Starting out.

[phoenixashes]

OK so I've just finished reading the communist manifesto. I just wanted to see if i have understood it properly.

So the basic idea of communism is that there are 2 main classes in society. The workers and the ones who control the workers. Communism aims to destroy those who control and put in power those who turn the world aka the workers.

All things belonging to those who control now belong to the public where the workers can use them as they see fit to benefit there fellowman instead of benefiting those who previously owned them.

Instead of one man making millions by exploiting others and paying just enough for them to survive the previously exploited become as rich as there work will allow them therefor making everyone equal. The more you work the more life becomes better for you and for others.


Have i got the right idea here or am i going in the total wrong direction?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

OK so I've just finished reading the communist manifesto. I just wanted to see if i have understood it properly.

So the basic idea of communism is that there are 2 main classes in society. The workers and the ones who control the workers. Communism aims to destroy those who control and put in power those who turn the world aka the workers.

All things belonging to those who control now belong to the public where the workers can use them as they see fit to benefit there fellowman instead of benefiting those who previously owned them.

Instead of one man making millions by exploiting others and paying just enough for them to survive the previously exploited become as rich as there work will allow them therefor making everyone equal. The more you work the more life becomes better for you and for others.


Have i got the right idea here or am i going in the total wrong direction?

Yup also workers will vote about things in the workplace and then act on them. (Thats how shit gets done)

[phoenixashes]

So what of those who do nothing to contribute to society? What of the ones who refuse to work and sit idle all day. If everyone is equal then do these people also reap the benefits of others work?

It seems that this is as much as a problem as those who make money off exploiting people.

[revolution inaction]

So what of those who do nothing to contribute to society? What of the ones who refuse to work and sit idle all day. If everyone is equal then do these people also reap the benefits of others work?

It seems that this is as much as a problem as those who make money off exploiting people.


The basic principle of communism is "from each according to ability, to each according to need"

So people who can work but wont can't expect anything from society, probably they would get minimum rations so they didn't actually stave, but that's about it.

[phoenixashes]

Still unfair but i suppose it does motivate the person to work. So the more someone works the more the person receives.

The only problem i see currently is that it seems you have to be a bit more intellectual than the majority to grasp the concept of communism. It would be so hard for the common man to grasp the fact that life can work without currency. People who have worked so hard to gain their power are going to be pissed off as shit and do everything in their power to stop a revolution.

Also... is it possable to achieve communism without violence?

[F9]

Still unfair but i suppose it does motivate the person to work. So the more someone works the more the person receives.

The only problem i see currently is that it seems you have to be a bit more intellectual than the majority to grasp the concept of communism. It would be so hard for the common man to grasp the fact that life can work without currency. People who have worked so hard to gain their power are going to be pissed off as shit and do everything in their power to stop a revolution.

Also... is it possable to achieve communism without violence?

No it isnt.For what reason?you answered yourself(see Bold)!

Fuserg9:star:

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Also... is it possable to achieve communism without violence?You're taking a very limited look at communism. It's not funneled into a particular year of history. Modes of production are oftentimes simultaneous, with the powerful one taking precedent in society. Markets existed in feudalist relations, and socialism can exist in capitalism. Peer-to-peer networks are an example of communism.

To answer your question: maybe. I'm positive we don't have to go through a "Russian Civil War," but we can't account for everyone's action in the world. Reactionaries would drag their feet - meaning they'd pull out some ammunition.


So what of those who do nothing to contribute to society? What of the ones who refuse to work and sit idle all day. If everyone is equal then do these people also reap the benefits of others work?One day we'd all like to see it possible for people to live out their lives as they want with no such influence.

[revolution inaction]

Still unfair but i suppose it does motivate the person to work. So the more someone works the more the person receives.

No, that would would be "to each according to work", in a communist society so long as you are not avoiding contributing then you are entitle to take from the collective resources as you need/want.



The only problem i see currently is that it seems you have to be a bit more intellectual than the majority to grasp the concept of communism. It would be so hard for the common man to grasp the fact that life can work without currency.

I don't think its a matter of intelligence, its just an concept people are not familiar with.
I might require greater then average intelligence to invent of cause, but that has already been done, so now its just a matter of learning.



People who have worked so hard to gain their power are going to be pissed off as shit and do everything in their power to stop a revolution.

People with any significant amount of power have not got it through there own work, though they will still fight to protect there power.
Many people may believe they would have all there things taken away, but that is not what communism is about, we want to collectivise the means of production not your personal possessions.



Also... is it possable to achieve communism without violence?

If the bourgeois doesn't fight it then there will be no, or vary little violence, but they will do, so violence is inevitable unfortunately.

[phoenixashes]

It's unfair because even if they do nothing they get something. I think that sucks but sure as hell think it sucks a whole lot less than how shit's going down now. There is no such thing as perfection.

Hrmm, I'm seeing that communism is very close to the ideas of the GPL.
A software program is created by one man or a group of men and is distributed freely for all others to use. Others may change that program to improve it or make it more useful to themselves as long as they continue to distribute it freely and give credit to all who have helped build it to what it is today.

So in communism one man or a group of men could start producing apples in a field. They can use the field providing they supply the apples that it reaps to whomever requires it. In return they can walk down the road and get some pears from another group of men in the same situation. Am i on the right track here?

What i don't see however is how a man could own say a BMW over another man owning a Honda. How does that one man deserve the classy car over the other man owning the basic family car?



It is unfortunate that violence is inevitable. But if it is for the greater good i suppose it is acceptable. It's just painful to know that lives could be taken even though there is no guarantee of success.



Forgive me if this post makes next to no sense and i missed any questions or anything. I'm tired as hell and i can't get to sleep.

[bluerev002]

If I may be so bold to state this:

The problem why you are having such a hard time grasping the concept of communism is that you are looking at it through a Capitalist-Culture Lens.

Which is would go with your statement of "you need to be a bit more intelligent than the majority". Which is untrue. The hard part here is not for all of us to learn the concepts of communism but to unlearn the concepts of Capitalism, individualism, etc. which a lot of us were born with (especially if you were born in the U.S.).

To strain the concept further, you asked who would own which brand of car. Firstly, I doubt that there would be any brand of cars. We each have our own concepts of an ideal society. In my mind an ideal society would consist of one where there are no cars. Just massive, environmentally friendly, public transportation systems.

To go along with your "it's not fair" statement in regards to people getting something for nothing, there are a few possible answers. For one there may be a minimum quota that each worker will have to fulfill before reaping any of the benefits. This minimum will be set by a calculation of the minimum amount (for arguments sake) food a certain sector needs. Therefore the minimum will not just be a few sacks of corn but a well rounded day's work.

Ideally, people will eventually lose this mentality of "well if I do the minimum I'll still get the same benefits as everyone else". They will gain a different mentality where they work for everyone and not for themselves. In the end that is Marx and Engle's clear optimistic goal: Everything for everyone.

Again always remember that the Communist Manifesto if a book of philosophy open to your own interpretation. It is not a handbook that we all should follow word by word. We each as Critically Thinking humans must dissect it and analyze it to the bone as we need to do with everything else in life.

[spice756]

There is no pay or wealth under communism.Money is abolition.Well I still do not know how you will stop greedy people who want a enormous house and big car.

Or get pleasure by having lots of material goods.I still see a potential for greed.



Communism is cooperative,collective, sharing kind environment based on the principle that each has something he or she is good at, and thus contributes to society as he or she can. In return, each given their necessities of life, from housing,education,healthcare ,clothes and food.

There is no money or wealth under communism.I still do not know who is going to over see this and stop greedy people

[phoenixashes]

So cars don't exist in a communist word, just giant public transport systems. Man this just keeps getting better and better. Of course the public transport would have to be 24 hours and free.

Bluerev the hardest part about learning something new is unlearning what has allready been taught. I highly doubt majority of the people i have met through my life would be able to do it without someone drumming it into them. But would that not mean there would be someone in power telling the 'sheep' what to do?

I don't think it's the capitalists holding back change, i think its the 'sheep', the people who follow blindly what has been taught since their birth and believe it is the best the world can be because that's all they know.


Spice perhaps i can answer that question since i seem to be grasping the general idea of it. Those who become greedy or become power hungry are simply noticed by the people, discussed to see if all agree and if so sorted out in a way the people see fit. Example if a person is taking way more than their share of food and putting some to waste then society would simply give them less food.

Radicalgraffitit i totally understand what you mean about the most people didn't work to get to their power. I went to a private school and the amount of kids there parading around like they are top shit with all the new fancy mp3 players and phones and shoes and whatnot with half the school bowing to them. I can only imagine where these kids are now. Probably sitting in their mansion about so shut down one of daddies factories because it isn't making enough money and it will be to expensive and time consuming to fix. Assholes. Now i remember why i hated school so much.

But there are those who have busted their balls to get where they are today. They've studdied and worked there arses off to get that promotion and have done it for their family to give them a better life, not for greed or themself. What of those people. They will be unfairly sucked into the enemy category even though they don't deserve it. Sure some of them will understand and stand with us united but what of the ones who say 'hell no, i've worked too fucking hard to give this shit up'?

[Spasiba]

So cars don't exist in a communist word, just giant public transport systems. Man this just keeps getting better and better. Of course the public transport would have to be 24 hours and free.

not necessarily, that was just blurev's interpretation, cars could and may well exist in a communist world, it's just the capitalist culture- "I want a car! A big, fancy car! That way everyone will know how cool I am!" -its that thought process that would be done away with by natural means, but some people might want themselves a car like that still, maybe they like speed, or just appreciate the art of automobiles, in which case if these cars are being produced, they could get one, or maybe you just want a set of wheels to get somewhere, same, you can have one. I'm assuming the standards would be pretty high though.


Bluerev the hardest part about learning something new is unlearning what has allready been taught. I highly doubt majority of the people i have met through my life would be able to do it without someone drumming it into them. But would that not mean there would be someone in power telling the 'sheep' what to do?

I'm curious how you got into politics then? Everyone can have that 'awakening' moment, some time, maybe we all do, just in different things, and sometimes it may come about because of someone else's influence, but not necessarily forcibly so.


I don't think it's the capitalists holding back change, i think its the 'sheep', the people who follow blindly what has been taught since their birth and believe it is the best the world can be because that's all they know.

These 'sheep' you speak of are our fellow man, and can be moved in the right direction if presented with the truth, of course, some have been more or less brain-washed by the system, or maybe just hold different, although still strongly backed, views, either way, we will find all these kinds of people along the way. The capitalists are to blame because they have created much of the attitude that says to run counter to us, and because they continue to cultivate and exploit these feelings. I believe that if we present our case well, many more would at lease feel less angry at us, if not even join us, and either way I do think that so long as they don't outright mock us and don't give alternate thinking a shot, they can read material on the theory and arrive at their own conclusions, for us or not. Of course, it would be extremely beneficial for them to learn how to critically think and such, which should be taught more in the education system, but that is something we can help out with as well. In that case, though, we should try to appear unbiased so that they feel free to think as they want. When it gets to politics and economics, however, particularly once past the basics, our views will obviously be brought forward.


Spice perhaps i can answer that question since i seem to be grasping the general idea of it. Those who become greedy or become power hungry are simply noticed by the people, discussed to see if all agree and if so sorted out in a way the people see fit. Example if a person is taking way more than their share of food and putting some to waste then society would simply give them less food.

Something like that, if by society you mean the local community. They would probably hold a meeting with them, tell them to stop and such. That's what I think anyway.


Radicalgraffitit i totally understand what you mean about the most people didn't work to get to their power. I went to a private school and the amount of kids there parading around like they are top shit with all the new fancy mp3 players and phones and shoes and whatnot with half the school bowing to them. I can only imagine where these kids are now. Probably sitting in their mansion about so shut down one of daddies factories because it isn't making enough money and it will be to expensive and time consuming to fix. Assholes. Now i remember why i hated school so much.

Possibly true, though you do hear stories of people actually making it. Then they make a movie about it extolling the greatness of capitalism because that happened, forgetting the fact that its movie-worthy because its so rare and that practically no one ever is that successful.
Plus, I should add that owning commodoties like an mp3 player or sweet new shoes, well there's nothing wrong with that, its just the worship of new things, the current style, fitting in, those feelings are used to run capitalism, so without you would probably see much less obession there, though not necessarily all together gone, some people may still want to live that way. IDK.

But there are those who have busted their balls to get where they are today. They've studdied and worked there arses off to get that promotion and have done it for their family to give them a better life, not for greed or themself. What of those people. They will be unfairly sucked into the enemy category even though they don't deserve it. Sure some of them will understand and stand with us united but what of the ones who say 'hell no, i've worked too fucking hard to give this shit up'?


Give what up? A good home? A nice car? They can keep them (assuming they don't own a mansion). There's nothing wrong with that. It's the positions they hold, making money off other people like how they used to be who will all too likely not make it like they did, their positions there will be taken, as that's capitalist. If they prove themselves to be benevolent leaders, then they may be elected to a job at the same place post-revolution that is similar to the one they held before (of course, assuming they weren't simply bosses doing nothing, but perhaps organizing this place, for example)


As I see it, we're not so much fighting the idea of wealth as we are the way it is achieved- through exploitation.

Would that be correct guys?


Keep in mind I'm no expert on anything, this was simply an attempt to clearify the way things as I understand them. So if anyone has something so say about what I said, go ahead, I may well be wrong about everything!

idk why my text is like that but ok!

[phoenixashes]

That makes total sense to me. Thanks for straightening that one out.
I think I'm getting a grasp on what the general idea is here. At least enough of an idea to debate it with impartial people and perhaps convert them to a better way of life.

Pro-capitalists however would probably still dominate me.

[Psy]

To strain the concept further, you asked who would own which brand of car. Firstly, I doubt that there would be any brand of cars. We each have our own concepts of an ideal society. In my mind an ideal society would consist of one where there are no cars. Just massive, environmentally friendly, public transportation systems.

I don't we would totally get rid of cars (as in vehicles not used for public transit). For example there still be tons of pickups, vans and trucks still running around attached to workplaces and used solely by the workers of said workplace. For example organizations looking after power grids would probably have their pickups and trucks that they acquire like any other means of production.

[phoenixashes]

Hrmm and it would be kind of hard for those operating the public transport services to get to their workplace without a means of private transport.

Perhaps some kind of generic car would be created.

[Decolonize The Left]

Hrmm and it would be kind of hard for those operating the public transport services to get to their workplace without a means of private transport.

Perhaps some kind of generic car would be created.

While entertaining, it is rather pointless to speculate about such specific issues when any revolution on the scale necessary to successfully destroy capitalism is far from being realized.

- August

[phoenixashes]

Yes but if we can give people these answers it would help to ignite the revolution. I know i sure as hell wouldn't go along with something if i had no idea what it holds in the long run.

"hey lets catch a plane over to America!"
"Why?"
"I don't know, we'll figure it out when we get there"

See where I'm coming from? Sorry if it seems offensive, none was meant.

[spice756]

So cars don't exist in a communist word, just giant public transport systems. Man this just keeps getting better and better. Of course the public transport would have to be 24 hours and free.

Only free if we find a cheap energy source, has it may be too much if strain.We need to find free energy and get off fossil fuels;)


I don't think it's the capitalists holding back change, i think its the 'sheep', the people who follow blindly what has been taught since their birth and believe it is the best the world can be because that's all they know.



It is the capitalists that will fight to stop communism.


Spice perhaps i can answer that question since i seem to be grasping the general idea of it. Those who become greedy or become power hungry are simply noticed by the people, discussed to see if all agree and if so sorted out in a way the people see fit. Example if a person is taking way more than their share of food and putting some to waste then society would simply give them less food.


May be there should be a ID data-base to stop this.Every thing you get is long in a ID data base ..

[phoenixashes]

Of course it's the capitalists that will fight against it, but its the closed minded uninformed general public holding it back.

It seems all who i speak to about communism seem to relate it directly to violence and dictatorship. They say things like "oh yeah, so if someone gets greedy they will just get shot" and "So what hapens when the person in control gets greedy? He's the one in charge, he'll just shoot anyone who opposes him."

As you can see this pisses me off. But what pisses me of more is the fact that they refuse to believe anything i say against that because of all the rightwing lies that has been pumped into them. I starting to feel like the only way to achieve a revolution is through violence.

[RedHal]

Which is would go with your statement of "you need to be a bit more intelligent than the majority". Which is untrue. The hard part here is not for all of us to learn the concepts of communism but to unlearn the concepts of Capitalism, individualism, etc. which a lot of us were born with (especially if you were born in the U.S.). .

becareful of your wording, people are not born with a capitalist, individualist mindset, that is the rightest argument of human nature. Instead, we are brought up from birth in a capitalist, individualistic environment and I think everyone agrees that the cultural environment plays a huge part in ones development.

As for the greedy people that want more then others, I think in a communist society, they will be a minority. In a communist society the majority will have to have a collective mindset, so the greedy indiviuduals who wants that bigger house will be looked at in a negative light from the community. Greed and individualism will be discouraged since it will have a negative impact on the community, call it peer pressure if you will.

In a capitalist, individualist society, it's the opposite, greedy individuals are glorified are are to be admired. Every man for himself, get rich or die trying.

[spice756]

becareful of your wording, people are not born with a capitalist, individualist mindset, that is the rightest argument of human nature. Instead, we are brought up from birth in a capitalist, individualistic environment and I think everyone agrees that the cultural environment plays a huge part in ones development


People are born in capitalist world and cultural environment plays a big part.People glorified being rich,big house and nice car.Lots of materialism!!

People will have to unlearn this for communism to work.

What should the laws say for greedy indiviuduals or people who do robbery? What should the jails be like for that?

How shuld the courts be fair for the people? Not like the evil courts in capitalism .



It seems all who i speak to about communism seem to relate it directly to violence and dictatorship. They say things like "oh yeah, so if someone gets greedy they will just get shot" and "So what hapens when the person in control gets greedy? He's the one in charge, he'll just shoot anyone who opposes him."

I think to shoot some one who is greedy is wrong may be a month in jail tops.

There would have to be laws in place to stop people who get greedy .People should get audited for possession every 5 months.And every thing a person get is in ID data base.


Would guns be allowed? Can people walk around with guns? If they abolish the military the people need guns .




It seems all who i speak to about communism seem to relate it directly to violence and dictatorship.




This is where laws and police come in to stop this.And if the police are abolish that the working class will have to take action.There would have be some kind of data-base to stop greedy people or people who do crimes.

[F9]

People are born in capitalist world and cultural environment plays a big part.People glorified being rich,big house and nice car.Lots of materialism!!

People will have to unlearn this for communism to work.

What should the laws say for greedy indiviuduals or people who do robbery? What should the jails be like for that?

How shuld the courts be fair for the people? Not like the evil courts in capitalism .




I think to shoot some one who is greedy is wrong may be a month in jail tops.

There would have to be laws in place to stop people who get greedy .People should get audited for possession every 5 months.And every thing a person get is in ID data base.


Would guns be allowed? Can people walk around with guns? If they abolish the military the people need guns .


this is facism,not Communism.Laws,courts,jails,ID database,.Those things have nothing common with Communism!

[spice756]

no , communism,socialism,libertarian,liberal or conservative are not facism.Facism only happen in capitalism in decay and is extreame right of conservative that supports all the below hey points.

It is Militarism ,anti-democracy and liberlism ,authoritarian ,very religious ,totalitarian ,uses news to deceive the people not tell the truth ,anti-freedom of speech ,anti-democracy ,merger of state and corporate power ,class and hierarchy ,businesses control the goverment ,Fassism come to power in economic crisis or depression , Pro- private property ,maintain Warlife frame in people mind ,support the wealthy class not the working class ,Pro-elite and businesses ,Citizen feels mobilized against enemies with in or foreign foes ,Newspapers,TV and communcation must be censored so the public will get the facts the leaders want known ,Freedom of speech is suppressed ,To maintain order they must cut off people from information which might cause them doubt about the system ,Some fasism cam be recial or religious .

Other country or some group with in the country are picked on to look has enemy!! And are the cause of evils or misfortunes !! ,nationalistic ,Any disagreements are treason,Extreme Nationalism ,NO opposition parties , all enemy or opposition is crush by the police ,Fasism centers all power in a single party ,Fasism has a dictator ,The goverment controls religious,political ,social and econmic life ,Pro private ownership,police state,police spy on the people ,saying any thing about the state even a remark is crush by the police and you are punishment ,jailed or killed the opponents


No country in the world to day is fassism.But US does have some of these elements does not make it fassism.It requires all above kay elements .


What is fassism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasism

[spice756]

How is there going to be order in comminism to stop people doing crime like robbery ,killing,greed ,stealing,domestics and disputes, and other crimes.

Who is going to make sure people do not do evil stuff ?And If they do than what ?

[F9]

no , communism,socialism,libertarian,liberal or conservative are not facism.

who said anything that those are facists?especially communism?:blink:
but yeah having jails,punish people,making laws(!) in a free-equal society,having in archives what they do.Those are fascists actions,and again have NOTHING to do with Communism/Anarchism.


How is there going to be order in comminism to stop people doing crime like robbery ,killing,greed ,stealing,domestics and disputes, and other crimes.

why someone steal?stealing is propably the only thing its going to dissappear.No one is going to be in the need of stealing.Greed?:confused:Come on now you punish someone because he is greedy?Anyway greedy would dissappear too,anyone can get what he needs,so the greedy thing wont happen because it wont play any matter.Killings are certainly gona reduce but not extinguished,there propably be killings,and mainly due to facts,that someone may have a "problem",those people wont go in jaile,they will provided health care so they became "ok" and rejoin the community.
If you stand for shooting people for any of the aboves,then you really need to reconsider the matters and see if you are a Communist or not,because Communists dont stand for such "actions".


Who is going to make sure people do not do evil stuff ?And If they do than what ?
Evil stuff?Come on,are we talking seriously for a classless,stateless society,where freedom and equality are the two "goods"?As pointed above some people who may need help due to some problems they have they will get help,and dont imagine any of the now psychiatric clinigs which are worse than jails.This "institutes",whatever you want call them,will help the people with some "problems" to rejoin community.

Fuserg9:star:

[spice756]

who said anything that those are facists?especially communism?
but yeah having jails,punish people,making laws(!) in a free-equal society,having in archives what they do.Those are fascists actions,and again have NOTHING to do with Communism/Anarchism.


sorry I guess I don't understand enough about communism and free-equal society to ****er those problems I'm talking about.




why someone steal?stealing is propably the only thing its going to dissappear.No one is going to be in the need of stealing.Greed?


People steal in capitalism do to greed or because they are poor to get it.People are greedy do to cultural environment and peer pressure of the capitalism system.

I Agree in communism society that this will almost disappear.Why steal or be greedy if there is no class.And you not poor and can get it.

But for what ever reason some still may steal or be greedy.




:confused:Come on now you punish someone because he is greedy?Anyway greedy would dissappear too,anyone can get what he needs,so the greedy thing wont happen because it wont play any matter.

This is where cultural environment and peer pressure are going to have to shape people not to be dreedy or steal.






Killings are certainly gona reduce but not extinguished,there propably be killings,and mainly due to facts,that someone may have a "problem",those people wont go in jaile,they will provided health care so they became "ok" and rejoin the community.

Kiling ,serial killers ,rapists,fighting,domestics are not good and I'm not sure under communism what will be done.Some criminals or others have mental problems.


If you stand for shooting people for any of the aboves,then you really need to reconsider the matters and see if you are a Communist or not,because Communists dont stand for such "actions".


I do not believe people should shoot or kill people for any thing even murder.

[F9]

sorry I guess I don't understand enough about communism and free-equal society to ****er those problems I'm talking about.

thats not a bad thing,instead its very good thing trying to learn and expand your knowledge.If you felt i was offensive,excuse me.;)



People steal in capitalism do to greed or because they are poor to get it.People are greedy do to cultural environment and peer pressure of the capitalism system.

I Agree in communism society that this will almost disappear.Why steal or be greedy if there is no class.And you not poor and can get it.

But for what ever reason some still may steal or be greedy.

I dont see how can someone be greedy in Communism/Anarchism.
If we understand someone stealing in such society,then we firstly talk to him,he might have his reasons,and the problem would solved,but if he would continue stealing he might having something that mentally forces him to steal(i think there is such think anw i am just making perceptions)he would take mentally care,not jail,not laws.



Kiling ,serial killers ,rapists,fighting,domestics are not good and I'm not sure under communism what will be done.Some criminals or others have mental problems.
agreed,they would get help.





I do not believe people should shoot or kill people for any thing even murder.
Ok.Thats good.

Fuserg9:star:

[phoenixashes]

So who is to keep this person in the mental care facility? He/she would have to agree with it and if they didn't they wouldn't have to go and could just leave. In a free society people like this could do whatever they wanted with no fear of repercussions.

It seems there would need to be some form of jail or law enforcement.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to put the person in a comfortable clinic where they can not leave for an indefinite amount of time. No such thing as a 3 year sentence or mandatory minimum sentences. Just an indefinite time until the person is judged mentally fit before they can return to society.

Of course this is horrible and should not happen, but in theory having this system would destroy anyone thinking like that. Then there would be no need for an such institution.

[Psy]

So who is to keep this person in the mental care facility? He/she would have to agree with it and if they didn't they wouldn't have to go and could just leave. In a free society people like this could do whatever they wanted with no fear of repercussions.

It seems there would need to be some form of jail or law enforcement.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to put the person in a comfortable clinic where they can not leave for an indefinite amount of time. No such thing as a 3 year sentence or mandatory minimum sentences. Just an indefinite time until the person is judged mentally fit before they can return to society.

Of course this is horrible and should not happen, but in theory having this system would destroy anyone thinking like that. Then there would be no need for an such institution.
The bulk of current mental illness is caused by the emotional stress caused by current social system. Even the cases were people start shooting shooting strangers is built up emotional frustrations that just exploding in completely illogical and dangerous outlets (like mass murder). For those that still have mental issues, a true communist probably would have the resources to take them out of the labor pool and place them in a relaxing environment were psychiatrists, friends and family can try and help them with their issues.

[phoenixashes]

But what of those beyond help? What of those who have fallen so far they can't get back up?

[Psy]

But what of those beyond help? What of those who have fallen so far they can't get back up?
We are not talking just locking these people up in mental hospitals like capitalist society does now, but society actually going out of its way to do its best to help these people.

[phoenixashes]

I suppose it makes sense. With positive help rather than imprisonment it would give these unfortunate people much more hope and much more reason to change their ways.

As for now I'm done with my questions. Thank you all who posted. I have learned a lot. I shall be back after i have read a few more books. Then once i know whats what... on to activism!

[Schrödinger's Cat]

How is there going to be order in comminism to stop people doing crime like robbery ,killing,greed ,stealing,domestics and disputes, and other crimes.

Who is going to make sure people do not do evil stuff ?And If they do than what ?

Militias that are universally controlled by the people of whatever association can prevent all of these problems. I doubt there will be a need for any institutionalized enforcement outside of some investigators and enforcement officers, and even they would be held to the common desires.


It seems there would need to be some form of jail or law enforcement.As a last resort incarceration isn't unjustifiable per se, but I suspect the prevailing sentiment would not be repeating the mistakes of prison, but rather fruitful exploration of the individual's problems and trying to find a personal remedy.

I don't want to cause any controversy, but we have an active membership that likes to idealize about society. For example, I don't see cars becoming any less present in our lives until a superior system of individual transport emerges. Those who argue public transport should completely or almost completely do away with cars are wrong. Communism is meant to satisfy wants by eliminating the freeloader problem inherit from wealth outside of labor, and by maximizing on scientific management. Bigger houses, bigger cars, more possessions, and better products are good. In fact, from a Marxist perspective, they're necessary to legitimize the movement.

Communism does not equate to incentives depending entirely on social recognition either, although that is a strong argument in its favor. If you do not contribute to the community's standards, you will be on your own. Some people will probably choose this lifestyle, much as we see communes in today's society, and that is fine. Inside the association, you will be working towards an ideal task. For example, you can't just walk into a workers' council and expect to teach children. Your credentials need to be tested. This entails school, and maybe some vocational training. If you want to become a doctor, you still have to perform the tasks of a doctor's assistant. As a last defense of productivity, workers' councils can (and will) use some materialist incentives. If you're a stocker, for example, you may get first (but limited) dibs on new products. The same goes for a factory worker. If an entrepreneur creates something spectacular, the worker council may go above and beyond with some rewards. Who knows? It looks very plausible to me.

Keep in mind the work requirements would be dramatically reduced. Technocrats speculate 8-15 hours a week would be the norm, which is less work than even most part-time employees put forward. All unproductive labor (cashiers, bankers, financial lawyers, military personnel, politicians, tellers, tax collectors, money advisers, telemarketers, market analysists) would be rendered obsolete. I no longer have the numbers available, but I read jobs oriented around money constituted about 1/3 of the current labor force. The public would also invest in automation technology instead of outsourcing labor and stalling the inevitability of automation just because it's cheaper to use human labor than create machines.

[Psy]

I don't want to cause any controversy, but we have an active membership that likes to idealize about society. For example, I don't see cars becoming any less present in our lives until a superior system of individual transport emerges. Those who argue public transport should completely or almost completely do away with cars are wrong. Communism is meant to satisfy wants by eliminating the freeloader problem inherit from wealth outside of labor, and by maximizing on scientific management. Bigger houses, bigger cars, more possessions, and better products are good. In fact, from a Marxist perspective, they're necessary to legitimize the movement.


I don't agree, for cars the product is really transportation, thus logically we would provide fast and efficient that cars simply can't provide. Why would people want to be stuck in traffic jams? Why would people want to hunt for a parking spot only to have to park half a block to where they want to go? The solution is increasing the density of transportation that means public transit. That means making propaganda to tell people how much better it is that they have a bus that stops near their house that is connected to interconnected global mass transit system. Also I think living next to a road where mostly it just two sets (one going in each direction) of buses 15 mins apart driving by is better then a constant stream of cars.

I think you have a misconception that consumption = happiness, were it doesn't.

[spice756]

How is there going to be order in comminism to stop people doing crime like robbery ,killing,greed ,stealing,domestics and disputes, and other crimes.

Who is going to make sure people do not do evil stuff ?And If they do than what ?




Militias that are universally controlled by the people of whatever association can prevent all of these problems. I doubt there will be a need for any institutionalized enforcement outside of some investigators and enforcement officers, and even they would be held to the common desires.


Militias are soldiers who are also civilians.I don't think you would send them to crimes like killing,greed ,stealing,domestics and disputes ?

If there is investigators and enforcement officers would they be organization? And who will see over this?


seems there would need to be some form of law enforcement and courts.To make sure the person is guilty .




I don't want to cause any controversy, but we have an active membership that likes to idealize about society. For example, I don't see cars becoming any less present in our lives until a superior system of individual transport emerges. Those who argue public transport should completely or almost completely do away with cars are wrong.


The problem is Canada and the US has bad transportation and the cities are built auto centric than you walkable streets :(typical of your post WW2 suburbs.In the late 1800's and early 1900's trains ,street cars ,walking was your way of transportation .Cities where built more on a human scale than uto-centric.


Communism is meant to satisfy wants by eliminating the freeloader problem inherit from wealth outside of labor, and by maximizing on scientific management. Bigger houses, bigger cars, more possessions, and better products are good. In fact, from a Marxist perspective, they're necessary to legitimize the movement.


You glorify Britney Spears and Bill Gates ? You think it is morally okay to live that lifestyle ?