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Chapaev
29th August 2008, 23:25
The nationalistic bourgeoisie, liberal intellectuals, reformist trade unions, and bloodthirsty neoconservatives lately have been agitating for "energy independence." They want to stop the consumption of "foreign oil", which is just a euphemism for oil from Arab and Muslim countries.



It is dangerous to be buying billions of dollars worth of oil from nations that are sponsors of or allied with radical Islamists who foment hatred against the United States. The petrodollars we provide such nations contribute materially to the terrorist threats we face. In time of war, it is imperative that our national expenditures on energy be redirected away from those who use them against us
http://www.setamericafree.org/openletter.htm

AN OPEN LETTER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

Congressman Eliot Engel

Frank Gaffney
Center for Security Policy

David A. Harris
American Jewish Committee

Col. (ret.) Bill Holmberg
American Council on Renewable Energy

Anne Korin
Institute for the Analysis of Global Security

Gal Luft
Institute for the Analysis of Global Security

Cliff May
Foundation for the Defense of Democracies

Thomas Neumann
The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA)

Daniel Pipes
Middle East Forum

Hon. R. James Woolsey
Former director of the CIA
Co-Chairman, Committee on the Present Danger

Meyrav Wurmser
Hudson Institute


The concept of "energy independence" is closely tied to the Neo Cons' belief that any type of engagement and interaction with Muslims must be avoided at all costs. The loudest proponents of this new energy independence ideology are the same Neo Cons who pushed for the aggression against Iraq in 2003. The drive for "energy independence" is at its most fundamental level a xenophobic and racist response to a world that has grown beyond America's ability to control. It makes no sense to politicize energy or to think that things will improve if the United States moves toward protectionism. Energy security can only be achieved by accepting global economic interdependence and developing friendly relations with oil exporters. If countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran must import energy, then it would be impossible for the United States to become self-sufficient in energy. The United States cannot become self-sufficient in energy for the same reason why it cannot establish self-sufficiency in uranium, titanium, and even coal. If the Neo Cons were genuinely concerned about "energy independence", then BP would have been kicked out of the U.S. long ago.

The conflation of oil and "terrorism" is not substantiated by any facts. Groups and individuals identified as terrorists such as Bin Laden, Taliban, PLO, Provisional IRA, Tamil Tigers, FARC, and several others did not finance their activities from oil sales. Rather than supporting terrorists, America's client regimes within OPEC such as those in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Qatar, and Bahrain in fact let the United States military bases on their territory and have done as much, if not more, than the United States is combating terrorism.

Nor is it feasible to discontinue the use of fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. Oil consumption in the United States is projected to drastically increase. The alternative energy hyped up by politicians has proven to be ineffective. Even if all the corn in the United States was turned into ethanol, only 5 percent of current demand would be fulfilled. The only effects produced from ethanol are higher prices, higher taxes, increased pollution, soaring food prices, and serious waste of food and water. Ethanol actually uses more energy than it gives.

Nor are solar panels and wind turbines viable alternatives. Even with government subsidies, it would take twenty years to recover the cost of solar panels. Solar panels do not work at night or during the the winter. It is too expensive, cannot provide large enough capacity, and it cannot displace imported oil. It does nothing to impact transportation. Wind turbines cannot provide energy on hot summer days when demand is at its highest. At best, they can produce only ten percent of their capacity. Adding more wind turbines would increase electricity costs. Existing fossil fuels plants would operate less efficiently. Overall, wind turbines would provide no more than 1 percent of projected energy demand even if they were rapidly expanded. Even if nuclear power was to be significantly expanded, uranium would have to be imported.

Vanguard1917
30th August 2008, 12:44
The nationalistic bourgeoisie, liberal intellectuals, reformist trade unions, and bloodthirsty neoconservatives lately have been agitating for "energy independence." They want to stop the consumption of "foreign oil", which is just a euphemism for oil from Arab and Muslim countries

You're right, it's a deeply nationalistic sentiment, and it's not just those on the traditional right supporting it. The idea of 'energy independence' exists alongside the whole chauvinist idea that each country should be self-sufficient and that production should be localised, with trade with the outside world minimalised - something which is supported by many on the 'left', most vocally the environmental movement.

FreeFocus
30th August 2008, 15:53
You're right, it's a deeply nationalistic sentiment, and it's not just those on the traditional right supporting it. The idea of 'energy independence' exists alongside the whole chauvinist idea that each country should be self-sufficient and that production should be localised, with trade with the outside world minimalised - something which is supported by many on the 'left', most vocally the environmental movement.

The OP is correct in his analysis. American imperialists, including neocons, are so concerned about the issue because "energy independence" would be a strategic move to strengthen the hand of American imperialism and also lengthen American primacy. Will it work? Most likely no, and in fact I'd bet on the US becoming even more militarist in the Middle East and, in an era of resource wars, occupying countries for their resources overtly. This partially explains the amazing spending by the US on its military, it's no longer an economic hegemon, but it seeks to maintain its primacy militarily.

In terms of the bolded, I think you need to seriously look at a person's or organization's motivation for pursuing energy independence. It's incredibly narrow-minded to conflate all people who desire energy independence. I believe that vital resources and needs of a community should be as localized as possible. There's no reason why I should be eating food grown in another country with chemicals sprayed all over it to "preserve" it on the long trek of hundreds or thousands of miles. I'm certainly not a nationalist about any of it, because I'm talking about communities, not states.

There's nothing wrong with community self-sufficiency, if you're doing it to benefit the people of your community. Nationalist xenophobia and imperialist intentions should not be conflated with this.

Red_Dialectics
30th August 2008, 17:21
I believe that vital resources and needs of a community should be as localized as possible. There's no reason why I should be eating food grown in another country with chemicals sprayed all over it to "preserve" it on the long trek of hundreds or thousands of miles. I'm certainly not a nationalist about any of it, because I'm talking about communities, not states.

There's nothing wrong with community self-sufficiency, if you're doing it to benefit the people of your community. Nationalist xenophobia and imperialist intentions should not be conflated with this.

I agree :thumbup1:

Sendo
31st August 2008, 13:11
You're right, it's a deeply nationalistic sentiment, and it's not just those on the traditional right supporting it. The idea of 'energy independence' exists alongside the whole chauvinist idea that each country should be self-sufficient and that production should be localised, with trade with the outside world minimalised - something which is supported by many on the 'left', most vocally the environmental movement.

So maybe we should designate North America to make all the food for the world and we'll designate Asia to make all the manufacturing the world.

Localism does indeed suck ass. Because "self-sufficiency" means the exact same thing as "foreigner-hating isolationist". Maybe we should conflate worker "alienation" with "rugged individualism". It's fun to waste land, resources, and labor on inefficient use of resources. Hell, who doesn't love driving the H2 ??! And don't forget that sweet carbon monoxide smell! And why drink local water when I can redundantly trade water with Nepal?

I think Pilger was a dumbass when he reported that "In 1998 Britain imported 240,000 tonnes of pork and 125,000 tonnes of lamb from overseas - and in the same year exported 195,000 tonnes of pork and 102,000 tonnes of lamb to other countries". What an asshat!

LOLZ!

Vanguard1917
31st August 2008, 14:31
So, economic nationalism is fine, then? Boycotting foreign products, products from the developing world, is OK if it's justified using green language?

As i argued in this thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/racism-nationalism-and-t84981/index.html) quite recently, environmentalist politics is increasingly being employed as a means to legitimate all kinds of chauvinist policies in the West.