Obama as Martin Luther King

[hajduk]

America obviosly needs new Martin Luter King and they got that in Obama,so my question is :are Obama getting killed like Martin becouse America still cant alowed that one black man be a president,as you see some natzi groups already try to assasinate Obama becouse he is a black man so in that manner if he getting killed probably hes substitute will be a white man,actualy most of the voters as i see speak about Obama experiance in politics which he republican contender McCaine got it a lot, but under that story i can see that is not experience problem but the colour of the skin,what do you think comraders?

[Lamanov]

are Obama getting killed like Martin becouse America still cant alowed that one black man be a president

Why it can't allow a black man to be president? Because he's black? Like that matters any more.

[Dean]

Obama is totally unlike MLK.

[Dust Bunnies]

Well the media did report an attempt on his life. (but the man was stopped before he could even reach the convention).

[Lamanov]

How convenient.

[apathy maybe]

America obviosly needs new Martin Luter King and they got that in ObamaCome again?

Why does the USA need a new "Martin Luther King"? And how in hell is Obama like that?

I fail to see the connections...

[Dust Bunnies]

Obama is not like MLK.

On a side note if you add an i to MLK it would spell MiLK :D

[ahab]

lol obama is not like MLK, mccain and obama are one in the same fuck em both again we are faced with the decision to vote for one asshole or another, neither one of them are gonna fix shit. Mccain is bush's third term and obama is going to move troops out of iraq and put them all in Afghanistan. 3 new brigades to afghanistan if he wins.

we should vote for no president....

[PigmerikanMao]

As much as I agree with Ahab that both candidates are nowhere near MLK, Obama is still clearly the lesser of two evils when it comes to politics. I think we should all at least vote if given the chance. :rolleyes:

[Bud Struggle]

http://askpang.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sabine5.jpg

Naughty Librarian as VP!! I'm now for McCain! :lol::lol::lol:

[RGacky3]

Damn Tomk, I've never looked at her from that angle, you somehow can make unsexy people sexy, I don't know how you do it.

Anyway, MLK was a convinced Socialist, something Media people and politicians conveniently always leave out.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Anyway, MLK was a convinced Socialist, something Media people and politicians conveniently always leave out.
Source please?

@TomK: Hawt Republican VP is hawt. Go McCain!

Yes I would...

[Plagueround]

I was wondering today what kind of insipid, stupid people would vote for McCain now that his running mate is a former beauty pageant contestant. Now I know. :lol: (Just kidding OIers, you know I love you.)

[Hawk_]

Please don't compare a hero to a celebrity.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Anybody else notice her left nostril is huge?

[Dust Bunnies]

Damn Tomk, I've never looked at her from that angle, you somehow can make unsexy people sexy, I don't know how you do it.

Anyway, MLK was a convinced Socialist, something Media people and politicians conveniently always leave out.

Proof please?

[FreeFocus]

Do not compare an imperialist pig to a man of conscience and action. Although I may disagree with his worldview, King's critiques were dead on.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Comparing Obama to MLK is a little disgraceful. One fights for mild reforms; the other died for a complete upheaval of society.

King was a socialist in his later life, not a liberal reformer. Although he enjoys fame today (outside of the white supremacist circles - er sorry, white "culturists") - he died a hated man for his belief that Vietnam was wrong, that racial prejudice was wrong, and that economic injustice was rampant:

"A voice out of Bethlehem two thousand years ago said that all men are equal ... Jesus of Nazareth wrote no books; he owned no property to endow him with influence. He had no friends in the courts of the powerful. But he changed the course of mankind with only the poor and the despised."

"And one day we must ask the question, 'Why are there forty million poor people in America?' And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth. When you ask that question you begin to question the capitalistic economy."

“For years I labored with the idea of reforming the existing institutions of society, a little change here, a little change there. Now I feel quite differently. I think you’ve got to have a reconstruction of the entire society, a revolution of values.”

“You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry… Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong… with capitalism… There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.”

"True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it is not haphazard and superficial. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."

[GPDP]

The only people who compare Obama to MLK are starry-eyed liberals with tremendous misconceptions about the both of them, and white supremacist trash.

[FreeFocus]

The only people who compare Obama to MLK are starry-eyed liberals with tremendous misconceptions about the both of them, and white supremacist trash.

Pretty much, and it absolutely pisses me the hell off when I see shitheads walking around with a t-shirt that has Obama and King on it. Repulsive.

And it's kind of ironic, Obama's acceptance speech falling on the 45th anniversary of King's "I Have a Dream Speech," that Obama tried to avoid a very direct reference to it, because it might make him seem "too black" or "too militant." This, even with King's image having been whitewashed and his radical politics written off to the dustbin of nonexistence.

If King was still alive today the US would universally revile him.

[Bud Struggle]

This, even with King's image having been whitewashed and his radical politics written off to the dustbin of nonexistence. Just as the left has written off his deep and devoted Christianity?


If King was still alive today the US would universally revile him. And so would the Communists.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Just as the left has written off his deep and devoted Christianity?

And so would the Communists.

That's why he worked with the socialists and communists of his day to enact change. :thumbup1:

Capitalists are so silly.

[IcarusAngel]

And so would the communists.

Disagree. As long as King didn't support forced religion most communists would be fine with him. Only the stalinist branches purge religion, but the communities would indeed be ordered to be secular (religious would be a personal thing, you could have churches, but they would be restricted from ruling at all times to prevent monarchy and the suppression of non-believers and other religions).

The only requirement of a communist is to support the communists' belief in a classless society, and thus an opposition to capitalism (which King opposed).

I don't know that he ever stayed true to communism, he was more of a democratic-socialist.

[Bud Struggle]

That's why he worked with the socialists and communists of his day to enact change. :thumbup1:

Capitalists are so silly.


He worked with the Capitalists, too. He was more of a pragmatist than anything else.

[Bud Struggle]

Disagree. As long as King didn't support forced religion most communists would be fine with him. Only the stalinist branches purge religion, but the communities would indeed be ordered to be secular (religious would be a personal thing, you could have churches, but they would be restricted from ruling at all times to prevent monarchy and the suppression of non-believers and other religions).

The only requirement of a communist is to support the communists' belief in a classless society, and thus an opposition to capitalism (which King opposed).

I don't know that he ever stayed true to communism, he was more of a democratic-socialist.

All I know about that aspect of Communism is having parents that came from Poland--and from what my relatives said, religion wasn't exactly Kosher in those parts when Communism was king.

Maybe some fluffy future Communism will be different--but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Again, I refer back to the EZLN.

Peer-to-peer networks can also be understood to be an expression of communism. Hell, most internet activity is "communist." :thumbup1:

[FreeFocus]

Just as the left has written off his deep and devoted Christianity?

And so would the Communists.

I said that I disagreed with his worldview (Christianity, pacifism, etc). I can't speak for the entire left, and yes, some people on the left have written it off. For me, I critique it, but I have the utmost respect for King and what he envisioned. Additionally, this reimagination of King by American mythologists is much more harmful than any "writing off" of his Christianity people on the left have done.

[Frost]

America obviosly needs new Martin Luter King and they got that in Obama

Considering how disillusioned many Black youth are today, yes. Please, they don't have that in Obama.


so my question is :are Obama getting killed like Martin becouse America still cant alowed that one black man be a president,

No. Actually, many "White Supremacists" view McCain just as bad as Obama. America is going to lose no matter who wins the election.


as you see some natzi groups already try to assasinate Obama becouse he is a black man

That is an outright lie. There was a plot to kill him, but those arrested (Gartrell, Johnson and Adolph) were only suspected to be linked with "White Supremacist" groups.


i can see that is not experience problem but the colour of the skin,what do you think comraders?

Personally, I think the whole "if Obama loses it's because of racism" is a cop-out. Perhaps a small percentage of Americans may vote for McCain out of spite, but I can assure you most of Americans and most "Nazis", "White Supremists" and "White Nationalists" won't vote for Obongo or McInsane, as they are called. Obama is a stuck-up elitist that shouldn't be voted for no matter if he's black, white, mixed, green or purple.

[Comrade_Scott]

America obviosly needs new Martin Luter King and they got that in Obama,so my question is :are Obama getting killed like Martin becouse America still cant alowed that one black man be a president,as you see some natzi groups already try to assasinate Obama becouse he is a black man so in that manner if he getting killed probably hes substitute will be a white man,actualy most of the voters as i see speak about Obama experiance in politics which he republican contender McCaine got it a lot, but under that story i can see that is not experience problem but the colour of the skin,what do you think comraders?

as much shtick as i give MLK obama is not in his category. MLK had action to his words he risked life and limb for his cause and looked for no rewards in fact accepted that he would be killed MLK is a god compared to obama and dont you forget it.

[Comrade_Scott]

Considering how disillusioned many Black youth are today, yes. Please, they don't have that in Obama.



No. Actually, many "White Supremacists" view McCain just as bad as Obama. America is going to lose no matter who wins the election.



That is an outright lie. There was a plot to kill him, but those arrested (Gartrell, Johnson and Adolph) were only suspected to be linked with "White Supremacist" groups.



Personally, I think the whole "if Obama loses it's because of racism" is a cop-out. Perhaps a small percentage of Americans may vote for McCain out of spite, but I can assure you most of Americans and most "Nazis", "White Supremists" and "White Nationalists" won't vote for Obongo or McInsane, as they are called. Obama is a stuck-up elitist that shouldn't be voted for no matter if he's black, white, mixed, green or purple.

dude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazisdude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazis:lol:

[redSHARP]

i hope to god he isnt killed!

[Bud Struggle]

dude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazisdude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazis:lol:

You can say that again! :lol:

Though, I do agree with you that those Stormfronters are a bunch of wackos.

[Frost]

dude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazisdude you also forgot to mention the fact that most white supremicists want him elected as seen on stormfront because they belive that it will bring america to a racial awakening an dthus start a race war lol stupid nazis:lol:

I haven't seen any evidence of that. Acutally, I came across a recent thread that would point to the opposite. I just joined this forum so I don't have the post count to throw a link up. Under their opposing views section they have a thread called Wouldn't Obama be a Better Pick for WNs? A quick look would dispell any "Racial Holy War" hopes as a result of the election.

[Sendo]

i hope to god he isnt killed!

Why? Do you think people would rally around his party or something?

What would suck is if there *attempts* on his life. That always raises approval points. Not to mention it would to him what the assassination of JFK did to JFK, namely making people think he was far more progressive than he actually was. I do think JFK was taken out by a right-wing extremist branch of the ruling class, but he was no hero or visionary. I always tell people that besides Vietnam, his civil rights record (lack of), the Bay of Pigs, and the Cuban missile Crisis, JFK was a terrific liberal!!

[RGacky3]

Proof please?

I thought it was common knowledge, but anyway, heres a couple arcticles I found quick.

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/1030

http://www.isreview.org/issues/58/feat-MLK.shtml

This is an anti-socialist article - http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/02-91.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king#FBI, just read about it he's pretty socialist leaning, listed under American Socialists.

The FBI did'nt watch King because they were afraid of anti-racism, they were afraid because King was starting to touch on class, which will scare the hell out of any Capitalist government.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Obama is totally unlike MLK.

Quite right, Obama isn't in the habit of plagiarizing his body of work.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Quite right, Obama isn't in the habit of plagiarizing his body of work.

Oh boy. One classifiable instance from college does not develop into "his body of work." What a spin. I do hope you appreciate the phrase: we're all human.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Oh boy. One classifiable instance from college does not develop into "his body of work." What a spin. I do hope you appreciate the phrase: we're all human.

One instance? You should read Theodore Pappas' The Writings of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Other Prominent Americans. In it you will find:


King's Nobel Prize Lecture, for example, is plagiarized extensively from works by Florida minister J. Wallace Hamilton; the section on Gandhi and nonviolence in his "Pilgrimage" speech are stolen virtually verbatim from Harris Wofford's speech on the same topic; the frequently replayed climax to the “I Have a Dream” speech—the “from every mountianside, let freedom ring” portion—is taken directly from a 1952 address to the Republican National Convention by a black preacher named Archibald Carey; the 1968 sermon in which King prophesied his martyrdom was based on works by J.Wallace Hamilton and Methodist minister Harold Bosley; even the “Letter From Birmingham City Jail”, that “great American essay” so often reproduced in textbooks on composition, is based on work by Harry Fosdick, H.H. Crane, and Harris Wofford.... (pg 94).

That's just the tip of the iceberg. He also plagiarized extensively at Morehouse College and during his 7 years of graduate study at BU.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

One instance? You should read Theodore Pappas' The Writings of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Other Prominent Americans. In it you will find:
King's Nobel Prize Lecture, for example, is plagiarized extensively from works by Florida minister J. Wallace Hamilton; the section on Gandhi and nonviolence in his "Pilgrimage" speech are stolen virtually verbatim from Harris Wofford's speech on the same topic; the frequently replayed climax to the “I Have a Dream” speech—the “from every mountianside, let freedom ring” portion—is taken directly from a 1952 address to the Republican National Convention by a black preacher named Archibald Carey; the 1968 sermon in which King prophesied his martyrdom was based on works by J.Wallace Hamilton and Methodist minister Harold Bosley; even the “Letter From Birmingham City Jail”, that “great American essay” so often reproduced in textbooks on composition, is based on work by Harry Fosdick, H.H. Crane, and Harris Wofford.... (pg 94).
That's just the tip of the iceberg. He also plagiarized extensively at Morehouse College and during his 7 years of graduate study at BU.

Your citation is a dubious example of smudging the boundaries of practicality. I scanned Pappas' work a few years ago, and he lumps inspiration into plagiarism. They are not taken word-for-word, nor do the alleged cases of plagiarism take up even a reasonable portion of his speeches. As a side comparison, the popular teenage novel Eragon is a bigger work of plagiarism than any of King's speeches. Consider the source next time. Pappas aligns himself with the same paleoconservative movement as Pat Buchanan, whom was openly critical of King before these allegations were even public. Please decommission my suspicions that you actually see the racist Pat Buchanan in a positive light.

This pandering to dissection is quite useless. Few would deny that King was a progressive force for his era, and he certainly is someone to admire. All people have their character flaws. They shouldn't be ignored, but if you're looking for angels, read a religious book centered in Western and Middle Eastern thought. Wilberforce was a practical theocrat, Jefferson owned slaves, and Adam Smith only slightly acknowledged the plights of native populations. Are you interested in throwing these points out whenever their names are brought up? Even worse: you create a hyperbole out of an issue to make yourself appear better equipped at judgment. If King plagiarized his "I Have a Dream" speech from a friend, Obama falls under the same category for the past incident involving his own friend's words.

[RGacky3]

I think its strange that people like to take any black person that has any power and call him a "black leader" or something, like just because he's black he's someone black people should look up to, thats rediculous.

[RGacky3]

He worked with the Capitalists, too. He was more of a pragmatist than anything else.

Yeah, because working with Communists in the United States was such a practical thing to do in the 50s and 60s :P

[Flash]

America obviosly needs new Martin Luter King and they got that in Obama,so my question is :are Obama getting killed like Martin becouse America still cant alowed that one black man be a president,as you see some natzi groups already try to assasinate Obama becouse he is a black man so in that manner if he getting killed probably hes substitute will be a white man,actualy most of the voters as i see speak about Obama experiance in politics which he republican contender McCaine got it a lot, but under that story i can see that is not experience problem but the colour of the skin,what do you think comraders?



I don't see any reason for another MLK. The blacks in America already have equal rights now. Another MLK will be similiar to that of an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. Another 'black leader' that will preach white guilt. One that would also praise the ghetto-mentality of the blacks. Obama raised a good point actually when he pointed out how many black children resorted to gang violence at the fault of their fathers leaving. He encouraged family values in the 'african-american' community. And the response from Jackson was, "Hes talking down to black men."





I think its strange that people like to take any black person that has any power and call him a "black leader" or something, like just because he's black he's someone black people should look up to, thats rediculous.

Heres the thing about Obama though. He isn't really an African-american. He is descendent of Kenyans. His ancestors weren't slaves. They didn't fight for Civil Rights. And of course hes half-white. I don't understand how so many blacks would consider him one of their own?

[Plagueround]

Another 'black leader' that will preach white guilt. One that would also praise the ghetto-mentality of the blacks.

Care to explain that remark? The "ghetto-mentality of the blacks"? What does that even mean and why do you attribute it to a whole race? I have an idea of what you're referring to, and not only is it offensive and stereotypical, but it's something neither Sharpton or Jackson promote or support.

[Flash]

Care to explain that remark? The "ghetto-mentality of the blacks"? What does that even mean and why do you attribute it to a whole race? I have an idea of what you're referring to, and not only is it offensive and stereotypical, but it's something neither Sharpton or Jackson promote or support.

Jackson tolerates the ghetto-culture of the Black community. Howcome when Obama said that black fathers shouldn't leave their familys, Jesse Jackson replied, "He is talking down to black men?"

When Bill Cosby said black people needed to speak English and take on more self-responsibility, the Black community knew he was right, they're not stupid. They just didn't like dirty laundry being publicized over MSM.

[Plagueround]

Jackson tolerates the ghetto-culture of the Black community. Howcome when Obama said that black fathers shouldn't leave their familys, Jesse Jackson replied, "He is talking down to black men?"

When Bill Cosby said black people needed to speak English and take on more self-responsibility, the Black community knew he was right, they're not stupid. They just didn't like dirty laundry being publicized over MSM.

You have not answered my question. What ghetto culture of what Black community? What is a "ghetto culture"? You cannot lump all black people into some invisible stereotype like that just because the news media likes to portray them in a particular light.

I'm inclined to agree with Jesse Jackson in that Obama was talking down to black men, as if they're all automatically inclined to leave their families.

[Flash]

You have not answered my question. What ghetto culture of what Black community? What is a "ghetto culture"?

It means you embrace a thug lifestyle and speak broken english.



I'm inclined to agree with Jesse Jackson in that Obama was talking down to black men, as if they're all automatically inclined to leave their families.

Statistically blacks are known to leave their family more than the other races. This could be due to the fact that THEIR fathers left them at a young age, so they do the same.

It is well known that the media favours White-on-Black crimes, and so do Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. You would rarely see them protest at a black-on-black crime or a black-on-white crime.
img244.imageshack(dot)us/img244/3781/graph1pv3(dot)gif

This was a study conducted by the Department of Justice where people were asked if they were a victim of a violent crime, and if so what was their race gender. Above is the results.

[Plagueround]

It means you embrace a thug lifestyle and speak broken english.


Oh, so like the massive "redneck" culture that's been embraced throughout America? I wasn't aware the majority of American blacks acted like thugs...maybe I've been hanging out with all the wrong people, or maybe it's a lifestyle that's perpetuated by the media because it helps promote a doctrine of fear and allows for "PC racism", as well as sell a few hip hop albums along the way.


Statistically blacks are known to leave their family more than the other races. This could be due to the fact that THEIR fathers left them at a young age, so they do the same.And what other factors could lead to this? I bet it has nothing to do with socio-economic conditions that these people live in and it's all a matter of their genetics. Something in black genes makes them irresponsible and lazy. It's all so clear now.:rolleyes:


It is well known that the media favours White-on-Black crimes, and so do Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. You would rarely see them protest at a black-on-black crime or a black-on-white crime.

This was a study conducted by the Department of Justice where people were asked if they were a victim of a violent crime, and if so what was their race gender. Above is the results.While Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson definitely have their biases, last I checked they tend to protest crimes where they perceive the judgement to be biased or unfair against blacks. I still fail to see what any of these studies say about race...only what they say about the conditions that have been created around blacks in America. Statistics by themselves do not paint the entire picture.

[Flash]

Oh, so like the massive "redneck" culture that's been embraced throughout America? I wasn't aware the majority of American blacks acted like thugs...maybe I've been hanging out with all the wrong people, or maybe it's a lifestyle that's perpetuated by the media because it helps promote a doctrine of fear and allows for "PC racism", as well as sell a few hip hop albums along the way.

I wouldn't have a gun in my house because a redneck might break in. Would you feel safer walking through Detroit or Tennessee?

Due to socio-economic conditions from their broken homes, thus they follow a thug-like culture. If someone wants to lead the black community then they would have to address this. Fatherless blacks statistically have a higher chance of dropping out of High School. So why don't these adults take responsibility? That is why Bill Cosby is telling them to-- WAKE UP.

If you go to Detroit or any majority black-inhabited city you would see the thug culture that I was referring to. Or Southern USA is a huge example of the race-wars between Latinos and Blacks. Both are highly likely to commit crimes than whites. Thats just how it is. Is it because they're poor or because they have lousy parents that don't understand how to teach their offspring? Why is it that the Far-Left is pushing America to go down the route of South Africa and not do anything about their country? Yeah lets let the minoritys walk all over us because we built a nation with the most advanced Constitution. All because we took them as slaves we have to excuse their current criminal-centered culture? I don't think so, thats not a wise approach.
And as opposed to be held as slaves by America, they would've been slaves to other african tribes.



And what other factors could lead to this? I bet it has nothing to do with socio-economic conditions that these people live in and it's all a matter of their genetics. Something in black genes makes them irresponsible and lazy. It's all so clear now.:rolleyes:

And many are poor because of broken families. And they're more likely to commit crimes than blacks with both parents. Its silly to put the blame 100% of economic issues. You can't excuse someone from murder due to his lack of luxurys. And how do you expect to get a job wearing gang colors and talking in ebonic slang?

And let me ask you this, why are these millionaire rappers that have lived in 'American dream' still embracing a culture revolved around violence? Every month you here about a rapper going to jail, getting shot, threatening someone in their lyrics, etc....
How can this be an economic problem?


While Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson definitely have their biases, last I checked they tend to protest crimes where they perceive the judgement to be biased or unfair against blacks. I still fail to see what any of these studies say about race...only what they say about the conditions that have been created around blacks in America. Statistics by themselves do not paint the entire picture.


Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are basically black seperatists (of course the other kind of seperatists are not okay for some reason). The media doesn't go after them whatsoever, period. Compare the Don Imus situation to the Jesse Jackson Obama comments. Then you would see what I mean.


just because the news media likes to portray them in a particular light.

Reminds me of Chris rock, "I don't carry a gun with me because of the media"

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=IZtQUEY1IU8

[Plagueround]

I wouldn't have a gun in my house because a redneck might break in. Would you feel safer walking through Detroit or Tennessee?

Well, the last few times I was harassed and intimidated on the streets of a major city was by white people, whereas most if not all interactions with blacks, hispanics, and "other" have been positive. But since I'm not going to judge an entire group solely on personal experience or lone statistics, I'm going to say that question is "above my pay grade".


Due to socio-economic conditions from their broken homes, thus they follow a thug-like culture.

You're really going to need to provide some prove that this is how the majority of blacks act other than vague references to "they". Even your statistics demonstrate that the problems seem to focus on particular age groups. I'm more inclined to believe you see a thug-like culture because it supports your obvious ethnocentrism.


If someone wants to lead the black community then they would have to address this. Fatherless blacks statistically have a higher chance of dropping out of High School. So why don't these adults take responsibility? That is why Bill Cosby is telling them to-- WAKE UP.

Did you ever consider that the reason we have a "black community" is not simply because all the blacks holed up together and said "hey let's commit a bunch of crimes!"

These neighborhoods you're referring to are largely a result of segregation and racism, they were intentionally oppressed to be poor and unsuccessful, and now, because you feel equally opportunity is there it must be so? If the problem stems from political, social, and racial injustice, it's going to take a lot more than simply telling people to "take responsibility" for the situations they are not 100% responsible for. Certainly it will take some action from the people in these situations, most situations that need to be fixed do, but to turn a blind eye and say it's all on them is ignorant at best and racist at worst. I'm not entirely sure what Bill Cosby says on the subject because he stopped being funny a long time ago (I blame Ghost Dad) but I would hope he doesn't place the blame entirely on "black America" while ignoring all other conditions surrounding their social problems.

On a somewhat related tangent...I've talked to friends from other countries all over the world, and many of them find it odd there is even a view of blacks as a seperate racial identity.

You know, I was responding to this point by point, I'm going to have to cut it short for now. I'll come back later.

[Sendo]

Flash, you are racist. What you say is not uncommon, though, it is the result of institutional racism. We are too often trained to blame the victims as their own worst enemy, as if an entire race has a 100% rate of individual misconduct.

As far as irresponsible black fathers goes...are there not whites who sleep around? Oh yeah, but they have access to sex ed and abortions. I can't stand hearing white bread America get on its hypocritical pedestal and preach about "family values" and "responsibility". You expect everyone in the African-American communities throughout the USA to simply all will themselves and their offspring to prosperity. You're asking a lot considering: urban living conditions, history of racism, the dismantling of social services that level the playing field (like affordable education), lead in the drinking water, electoral disenfranchisement, the list goes on and on.

I don't know. Maybe you're just no comfortable around Negroes. That happens a lot, too. A lot of 1800s abolitionists wanted to "free" the slaves so they could be forcibly removed and sent "back" to colonies in West Africa.

[FreeFocus]

Are racists allowed in OI? If not, I think it's clear Flash should be axed, or at least have his status changed to Counterrevolutionary..

[Bud Struggle]

Are racists allowed in OI? If not, I think it's clear Flash should be axed, or at least have his status changed to Counterrevolutionary..

There's an easy solution. Check his last post with the stats on Black drop out rates, single parent households, crimes committed by blacks--especially Black on Black crime, etc. If it seem that he is making things up--he's a racist, if he's telling the truth--than you are vastly misinformed about American life.

It's easy enough to check the facts. :)

[Plagueround]

There's an easy solution. Check his last post with the stats on Black drop out rates, single parent households, crimes committed by blacks--especially Black on Black crime, etc. If it seem that he is making things up--he's a racist, if he's telling the truth--than you are vastly misinformed about American life.

It's easy enough to check the facts. :)

However if he goes on to suggest that race is a motivator behind such things and steretypes an entire race as embracing a "thug lifestyle", he's a racist.

[RGacky3]

Flahs is suggesting that cultural factors might play a part as well as socio-economic factors, thats FAR from racism, thats not racism at all, you can't just label something as racist becaus you don't agree with it.

That being said, culture generally comes aobut due to socio-economic factors, that goes for the so-called "gang banging thug" culture and the "redneck" culture.


I don't know. Maybe you're just no comfortable around Negroes. That happens a lot, too.

Where did you get that from? Did he say that at all?

You can't have a serious discussion about race, and accuse everyone that does'nt agree with you as being racist, racism is much more serious than that.


And as opposed to be held as slaves by America, they would've been slaves to other african tribes.


If we were talking about African politics maybe that point would count, but we're not, and it does'nt make slavery in America any less discusting.


Yeah lets let the minoritys walk all over us because we built a nation with the most advanced Constitution

"Walk all over us"??? Are you freaking kidding me? The people that walk all over us are the ones that fire us for organizing, lay us off, keep us poor, work us to death for their own wealth, raise our rents, evict us, and so on, and those ones are a class not a race, and its a class that has black, white and hispanic people in it. The so called "thugs" your talking about may rob people but by no means are they walking all over us, maybe walking over the people in their neighborhoods (who are generally minorities as well), but not nearly enough to say they "Walk all over us".

I'm sick of people dividing things up into race, like saying black people turn to crime, or white people are privileged. POOR people are likely to turn to crime, and RICH people are privileged, leave race out of it.

The fact that there are proportionately more poor minorities should'nt make a difference, that means we'll be fighting for proportaionately more minorities, (By fighting for ALL the poor), we don't want to Fix the system, its unfixable, we want to change it.

[pusher robot]

However if he goes on to suggest that race is a motivator behind such things and steretypes an entire race as embracing a "thug lifestyle", he's a racist.

He didn't, you're just being a politically-correct nazi, trying to stop the discussion because it's going somewhere that makes you uncomfortable.

People like you are why so little progress has been made in the last fifty years. Because you're unwilling to examine social problems as they really are, instead preferring to pretend that they were what you want them to be.

[RGacky3]

However if he goes on to suggest that race is a motivator behind such things and steretypes an entire race as embracing a "thug lifestyle", he's a racist.

If he did, he would be, but he did'nt.

[Sendo]

one analysis of social conditions would lead one to push for more social and economic and environmental justice: fighting overt racism, fighting economic/educational inequities, and health problems and infrastructure collapse that plague many ghettos.

Another analysis says the only culture blacks can come up with is thug culture. They have nothing to contribute to our culture or any culture. As matter of fact they represent the opposite of culture and sophistication. We need angry black role models to go around using guilt trips, rally pissed whites, and fix families with moral suasion. Hell, moral suasion works just........oh wait, it's never accomplished diddly squat.

You can also see the racism inherent in the double standards. Why is it okay for Obama to accuse blacks of being KFC and Popeye's addicts who abandon their children but whenever someone talks about systemic racism against colored people that person is called a hate monger and is accused of trying to resurrect the now buried and forgotten racial feelings? How come it's only when Katrina happens that we get a few voices that say the federal govt and the Louisiana govt don't give a damn about helping poor blacks get out safely and return safely? We rail against black fathers for being less than perfect while we enjoy a system that obviously prefers "Middle America" and prefers "family values" and that bootstraps bullshit.

[Plagueround]

He didn't, you're just being a politically-correct nazi, trying to stop the discussion because it's going somewhere that makes you uncomfortable.


Some of his points would be valid if he didn't constantly frame them as being a problem that affects an entire race. Thus far he has yet to address or clarify the stance that this is NOT something that affects an entire race of people and that there is some countrywide "black community", instead taking cheap shots and suggesting all blacks are baggy clothes wearing morons who talk funny. He's exhibiting racist tendencies and is at the very least ethnocentric...it has nothing to do with me trying to force political correctness. If he would like to clarify, then I'll be glad to concede he's not a racist. Unlike some people on this forum I am willing to admit when I've been wrong or overly harsh.

Never did I intend to suggest that the cultural identity that some blacks choose to follow isn't part of the problem, and if anything in my posts make it seem like I didn't acknowledge that it plays a part I apologize. However, to place such a huge blame on the culture (and ignore the many other aspects of black culture that have NOTHING to do with "thug life") and ignore the deeper social conditions that create and fuel it is like trying to put out a fire on the ground by pouring water on the treetops. Also...


People like you are why so little progress has been made in the last fifty years. Because you're unwilling to examine social problems as they really are, instead preferring to pretend that they were what you want them to be....people like me are the ones who have made the most progress. You know nothing about the things I've accomplished because there isn't a dollar amount attached to it.

[Sendo]

If he did, he would be, but he did'nt.

It is almost implied. Doublethink happens all the time. It is quite possible to believe there is no genetic link, but rather an unfortunate tradition of inferiority and then have that conflate with racial prejudices. It's irrational but the human mind is capable of irrational thought.

Ever heard the phrase "Middle America"? It's that stupid idea of the white bread family in the West/Mid-West who goes to Church, mows their lawns, and doesn't have sex until marriage. Works hard, is independent, and speaks English. Doesn't like murderers but quietly watches mass murder unfold on CNN. Who moans about fighting the crack epidemic in black neighborhoods of cities but won't discuss the elephant in the room called crystal meth.

I don't need to say all that, but if I say "Middle America", it's instinctual to think of the white (or white-ified) suburbanites who are all cheery and "Leave It to Beaver" in their behavior....and carry a positive, patriotic, even divine connotation.

You don't have to say "All niggers is stupid 'cause they're jungle monkeys" in order to be racist. That's old timey racism.

[Red Anarchist of Love]

it is dicusting to even comare that pupet to the community organizer, reformer, and humanitarina MLK. look at the way obama links himself with the clinton's and the democratic party as a whole what have they ever done for humanity espcaliy the unprivlage and the poor.

[Faux Real]

I wouldn't have a gun in my house because a redneck might break in. Would you feel safer walking through Detroit or Tennessee?Detroit for sure.
Heh, lets try a little role-reversal. Would you be compelled to own a gun if you happened to be a black man residing in a sympathetic white-supremacist town? Yeah.

Your middle-class ass doesn't have to worry because you're in the safe neighbourhood. All those friendly white faces there to comfort you.

Due to socio-economic conditions from their broken homes, thus they follow a thug-like culture.Thug-like? People may have their different tastes in music, clothing, and material posessions, but it's not an entirely conscious choice that people make - in fact it's almost fed to them. Segregated housing, low-wage jobs, substandard education, half-assed TV programming, and monopolized radio stations don't send out a productive message that will help out people empower themselves and those around them to break out of the chains holding them down.

If someone wants to lead the black community then they would have to address this.Many others have, look up Michael Eric Dyson or Cornel West for example.

So why don't these adults take responsibility? That is why Bill Cosby is telling them to-- WAKE UP. :lol: Out of every contemporary black "leader" Bill Cosby is the ideal person to preach what the poor black community already knows? Other than sit there for the camera with a sitcom that never had any real connection to the majority of african-americans nor was reflective of their living conditions, the only reason he was so successful in white markets was due to the fact that he never talked about race in his stand up routines or on the Cosby Show. Had he and his producers spun it into a civil rights esque program it would have never made so much money. His "wake up" message is a hollow one and he knows it.

If you go to Detroit or any majority black-inhabited city you would see the thug culture that I was referring to.Thug culture = African Americans walking along the street?

Or Southern USA is a huge example of the race-wars between Latinos and Blacks.What race wars?

Both are highly likely to commit crimes than whites. Thats just how it is.Yeah, how dare they shoplift when they barely can afford monthly services?

Is it because they're poor or because they have lousy parents that don't understand how to teach their offspring? What's there to teach? About the neglect their parents have gone through?

Why is it that the Far-Left is pushing America to go down the route of South Africa and not do anything about their country?"Pushing America" to "not do anything"? Quite a contradiction. South Africa indeed did do something: bringing about an end to apartheid. (That's a good thing!)

Yeah lets let the minoritys walk all over us because we built a nation with the most advanced Constitution.As a minority I spit on your shitty constitution, all of which has been shown to be arbitrarily revoked by the president. What you really need is to scrap it with localized constitutions free of loopholes that will be viable for economic & social justice worldwide. Or better, no constitutions and global free associations between workers.

All because we took them as slaves we have to excuse their current criminal-centered culture? I don't think so, thats not a wise approach. What is a wise approach then? Perhaps it's not wise because you're not using that superior racial wisdom granted to your ilk.

"They" are not victims of slavery alone. There is post-slavery neglect, economic stratification, social heirarchy, and isolation to thank.

And as opposed to be held as slaves by America, they would've been slaves to other african tribes.:lol: This coming from the "most advanced constitution"? In terms of hipocracy, definitely.

And let me ask you this, why are these millionaire rappers that have lived in 'American dream' still embracing a culture revolved around violence? They are being forced by major record labels to transmit this faux-gangster image that will result in major commodity sales while giving this perception that they lived life on the streets. Otherwise they won't be signed on to make another album.

Every month you here about a rapper going to jail, getting shot, threatening someone in their lyrics, etc....
How can this be an economic problem?We black folk just have this inherent savagery in our blood, we is so very sorry massa. :rolleyes:

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are basically black seperatists (of course the other kind of seperatists are not okay for some reason).Their racial "separatism" is not based on racial superiority but acknowledgement that reliance on the very forces that enslaved their communities cannot possibly be the same ones that will liberate them from it.

[RGacky3]

(or white-ified)

What the hell is White-ified??? I would consider that a little racist, the notion that someone who is financially successful and passive is "whitish" or whatever is rediculous.

"Middle America" barely exists, and people (of all races) worry as much about meth as they do crack, and as much about the war in iraq as they do street crime.

Saying one attitude is "white" while the other is "black" is both incorrect and somewhat racist.


Other than sit there for the camera with a sitcom that never had any real connection to the majority of african-americans nor was reflective of their living conditions, the only reason he was so successful in white markets was due to the fact that he never talked about race in his stand up routines or on the Cosby Show

He grew up in the projects in philidelphia. I think he was successful in both white and black markets because he was funny and generally family friendly, remember, Richard Pryor was also successful in both white and black markets.


What race wars?

I don't know about the south, but in LA a lot of Latino Gangs are extreamly racist against blacks.


And let me ask you this, why are these millionaire rappers that have lived in 'American dream' still embracing a culture revolved around violence? They are being forced by major record labels to transmit this faux-gangster image that will result in major commodity sales while giving this perception that they lived life on the streets. Otherwise they won't be signed on to make another album.

They're doing it the same reason any pop singer does it, it sells, they want to make money, the same as anyone else. Black business men are the same as white ones, they want a profit, they do what sells, and that tough guy "we don't love them ho's" Gangster image sells, to black kids and white kids, so they sell it, its the entertainment BUSINESS.

[bcbm]

Due to socio-economic conditions from their broken homes

Other way around. See the work of William Julius Wilson. He basically destroys everything you're arguing.

[Flash]

I missed a lot, let me cetch up.


Well, the last few times I was harassed and intimidated on the streets of a major city was by white people, whereas most if not all interactions with blacks, hispanics, and "other" have been positive. But since I'm not going to judge an entire group solely on personal experience or lone statistics, I'm going to say that question is "above my pay grade".

This is a little off-topic but its not just blacks that have bad culture in America, its white kids too. America altogether is degenerating.

[qutoe]You're really going to need to provide some prove that this is how the majority of blacks act other than vague references to "they". Even your statistics demonstrate that the problems seem to focus on particular age groups. I'm more inclined to believe you see a thug-like culture because it supports your obvious ethnocentrism. [/quote]

Interesting. But I just dont' want to see America become like another South Africa. Where minoritys are given special privelidges over whites due to 'oppression'. I will be honest and say that I do see blacks embracing a thuggish embracing culture from my own experiences. Those Hip Hop artists are extremely violent and largely embraced by the community. And blacks tend to stick together and collectivise in groups while when Whites do it, it is wrong. Being a black seperatist is fighting against oppression, but a white seperatist or anyone that is proud to be of European descent is wrong.




Did you ever consider that the reason we have a "black community" is not simply because all the blacks holed up together and said "hey let's commit a bunch of crimes!"

You have to admit that a lot of African-Americans think very collectively. I read somewheres that something like 96% of Blacks voted for Obama in Pennsylvania lol.

This is where I'm a little uneasy with Libertarians, when they tell me, "Everyone should think as an individual". Yet do they seriously believe that Latinos will all think of themselves as individuals when they become a majority in America? Do you guys honesetly think they don't want the land back which they claim is rightfully theirs?



These neighborhoods you're referring to are largely a result of segregation and racism, they were intentionally oppressed to be poor and unsuccessful, and now, because you feel equally opportunity is there it must be so? If the problem stems from political, social, and racial injustice, it's going to take a lot more than simply telling people to "take responsibility" for the situations they are not 100% responsible for. Certainly it will take some action from the people in these situations, most situations that need to be fixed do, but to turn a blind eye and say it's all on them is ignorant at best and racist at worst. I'm not entirely sure what Bill Cosby says on the subject because he stopped being funny a long time ago (I blame Ghost Dad) but I would hope he doesn't place the blame entirely on "black America" while ignoring all other conditions surrounding their social problems.

I am open to your arguement though. When black people have been oppressed for so long in America it is hard to recover. However from my own experiences there is a definent double standard and these black leaders aren't addressing some of the most important issues in the community.

Flash, you are racist.


I wouldn't say that. I'm just really against Al Shaprton and types like him that accept a double standard. I'm more about Western Culture than racialism.





As far as irresponsible black fathers goes...are there not whites who sleep around? Oh yeah, but they have access to sex ed and abortions. I can't stand hearing white bread America get on its hypocritical pedestal and preach about "family values" and "responsibility". You expect everyone in the African-American communities throughout the USA to simply all will themselves and their offspring to prosperity. You're asking a lot considering: urban living conditions, history of racism, the dismantling of social services that level the playing field (like affordable education), lead in the drinking water, electoral disenfranchisement, the list goes on and on.

Thats true they've been persecuted a lot but when something like 80% of black criminals don't have a father or whatever you have to take that into consideration too.



That happens a lot, too. A lot of 1800s abolitionists wanted to "free" the slaves so they could be forcibly removed and sent "back" to colonies in West Africa.


The dumb thing about that though is even if they wanted to go back to Africa they couldn't since they wouldn't be able to afford it.



Their racial "separatism" is not based on racial superiority but acknowledgement that reliance on the very forces that enslaved their communities cannot possibly be the same ones that will liberate them from it.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do not go after very tough issues. Why don't they disagree with the violent lyrics in rap music? They do, but not enough. You'll never see them picketing it. Instead they will go after someone poltically incorrect radio host such as Don Imus. How is that a serious issue?


Now you are putting Whites and Blacks in Collectivist groups, same thing I was criticized for doing.


Heh, lets try a little role-reversal. Would you be compelled to own a gun if you happened to be a black man residing in a sympathetic white-supremacist town? Yeah.

Your middle-class ass doesn't have to worry because you're in the safe neighbourhood. All those friendly white faces there to comfort you.


There are very few 'White Supremacists' anymore, now it is White Nationalists and White segregationists. Judging by the crime statiscists between Detroit and the country, I would rather be out in the country even if I were black.



Many others have, look up Michael Eric Dyson or Cornel West for example.

Then why isn't CNN, MSNBC, or Fox having these people on instead of Al Sharpton and Jackson?



What race wars?

If you go to cities with high illegal immigration or Latino populations and black populations there is a huge divide.


"Pushing America" to "not do anything"? Quite a contradiction. South Africa indeed did do something: bringing about an end to apartheid. (That's a good thing!)

But you seem to have a sepreatist attitude already by supporting Sharpton and Jackson. And South Africa now offers more oppurtunitys to blacks than the Whites in the nation. A lot of people justify persecution of whites in Rhodesia and South Africa, since it is the black's continent. People even demand for the whites to leave there. But couldn't the same be said about Europe? Why does Europe have to accept Multiculturilist hoards from the Middle East, Asian nations, Latin America, and Africa?




This coming from the "most advanced constitution"? In terms of hipocracy, definitely.


Compare the American Constitution to the Monarchy systems of Europe? Or the Soviet Union constitution which does not protect freedom of speech? Yes we are lucky to have the American constitution, or else you would be living under a very different nation right now. One that would never have allowed Abolitionists to have a voice.


As a minority I spit on your shitty constitution, all of which has been shown to be arbitrarily revoked by the president. What you really need is to scrap it with localized constitutions free of loopholes that will be viable for economic & social justice worldwide. Or better, no constitutions and global free associations between workers.

You need to learn about Western Civilization then. The Founding Fathers could've decided to become Kings of the new world and take over all of America and forever enslave African-Americans and all Americans forever. But instead they wrote the Consitution to protect individuals' rights to freedom of speech, freedom of protest, political parties, etc...

They stepped down from power, unlike any of these great Communist or Fascist leaders.

Slavery was always immoral however it was largely practiced all throughout history. Just how it was. The Romans took Gauls, Germanics, etc.. as slaves. Moors took Europeans as slaves. Yeah it was in the Constitution however you can't throw the whole thing away because of it.


However if he goes on to suggest that race is a motivator behind such things and steretypes an entire race as embracing a "thug lifestyle", he's a racist.

I believe in supreme cultures, but not racial supremacism. Just look at the Middle East as an example of this. They once had golden ages and now they're in dark age thanks to a Religious fundamenlist culture.

[Flash]

If we were talking about African politics maybe that point would count, but we're not, and it does'nt make slavery in America any less discusting.

The point is that around those times slavery was acceptable. The Constitution back then was still in its orginal state. It evolved to what it is now.




"Walk all over us"??? Are you freaking kidding me? The people that walk all over us are the ones that fire us for organizing, lay us off, keep us poor, work us to death for their own wealth, raise our rents, evict us, and so on, and those ones are a class not a race, and its a class that has black, white and hispanic people in it. The so called "thugs" your talking about may rob people but by no means are they walking all over us,

Walking all over us meaning giving illegal immigrants amnesty just to appease the Hispanic vote. I would say thats a pretty big deal.

[RGacky3]

Do you guys honesetly think they don't want the land back which they claim is rightfully theirs?


Never met one that brought it up.


Walking all over us meaning giving illegal immigrants amnesty just to appease the Hispanic vote. I would say thats a pretty big deal.

Well considering I don't really have any respect for fake borders that politicians put up and say "This is mine, you can't come here" I don't think anyone has any right to do that, considering that I don't think they are illigal immigrants, and I don't care what their reason is, (they are politicans EVERYthing they do is political), as long as it gets done, they are treated like humans, the way they should be. Being treated as a human does not mean walking all over us, the government is walking all over them by treating them as subhumans, they Contractors, and Bosses walk all over them by exploiting them.


The Founding Fathers could've decided to become Kings of the new world and take over all of America and forever enslave African-Americans and all Americans forever. But instead they wrote the Consitution to protect individuals' rights to freedom of speech, freedom of protest, political parties, etc...


What does that have naything to do with anything, it was a revolution, they did what they said they were going to do, thats not extraordinary, thats basic decency, that being said, they ALWAYS made sure the elite had the power, and the money.


A lot of people justify persecution of whites in Rhodesia and South Africa,

Persicution is never justified, even though the history of whites in Africa is a LOT different from the history of blacks in europe.


Thats true they've been persecuted a lot but when something like 80% of black criminals don't have a father or whatever you have to take that into consideration too.

THats not a race thing, I'd bet you a lot of money that a large percentage of criminals in general come from borken homes, black, white or whatever.


Yeah it was in the Constitution however you can't throw the whole thing away because of it.


Yes you can, thats no excuse.

[Flash]

Never met one that brought it up.


Apparently you've never heard of the large Southern USA Aztlan Movement.



Well considering I don't really have any respect for fake borders that politicians put up and say "This is mine, you can't come here" I don't think anyone has any right to do that, considering that I don't think they are illigal immigrants, and I don't care what their reason is, (they are politicans EVERYthing they do is political), as long as it gets done, they are treated like humans, the way they should be. Being treated as a human does not mean walking all over us, the government is walking all over them by treating them as subhumans, they Contractors, and Bosses walk all over them by exploiting them.


I would be fine with open borders as long as there are no government handouts. Otherwise you would bankrupt the nation, thats just how it is. Thats also the reason why Mexicans shoot their illegal immigrants that try crossing from the south.





What does that have naything to do with anything, it was a revolution, they did what they said they were going to do, thats not extraordinary, thats basic decency, that being said, they ALWAYS made sure the elite had the power, and the money.

Nope never. The government was so small durring the begining of America that it actually failed and had to be rewritten with a new constitution. The Founding Fathers always ensured that people had the most say. And now we only have something like 430 people in the House with a population of 300 million? We're not being represented like we use to.




Persicution is never justified, even though the history of whites in Africa is a LOT different from the history of blacks in europe.

Going into any land that is not yours will face you persecution. Whites in Africa isn't a good idea if the natives don't want it, imo. However it is equally hypocritical to tell Europeans, who have been around as seperate identities for thousands of years, to accept the cult of 'multiculturilism'.




THats not a race thing, I'd bet you a lot of money that a large percentage of criminals in general come from borken homes, black, white or whatever.

Thats why people need to embrace better cultures. Blaming a large percentage of crime due to economic reasons only is crazy.




Yes you can, thats no excuse.


Southerners didn't realize it at the time but slavery was keeping them stupid. They could've been industrialized like the North and broke away (of course without slavery there wouldn't be much reason to leave the Union) and acutally would've won the war.

Slavery was bad but was common practice. The Constitution ensures you the right to express your opinion. If it wasn't for the Constitution then there would be no such thing as Fascists or Communists in America. Anyone opposing government ideology would be killed. Similiar to the USSR.

[valientejv]

Obama is not the new MLK. He is a disguised MLK and when everything starts to settle after the election the truth will come out of what he truely stands for even if he dosen't get elected.

[hajduk]

but he got a sentence which says vote for a change is that the same what MLK says?change in the matter for same place for every human no matter which colour he is?