.

youre problem should be with Capitalists and Zionists.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Ymir on 2:48 pm on Mar. 23, 2003
One of my Jewish friend's parents are both Lawyers. I think I knew another Jewish person whose dad was a lawyer, I don't know his mother's occupation though. They definetly support Israel because a year ago their oldest son went there for a long time. BOURGEOIS!

Time and Time again the forum moderators ( and some lower ranking people) type insults and refer to ***************, most have shown little or no evidence against our accusations of the Jewish people!

and I quote,
"du kleines lächerliches Arschoch, verpiss dich aus dem Forum, und komme nie wieder! Am besten zu Foren wie ***************, dort wirst du viele Gleichgesinnte finden, du Pseudolinker antisemitischer Haufen Scheiße!"
Translated:
"you small ridiculous __?__, __?__ you from the forum, and never come back! To forums as ***************, there you will find many __?__ best, you to pseudoleft anti-Semitic heap of shit!"

~MALTE


"and you trying to justify it from a Marxist perspective only adds to your stupidity. you joke."

~JUST JOE

"you anti-semitic little shit"
~REUBEN

The "pseudoleftists" have given solid facts but Malte, Reuben, and Just Joe apparently want to have a flame war instead of an actual debate.


Well, ceratain things are just beyond discussion forme, and you won't get me to discuss the "Jewish world conspiracy" with me here. as said before, go to fucking stormfront, if you want to discuss shit like that, the Nazi's will love you.

[Invader Zim]

Well, ceratain things are just beyond discussion forme, and you won't get me to discuss the "Jewish world conspiracy" with me here. as said before, go to fucking stormfront, if you want to discuss shit like that, the Nazi's will love you.


Ban the racist Malte!

[Ymir]

"Ymir, you aint give any facts. the reason you get flamed is because youre views are racist. there is no point really trying to argue with racists because they have a mindset so distanced from sane people."

Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

To be racist, I would have to think that a particular race is superior to others, which I do not. I do acknowledge differences between people of different races. (And I acknowledge races EXIST, although they are slowly melting into one another, especially in the USA.)


"and you won't get me to discuss the Jewish world conspiracy with me here"

I never mentioned any conspiracy.


I hope you won't ban me for speaking the truth.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from Moskitto on 3:57 pm on Mar. 23, 2003
and Redstar is right, removing Jews from powerful positions in government is stupid. How the hell are you going to define what a Jew is? are you going to do a genetic test on everyone who's elected to congress or enters the civil service to see if they've got "Jew Genes"? or are you going to search everyone's DNA for similarities with Jews?

Not that i support pogroms against jews, but there would actually be no problem with trying to define who is a jew. The state of israel doesn't have any difficulty, nor do rabbinic authorities.

The Law of Return defines a jew as someone who either converted to judaism, or has at least 1/4 matrilineal jewish ancestry.


yeah, 98% of human DNA is identical, so you'll get a lot of people with lots of similarities.


Actually, it's more like 99.99%

[Totalitarian]

Below is an essay outlining the connection between Israel/Zionism and Gulf War II.
http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc1.htm

[Moskitto]

99.99% proves my point even more, rounding up people with a certain amount of Jewish DNA is going to rounding up monkeys as Jews, stupid genetic racialists.

[El Che]

Zionism is Jewish but Jewish is not Zionism.

Plus it is my personal belief that Jews generaly have power because generaly they are good at what they do. They are good at the Arts, science, making money, etc. This is not a crime is it?

Certainly corporative behaviors are suspicious and can pose all sort of threats depending on your point of view (i.e your own interests). But it`s important to realise that if you can`t stop a given corporative practice without violating the fundamental rights of the people involved, you SHOULDN`T.

[El Che]

And the realisation/indentification of a characteristic, positive, negative or neutral, generaly common to a racial group does not automaticaly infer that the characteristic in question has racial causes. The only way you can prove that, or present that as a hypothesis is by doing so in scientific terms.

I find it funny that we can`t make generalizations. We can if these generalizations are simply the expression of a fact and if we safeguard that they are generalizations . A estatistical fact simply is, it does not tell you anything about it`s self. Whatever conclusions you draw, no matter how straight foward they might seem, are not contained in the fact its self.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from El Che on 9:31 pm on Mar. 24, 2003

Plus it is my personal belief that Jews generaly have power because generaly they are good at what they do. They are good at the Arts, science, making money, etc. This is not a crime is it?

Can this same argument not apply to Whites?

[CheGuevara]

Hey Malte Liquor, look at this. 'El Che' is making generalizations about the Jews.

"Plus it is my personal belief that Jews generaly have power because generaly they are good at what they do. They are good at the Arts, science, making money, etc. This is not a crime is it?"

So the Che-Lives forum accepts positive generalizations, but if someone were to have the absolute hideous, despicable, nothing worse in the Guilty-German's world, inclination to call jews 'manipulative,' 'sneaky,' 'lazy,' or 'exploitative', it's a cause for banning? Let's be consistent here.

The dominance of one ethnic group is the detriment of another. My comments were simply about AMERICAN JEWS. I didn't claim that the war on Iraq was part of a large worldwide Jewish conspiracy. We know Blair joined in because he's GW Bush's chickenhead(no, sorry Malte, you won't find that slang in your English-German dictionary...see, you actually have to know a country to know what that means(i.e. you obviously don't know America if you don't think the Jews have a greatly disproportionate amount of power)...it's slang from the black community). If someone were to call the whites in apartheid South Africa disproportionately powerful, you would have fallen head over heels to agree with them. Why not when I say the same about Jews in the US?

(Edited by CheGuevara at 5:09 am on Mar. 25, 2003)

[Reuben]

Cheguevara, the example of south africa shows exactly why your essentialist racist opinions have no basis.

Nelson mandela and the ANC never attacked whites as a people or called for 100% non-white government (you called to oust every jew in a powrful position). In fact many of his allies and fellow ANC leaders white such as Joe Slovo, and when aprtheid fel he was happy to have whites who shared his political opinions in government.
Furthermore the analogy you use is of a society when the influence of one ethnic group was institutionalised through the disenfranchisement of black voters. This is not the case in America, and yet if Mandela can survive what him and the blacks of south africa went through without developing an ethnic hatred why cant you?

[kylie]

this point may have already been made, im not gonna look through all the pages. but Karl Marx was jewish.

[CheGuevara]

Correct, Reubs, I never called for a 100% Jew free US government, simply one more or less with an ethnic makeup more proportionate to that of the country. I never attacked Jews as a people, only American Jews. They're are a lot of factors that work towards minority disenfranchisement in the US, I'm not going to go into them as if you know enough to lecture me about my own country, you should know them, unless you're an arrogant SOB. No, the disenfranchisement isn't as strong as it is in South Africa, but it's no small matter either. Mandela is sort of one of those people like Ghandhi in that you could shove your foot up his ass and he'd keep on smiling, although not quite that extreme.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Malte Liquor to come up with an excuse for the contradiction I discovered.

[El Che]

"my personal belief that Jews generaly have power because generaly they are good at what they do."

Note that I am well aware I`m generalizing and explicitly indicate that.

"Can this same argument not apply to Whites?"

This is not an argument of any sort. It is, rather, a statement to the effect that I believe a statistical fact to exist. It either does or it doesn`t but it`s not subjective, it`s not a i/logical construction or anything else.

"Anyway, I'm still waiting for Malte Liquor to come up with an excuse for the contradiction I discovered."

CheG whatever I say is my responsibility I don`t see why you should call on Malte to answer for anything I have said. I think I know what I`m doing.

I think it`s plain to see that there are many non racial differences between racial groups. For example I could say that "white" people have more money and power than any other group. As a cause for this I might point out the Historical development of europian nations (i.e Imperialism, Capitalism and the general exploitation of others). That we should refuse to acknowledge such facts where they exist sounds to me like medival obscurantism. While a racist might have you believe that "white" people have more money because they are better than others, I contend that the simple acknowledgement of the fact in question does not substanciate their claim even if it may appear to do so and if the fact indeed does exist you can`t help but acknowledge it.

[smith196]

I agree with you Che. The American media and political system is overwhelmingly Jewish and they use their control to further their own interests including the war on Iraq. It will benefit Israel greatly to be rid of Saddam.

[RedComrade]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:33 am on Mar. 15, 2003
In a nutshell, one Democratic Party regional whip, Jim Moran, was forced to resign over saying that the Jews were largely responsible for the US's upcoming war on Iraq. Not pretty, but it's the truth. Not that I really care, I already knew it, and I've never had any faith in electoral politics anyway. Imagine if Mexicans had 1/10th of the influence Jews have.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...mocrats_moran_5 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030314/ap_on_go_co/democrats_moran_5)

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:34 am on Mar. 15, 2003)


I have read through a couple pages of this thread, enough to see that che is being branded an anti semite for the above post. I shall risk being called an anti semite and come out and say i see absolutely nothing anti semetic about the above post, i see nothing but the truth. I was looking through the library a couple weeks back and i remember seeing some book by a couple jewish authors i forget what it was called, to cut to the point the book admitted and bragged that in all the high paying careers Jews are represented hundreds of times more than their size, in attorneys i beleive they are represented 486 times their population size. It is not exactly groundbreaking that Jews are extremely powerful and hundreds of times more powerful than their size alone should cause, even the Jews admit it. The whole environment of political correctness and denial of concrete facts concerning the role of Jews amazes me. Geez people grow up and learn not to cry anti-semite every time someone points out the fact that despite the tragic circumstances of the holocaust Jews are certainly no saints either and posses great power and influence that is not always used for good causes (cough Israel cough)...

[Reuben]

Are you trying to imply that 'the jews' are guilty on account of Israel. As i have said ealier in this thread i would be the first to attack israel, act against the state politically, and i support the boycott campaign and thus there is no reason for your immature wa of putting forward your point 'coughs israel coughs)' there is already an anti-zionist consensus on this thread.

If you do not find the above thread anti semitic look at some of CheGs other statements in which he attacks american jews as a whole:

- the jews are our gag and chains

- Get every jew out of a powerful position in the US government.

In the first statement he is clearly using disgusting and negative metaphos to describe a whole ethnic group. In the second he is displaying ethnic rather than political prefernces about who should be in government.

And who are you to start making attacks ethnic 'the jews are no saints', like an other ethnic group some are and some arent. I dont believe that jews are better thany anyone else but certainly do not support them being attacked collectively just as it would be stupid for me to say 'whites are no saints' in that i would be making a character jdgment about a whole ethnic group

[El Che]

Why would you say "Jews are no saints"? Aren`t Jews people same as everybody else? What is the difference, in terms of sanctity, between a Jew and a non Jew? Are Jews more badly behaved then others or is it the other way around?

Do you realise the nature of the generalization you`re making?

[RedComrade]

By saying they are no saints I did not necessarily say they were good or bad. I was refuting ethnic generalizations, the common generalization and perhaps not with people on this board but in the area were I live is that Jews are saintly people, they are a morally superior group, they are God's chosen people, and that they will be instrumental in the last battle against satanic hordes of muslims; this of course may have something to do with the fact that I live in a rural midwestern community. How can you accuse me of making ethnic generalizations??? I was refuting an ethnic generalization that all Jews are saintly and are somehow better and/or more worthy than other ethnic groups.

[El Che]

To my knowledge no one here is claiming Jews are saints or better then others. Quite the contrary actualy. Please do not refer to non existent, supposedly consensual opinions because you might be misunderstood. That is why I asked. If you are only saying (however unclearly) Jews are no different from others I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe you should have read the entire thread before replying.

[RedComrade]

Perhaps I should have, I apologize. My time on this site is limited and often I lack the time to read through long 14 page threads. I offer my apologies to any comrades I may have offended.

[CheGuevara]

I never said get every Jew out of government, Reuben. Quit lying.

And Malte, look what I found. Funny how liquor changes over time, especially when someone's board isn't new and just starting out anymore.

Hi Rob,
Your forum password is: xxxxxxx
And thanks a lot for yoir strong participation in the community!
Hasta siempre!
Malte


(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:13 pm on Mar. 26, 2003)

[Reuben]

For redcomrade and others, the following quotes establish CheG is an absolute racist prick who is willing to collectively attack the whole American jewish community:

'Just face it, thousands of people are dying in Iraq this very minute because of the Jews in America and the oil men.' - placing some blame for the war on the whole jewish-american community

[/b]'the American Jews are our gag and chains'

[b]'Get as many Jews out of powerful positions in the US government.'

'I will not apologise to the Jewish community until they stop throwing their money around in order to gain a disproportionate influence in the American federal government' - While this may be true of some jews as it may be true of some anglo saxons, this does not justify attacking and accusing a whole ethnic community of something so specific. The jews are not one homogeneous mass of people, something which CheG needs to recognise

[CheGuevara]

Whatever. You can say what you want, I really don't care, you've got Jew-loving Malte Liquor sucking your cock pretty well, so you've won. I've been restricted to this silly slophole, and the petty bourgeoisie such as yourself are allowed to roam free. Whatever. You've won, I've lost. Truth and fairness don't triumph in the real world, why should they triumph here? Che-Lives hasn't had any potential to be something revolutionary in a LONG-ASS time. Hey Malte Liquor, suck my working class ass(you don't even deserve to suck my dick)! Get back to driving your VW Jetta through the mountains of Bavaria! Fucking Kraut Yuppie!!! I'm part German, so shut your fucking mouth before you call me a racist.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 4:41 am on Mar. 28, 2003)

[synthesis]

We don't want your fucking revolution, CheGuevara.

[CheGuevara]

No, of course you petty bourgeoisie reformist freaks on this website don't. A revolution might mean that you and other non-members of the working class might actually have to do a little bit of work. So go play with yourselves and your reformist policies, and I'll go work with the working class.

[synthesis]

I didn't mean we didn't want a revolution, you moron, and I'm not sure how stupid you'd have to be to infer such a thing from what I said. We don't want your revolution - so take the swastikatalk elsewhere.

[Totalitarian]

ok i agree reuben. To be accurate, one should not make generalisations about an entire group to imply they all behave the same way, but it seems as though most jews are zionists (something like 90%). Maybe that's just influence of the media, i don't know

Jewish fanaticism is a very threatening force though i think...have you read Israel Shahak's book 'Jewish history, Jewish religion' ? He writes about how some jews (especially hassidic) are taught to believe the world is created for jews, and goyim are worthless

[CheGuevara]

When I say 90% of Jews are Zionists, I mean American Jews. I really don't know that much about Jews outside of America.
By the way, isn't it funny that all the foreigners (Malte Liquor, Reuben, El Che, DyerMaker) on this site poopoo the idea that America is disproportionately influenced by Jews, whereas most of the Americans who've responded acknowledge this.

[synthesis]

By the way, isn't it funny that all the foreigners (Malte Liquor, Reuben, El Che, DyerMaker) on this site Excuse me? I'm American; I merely sport the flag as my avatar because that is what's in my veins.

[CheGuevara]

Well, hopefully you're not first generation Italian...it's not PC to say, just like saying Jews disproportionately control America, but 1st gen Italians are real SOBs.