Stomin Norman's Legacy - You can debate me on any of the top

[Political Suicide]

I'm the former "punkrawker677". A bit older and a bit more experienced in life.

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 3:43 pm on Mar. 18, 2003
Stormin Norman = Banned by me because he said I was too chicken to do it.. So I did it. :)

Old Friend = Banned by D-Day because of flaming.

Commie ***** Slapper = Banned by me because you only came back to continue flaming.


Stormin Norman = Banned because RC was intimidated by his intelligence

Old Friend = Banned because D-Day was intimidated by his intelligence


Commie ***** Slapper = Banned because RC was intimidated by his intelligence

[American Kid]

Strangely I hadn't really read totally through Norman's intitial post here before.

I'm flattered that he'd suggest that I preside as some sort of "Independant Council" or something. Although I think the demeanor of the currrent bereaucracy (sp?) leans slightly (just enough) out of my favor. I seriously doubt they'd be willing to relinquish that much "power."

If it did happen though, I've already made it clear, I'm against his banning.

It's late, I'm really tired, I've been abusing my body and mind lately with a menegerie of assorted alcoholic bevarages, and I just want to go to bed right now. I have much more to say on the subject. To be continued.

-ak

[Ghost Writer]

Once again, I must thank American Friend for being a true ally. He is one of the few people around here that gets it.

Next to Chit Chat, Opposing Ideologies has the greatest number of posts. At 36000 posts, Socialism vs. Capitalism even beats out your own Politics forum, which has about 29000 posts. The number of topics in Politics is more than double the number of topics in Socialism vs. Capitalism. This is clear indication that people naturally want debate, and that we bring it to them in this section. Out of the 36000 post in this section, about 2000 of them are mine (2002 if you count the Global Warming Posts of mine that were deleted), which accounts for approximately 5.5% of the grand total. Considering that you have had roughly 4000 members in your history, this is a testiment to my contribution to this communist chat group.

Let's look at the bottom line. If you were running a television network, you would naturally want someone with my persona. I put asses in seats. Considering that you are a pseudo-commercial interest, it is in your best interest to keep such a controversial character in your midst. Otherwise, your 'ratings' would dry up, as people get sick of the continued monotony of your message. This has happened to CNN, and MSNBC is trying to avert such a disaster by hiring more conservative voices. Regardless of your feelings about my nature, you must admit that my contribution here has been astounding.

Naturally, my opinions would be too controversial for television, and I would be more suited for a career in radio. However, my ulitimate dream would be to work for one of the various conservative think-tanks in Washington.

Here is my latest contribution to a site that underappreciates me:

Iraq's Ties to Terrorism and Possible Role in the 9-11 Attacks (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=1823&start=20)

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 8:07 am on Mar. 19, 2003)

[Ghost Writer]

I agree with Larissa. Norm's got shit to say. Let him say it. He gets nasty. Who doesn't? In the last week I read one of the members here say to a "cappie" that when the revolution starts, he's going to kill him.

As I understand it...that member is still free to post whereever he wants.

The rule:

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is rascist, anti-semitic, knowingly false and/or defamatory, hateful, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

I got to tell you. I almost wet my pants when I read that guys threats. I was so scared that I curled up in a ball and refused to leave my house for days. Surely, my agoraphobia was spawned by this a-hole. I am suffering from severe mental anguish as a result, and am now consulting a lawyer to file suit against che-lives.com, and the originator of the threat. I'm so scared.

Mush like the U.N. che-lives.com chooses to uphold their rules on a selective basis. Clearly, a double standard applies. More evidence of the complete hypocrisy I am faced with.

[Ghost Writer]

James,

Now that you are back, do you care to do this thing right? I have presented my side of the argument, as to why I should remain a member of this community, and why your ban of me was a despicable act. Now present your side of the debate, tell the world why I should be banned. Let's forget about the fact that you edited my posts, as well as the fact that I called you some rather inflamatory names. Let's debate this like men, and do this in a respectable manner. Then let's take a vote from all members with 1000 posts or greater. What do you say? Are you willing to rectify your actions? I am.

[synthesis]

Mush like the U.N. che-lives.com chooses to uphold their rules on a selective basis. Clearly, a double standard applies.I hope you didn't just figure that out, Sherlock. This is our house. I don't think it can be made any clearer than that. If you don't like the accomodations, don't let the door slam you in the ass on the way out.


I have presented my side of the argument, as to why I should remain a member of this community, and why your ban of me was a despicable act. You're fuckin' full of shit! You ASKED to be banned! You WOULDN'T HAVE FUCKING BEEN BANNED IF YOU WOULDN'T HAVE SPAMMED!!!!

So if him banning you wasn't necessary, and deleting your deluge of flooding, flaming, and spam was atrocious behavior and whatnot, what the fuck was he supposed to do? And for that matter, why exactly did you come back so fast after requesting to be banned? Oh, that's right. Because you're fucking manipulative; you are only coming here to offend members and disrupt the community.

You are so transparent. I voted against banning you when it first came around, and in fact I was the sole advocate of removing your 'Stormin Moron' subtitle, but I would be happy to never see you around here again.

[Ghost Writer]

Disrupting? Disrupting what, your ability to engage in groupthink without question, your ability to lie and defame the merits of my country, your ability to make outlandish statements without any basis in fact. I admit I am guilty of those crimes, and I can see why those interested in such activities would take issue with me.

Sorry, I challenge you to think about your stated positions. This is clearly the reason why those like you and James want me gone the most. It has nothing to do with spamming, and everything to do with the challenge I present you with.

This is the choice of this board, and the people that I have engaged in heated discussion. Would you rather have me gone, because I present you a challenge, or would you rather have to explain your reasons for holding your beliefs?

Start organizing a committee. Let's hear from your side of the aisle. Let's debate my removal, and not take to the underhanded tactics employed earlier. You owe me that much.

I admitted to flaming, and I gave the reasons for my behavior. You refuse to believe me. Well, there is nothing more I can say about that matter, and this is why I have chosen to focus on other reasons for my reinstatement.

Your side has not explained their intent to rid my viewpoint. Let's have the reasons. I disrupt. That's weak. Let's hear the real reason. Then let the people with a history on this board make their choice, not 5 or 6 people, and not in the commie club. Present your case and take a vote from anybody with 4 stars.

If you decide to ban me in a fair manner, I will never bug you again, for the rules of the game will have been as fair as possible. Do it right, own up to your decision openly, and I will accept the fact that I am not wanted here. For now, I am convinced that there are a few who enjoy my antics, and wish to hear me out on various matters. If it turns out that I am wrong, and the majority of you would rather do without them, I will leave, without question.

[synthesis]

You challenge us? Sure. I like that. If we banned you because you challenge us, why would you have lasted ten fucking months here before being banned (by your own actions, I might add)? And why has Capitalist Imperial not even been touched (to my knowledge) even though he presents just as much of a challenge as you do?

Oh, that's right. He doesn't come here to fuck with us.


Then let the people with a history on this board make their choice, not 5 or 6 people, and not in the commie club. Present your case and take a vote from anybody with 4 stars.This is our house, pal, or better, Malte's house. You don't seem to grasp that. If and when the decision is made to determine your future here, it'll be on our terms, not yours. It may be done in the commie club, and people with fewer than four stars will be included. You have no say here.


If it turns out that I am wrong, and the majority of you would rather do without them, I will leave, without question.I doubt that.

[Reuben]

5{

[Ghost Writer]

There is no reason to doubt that. Clearly, I feel that the ban and censorship I have suffered from have been unjust. If a fair move were made to ban me, and the rules of the game were not stacked against me, I would accept the outcome of the decision, as I clearly do not wish to remain where I am not wanted. I feel that the majority of the people whose views I care about, do not feel as you do. If I have been wrong inj my assumptions, then I'll leave.

Looks like the New Policy Sticky has been reduced to a normal post. Does this mean I can have my original name back, and continue posting as my original manifestation? It would be greatly appreciated, if we could leave all the ugliness behind, and move forward in the interest of the truth.

[synthesis]

I notice that you did not challenge my assertion that you were not banned because you were too intelligent (in your own words.) Does this mean you concede in that regard?

[canikickit]

Nobody here owes you anything Norm.

I think you are here to piss people off. You couldn't convince me otherwise.


At 36000 posts, Socialism vs. Capitalism even beats out your own Politics forum, which has about 29000 posts. The number of topics in Politics is more than double the number of topics in Socialism vs. Capitalism. This is clear indication that people naturally want debate, and that we bring it to them in this section. Out of the 36000 post in this section, about 2000 of them are mine (2002 if you count the Global Warming Posts of mine that were deleted), which accounts for approximately 5.5% of the grand total. Considering that you have had roughly 4000 members in your history, this is a testiment to my contribution to this communist chat group.

If people want to debate with people they disagree with, they should go to another board. This is a community for leftists.

I think the larger number of topics in politics demonstates that this forum is not very productive. Have a look at most of the posts in OI, Norm - people repeat themselves over and over and over. So many times, I have seen the same anti-war arguments put forward. Then the same miserable excuses for refutals put forward. It's all bullshit.

I'd be a lot happier without your contribution here Norm. This bullshit about intimidation is typical of the right. The type of speculation nobody can backup - like calling anti-war protesters anti-American.

You are insulting and rude. Constantly. I think your disrespectful nature outweighs your debate, and in fact, the majority of your debate ends with a slur. That has been my experience.

Of course there is a slight double standard. I think you should concentrate more on real-life double standards like the US backing of Israel.

You have made 1000+ posts with this disrespectful attitude of yours. It's not just on remark or five remarks or even fifty remarks, it is the culmination of 1000 posts.

Threads like "Do I Hate All Leftists?" are a large part of my dislike for you, Norm. Posts like that (and the one against Larissa) are designed to inflame and infuriate. Hide behind your intellectual barrier all you want, Norm. You don't fool me. You don't fool me.


It's favoritism and quite frankly it scares the fuck out of me. Who's running the kitchen around here? A bunch of teeniboppers with pics of Larissa cut out from Teenbeat magazine on their bedroom walls?

That's totally unfair to Lara. It seems to me that you are degrading her to a pretty face, and nothing else.

It is favouritism. I prefer most people here to Norm - that's why he should be banned. Yes, because I dislike him.

[synthesis]

I agree, canikickit. I love how the word 'favoritism' has been thrown around so much recently - as if it's a bad thing!

It was thrown around basically simultaneously during the first half or so of the new-moderators thread in the Commie Club and when 'Old Friend' was banned. This is a community - not a fucking country! The analogy works for the free speech/censorship whining and it works here too. There is no such thing as nepotism or favoritism here - in a negative sense, at least.

So what if moderators were chosen out of favoritism? (I don't think they were, by the way.) It's a community - the people enforcing the rules ought to represent the wishes of the people they're enforcing them on.

Same with the banning - if someone personally targets a member of the board, especially initiating this attack, they're fucking with the whole community. You aren't wanted here, Norman. Deal with it.

[sc4r]

SN or whatever name u want to accord yourself.

This board is owned by socialists. It's that simple. Its not a democratic facility and its not run on complete freedom of speech lines. It doesnt say it is or pretend it is.

You and your ugly kind are given a license to post stuff here because socialists like to make it clear that they are fully prepared to engage in debate. But what u do (and in fact what 99% of your kind do) is trash; just as u are doing here.

Why the Fuck do you think you are going to be a given a vote in the matter ? Just because you would like one and are going to thceam and thceam until you are sick unless u get one.

Post a description of what your ideals are and why they might work. Then watch as that exposition get ripped apart. You wont so that because you are not presenting an opposing ideology you are simply attempting to rubbish ours with slurs.

Piss off back to the gutter you belong in.

[Ghost Writer]

This board is owned by socialists. It's that simple. Its not a democratic facility and its not run on complete freedom of speech lines. It doesnt say it is or pretend it is.

Your website doesn't adhere to the principles of democracy, or free-speech by virtue of the fact that it is run by socialists. This is the point I have been making since I arrived here. So nice of you to put that in perspective for me. What is rather funny, remains the claim that most socialists here make stating that socialism and democracy are compatible. This is a claim that I find to be the most funny, and is one of the reasons why you wish to remove me from your site. I have always been vocal about pointing out this blatant hypocrisy.


You and your ugly kind are given a license to post stuff here because socialists like to make it clear that they are fully prepared to engage in debate. But what u do (and in fact what 99% of your kind do) is trash; just as u are doing here.

Then prove that you prepared for debate by ceasing this assault on me, and engaging in debate. Don't ban me because you don't like my message, because that would be the most significant example of the kind of hypocrisy that I have been known to expose.


Why the Fuck do you think you are going to be a given a vote in the matter ? Just because you would like one and are going to thceam and thceam until you are sick unless u get one.

No, because I have been a major contributor to this board, for reasons that I have expressed in earlier posts in this thread. In fact, I never asked for a vote. I asked to present my side, then let everyone who has had a significant impact on this board a chance to wiegh in on the matter. As far as I can tell, your significance is minimal in comparison to mine. Could you provide a list of your most notable work, as I have done here?


Post a description of what your ideals are and why they might work. Then watch as that exposition get ripped apart. You wont so that because you are not presenting an opposing ideology you are simply attempting to rubbish ours with slurs.

What do you think I have been doing here. Not only have I posted on my ideas and philosophies, but I have been very aggressive in demonstrating the weakness in your worldview. However, nothing could have been more effective than allowing you socialists to carry on in the manner I have witnessed in my time here.


Piss off back to the gutter you belong in.

Again with the couble standard. I have been banned for less than this.

[sc4r]

Fine, Then post some. I've never seen you do anything but trash, whine and insult people.

Just as you are doing here. I dont care that you SAY you have repeatedly posted good stuff (and still less thatv you say you have won). What I actually see is that you were banned for abusing people and since you have returned all you do is whine. My guess is that this is mostly all you have ever done.

One calls it as one sees it and I see you as just another example of your loudmouthed, Ignorant and egosticial kind.

You can prove me wrong easily - Post a description of your ideology, explain why it works, identify the problems and explain how it overcomes them. I know you wont do this because you are interested in 2 things :-

1) first and foremeost talking about you not about any ideology.

2) as a way to achive this attention you will trash talk the ideology of people of this board and then puff yourself up and declare yourself the winner.

This is identical behaviout to any number of wankers exactly like you on political forum across the net.

(Edited by sc4r at 1:50 am on Mar. 23, 2003)

[canikickit]

Your website doesn't adhere to the principles of democracy, or free-speech by virtue of the fact that it is run by socialists. This is the point I have been making since I arrived here. So nice of you to put that in perspective for me. What is rather funny, remains the claim that most socialists here make stating that socialism and democracy are compatible. This is a claim that I find to be the most funny, and is one of the reasons why you wish to remove me from your site. I have always been vocal about pointing out this blatant hypocrisy.

Again with the comedy. You'd actually be funny if you weren't serious. I'm having trouble believing you have sunk this low. To think I have sometimes respected you.

Norm, let's take it slow.[list]

this is an internet message board.
We are here because we want to discuss the implementation of socialism.
We have this forum to allow opposition to speak their minds.
You are very rude. You have been since I got here.
You were banned once because of some childish attempt to prove you were being oppressed. Which failed, miserably.
You were banned again because of a direct attack on a member, coupled with a typically disgusting display of disrespect for people you know many here hold dear.
You were banned again for having a deliberately inflamatory name.
Now you are back whinging. Again!
Whinging!
Again![list]

ooooooh the double standard! wow! big deal! it's a double standard! head for the hills!

[list]

[canikickit]

(Again)

[Ghost Writer]

Tell me again, who's being rude here?

[Ghost Writer]

You can prove me wrong easily - Post a description of your ideology, explain why it works, identify the problems and explain how it overcomes them. I know you wont do this because you are interested in 2 things

If I thought a basis for a decent conversation existed between the two of us, I would. However, you have shown that you have an extreme bias about my situation, and I am convinced that you care nothing about my ideas. Therefore, I am not going to waste my time on someone of your mind. Clearly, you do not care to hear me out, and it would be a wasted effort, since your mind is already made up.

Obviously, you ask something of me that you are not willing to do yourself. Prove to me that you are interested in discussion by taking your own advice, and publishing your own worldview on this forum. I have already proven myself on this board, you have not. So let's hear some of your ideas. God knows, there are enough of mine floating around here. Ante up.

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 3:00 am on Mar. 23, 2003)

[synthesis]

What is rather funny, remains the claim that most socialists here make stating that socialism and democracy are compatible. They're not just compatible. They're the same fucking thing, SN.

Democracy means, of course, rule by the people. Tell me, Norman are the maquiladoras in Mexico ruled by the people? Are the sweatshop plantations Taco Bell buys their tomatoes from in Florida ruled by the people? For that matter, is Taco Bell, or more appropriately PepsiCo, ruled by the people? Microsoft? Sony? General Electric? Ford Motors?

You know the answer as well as I do, SN. They are not democratic - which socialism seeks to correct. That is, infact, the ONLY necessary facet of socialism - it is its defining characteristic.

[Ghost Writer]

"To achieve the growth of vibrant, democratic societies in well-governed nations throughout the world, the United States needs to work with business corporations as new partners, says Assistant Secretary of State Lorne Craner.

Craner, head of the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, said June 18 that an increasing number of corporations appreciate that countries that respect human rights "have more open and transparent laws and financial systems, less corruption, a better-educated work force, more stability and more security."" - The United States Mission to the European Union: U.S. Sees Corporations as Partners in Democracy

[synthesis]

What? That quote is utter bullshit, Norman. Countries that don't respect human rights have no minimum wage, no pesky child labor laws, and no rules against increasing productivity - with a whip and a rifle. Why else would corporations clamor to have any leader who dares present an image of social responsibility - Bishop, Papandreou, Allende, Figueres, Sukarno, Goulart, Jagan, Kassem, Aristide and the Sandinistas - and every time, have their wishes carried out in the form of U.S. funded coups, assassinations, bombings, and other subversive activities?

Still - you didn't refute my point - that democracy is not only compatible with socialism, not only inherent to socialism, but they are the same damn thing. File it under the reflexive property.

[sc4r]

If I thought a basis for a decent conversation existed between the two of us, I would. However, you have shown that you have an extreme bias about my situation, and I am convinced that you care nothing about my ideas.
(Edited by Ghost Writer at 3:00 am on Mar. 23, 2003)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFL ROFL ROFL

Tiis whole Fucking board explains socialism. On other boards I've posted probably 1/2 million words + explaining socialism (not words trashing capitalism). HERE I dont need to. The people HERE already get it. I'm not going to write essays merely to indulge you, you egotistical tart.

HERE it is you that needs to anti up. Obviously, as I predicted ,you are not going to; which makes your whole purpose in being here destructive. Which in my mind is a good reason to boot you.

Of course I have a bloody bias. If having a bias is a reason not to discuss what the hell are you doing here, everyone here has a bias against your views.

(Edited by sc4r at 10:43 am on Mar. 23, 2003)

[canikickit]

You have been rude Norm.

[Ghost Writer]

Then how does it feel sinking to my level, Canikickit, Dyermaker, and sc4r?

[synthesis]

Excuse me?

[Ghost Writer]

If you're going to do it. Chime in right here. Who wants me banned?

[canikickit]

I think you should be banned. At times I want you to be banned, a lot of the time I don't really care.

I think you should be banned, because I think a lot of your posts have been designed and intended to cause pain, humiliate, and insult.

By a lot, I mean most. While they may have contained rational debate - it seems to be the norm for you to veer off into insults and slanders.

(Edited by canikickit at 5:30 pm on Mar. 30, 2003)

[Ghost Writer]

You have insulted and slandered me. Does that mean you should be banned too?

[canikickit]

No, because I do not present myself as someone whose primary purpose in this forum is to annoy. You do. That is my interpretation, I am not sure of others motivations for banning you.

Another reason is the fact that you were banned as Stormin Norman. It is not that screen name which was the aim of this action, but the person that you are.

[lifetrnal]

Stormin,

I'm going to come down on your side with some caveats. No, you should not be baned on permanent basis from this board. The very existance of the Opposing Ideologies board suggests that there is a need, and more importantly a WANT for debat with those who are Capitalists. See, the thing is the Dialectic gets nowhere without antithesis.
Now that I've said that, I think you must head what the other more active members of this board are saying. Remember, you are on *OUR* website. If you put yourself amongst of redicals who all share an ideology that opposes yours, you must accept some amount of ill will, BUT, when you act the way that you have... with callaousness, rudness, and a general attitude of superiority then you must EXPECT to get thrown off the web site.
My suggestion to you is this: If you want to contribute to this forum... if you want to contribute to a sharing of ideas... then perhaps you should have more tolorence beliefs other than your own, and perhaps you should debate points you deem worth debating with tact, intelligence, and above all COOLNESS. Just my 2 cents.

[RedComrade]

I have not read through all of this particular thread but I have seen enough to notice the reasons behind Norm being banned the first time are in question. This is all I have to say to anyone who thinks it was a direct result of Norm asking to be banned and flaming, this post was made by James in the commie club and was said a week before the flame war erupted, it shows the premeditated nature of James political sabotage:

ok, i just want SM to be banned because i relly don't like the guy. I think he's one nasty pasty, and i think this is his life. Ban him, and he'll get all fucked!!!hahaha

-----
"We are what we think. All that we are arises With our thoughts. With our thoughts, We make our world"
-The Buddha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Posts: 1559 | Joined Feb. 2002 | Posted on: 11:38 pm on Feb. 4, 2003 | IP

That right there was from the mod who launched a campaign of political sabotage after growing tired of debating with someone who proved a real challenge. While I do not have a lot of post I have been here a while and have observed Norms posting. The idea that he would all the sudden go from rational debater to the out of control spammer he became unprovoked is a joke. He was sabotaged plain and simple . For those who would argue his purpose here is to piss people off I would disagree. I think one only need examine Norms posts to see that a vast majority of them contain more content than the average comrade or capitalist. Not only has Norm not been a spammer he has been more of a factual debater than most of us. I do beleive this irrational sweep to ban Norm is not motivated by the proper reasons and its roots lie somewere in a deepseated inferiority complex for some but not all of those who call for it. I for one feel that I am mature enough to ignore spamming and flaming and do not think Norm posts enough to warrant actual banning. Furthermore I concede Norm to be extremely talented competition and rather than silence him or run from him I prefer to keep him around and face up to him, I am not a coward, I see it as extremely cowardly to ban the most outspoken intelligent voice for the opposition. The most we can do is grow stronger with Norm around from a. learning to ignore insults and not have a fit every time someones rude b. hone debate skills through intense engagement with the enemy and his ideals. Also for anyone who may think I am unreasonably pro-Norm you do not know me. The first long series of posts I made was an attack on Norm, see pages 10 through 15 of the very old Ignorant statements thread. I took it to the capitalist and I intend to continue to if they dont become extinct in an immature whiney quest for the path of least resistance. Strengthen your minds comrades and stop going for the easiest solutions, if Norm truly is the hateful spammer you claim than a good dose of self control and ignoring him will cure it, if he is as i beleive a credible opponent then do not shy away from the conflict but embrace the struggle with impeccable socialist logic.



(Edited by RedComrade at 6:28 pm on Mar. 30, 2003)