MartinGomez89
28th August 2008, 17:22
Hello there! New on this foum here.
Ok so what Im about to post was originally an e-mail I sent to a certain AFA-member that I found on Youtube. He had videos on his channel that contained violence against nazis and xenophobes which he portrayed in a glamorizing fashion. The e-mail I sent him was merely a mail where I wanted to get certain questions answered about the organization AFA, how they resonate about some aspects etc (as you will see) since I often been curious on things such as those.
This person by the way you can find on youtube, just search for his name: "Antifafront".
Unfortunately he told me he was in too much of a hurry to answer my questions, but suggested I would go to this forum to present them here. This mail I sent him as an AFA-member was intended for him so it may not make much sense to you. Unless you dont have the same beliefs and ideas as this particular individual you may not feel it is intended for you. I figured since he told me to go to this forum there would be at least some people how may share his political beliefs etc and may also be members of the antifascist organization Antifa (AFA, antifa.se) or other similair groups, even though I undertand no one where can represent his unique opinion especially if you dont even know who he is.
AFA as I see it is an organization thats very active in Sweden. They often try their best to prevent meetings between political parties they accuse of being racist or fascist.
So anyway here is the mail I sent to him:
"Hello there, I take it you are an active member in the so called antifascist organization ANTIFA. Antifa is an orginazation I never really actually understood for a couple of reasons, and by that I mean that I cant get a grip on how antifa members think and resonate. Perhaps you could at least do me the favour and give me your point of view.
The thing Im wondering the most is: Why cant antifa instead of physically fighting police on the street and various other "enemies" fight with words by debating with your opponents? Surely you must admit that intellectual debate with words is far more effective and will also give your organization a much better image among people who are unsure if you are legit or not. Its not like racism, nazism or fascism is going to dissappear because you beat a few individuals who share this belief to the ground or yell at them. Why dont you meet the people you oppose in intelligent debate? You will be able to give your arguments why you are against their ways and you will also make other people understand what Antifa stands for. You can only win on doing so, unless your opponent wins the debate that is... But should they be able to do that? I mean if you are sure your ideology is superior surely you should be able to present arguments to why that is. The thing is you are getting the people against you and more and more are actually starting to sympathize with the ones you oppose. Then you give them a "victim" image which they enjoy because then not only will people sympathize with them, people will listen to what they have to say.
Why are Antifa members so against open debate in a democratic, civilized and proper manner with the political parties who you accuse for being racists and xenophobes? I have only ONCE seen a debate with a representant for Antifa and this debate is over 10 years old. Not so long ago a political party here in Sweden called the Swedendemocrats (SD) had a public meeting to inform people of their politics, just like all political parties do. Several antifa members showed up to silence the meeting by making loud noises. SD then challenged the antifa members to a debate and they ALL rejected the offer. This really gives a bad image of the way Antifa do things. They are willing to show up at a public and totally legit meeting and try their best to spoil it by deliberately stomping on the freedom of speech and freedom of meeting laws, two of the very most important foundations in a democratic society, and when they are asked to present their arguements, they refuse. This is all other then democratic, and how is it different from fascism in the term of silecning critisism and rejecting people the right to exercise their freedom of speech? Surely you must agree this behaviour should be unacceptable. And whatever happened to being tolerant or show solidarity? Two words that members of AFA or similair organizations love to use (apart from fascist), but shouldnt tolerance also include being tolerant even towards people who may not believe the same way you do?
((What bothers me the most in this particular case is that SD (Swedendemocrats) are NOT a racist or xenophobic political party. Their opinions are NOT racist. For goodness sake they have a lot of politicians of foreign descent at high posts within their party. However they have some opinions then many politically correct people may find offensive and it also depends on how you interpretate things.))
This has always puzzled me. I went to Antifas website (antifa.se – the Swedish site for AFA) to find out more about what are their political standpoints and why do they act the way they do. Since this was their official site I was sure there was at least some intelligent member of the organization who had presented a serious answer. But no.. What I read was vague and diffuse and quite frankly made me angry. They said something like "there is no reason at all as we see it to be nice to any fascists". Whatever happened to the people saying "I dont like your opinion but I'll fight to the deaht for your right to say it". Where have they all gone? Also its not about being “nice”. Its about giving people the right to exercise their democratic rights, and its about following the law that’s clearly against physical abuse. This being said its clear antifa does not support some of the most basic and for me obvious foundations of a free democratic society.
What makes me more sad is that they are totally against intelligent debate with arguments that I was talking about earlier. On their site there was a ridiculous statement saying something like that "we cant face fascists with flowers and friendly dialogue" meaning it would justify physical violence and lynching of people who happen to believe in something you classify as racist or simply just wrong or politically incorrect. Whoever wrote that on Antifas site has no idea what he or she is talking about. The pen is more powerful then the sword!!! What kind of mentality is that? Defeat anyone who doesn’t think like us because that’s easier then inform them and try to “convert” them. I always wondered also why antifa members choose to cover their faces in such a cowardly fashion. Well on the site it said it was because so they would avoid being tracked down by the so called fascists and personally attacked or lynched. However this kind of lynching and intimidation is what the enemies of antifa are experiencing. Thats hypocrisy in its purest definition. If you are so sure your intentions and beliefs are noble and right then why not show your face, stand up for your beliefs and dont hide behind a mask like a coward. Or is it just that AFA-members are afraid to get caught by the police? If so then wouldnt it be a good idea to protest in legal ways without involving violence?
I live in Gothenburg, Sweden which was the target for violent organizations such as Antifa in 2001 when the riots began. I watched with sadness as protesters instead of trying to give away their poltical standpoint and protest in a legit way, vandalized much of the innercity and injured innocent people. Repairs estimated up to 10 million swedish crowns of taxpayer money just for the mainstreet alone. Have you any idea how much hatred something like that causes towards your group? Have you never wondered why "racist" political parties are getting more and more votes and more and more accepted? Its because they organize themselves. They fight with words, debating, and get more people on their side. They have since long abandoned their rockthrowing and hooligan ways, except for a small minority.
So as I see it, Antifa are a violent organization. Its also undemocratic and it actually helps the racists and nazis and in many aspects they are just comitting the crimes they accuse their enemies of comitting. If you have ANY intelligent arguments please reply them back to me. I hope this mail has awakened your brain to make you understand how someone like me see it. Please reply back even if you dont want to get into a debate.
Yours truely,
Martin Sonesson Gomez
(Here is where my mail is supposed to be but I cant post it for some reason since its considered to be a website URL, instead u can PM)
----------------------------------------------------
So if anyone else have a better answer then "Im busy, cant answer" please feel free to reply here to e-mail me, or even add me on MSN messenger.
/ Martin
Ok so what Im about to post was originally an e-mail I sent to a certain AFA-member that I found on Youtube. He had videos on his channel that contained violence against nazis and xenophobes which he portrayed in a glamorizing fashion. The e-mail I sent him was merely a mail where I wanted to get certain questions answered about the organization AFA, how they resonate about some aspects etc (as you will see) since I often been curious on things such as those.
This person by the way you can find on youtube, just search for his name: "Antifafront".
Unfortunately he told me he was in too much of a hurry to answer my questions, but suggested I would go to this forum to present them here. This mail I sent him as an AFA-member was intended for him so it may not make much sense to you. Unless you dont have the same beliefs and ideas as this particular individual you may not feel it is intended for you. I figured since he told me to go to this forum there would be at least some people how may share his political beliefs etc and may also be members of the antifascist organization Antifa (AFA, antifa.se) or other similair groups, even though I undertand no one where can represent his unique opinion especially if you dont even know who he is.
AFA as I see it is an organization thats very active in Sweden. They often try their best to prevent meetings between political parties they accuse of being racist or fascist.
So anyway here is the mail I sent to him:
"Hello there, I take it you are an active member in the so called antifascist organization ANTIFA. Antifa is an orginazation I never really actually understood for a couple of reasons, and by that I mean that I cant get a grip on how antifa members think and resonate. Perhaps you could at least do me the favour and give me your point of view.
The thing Im wondering the most is: Why cant antifa instead of physically fighting police on the street and various other "enemies" fight with words by debating with your opponents? Surely you must admit that intellectual debate with words is far more effective and will also give your organization a much better image among people who are unsure if you are legit or not. Its not like racism, nazism or fascism is going to dissappear because you beat a few individuals who share this belief to the ground or yell at them. Why dont you meet the people you oppose in intelligent debate? You will be able to give your arguments why you are against their ways and you will also make other people understand what Antifa stands for. You can only win on doing so, unless your opponent wins the debate that is... But should they be able to do that? I mean if you are sure your ideology is superior surely you should be able to present arguments to why that is. The thing is you are getting the people against you and more and more are actually starting to sympathize with the ones you oppose. Then you give them a "victim" image which they enjoy because then not only will people sympathize with them, people will listen to what they have to say.
Why are Antifa members so against open debate in a democratic, civilized and proper manner with the political parties who you accuse for being racists and xenophobes? I have only ONCE seen a debate with a representant for Antifa and this debate is over 10 years old. Not so long ago a political party here in Sweden called the Swedendemocrats (SD) had a public meeting to inform people of their politics, just like all political parties do. Several antifa members showed up to silence the meeting by making loud noises. SD then challenged the antifa members to a debate and they ALL rejected the offer. This really gives a bad image of the way Antifa do things. They are willing to show up at a public and totally legit meeting and try their best to spoil it by deliberately stomping on the freedom of speech and freedom of meeting laws, two of the very most important foundations in a democratic society, and when they are asked to present their arguements, they refuse. This is all other then democratic, and how is it different from fascism in the term of silecning critisism and rejecting people the right to exercise their freedom of speech? Surely you must agree this behaviour should be unacceptable. And whatever happened to being tolerant or show solidarity? Two words that members of AFA or similair organizations love to use (apart from fascist), but shouldnt tolerance also include being tolerant even towards people who may not believe the same way you do?
((What bothers me the most in this particular case is that SD (Swedendemocrats) are NOT a racist or xenophobic political party. Their opinions are NOT racist. For goodness sake they have a lot of politicians of foreign descent at high posts within their party. However they have some opinions then many politically correct people may find offensive and it also depends on how you interpretate things.))
This has always puzzled me. I went to Antifas website (antifa.se – the Swedish site for AFA) to find out more about what are their political standpoints and why do they act the way they do. Since this was their official site I was sure there was at least some intelligent member of the organization who had presented a serious answer. But no.. What I read was vague and diffuse and quite frankly made me angry. They said something like "there is no reason at all as we see it to be nice to any fascists". Whatever happened to the people saying "I dont like your opinion but I'll fight to the deaht for your right to say it". Where have they all gone? Also its not about being “nice”. Its about giving people the right to exercise their democratic rights, and its about following the law that’s clearly against physical abuse. This being said its clear antifa does not support some of the most basic and for me obvious foundations of a free democratic society.
What makes me more sad is that they are totally against intelligent debate with arguments that I was talking about earlier. On their site there was a ridiculous statement saying something like that "we cant face fascists with flowers and friendly dialogue" meaning it would justify physical violence and lynching of people who happen to believe in something you classify as racist or simply just wrong or politically incorrect. Whoever wrote that on Antifas site has no idea what he or she is talking about. The pen is more powerful then the sword!!! What kind of mentality is that? Defeat anyone who doesn’t think like us because that’s easier then inform them and try to “convert” them. I always wondered also why antifa members choose to cover their faces in such a cowardly fashion. Well on the site it said it was because so they would avoid being tracked down by the so called fascists and personally attacked or lynched. However this kind of lynching and intimidation is what the enemies of antifa are experiencing. Thats hypocrisy in its purest definition. If you are so sure your intentions and beliefs are noble and right then why not show your face, stand up for your beliefs and dont hide behind a mask like a coward. Or is it just that AFA-members are afraid to get caught by the police? If so then wouldnt it be a good idea to protest in legal ways without involving violence?
I live in Gothenburg, Sweden which was the target for violent organizations such as Antifa in 2001 when the riots began. I watched with sadness as protesters instead of trying to give away their poltical standpoint and protest in a legit way, vandalized much of the innercity and injured innocent people. Repairs estimated up to 10 million swedish crowns of taxpayer money just for the mainstreet alone. Have you any idea how much hatred something like that causes towards your group? Have you never wondered why "racist" political parties are getting more and more votes and more and more accepted? Its because they organize themselves. They fight with words, debating, and get more people on their side. They have since long abandoned their rockthrowing and hooligan ways, except for a small minority.
So as I see it, Antifa are a violent organization. Its also undemocratic and it actually helps the racists and nazis and in many aspects they are just comitting the crimes they accuse their enemies of comitting. If you have ANY intelligent arguments please reply them back to me. I hope this mail has awakened your brain to make you understand how someone like me see it. Please reply back even if you dont want to get into a debate.
Yours truely,
Martin Sonesson Gomez
(Here is where my mail is supposed to be but I cant post it for some reason since its considered to be a website URL, instead u can PM)
----------------------------------------------------
So if anyone else have a better answer then "Im busy, cant answer" please feel free to reply here to e-mail me, or even add me on MSN messenger.
/ Martin